Welcome to Indian Aviation Thread - October 2019. Please continue to add your comments below

Link to last thread

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1430453&p=21697717#p21697717

From Airlineroute:

Vistara W19 Singapore aircraft changes

Vistara from late-November 2019 is adjusting operational aircraft for Singapore service, currently operated by Boeing 737-800 aircraft. Planned changes as follow.

Delhi – Singapore eff 30NOV19 A320 replaces 737-800, 1 daily
UK115 DEL2345 – 0810+1SIN 320 D
UK116 SIN0930 – 1315DEL 320 D

Mumbai – Singapore eff 30NOV19 A320 replaces 737-800, 1 daily
UK105 BOM2355 – 0810+1SIN 320 D
UK106 SIN1030 – 1415BOM 320 D

Also from Airlineroute:

Air India W19 Mumbai – London aircraft changes

Air India in the last few days filed operational aircraft changes for Mumbai – London Heathrow route, where Boeing 777-300ER aircraft will continue to operate on/after 27OCT19. The Star Alliance carrier previously filed Boeing 787-8 aircraft for this daily service in winter season.

AI131 BOM0700 – 1130LHR 77W D
AI130 LHR1330 – 0400+1BOM 77W D

According to Wikipedia, AI ATQ - STN begins Nov 7 but I can't find anything official other than one news report from simplyflying. STN is loaded as a destination in the AI booking engine but no flights come up for Nov 7 - 21.

Edit: Found this so I guess it's on but you would think they would load the flight in the booking engine 2 months in advance!!
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 302600.cms

If AI had slack in fleet, they should have atleast made Sydney daily, with all the Indian diaspora there

unnayan wrote:

If AI had slack in fleet, they should have atleast made Sydney daily, with all the Indian diaspora there

Or if they were better run imagine all the transfer passengers they could have carried between Sydney and Europe/Middle East. So many missed opportunities for them.

ATQ-STN is a purely political route that has been started just to satisfy Mantriji's vote bank.

From this month (October 2019), IndiGo’s Hello 6E and 6E World magazines will become full-fledged inflight magazines, a big change from the simple catalogues they were until now.

Press release: https://maxposuremedia.com/news/maxposure-to-publish-indigos-hello-6e-in-refresh-new-look/
First issue: https://issuu.com/maxposure/docs/hello_6e_oct_19low

Is Air India BOM-JFK still restarting 21 October? And is this a seasonal route like AC BOM-YYZ?

KLM in Allahabad(Prayagraj) and Ambala-Haryana.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1432559

If anyone is interested, KLM in it's first intercontinental flights went through Ambala, Allahbad & Calcutta.

These unique air links indicate India’s growing dominance in geopolitical matters

As the little known Arkia Airlines touched down in Kochi , there were celebrations all around. The airline also starts flights to Goa, which means India will be connected from four destinations in Israel. Arkia has all but 10 aircraft in its fleet and these flights were possible with the increasing range of aircraft for such thin routes.

Arkia is not alone and Kochi or Goa are not unique. The country has a whole bunch of interesting air links to international destinations – both by city pairs and airlines. For the seemingly difficult and challenging international operating environment which is governed by bilateral agreements and restrictions, here’s a look at some interesting links.

Exotic destinations

The southern city of Tiruchirapally has five flights a day to Kuala Lumpur – the capital of Malaysia, which is more than the flights to Kuala Lumpur from Delhi or Mumbai! Tamil Nadu has another interesting link – that to the island of Reunion, an overseas department and region of France in Indian Ocean. Air Austral – the airline of Reunion Island flies to Chennai. With less than 10 aircraft in its fleet, that’s the only connection to India. What could be the reason? Indians migrated during the days of French East India Company and Tamils are the largest group amongst the Indian community.

Chennai is also connected to Medan – the capital of North Sumatra region of Indonesia with a direct (same flight number and aircraft) flight by Batik Air via Kuala Lumpur. While AirAsia and Lion Air group launched flights from Indonesia to India via Kuala Lumpur in rapid succession to get over the limited bilateral rights between Malaysia and India, the Chennai-Kuala Namu (Medan) connection is the only one that has survived.

Is the fact that the Indian Government is proposing to sell 100% of Air India news? Is it significant news since the last I saw was a proposal to sell 76% and retain the rest?

Ameya, thanks for your analysis. It’s good to know of the journos and analysts on this thread.

Vistara 787 out of the paint shop...ex Hainan bird

https://www.bangaloreaviation.com/2019/ ... ected.html

unnayan wrote:

Vistara 787 out of the paint shop...ex Hainan bird

https://www.bangaloreaviation.com/2019/ ... ected.html

Pretty Nice. Wish the flag was at front. There's no other Indian identification on the aircraft.

unnayan wrote:

Vistara 787 out of the paint shop...ex Hainan bird

https://www.bangaloreaviation.com/2019/ ... ected.html

Really like it. Looks classy. Let’s hope their soft product lives up to expectations. I think they should go for a nice J but a version that packs them in. India isn’t ready for an airline that can just waste space. I also hope their Prem Econ is only three rows but industry leading (given the length of many indian log haul flights). As far as coach, some extra legroom rows re also needed.

unnayan wrote:

Vistara 787 out of the paint shop...ex Hainan bird

https://www.bangaloreaviation.com/2019/ ... ected.html

Just for the record, based on the link, it isnt an "ex-Hainan" bird per se, but a Not Taken Up bird by Hainan for delivery.
Its a great moment. I really hope Indian carriers get out of this 'narrow body' mindset and aim for bigger, better.

acechip wrote:

unnayan wrote:

Vistara 787 out of the paint shop...ex Hainan bird

https://www.bangaloreaviation.com/2019/ ... ected.html

Just for the record, based on the link, it isnt an "ex-Hainan" bird per se, but a Not Taken Up bird by Hainan for delivery.
Its a great moment. I really hope Indian carriers get out of this 'narrow body' mindset and aim for bigger, better.

Thanks for the correction.. yes you are right. It's a NTU

Do we know what routes Vistara will use the 787 on?

Looks really nice I must say.

AI now starting Amritsar to Patna flights...

At this speed ATQ Will be an AI hub

GoAir to commence from 18th Oct :
Bengaluru- Singapore x4 weekly
Kolkata - Singapore x3 weekly

Blerg wrote:

Do we know what routes Vistara will use the 787 on?

Looks really nice I must say.

Vistara was supposed to get its first aircraft in Feb 2020. I guess this means it will get its first 787 a lot sooner. The first flight is either Mumbai or Delhi to London ( have they secured the slots)???

There was an announcement by Pune’s airport director that Vistara would start Pune to Singapore in Oct by taking over Jet slots. However this is subject to all kinds of approvals on the Indian side including whether Vistara can actually obtain the slot. These ex-Jet slots were allocated to Air India which said it would NOT use them.

Separately, on the forums, and a news report indicated that Indigo would start frights from Delhi to London Stanstead via a 1 stop at Tiblisi, Georgia. is this a rumor or has it been confirmed?

edealinfo wrote:

Blerg wrote:

Do we know what routes Vistara will use the 787 on?

Looks really nice I must say.

Vistara was supposed to get its first aircraft in Feb 2020. I guess this means it will get its first 787 a lot sooner. The first flight is either Mumbai or Delhi to London ( have they secured the slots)???

Maybe they can get a LHR slot from Singapore? With both Vistara and IndiGo adding more international flights west of India, I wonder what it will mean for the Persian Gulf carriers who were milking the market for a long time.

I doubt SQ will relinquish any LHR slot to Vistara.. they are too precious for their own use.. but yes could help them purchase one...

It will be interesting to see the first 787 routes

May I kindly remind you to post links to your sources when posting information like the start of new routes etc.? If not these posts will be removed for violating forum rules. Thanks.

edealinfo wrote:

Blerg wrote:

Do we know what routes Vistara will use the 787 on?

Looks really nice I must say.

Vistara was supposed to get its first aircraft in Feb 2020. I guess this means it will get its first 787 a lot sooner. The first flight is either Mumbai or Delhi to London ( have they secured the slots)???

Vistara earlier hinted the first flight to be Tokyo with JAL partnership.

My thoughts on future routes :
If Vistara tries to launch EWR - BOM/ DEL with UA partnership with those 787-9s , I'm pretty sure that will mark the end of AI operating that route. Even the most loyal AI pax will shift happily to Vistara. After all let the so called national carrier get a taste of international competition and let them realize that the Gujarati crowd of NJ won't fly them forever.

binayak wrote:

My thoughts on future routes :
If Vistara tries to launch EWR - BOM / DEL with UA partnership with those 787-9s , I'm pretty sure that will mark the end of AI operating that route. Even the most loyal AI pax will shift happily to Vistara. After all let the so called national carrier get a taste of international competition and let them realize that the Gujarati crowd of NJ won't fly them forever.

UA is commanding a good premium on these flights (even after DL launches, UA is consistently higher on XXX-EWR-BOM v XXX-JFK-BOM on DL). What they are lacking is a good connecting partner on the India end. UK should fill that void rather than competing with AI on bottom of the barrel fares out of the gate. Just my

Looks like Vistara will stick with 9 B737-800NGs from Jet Airways of now.
The 10th one, ex-JFC, has been delivered to SpiceJet as VT-SYV, with a full repaint barring the underbelly.

binayak wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

Blerg wrote:

Do we know what routes Vistara will use the 787 on?

Looks really nice I must say.

Vistara was supposed to get its first aircraft in Feb 2020. I guess this means it will get its first 787 a lot sooner. The first flight is either Mumbai or Delhi to London ( have they secured the slots)???

Vistara earlier hinted the first flight to be Tokyo with JAL partnership.

My thoughts on future routes :
If Vistara tries to launch EWR - BOM/ DEL with UA partnership with those 787-9s , I'm pretty sure that will mark the end of AI operating that route. Even the most loyal AI pax will shift happily to Vistara. After all let the so called national carrier get a taste of international competition and let them realize that the Gujarati crowd of NJ won't fly them forever.

Hmmm! If Vistara is launching in partnership with JAL then it is likely OneWorld.

Vistara should launch NYC (or even Boston if they don't want the competition to begin with)! Air India will be in serious trouble, their product is very blah and yet they charge a premium cos it is non-stop. They shouldn't go to LHR, paying a huge premium for a slot especially with Brexit looming.

SQ22 wrote:

May I kindly remind you to post links to your sources when posting information like the start of new routes etc.? If not these posts will be removed for violating forum rules. Thanks.

Here is the link (Pune to Singapore)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/indianexpr ... 3814/lite/

President Xi Jinping arrived in Chennai on B-2479 (Air China B747-8) however unable to track it on flightradar24.com. Any idea if such Presidential flights are not trackable on Flight radar? Just curious....

unnayan wrote:

President Xi Jinping arrived in Chennai on B-2479 (Air China B747-8) however unable to track it on flightradar24.com. Any idea if such Presidential flights are not trackable on Flight radar? Just curious....

They probably requested Flightradar24 to hide the flight.

Anyway, 2 more 747s went with Xi's entourage and supplies and those were tracked normally.

edealinfo wrote:

SQ22 wrote:

May I kindly remind you to post links to your sources when posting information like the start of new routes etc.? If not these posts will be removed for violating forum rules. Thanks.

Here is the link (Pune to Singapore)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/indianexpr ... 3814/lite/

Thanks.

Many celebrities' private jets aren't trackable on FR24 despite being equipped with ADS-B.

UK needs to launch flights to Africa, like BOM-JNB/DUR (789) or BOM-NBO. 321N can make NBO-BOM nonstop right?

Honestly UK needs to hub long haul in BOM because with the loss of 9W BOM is not the hub of any true international carrier (DEL has Air India). Flights from BOM-LHR/CDG would be good additions imo.

voxkel wrote:

UK needs to launch flights to Africa, like BOM-JNB/DUR (789) or BOM-NBO. 321N can make NBO-BOM nonstop right?

Honestly UK needs to hub long haul in BOM because with the loss of 9W BOM is not the hub of any true international carrier (DEL has Air India). Flights from BOM-LHR/CDG would be good additions imo.

But these will be such a waste of 787-9 capabilities....not saying they should not..but...they don't need such a capable frame for those routes

unnayan wrote:

voxkel wrote:

UK needs to launch flights to Africa, like BOM-JNB/DUR (789) or BOM-NBO. 321N can make NBO-BOM nonstop right?

Honestly UK needs to hub long haul in BOM because with the loss of 9W BOM is not the hub of any true international carrier (DEL has Air India). Flights from BOM-LHR/CDG would be good additions imo.

But these will be such a waste of 787-9 capabilities....not saying they should not..but...they don't need such a capable frame for those routes

So, is it more capable for flying to Europe/Japan or the US/Canada?obviously, it cannot be both since the distances greatly vary,

edealinfo wrote:

unnayan wrote:

voxkel wrote:

UK needs to launch flights to Africa, like BOM-JNB/DUR (789) or BOM-NBO. 321N can make NBO-BOM nonstop right?

Honestly UK needs to hub long haul in BOM because with the loss of 9W BOM is not the hub of any true international carrier (DEL has Air India). Flights from BOM-LHR/CDG would be good additions imo.

But these will be such a waste of 787-9 capabilities....not saying they should not..but...they don't need such a capable frame for those routes

So, is it more capable for flying to Europe/Japan or the US/Canada?obviously, it cannot be both since the distances greatly vary,

For comparison.. Qantas flies them on Per to LHR.. so obviously these are best for ULR routes to US and Canada..India to LHR can be done by others too

More bad news for AI.. more than hundred A320 first officers resign...

https://www.news18.com/amp/news/india/o ... 41623.html

unnayan wrote:

More bad news for AI.. more than hundred A320 first officers resign...

https://www.news18.com/amp/news/india/o ... 41623.html

So, who hired them?

unnayan wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

unnayan wrote:

But these will be such a waste of 787-9 capabilities....not saying they should not..but...they don't need such a capable frame for those routes

So, is it more capable for flying to Europe/Japan or the US/Canada?obviously, it cannot be both since the distances greatly vary,

For comparison.. Qantas flies them on Per to LHR.. so obviously these are best for ULR routes to US and Canada..India to LHR can be done by others too

So, are you saying that the 787-900 is efficient for ultra long routes such as the US and therefore, inefficient for medium haul routes such as Japan and Europe?

Tata's are back in the game for Air India:

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ec ... 653782.ece

voxkel wrote:

UK needs to launch flights to Africa, like BOM-JNB/DUR (789) or BOM-NBO. 321N can make NBO-BOM nonstop right?

Honestly UK needs to hub long haul in BOM because with the loss of 9W BOM is not the hub of any true international carrier (DEL has Air India). Flights from BOM-LHR/CDG would be good additions imo.

If Jet was not successful why would Vistara's outcome be any different?

Synergy seeks time until Nov 30 to bid for Jet. The "never ending story" for Jet lives up to its name.

https://www.financialexpress.com/indust ... s/1731303/

Air India's subsidiary "Alliance Air" gets rights to fly international:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 534329.cms

Turkey demand's more bilateral rights to India.
Given that they raised the Kash issue at the United Nations in September there is a zero chance that they would be approved.

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/need-mo ... es-2114276

However, if they start and Amritsar to Istanbul route maybe they will have a moonshot chance. After all, Air India is starting an Amritsar to London Stanstead route which seemed unbelievable.

Amristar as a source point for travel can help the unrealistic become realistic.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/ne ... 47586.html

124-year-old Indian passenger stuns Abu Dhabi officials

Hmmmm, I doubt he is 124 years!

https://gulfnews.com/uae/124-year-old-i ... 0425132682

Excellent info from interview with Vistara's CEO.

Key takeaways:

1) To take on 10 new aircraft by December 2019.

2) Inference: First 787 flight from Mumbai or Delhi to London.

3) Inference: After London, the next 787 route will be to Japan.

3) The third phase of the 787 route strategy would involve US and Australia.

4) The free visa on arrival currently being provided by Thailand, and just 8 business seats on the aircraft from Delhi to Bangkok is turning an otherwise fiercely competitive route into a sustainable route.

https://www.outlookindia.com/outlooktra ... eo-vistara

edealinfo wrote:

Turkey demand's more bilateral rights to India.
Given that they raised the Kash issue at the United Nations in September there is a zero chance that they would be approved.

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/need-mo ... es-2114276

However, if they start and Amritsar to Istanbul route maybe they will have a moonshot chance. After all, Air India is starting an Amritsar to London Stanstead route which seemed unbelievable.

Amristar as a source point for travel can help the unrealistic become realistic.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/ne ... 47586.html

Turkey demanding anything is a joke.