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Blerg
Posts: 5120
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:07 am

vadodara wrote:
Blerg wrote:
From the Turkish Aviation thread, TK has been granted cargo flight rights for Ahmadabad. I guess the Pakistani issue isn't as big as some have presented it on here. I am sure Turks are working on more rights for passenger flights.


From what I understand, trade balance is v much in India’s favor.

Tourism and transit thru Erdogan’s pet project, the new airport, is where India can impose damage.

The travel advisory should serve its purpose.


India should be careful and it should not push too much otherwise that trade balance might not be as favorable in the future as it is now. And we all know that a country with widespread poverty like India needs as much foreign capital (from exports) as it can get.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:10 pm

yashk wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
IndiGo postpones launch of much-hyped flights to London Gatwick "after assessing the commercial viability of the operation"

https://www.cnbctv18.com/aviation/indig ... 583661.htm

Separately:
The air service agreement allows them to operate one more service to China and Indigo is looking to materialise that early in the new year.

It’s a cycle, the following news reports come up every few months:
1. Indigo/ Spice looking at Boeing/airbus to order x widebodies to fuel international expansion
2. Indigo/ Spice get slots at London and will start flights from the next season
3. Widebody economics not viable, will use NBs via some point on the way
4. One stop flights not viable, will re-evaluate


You are so true. In the last 24 hours there is another report in the Economic Times that states, " IndiGo plans to enter Europe via Tbilisi from early next year"
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 763959.cms
 
unnayan
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:57 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:38 pm

edealinfo wrote:
yashk wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
IndiGo postpones launch of much-hyped flights to London Gatwick "after assessing the commercial viability of the operation"

https://www.cnbctv18.com/aviation/indig ... 583661.htm

Separately:
The air service agreement allows them to operate one more service to China and Indigo is looking to materialise that early in the new year.

It’s a cycle, the following news reports come up every few months:
1. Indigo/ Spice looking at Boeing/airbus to order x widebodies to fuel international expansion
2. Indigo/ Spice get slots at London and will start flights from the next season
3. Widebody economics not viable, will use NBs via some point on the way
4. One stop flights not viable, will re-evaluate


You are so true. In the last 24 hours there is another report in the Economic Times that states, " IndiGo plans to enter Europe via Tbilisi from early next year"
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 763959.cms


Still not as preposterous as SG's plans for q scissor hub at RAK.

One 737 operator has gone down, it will break my heart to see the other one go down in spectacular fashion too.. Indian skies will be very boring with just A320's all around
 
vadodara
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:07 pm

So it would seem like, and rightly so, the govt.'s policy is to increase India O/D traffic towards Indian Metal.

Hampering that, among other factors, are/were 2 carriers beholden on govt. handouts or bailout's by banks. One is gone and hopefully the other's mess is resolved soon. Lot's of airports are already slot constrained.

In this scenario, the only way the rest of the Indian carriers can expand are:
a) secondary-secondary traffic
b) international traffic in the 5000nm radius

The likes of IndiGo and Spice Jet have already picked up the low hanging fruit. The logical next wave is going to be some experimentation to pick some traffic in S Europe, E Africa and so forth. Unless they experiment, very unlikely they will find what may work. The risk is minimal; they are still using the same aircraft type.
 
vadodara
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:09 pm

Blerg wrote:
India should be careful and it should not push too much otherwise that trade balance might not be as favorable in the future as it is now. And we all know that a country with widespread poverty like India needs as much foreign capital (from exports) as it can get.


Not trying to bring in politics in this thread but logically when Turkey is trying to be the best friend of a country that periodically keeps shutting its airspace down to Indian carriers, I am not sure what outcome were you expecting.
 
Blerg
Posts: 5120
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:59 pm

vadodara wrote:
Blerg wrote:
India should be careful and it should not push too much otherwise that trade balance might not be as favorable in the future as it is now. And we all know that a country with widespread poverty like India needs as much foreign capital (from exports) as it can get.


Not trying to bring in politics in this thread but logically when Turkey is trying to be the best friend of a country that periodically keeps shutting its airspace down to Indian carriers, I am not sure what outcome were you expecting.


Well India has a surplus in trade with Turkey, what do you think local businesses who export those goods to Turkey think about these moves? And anyway, the more these guys export, the more they pay in taxes. So India still benefits much more than Turkey. It should ignore some political comments coming from Ankara. It's not like Turkey can do much besides make these statements.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:30 pm

Blerg wrote:
vadodara wrote:
Blerg wrote:
India should be careful and it should not push too much otherwise that trade balance might not be as favorable in the future as it is now. And we all know that a country with widespread poverty like India needs as much foreign capital (from exports) as it can get.


Not trying to bring in politics in this thread but logically when Turkey is trying to be the best friend of a country that periodically keeps shutting its airspace down to Indian carriers, I am not sure what outcome were you expecting.


Well India has a surplus in trade with Turkey, what do you think local businesses who export those goods to Turkey think about these moves? And anyway, the more these guys export, the more they pay in taxes. So India still benefits much more than Turkey. It should ignore some political comments coming from Ankara. It's not like Turkey can do much besides make these statements.

I agree with Blerg. Indians take political speeches too seriously. I mean who in the world gives a hoot about what the politicians say at the UN? Those are just empty words that are never acted on. You do recall Mr T’s “fire and Fury” comment against Kim Jong Un and 9 months later, Mr. T turnaround and said he was “in love” with Kim.
By taking these speeches “literally”, the Indian Government is only shooting itself in its foot. Political grandstanding that would be forgotten with a week after the UN summit is giveN an extended period of publicity thanks to the Indian Government’s policy of “playing it up” instead of letting things naturally dye down
 
unnayan
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:57 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:29 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Blerg wrote:
vadodara wrote:

Not trying to bring in politics in this thread but logically when Turkey is trying to be the best friend of a country that periodically keeps shutting its airspace down to Indian carriers, I am not sure what outcome were you expecting.


Well India has a surplus in trade with Turkey, what do you think local businesses who export those goods to Turkey think about these moves? And anyway, the more these guys export, the more they pay in taxes. So India still benefits much more than Turkey. It should ignore some political comments coming from Ankara. It's not like Turkey can do much besides make these statements.

I agree with Blerg. Indians take political speeches too seriously. I mean who in the world gives a hoot about what the politicians say at the UN? Those are just empty words that are never acted on. You do recall Mr T’s “fire and Fury” comment against Kim Jong Un and 9 months later, Mr. T turnaround and said he was “in love” with Kim.
By taking these speeches “literally”, the Indian Government is only shooting itself in its foot. Political grandstanding that would be forgotten with a week after the UN summit is giveN an extended period of publicity thanks to the Indian Government’s policy of “playing it up” instead of letting things naturally dye down


Political posturing and muscle flexing are also part of international relations... India has to assert it's power.. what if this makes Turkey and Malaysia friendly... But hey.. these discussions need to go to non av section
 
blrsea
Posts: 1950
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:57 am

Its not just political comments, but they have also sided with pak in FATF and other forums, sometimes being the only ones to support pak and decrease pressure on it. Its not just due to speeches at UN. There were reports that GoI has gone slow on any commercial decisions regarding malaysia and turkey. Turkey's shipyard which was supposed to help build ships for Indian navy was cancelled too.
 
VTCIE
Posts: 417
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:33 am

History is in the making as JA827A is en route from Tokyo NRT to MAA as NH825. This ANA flight has great potential to improve both trade and tourism between India and Japan. This is the only major new South Indian long-haul route in the near future that is not flying to BLR (KL will start BLR next week).

JA825A would have been a more appropriate plane for the route. :)
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:38 pm

VTCIE wrote:
History is in the making as JA827A is en route from Tokyo NRT to MAA as NH825. This ANA flight has great potential to improve both trade and tourism between India and Japan. This is the only major new South Indian long-haul route in the near future that is not flying to BLR (KL will start BLR next week).

JA825A would have been a more appropriate plane for the route. :)


Let's assume that the Madrasis will be kind and support ANA on this route.

1) To which cities in the USA/Canada does the flight offer seamless connections in both directions (and by that I mean 4 hour or less layover in Japan)? (I am assuming the passengers to the USA and Canada would form the bulk of passengers; correct me if I am incorrect).

2) Does anyone have a sense of the loads?

3) Has United placed its code (share) on this flight?

4) Will ANA offer vegetarian options, and an Indian meal (non veg). I doubt Indian passengers will go for miso soup, sushi or sashimi.

Unlike the ANA flight to MAA, the KLM flight to BLR will do just fine as it is part of the VA/DL/KL/AF joint venture and passengers can seamlessly pick flights in the JV.
 
sabby
Posts: 478
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:40 pm

VTCIE wrote:

JA825A would have been a more appropriate plane for the route. :)


Why ? JA825A is used only in domestic flights.
 
CPS001
Posts: 282
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:18 pm

edealinfo wrote:
VTCIE wrote:
History is in the making as JA827A is en route from Tokyo NRT to MAA as NH825. This ANA flight has great potential to improve both trade and tourism between India and Japan. This is the only major new South Indian long-haul route in the near future that is not flying to BLR (KL will start BLR next week).

JA825A would have been a more appropriate plane for the route. :)


Let's assume that the Madrasis will be kind and support ANA on this route.

1) To which cities in the USA/Canada does the flight offer seamless connections in both directions (and by that I mean 4 hour or less layover in Japan)? (I am assuming the passengers to the USA and Canada would form the bulk of passengers; correct me if I am incorrect).


This flight, like ANA's BOM flight, is timed for O/D passengers (and passengers connecting to other Japanese destinations). It does not feed into the north America departure bank. There is a sizable Japanese community in Chennai which is being targeted.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:19 pm

IndiGo Q2 Earnings: Top 10 key takeaways

https://www.cnbctv18.com/aviation/indig ... 589341.htm

As a teaser, here are 2 of the 10:

On the international front, China is performing better than expected for IndiGo.

The airline’s old A320ceos will start retiring from 2021 and by 2022, the airline expects to retire most of these A320ceos.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:21 pm

CPS001 wrote:
This flight, like ANA's BOM flight, is timed for O/D passengers (and passengers connecting to other Japanese destinations). It does not feed into the north America departure bank. There is a sizable Japanese community in Chennai which is being targeted.


I think ANA is making a big mistake if they are only targeting O & D. How is it possible to fill a daily flight, year round based on that alone? Surely the Japanese community in Chennai is not that large!
 
CPS001
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:30 pm

edealinfo wrote:
CPS001 wrote:
This flight, like ANA's BOM flight, is timed for O/D passengers (and passengers connecting to other Japanese destinations). It does not feed into the north America departure bank. There is a sizable Japanese community in Chennai which is being targeted.


I think ANA is making a big mistake if they are only targeting O & D. How is it possible to fill a daily flight, year round based on that alone? Surely the Japanese community in Chennai is not that large!
It's only 3 times per week with a 169 seater aircraft. They have probably done their homework.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:53 pm

edealinfo wrote:
IndiGo Q2 Earnings: Top 10 key takeaways

https://www.cnbctv18.com/aviation/indig ... 589341.htm

As a teaser, here are 2 of the 10:

On the international front, China is performing better than expected for IndiGo.

The airline’s old A320ceos will start retiring from 2021 and by 2022, the airline expects to retire most of these A320ceos.

I noted the impact of high CEO maintenance costs until 2022. In a country with high parts (and fuel) taxes there will be an incentive to keep fleets young in India. I will laugh if any find their way to Delta.

I'm surprised the departures of CEOs are not already accelerating.

Lightsaber
 
unnayan
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:57 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:56 pm

[/quote]
I'm surprised the departures of CEOs are not already accelerating.

Lightsaber[/quote]
Probably because of below???

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theprint.i ... 11164/amp/
Last edited by unnayan on Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:58 pm

lightsaber wrote:
I will laugh if any find their way to Delta.
Lightsaber


Could you elaborate?
 
binayak
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:47 pm

Today onwards VS starts LHR BOM route third time.
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
Posts: 580
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:25 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:51 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Blerg wrote:
vadodara wrote:

Not trying to bring in politics in this thread but logically when Turkey is trying to be the best friend of a country that periodically keeps shutting its airspace down to Indian carriers, I am not sure what outcome were you expecting.


Well India has a surplus in trade with Turkey, what do you think local businesses who export those goods to Turkey think about these moves? And anyway, the more these guys export, the more they pay in taxes. So India still benefits much more than Turkey. It should ignore some political comments coming from Ankara. It's not like Turkey can do much besides make these statements.

I agree with Blerg. Indians take political speeches too seriously. I mean who in the world gives a hoot about what the politicians say at the UN? Those are just empty words that are never acted on. You do recall Mr T’s “fire and Fury” comment against Kim Jong Un and 9 months later, Mr. T turnaround and said he was “in love” with Kim.
By taking these speeches “literally”, the Indian Government is only shooting itself in its foot. Political grandstanding that would be forgotten with a week after the UN summit is giveN an extended period of publicity thanks to the Indian Government’s policy of “playing it up” instead of letting things naturally dye down


Part of this is down to a jingoistic Indian media that does not apply a critical lens or any balanced perspectives when it comes to these issues. Question should be would Indian consumers and Indian ex-pats who help the Indian economy benefit from increased TK exposure to the Indian market? The answer is almost certainly "yes."
 
vadodara
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:51 pm

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

Part of this is down to a jingoistic Indian media that does not apply a critical lens or any balanced perspectives when it comes to these issues. Question should be would Indian consumers and Indian ex-pats who help the Indian economy benefit from increased TK exposure to the Indian market? The answer is almost certainly "yes."


Well ME3 has only helped the flying US consumers yet their wings were clipped, pun intended.

Unclear if the jingoistic media played any role; all countries strive to protect their interests.
 
Blerg
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:12 pm

vadodara wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

Part of this is down to a jingoistic Indian media that does not apply a critical lens or any balanced perspectives when it comes to these issues. Question should be would Indian consumers and Indian ex-pats who help the Indian economy benefit from increased TK exposure to the Indian market? The answer is almost certainly "yes."


Well ME3 has only helped the flying US consumers yet their wings were clipped, pun intended.

Unclear if the jingoistic media played any role; all countries strive to protect their interests.


Protecting your interests is perfectly fine but who exactly were they protecting here? Air India?
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:20 pm

edealinfo wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
I will laugh if any find their way to Delta.
Lightsaber


Could you elaborate?


I think within 2 years CEO and NG resale values will drop to values DL will buy at.

Indigo will accelerate CEO replacement. DL has a history of buying opportunistically. At some point the used value reflects the difference in opperating costs. Since Indigo is an intense user in a high tax area, the value of old airframes is supressed. It would personally amuse me if DL bought the departing Indigo A320s. There are 129 in 6Es fleet... They have to find a home.

This is just the market maturation levels of two different countries where one pays a high premium at peak times, the other with saturated airports that fly round the clock. One with high costs for fuel and parts, one with low.

Yea... Economics amuses me when the real world results happen.

Lightsaber
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:06 pm

binayak wrote:
Today onwards VS starts LHR BOM route third time.


And this time they will succeed because:

a) They are backed by the VS/KL/DL/AF joint venture

b) This flight along with a BA flight are replacing 3 daily ex-Jet Airways flights on the same route

c) There is even good O&D on the London route

d) LHR is better than Stanstead or Gatwick for a variety of reasons

The curve ball would be if low cost carriers, with their grandiose plans (Indigo, SpiceJet) steal traffic but that I think is highly unlikely since the current traffic is almost certainly not low cost.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:41 pm

On October 8, 2019, there were reports on twitter and in the media that Vistara's first 787-9 arrived back in Everett after painting in Fort Worth. It is a frame, serial code ZB809, that was built Hainan Airlines but which couldn't take delivery so it was allocated to Air Vistara advancing its delivery schedule.

Typically how long does it take after return from the paint shop to actual delivery? It seems terribly inefficient for so much time to elapse from when the flight seems "ready" to actual delivery.

https://livefromalounge.boardingarea.co ... 87-status/

Speculation is that this flight will be used for BOM or DEL flights to London or Japan. If Air Vistara has only 1 of these aircraft to begin with, can it start dally flight services to either Japan or Londor.....or would daily service be pushing it?
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:49 pm

https://www.livemint.com/politics/polic ... 73907.html

Government to soon award new subsidised flight routes under UDAN

With UDAN in place, why can't the Government get rid of RGD?
 
VTORD
Posts: 776
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:12 am

edealinfo wrote:
Typically how long does it take after return from the paint shop to actual delivery? It seems terribly inefficient for so much time to elapse from when the flight seems "ready" to actual delivery.

I don't know the answer to this question but according to this 2012 article it is about a month for a T7:
https://blog.seattlepi.com/airlinerepor ... oeing-777/

The second one is also back at Paine after paint in Portland: ZB808
https://twitter.com/PlanesAtPaine/statu ... 4378202112
 
vadodara
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:28 am

Blerg wrote:
vadodara wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

Part of this is down to a jingoistic Indian media that does not apply a critical lens or any balanced perspectives when it comes to these issues. Question should be would Indian consumers and Indian ex-pats who help the Indian economy benefit from increased TK exposure to the Indian market? The answer is almost certainly "yes."


Well ME3 has only helped the flying US consumers yet their wings were clipped, pun intended.

Unclear if the jingoistic media played any role; all countries strive to protect their interests.


Protecting your interests is perfectly fine but who exactly were they protecting here? Air India?


Likes of IndiGo, Spice Jet, Vistara etc
 
Blerg
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:35 am

vadodara wrote:
Blerg wrote:
vadodara wrote:

Well ME3 has only helped the flying US consumers yet their wings were clipped, pun intended.

Unclear if the jingoistic media played any role; all countries strive to protect their interests.


Protecting your interests is perfectly fine but who exactly were they protecting here? Air India?


Likes of IndiGo, Spice Jet, Vistara etc


I am not talking about now or more recently when these airlines started expanding internationally. I am speaking about years back when international flights were handled by Jet Airways and Air India.

Furthermore, if the Indian government really cared about the comfort and well-being of its people then it wouldn't have allowed IndiGo to torture its passengers by forcing them to sit for 7 hours in an LCC configured Airbus all the way to Istanbul. ;)
 
unnayan
Posts: 225
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:47 am

Air India applies special livery on a B787 to commemorate 550th birth anniversary of GuruNanak Dev. Aircraft to launch ATQ to Stansted route

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.business ... 87047.html
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:19 pm

unnayan wrote:
Air India applies special livery on a B787 to commemorate 550th birth anniversary of GuruNanak Dev. Aircraft to launch ATQ to Stansted route

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.business ... 87047.html


1. Kudos to the Civili Aviation Minister for appeasing his constituency. having said that, he would have done far more good For his constituency in allowing a Turkish flight From IST to Amritsar than a mere symbolic gesture of Repainting an aircraft tail. But, he still started the Amritsar to UK flight so he did bring home the bacon.

2. Big Boo to the Air India CEO for staring the Amritsar to UK flight and for trying to use public assets, to the detriment of air India branding, to curry favor with the Minister.

Points 1 and 2 may seem contradictory but here is my logic. Politicians do what they have to do to bring home the goodies. That’s not a bureaucrat’s role who serves the country not a specific constituency.

What would really interest me is who came up with the Idea. Was it the Minister who then asked the Air India chief to follow through or did the chief feed the idea to the minister. I suspect the latter.
 
vadodara
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:06 pm

Blerg wrote:
vadodara wrote:
Blerg wrote:

Protecting your interests is perfectlyu fine but who exactly were they protecting here? Air India?


Likes of IndiGo, Spice Jet, Vistara etc


I am not talking about now or more recently when these airlines started expanding internationally. I am speaking about years back when international flights were handled by Jet Airways and Air India.

Furthermore, if the Indian government really cared about the comfort and well-being of its people then it wouldn't have allowed IndiGo to torture its passengers by forcing them to sit for 7 hours in an LCC configured Airbus all the way to Istanbul. ;)


Did u have a point?
 
Blerg
Posts: 5120
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:08 pm

vadodara wrote:
Blerg wrote:
vadodara wrote:

Likes of IndiGo, Spice Jet, Vistara etc


I am not talking about now or more recently when these airlines started expanding internationally. I am speaking about years back when international flights were handled by Jet Airways and Air India.

Furthermore, if the Indian government really cared about the comfort and well-being of its people then it wouldn't have allowed IndiGo to torture its passengers by forcing them to sit for 7 hours in an LCC configured Airbus all the way to Istanbul. ;)


Did u have a point?


I do but you quoted my comment with a completely out of place and pointless comment. I fear you are the one who doesn't have a point.
 
VTCIE
Posts: 417
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:41 am

unnayan wrote:
Air India applies special livery on a B787 to commemorate 550th birth anniversary of GuruNanak Dev. Aircraft to launch ATQ to Stansted route

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.business ... 87047.html

This aircraft is VT-ANQ. A similar thing was done recently with an A320neo, VT-CIO, to commemorate the Mahatma’s sesquicentenary (Gandhi’s 150th birth anniversary). His outline was painted on the tail of the aircraft.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1298
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:20 pm

edealinfo wrote:
unnayan wrote:
Air India applies special livery on a B787 to commemorate 550th birth anniversary of GuruNanak Dev. Aircraft to launch ATQ to Stansted route

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.business ... 87047.html


1. Kudos to the Civili Aviation Minister for appeasing his constituency. having said that, he would have done far more good For his constituency in allowing a Turkish flight From IST to Amritsar than a mere symbolic gesture of Repainting an aircraft tail. But, he still started the Amritsar to UK flight so he did bring home the bacon.

2. Big Boo to the Air India CEO for staring the Amritsar to UK flight and for trying to use public assets, to the detriment of air India branding, to curry favor with the Minister.

Points 1 and 2 may seem contradictory but here is my logic. Politicians do what they have to do to bring home the goodies. That’s not a bureaucrat’s role who serves the country not a specific constituency.

What would really interest me is who came up with the Idea. Was it the Minister who then asked the Air India chief to follow through or did the chief feed the idea to the minister. I suspect the latter.


I don't know if I agree and we follow Guru Nanak. The aviation minister is the minister for all of India not his constituents. This is why India cannot move forward. And I am sorry, nothing I have studied in the Grant would every imply Guru Nanak would even want this. It is plain and simple religious nationalism (or whatever it is called). Not to be celebrated IMHO. We have Gurdwaras for a reason.
 
unnayan
Posts: 225
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:55 pm

Massive order from Indigo..

Now confirmed by Airbus.... 300 A320neo series aircraft

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... craft.html

With this fleet they can even do DIB- GAU 10 times daily... I don't think there are even as many buses ...
 
jghealey
Posts: 243
Joined: Fri May 11, 2018 5:46 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:58 pm

650 aircraft on order now... that has to be unprecedented

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
 
ameya
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:46 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:29 pm

Air India's new privatisation challenge — competition from global counterparts looking to sell stake

Air India has run into a debt of Rs 50,000 crore by some estimates and the special purpose vehicle (SPV) named Air India Assets Holding Limited (AIAHL) has mopped up Rs 21,985 crore by way of bond issues since September 16 with the proceeds being utilised to repay the debt of the national carrier.

But there is confusion about how the entity will be sold. Will an airline be interested in all its units? Probably not. Will it be interested in parts? Most certainly yes.
Like Air India, many other government owned carriers are in the market for privatisation and they are around for a very long time without success.

fter a failed attempt before the May elections, the government seems determined to press ahead with the disinvestment of Air India. Trade unions, analysts, consultants and political watchers have all taken sides in the ‘should the government sell Air India’ or ‘should it retain Air India’ debate. But the real question is can the government sell the airline?

Air India has run into a debt of Rs 50,000 crore by some estimates and the special purpose vehicle (SPV) named Air India Assets Holding Limited (AIAHL) has mopped up Rs 21,985 crore by way of bond issues since September 16 with the proceeds being utilised to repay the debt of the national carrier.

There is confusion about how the entity will be sold. Air India comprises the flagship airline, low-cost subsidiary Air India Express, a regional carrier named Alliance Air that operates only ATR turboprop aircraft. Together, there are 120 aircraft. The other arms are ground handling, engineering and hotel along with stakes in the catering unit!
 
airboss787
Posts: 318
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:39 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:50 pm

Why did BA135/134 stop operating LHR-BOM-LHR? It was supposed to going daily next March and 777 starting end of November or beginning of December which still seems to be the case. But then, why isn't it operating right now? Last flight was October 25.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2783
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:19 am

vadodara wrote:

>>>Re: IndiGo: China key focus in its international expansion spree

Cities such as Kolkata, Gauhati etc are underserved so this should be a welcome addition for them.


The Chinese full service carriers will undercut Indigo by offering a wide body aircraft with more space to stretch out, a meal, and more leg room than low cost Indigo. Further Air China et all also offer onward connections to China and the rest of the world. The ONLY way that Indigo can compete is to operate on routes between India and China not operated by Chinese airlines.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2783
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:21 am

India's IndiGo Airlines eyes Tbilisi as next European route

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... pean-route

Indigo originally planned to operate to London Gatwick via Tbilisi. Are they gonna operate teh route without flying onward to London? That would be wierd as how much of a market could there be between India and Georgia alone?
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2783
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:27 am

Ethopian Airline commences 4X weekly to Bangalore. Eyes Chennai and Hyderabad for future flights.

Does anyone know how many weekly flights (under the bilaterals) Ethopia has with India? With ME3 and Turkish blocked from adding further flights to India, Ethopian has a golden opportunity to expand.

https://www.dailypioneer.com/2019/busin ... -more.html
 
vadodara
Posts: 1146
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:44 am

edealinfo wrote:
The Chinese full service carriers will undercut Indigo by offering a wide body aircraft with more space to stretch out, a meal, and more leg room than low cost Indigo. Further Air China et all also offer onward connections to China and the rest of the world. The ONLY way that Indigo can compete is to operate on routes between India and China not operated by Chinese airlines.


So statements like these have been made before most notably when LCC"s took to skies in Europe. After a decade or so, only BA, LH, AF-KLM still exist as hub-spoke carriers in Europe. It probably also has to do a great deal with restrictions imposed at LHR, FRA, MUC, AMS and so forth.

Except for HKG, there is really no slot controlled airport in China. Both Beijing and Shanghai have multiple airports and Chinese govt has been willing to increase capacity rather than 'protect' the incumbent airlines.

It is not very likely that there will be a dominant carrier like in US or Europe in China because of that reason.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2783
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:17 am

vadodara wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
The Chinese full service carriers will undercut Indigo by offering a wide body aircraft with more space to stretch out, a meal, and more leg room than low cost Indigo. Further Air China et all also offer onward connections to China and the rest of the world. The ONLY way that Indigo can compete is to operate on routes between India and China not operated by Chinese airlines.


So statements like these have been made before most notably when LCC"s took to skies in Europe. After a decade or so, only BA, LH, AF-KLM still exist as hub-spoke carriers in Europe. It probably also has to do a great deal with restrictions imposed at LHR, FRA, MUC, AMS and so forth.

Except for HKG, there is really no slot controlled airport in China. Both Beijing and Shanghai have multiple airports and Chinese govt has been willing to increase capacity rather than 'protect' the incumbent airlines.

It is not very likely that there will be a dominant carrier like in US or Europe in China because of that reason.


Your response still doesn't answer why anyone would prefer low cost, knee crunching 28" seat pitch Indigo airlines over a Chinese carrier offering a wide body aircraft with more space to stretch out, a meal, cutthroat fares, and more leg room than low cost Indigo.
 
unnayan
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:57 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:11 am

edealinfo wrote:
vadodara wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
The Chinese full service carriers will undercut Indigo by offering a wide body aircraft with more space to stretch out, a meal, and more leg room than low cost Indigo. Further Air China et all also offer onward connections to China and the rest of the world. The ONLY way that Indigo can compete is to operate on routes between India and China not operated by Chinese airlines.


So statements like these have been made before most notably when LCC"s took to skies in Europe. After a decade or so, only BA, LH, AF-KLM still exist as hub-spoke carriers in Europe. It probably also has to do a great deal with restrictions imposed at LHR, FRA, MUC, AMS and so forth.

Except for HKG, there is really no slot controlled airport in China. Both Beijing and Shanghai have multiple airports and Chinese govt has been willing to increase capacity rather than 'protect' the incumbent airlines.

It is not very likely that there will be a dominant carrier like in US or Europe in China because of that reason.


Your response still doesn't answer why anyone would prefer low cost, knee crunching 28" seat pitch Indigo airlines over a Chinese carrier offering a wide body aircraft with more space to stretch out, a meal, cutthroat fares, and more leg room than low cost Indigo.



Imagine - You are working in Chengdu and want your old parents to visit you.. who know workable English and nothing of Mandarin and Chinese, are strict vegetarians and travelling first time outside India.

What will you choose for them? Indigo or China Southern or China Eastern or Air China?
 
zionite
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:18 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:47 am

unnayan wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
vadodara wrote:

So statements like these have been made before most notably when LCC"s took to skies in Europe. After a decade or so, only BA, LH, AF-KLM still exist as hub-spoke carriers in Europe. It probably also has to do a great deal with restrictions imposed at LHR, FRA, MUC, AMS and so forth.

Except for HKG, there is really no slot controlled airport in China. Both Beijing and Shanghai have multiple airports and Chinese govt has been willing to increase capacity rather than 'protect' the incumbent airlines.

It is not very likely that there will be a dominant carrier like in US or Europe in China because of that reason.


Your response still doesn't answer why anyone would prefer low cost, knee crunching 28" seat pitch Indigo airlines over a Chinese carrier offering a wide body aircraft with more space to stretch out, a meal, cutthroat fares, and more leg room than low cost Indigo.



Imagine - You are working in Chengdu and want your old parents to visit you.. who know workable English and nothing of Mandarin and Chinese, are strict vegetarians and travelling first time outside India.

What will you choose for them? Indigo or China Southern or China Eastern or Air China?


Its hard to imagine old parents visiting China. According to Wikipedia, Indians living in Mainland China - less than 50,000 in 2015 or about 15,051 in 2010. I guess about 100,000 right now. At best, a Cessna should be enough for these "parents" category.

For O&D, its mainly business community and very few VFF or tourists - for them price is the main concern.
For transit, majority Indians still pay slightly more to transit in ME or Europe for flights to US - mainly due to food and language. People still avoid China, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Finland etc. even though their tickets are priced quite lower than ME3 or EU3.
 
unnayan
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:57 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:16 am

zionite wrote:
unnayan wrote:
edealinfo wrote:

Your response still doesn't answer why anyone would prefer low cost, knee crunching 28" seat pitch Indigo airlines over a Chinese carrier offering a wide body aircraft with more space to stretch out, a meal, cutthroat fares, and more leg room than low cost Indigo.



Imagine - You are working in Chengdu and want your old parents to visit you.. who know workable English and nothing of Mandarin and Chinese, are strict vegetarians and travelling first time outside India.

What will you choose for them? Indigo or China Southern or China Eastern or Air China?


Its hard to imagine old parents visiting China. According to Wikipedia, Indians living in Mainland China - less than 50,000 in 2015 or about 15,051 in 2010. I guess about 100,000 right now. At best, a Cessna should be enough for these "parents" category.

For O&D, its mainly business community and very few VFF or tourists - for them price is the main concern.
For transit, majority Indians still pay slightly more to transit in ME or Europe for flights to US - mainly due to food and language. People still avoid China, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Finland etc. even though their tickets are priced quite lower than ME3 or EU3.


It was just an example. Ok take it a different way. Given a choice, how many Indians would like to transit via China to a third party destination? If choices are Emirates vs Air China. Unless the prices are insanely different.

Point here is Chinese carriers don't have much leverage in India apart from certain O&D or cheap transfer traffic. No one will go out of their way to fly a Chinese carriers.
 
Blerg
Posts: 5120
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:40 am

I think 650 A320 series aircraft on order is a bit too much. It's not like IndiGo has the entire Indian market for themselves. Maybe they plan on building a hub network at some Indian airport?

Does anyone know how these deliveries are planned? How many new planes are they supposed to receive every year?
 
unnayan
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:57 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:47 am

Blerg wrote:
I think 650 A320 series aircraft on order is a bit too much. It's not like IndiGo has the entire Indian market for themselves. Maybe they plan on building a hub network at some Indian airport?

Does anyone know how these deliveries are planned? How many new planes are they supposed to receive every year?


Approximately one aircraft each week for 10-12 years. It also includes replacement for 129 CEO in the fleet. Given how quickly Indigo cycle old aircrafts, some of the early build Neo's would also be nearing replacement by the time last of deliveries are scheduled.

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