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AngelsDecay
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Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:12 pm

"Well be thy one,
and wisdom too.
And grew, and joyed in my growth.
From a word to a word, I was lead to a Wyrd.
From a deed, to another deed."
 
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FLALEFTY
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:19 pm

Looks like they tried to land on that narrow roadway, had one of the main landing gears hit a culvert and collapse. I guess there are some bruised-up gangsters with "the Smuggler's Blues", hiding out nearby?
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:53 am

So that is where all of the timed out jets are going.... No need for those pesky and expensive overhauls or inspections in this type of work, in that part of the world.
 
Magnolia
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:32 am

I like to browse the aviation-safety database every once in a while and I swear at least three times a month there will be a "Unreg." crash in some Central American country. Given the circumstances, I get a bit of a chuckle out of it. Shame the birds are being put to such use though.
 
crownvic
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:52 am

If you wind the clock back to 70s and 80s, this type of activity used to be carried out by "timed out" Convair twins, Douglas piston transports and Constellations. There are tons of corporate jets that are falling into a category similar these old airliners as they reach the end of their lives due to noise regulations, the need to comply with new ADS-B Out rules and the general cost to overhaul these aircraft.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:36 am

crownvic wrote:
If you wind the clock back to 70s and 80s, this type of activity used to be carried out by "timed out" Convair twins, Douglas piston transports and Constellations. There are tons of corporate jets that are falling into a category similar these old airliners as they reach the end of their lives due to noise regulations, the need to comply with new ADS-B Out rules and the general cost to overhaul these aircraft.


Wow. Pardon my ignorance, but how does 'this thing' work...I mean, how can you buy and import a jet and NOT register it?..and then FLY it...? without filing a flight plane.... where do you keep it? how do you buy avgas? where do you fly it from??....
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:40 am

It "works" by bribes. At least the "routes" are on the deck to avoid en route surveillance, thereby lessening the chance of mid-air collisions with commercial, GA, and military aircraft.
 
DominoxX
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:58 am

oldannyboy wrote:
crownvic wrote:
If you wind the clock back to 70s and 80s, this type of activity used to be carried out by "timed out" Convair twins, Douglas piston transports and Constellations. There are tons of corporate jets that are falling into a category similar these old airliners as they reach the end of their lives due to noise regulations, the need to comply with new ADS-B Out rules and the general cost to overhaul these aircraft.


Wow. Pardon my ignorance, but how does 'this thing' work...I mean, how can you buy and import a jet and NOT register it?..and then FLY it...? without filing a flight plane.... where do you keep it? how do you buy avgas? where do you fly it from??....


I don't know how it all works, but they start by landing and storing such aircraft in DIY, clandestine aerodromes (and disguising them too)
Thank u, next.
 
Someone83
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:17 am

How do you explain that to "el Patron"?
 
bennett123
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:28 am

Well they still have the cargo
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:07 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
It "works" by bribes. At least the "routes" are on the deck to avoid en route surveillance, thereby lessening the chance of mid-air collisions with commercial, GA, and military aircraft.

The cartels operate on a “Take the Bribe Money or Die” basis.
 
BravoOne
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:18 pm

As strange as this seems the CIA operated a number of "off the books" Gulfstream and BBJs in the last 20 years and probably doing right now as well. The good news is that they are not using dirt roads for landing strips.
 
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GCT64
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:38 pm

The Gulfstream was registered XB-PVO, you can see "PVO" on the engine covers. This was an ex-Time Warner corporate jet.
Flown in: A20N,A21N,A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A359,A388,BA11,BU31,(..56 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
Concierge
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:00 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
It "works" by bribes. At least the "routes" are on the deck to avoid en route surveillance, thereby lessening the chance of mid-air collisions with commercial, GA, and military aircraft.

The cartels operate on a “Take the Bribe Money or Die” basis.


'Plata o plomo' Silver or lead.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:04 pm

GCT64 wrote:
The Gulfstream was registered XB-PVO, you can see "PVO" on the engine covers. This was an ex-Time Warner corporate jet.


The presence of registration marks says little or nothing about its actual registration.

GF
 
n92r03
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:03 pm

Back in the mid 90's I was driving from San Diego to Ensenada and I remember seeing a G-II (or similar) parked at the end of what looked like a makeshift runway, errrr, road. Just hiding in plain sight. It was not derelict and it was not there 3 days later when I was driving back. Interesting...
 
crownvic
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:17 am

I think we are going to see more and more of this, with corporate jets. I was recently in South Africa and some other African nations and was surprised to see so many of these "timed out" birds parked everywhere. Like what you see in Toluca, Mexico, there are a large number of of GII, GIII, Hawker, Lear and Falcon types that have been sold off for reasons mentioned previously.
 
cedarjet
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:07 am

The drug trade have used airliners, including a few Caravelles. One Caravelle was actually buried underground to evade detection.
Wow. Pardon my ignorance, but how does 'this thing' work...I mean, how can you buy and import a jet and NOT register it?..and then FLY it...? without filing a flight plane.... where do you keep it? how do you buy avgas? where do you fly it from??....

Jets don’t run on avgas
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Max Q
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:37 am

cedarjet wrote:
The drug trade have used airliners, including a few Caravelles. One Caravelle was actually buried underground to evade detection.
Wow. Pardon my ignorance, but how does 'this thing' work...I mean, how can you buy and import a jet and NOT register it?..and then FLY it...? without filing a flight plane.... where do you keep it? how do you buy avgas? where do you fly it from??....

Jets don’t run on avgas



They can in a pinch


The B36 did
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
RolandRat
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Sat Oct 05, 2019 10:09 am

Probably c/n 199 ex N511TL judging by the color scheme, this was cancelled to Mexico Nov-2017, with no mexican marks traced
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:12 pm

cedarjet wrote:
The drug trade have used airliners, including a few Caravelles. One Caravelle was actually buried underground to evade detection.
Wow. Pardon my ignorance, but how does 'this thing' work...I mean, how can you buy and import a jet and NOT register it?..and then FLY it...? without filing a flight plane.... where do you keep it? how do you buy avgas? where do you fly it from??....

Jets don’t run on avgas


Just about every Jet I’ve flown had an AFM-approved procedure for avgas as an alternate fuel with limitations. If you only intend to use the plane once, it probably doesn’t matter.


GF
 
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SuseJ772
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:48 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
cedarjet wrote:
The drug trade have used airliners, including a few Caravelles. One Caravelle was actually buried underground to evade detection.
Wow. Pardon my ignorance, but how does 'this thing' work...I mean, how can you buy and import a jet and NOT register it?..and then FLY it...? without filing a flight plane.... where do you keep it? how do you buy avgas? where do you fly it from??....

Jets don’t run on avgas


Just about every Jet I’ve flown had an AFM-approved procedure for avgas as an alternate fuel with limitations. If you only intend to use the plane once, it probably doesn’t matter.


GF


Fascinating. I never knew that.

What are the procedures like?
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
mxaxai
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:07 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
Wow. Pardon my ignorance, but how does 'this thing' work...I mean, how can you buy and import a jet and NOT register it?..and then FLY it...? without filing a flight plane.... where do you keep it? how do you buy avgas? where do you fly it from??....

Colombia shot down a "rogue" Hawker 800 in 2015. https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... hawker-800
Guess it's not without risk.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:28 pm

mxaxai wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
Wow. Pardon my ignorance, but how does 'this thing' work...I mean, how can you buy and import a jet and NOT register it?..and then FLY it...? without filing a flight plane.... where do you keep it? how do you buy avgas? where do you fly it from??....

Colombia shot down a "rogue" Hawker 800 in 2015. https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... hawker-800
Guess it's not without risk.


The Hawkers have been the plane of choice and I think Venezuela shot one down a few years ago too. I’ve also seen crashed Sabreliners and lots of light twins recently, from Navajo up to the Cessna turboprops.

Can you get away with diesel fuel in lieu of Jet A? Especially at low levels in the tropics.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:29 pm

SuseJ772 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
cedarjet wrote:
The drug trade have used airliners, including a few Caravelles. One Caravelle was actually buried underground to evade detection.

Jets don’t run on avgas


Just about every Jet I’ve flown had an AFM-approved procedure for avgas as an alternate fuel with limitations. If you only intend to use the plane once, it probably doesn’t matter.

Remember, avgas is hard to find, it’s a very unlikely case where avgas would be available but no jet fuel. Diesel would likely work for awhile, but it’s heavier than Jet A, not sure how the fuel delivery system would like it.


GF


Fascinating. I never knew that.

What are the procedures like?


Usually time-limited, maybe 10 hours plus an altitude restriction due to vapor pressure. The idea is move the plane to jet fuel.
Last edited by GalaxyFlyer on Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:31 pm

Considering the worth of it's alleged cargo the price of a plane like this with this age is just small change. It could easily have carried more then a billion dollar in streetvalue.

It would an interesting casestudy about how to prevent planes end up in the wrong hands.

The question is how to keep this kind of planes out of the wrong hands.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:33 pm

Remember how a few years ago there was that 727F that crashed in North Africa (Mali I think) after a drug shuttle from Central America?

oldannyboy wrote:
Wow. Pardon my ignorance, but how does 'this thing' work...I mean, how can you buy and import a jet and NOT register it?..and then FLY it...? without filing a flight plane.... where do you keep it? how do you buy avgas? where do you fly it from??....


Bribes + a few shell companies.
First to fly the 787-9
 
cschleic
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:41 pm

Spacepope wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
Wow. Pardon my ignorance, but how does 'this thing' work...I mean, how can you buy and import a jet and NOT register it?..and then FLY it...? without filing a flight plane.... where do you keep it? how do you buy avgas? where do you fly it from??....

Colombia shot down a "rogue" Hawker 800 in 2015. https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... hawker-800
Guess it's not without risk.


The Hawkers have been the plane of choice and I think Venezuela shot one down a few years ago too. I’ve also seen crashed Sabreliners and lots of light twins recently, from Navajo up to the Cessna turboprops.

Can you get away with diesel fuel in lieu of Jet A? Especially at low levels in the tropics.


Why Hawkers? Availability and price? Payload or, hmmm, hot and high performance capabilities?
 
BravoOne
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:51 pm

cschleic wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
Colombia shot down a "rogue" Hawker 800 in 2015. https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... hawker-800
Guess it's not without risk.


The Hawkers have been the plane of choice and I think Venezuela shot one down a few years ago too. I’ve also seen crashed Sabreliners and lots of light twins recently, from Navajo up to the Cessna turboprops.

Can you get away with diesel fuel in lieu of Jet A? Especially at low levels in the tropics.


Why Hawkers? Availability and price? Payload or, hmmm, hot and high performance capabilities?


Don't know, but Hawker 800's are not that cheap compared to some others that might work just as well. Availability when required is probably the answer.
 
beechnut
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:39 pm

Spacepope wrote:
mxaxai wrote:

Can you get away with diesel fuel in lieu of Jet A? Especially at low levels in the tropics.


Most likely. Jet and diesel fuel comes from the same cut at the refinery; the additive packages and blends are different. Often, some of the diesel-engine ground equipment at airports runs off jet fuel residuals. Airport employees with diesel VWs and pick-ups have been known to skim some off for their personal vehicles ;)

It's more of a problem running diesel in cars, as the lubricity is not as good for jet fuel. VW high-pressure fuel pumps on later TDIs are highly sensitive to fuel lubricity, as the fuel itself lubricates the pump. Older TDIs though are less sensitive.
 
MainelyRick
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes

Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:56 pm

Long ago and far, far away Aero/Rockwell/North American Rockwell twin Commanders were popular for drug runs. Could be substantially overloaded. We sold a few of these drug runners which went straight from the factory or distributor to make a non-registered trip back to northern Mexico or SW US low and fast.
Sabreliners also did some of these unregistered runs but not many we knew of at the factory. That may be different now.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:58 pm

BravoOne wrote:
cschleic wrote:
Spacepope wrote:

The Hawkers have been the plane of choice and I think Venezuela shot one down a few years ago too. I’ve also seen crashed Sabreliners and lots of light twins recently, from Navajo up to the Cessna turboprops.

Can you get away with diesel fuel in lieu of Jet A? Especially at low levels in the tropics.


Why Hawkers? Availability and price? Payload or, hmmm, hot and high performance capabilities?


Don't know, but Hawker 800's are not that cheap compared to some others that might work just as well. Availability when required is probably the answer.


When they're stolen, who cares about the price?
The last of the famous international playboys
 
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Springbok743
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:35 pm

BravoOne wrote:

Don't know, but Hawker 800's are not that cheap compared to some others that might work just as well. Availability when required is probably the answer.


They're quite rugged for the segment and have pretty good payload capability. And obviously given the relatively small size for the capability (the cargo carried is very dense, so you're limited by load, not volume), pretty good for when needing to hide.
I've also heard they're nice to fly, though that statement's truth I would doubt, but easy to fly is no doubt useful when landing at the strips they go to.
 
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GCT64
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:52 pm

RolandRat wrote:
Probably c/n 199 ex N511TL judging by the color scheme, this was cancelled to Mexico Nov-2017, with no mexican marks traced


As I mentioned above, the aircraft was most recently registered as XB-PVO (it was, as you say, ex-N511TL).
Flown in: A20N,A21N,A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A359,A388,BA11,BU31,(..56 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
RolandRat
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:38 am

GCT64 wrote:
RolandRat wrote:
Probably c/n 199 ex N511TL judging by the color scheme, this was cancelled to Mexico Nov-2017, with no mexican marks traced


As I mentioned above, the aircraft was most recently registered as XB-PVO (it was, as you say, ex-N511TL).



I cannot find any record of XB-PVO being registered, do you have a source for this ?

I think it was mentioned upthread that the "PVO" on the engine cowling should be taken with a large degree of scepticism

Regards
 
jetwet1
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:27 pm

n92r03 wrote:
Back in the mid 90's I was driving from San Diego to Ensenada and I remember seeing a G-II (or similar) parked at the end of what looked like a makeshift runway, errrr, road. Just hiding in plain sight. It was not derelict and it was not there 3 days later when I was driving back. Interesting...


If it was just north of Ensenada I'm guessing it was the old airport, little more than a well maintained grass strip from memory. The airforce was based out of there as well.

It would see a few corp jets just from the well off people who had beach homes either at Rosarita or south of Ensenada.
 
n92r03
Posts: 538
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Re: Non-Registered G-II crashes near Belize/Mexican Border...

Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:48 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
n92r03 wrote:
Back in the mid 90's I was driving from San Diego to Ensenada and I remember seeing a G-II (or similar) parked at the end of what looked like a makeshift runway, errrr, road. Just hiding in plain sight. It was not derelict and it was not there 3 days later when I was driving back. Interesting...


If it was just north of Ensenada I'm guessing it was the old airport, little more than a well maintained grass strip from memory. The airforce was based out of there as well.

It would see a few corp jets just from the well off people who had beach homes either at Rosarita or south of Ensenada.


From what I can remember that is appx where it was. I looked on Google Maps but could not find it. A lot has changed in 20+ years.

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