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seb146
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New Aircraft In Countries like Angola and Kazakhstan

Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:03 pm

Mods, please move this if it is better in some other forum.

Every now and again, I see pictures of brand new aircraft for places like Angola and Kazakhstan, and other third world countries but these are brand new aircraft. I don't know that Sri Lanka and Pakistan would be listed as "third world" but they seem to always have new aircraft as well.

My question is: How can they afford them? Are they leased? Do they have financial assistance from colonizing countries (Angola getting money from Portugal for example)?
Last edited by SQ22 on Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
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MalevTU134
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Re: New Aircraft In Third World Countries

Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:39 pm

seb146 wrote:
Mods, please move this if it is better in some other forum.

Every now and again, I see pictures of brand new aircraft for places like Angola and Kazakhstan, and other third world countries but these are brand new aircraft. I don't know that Sri Lanka and Pakistan would be listed as "third world" but they seem to always have new aircraft as well.

My question is: How can they afford them? Are they leased? Do they have financial assistance from colonizing countries (Angola getting money from Portugal for example)?

Uffff....be prepared to be flamed for using the term "third world country" and for questioning how some countries dare afford new aircraft without the ex colonizing powers contributing.

And partly, rightly so. Angola, for example, has had a great decade of oil boom in the 2010s, with more Portuguese emigrating there then vice versa, in those years. Kazakhstan has gas...lots of it. And it was never colonized, unless you count the USSR as being a colonizer of some of the republics...

In short: some are leased, others bought, and to my knowledge, the countries (their airline(s)) pay for this themselves. The fact that many countries in the World has urgent social needs that their governments should attend to doesn't preclude or impede them from spending money on aircraft for the safe and efficient transport of their inhabitants and visitors. Not even on spanking shining new aircraft, if that is what they choose.
 
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FlyRow
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Re: New Aircraft In Countries like Angola and Kazakhstan

Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:45 pm

Simple, they pay for them or lease them. Somethimes goverments want too pay for a national carier providing airlinks. They could guarentee the loan making borrowing money easier.

It's not that weird.
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airzona11
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Re: New Aircraft In Countries like Angola and Kazakhstan

Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:51 pm

Both of the countries you listed have Oil, some of the top reserves in the world for Oil/Nat gas. their governments use what that entails to secure the loans to get the planes. The airlines are as much nationalized as they are commercial.
 
mxaxai
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Re: New Aircraft In Countries like Angola and Kazakhstan

Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:59 pm

The fundamental economics of airlines don't vary much between countries, nor does the cost of fuel. Remember that it's (usually) not a government or a people who buy those aircraft, but a company. No real difference between TAAG and AA/US/DL acquiring a 738.

Also, even if countries are poor on average, there are still some people - or tourists - who can afford to travel. Even in developed countries, most people don't fly more than once a year (if at all). Of course the less wealthy a country is, the smaller the proportion of people who fly. But it's not None. This map can give you an impression: http://world.bymap.org/AirTrafficPassengers.html
 
santi319
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Re: New Aircraft In Countries like Angola and Kazakhstan

Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:05 pm

Just because you dont know where Kazakhstan is doesn’t mean its automatically a third world country.

The amount of ignorance in a worldwide oriented aviation message board is alarming..
Last edited by santi319 on Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
asuflyer
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Re: New Aircraft In Countries like Angola and Kazakhstan

Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:05 pm

seb146 wrote:
Mods, please move this if it is better in some other forum.

Every now and again, I see pictures of brand new aircraft for places like Angola and Kazakhstan, and other third world countries but these are brand new aircraft. I don't know that Sri Lanka and Pakistan would be listed as "third world" but they seem to always have new aircraft as well.

My question is: How can they afford them? Are they leased? Do they have financial assistance from colonizing countries (Angola getting money from Portugal for example)?


First of all using third-world countries is a very antiquated term. Angola and Kazakstan are both middle income countries. If you look at the main airlines in both of the respective countries they are controlled mostly by the government. TAAG is 100% controlled by the Angolan government and Air Astana is jointly controlled by the Kazak government and BAE Systems. These are both countries rich in oil and minerals. Sometimes it is even easier for airlines from developing countries west to obtain newer aircraft, with more development subsidies, and prestige investments than in the west. This is a complete myth that people outside North America and Europe do not experience high standards of living and infrastructure, something that is seemingly difficult for people in North America to comprehend.
 
santi319
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Re: New Aircraft In Countries like Angola and Kazakhstan

Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:07 pm

asuflyer wrote:
. This is a complete myth that people outside North America and Europe do not experience high standards of living and infrastructure, something that is seemingly difficult for people in North America to comprehend.

Ok but no, change North America to United States.

Canadians and Mexicans are not like that.
 
Cunard
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Re: New Aircraft In Countries like Angola and Kazakhstan

Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:08 pm

I wouldn't have been surprised if this thread and a very naive thread may I add was started by a new member or someone below the age of 20 but I'm shocked that the OP has been a member for 20 years with 20635 posts.

A quick search online would have given the OP enough information regarding the oil in Angola and the gas in Kazakhstan and all those other so called ''third world'' countries.

The flippant use of the term ''third world'' is not going to do him any favours. It seems that the OP has a lot to learn. I can see this thread eventually being locked.
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aemoreira1981
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Re: New Aircraft In Countries like Angola and Kazakhstan

Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:23 pm

TAAG actually has a pretty modern fleet. The last two old planes they had were sold to Nolinor and got glass cockpits. As for Kazakhstan, it should be noted that the national carrier’s aircraft are all registered in Aruba.

You would have a better argument if you mentioned a country like the Democratic Republic of the Congo (Congo Kinshasa).
 
LimaFoxTango
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Re: New Aircraft In Countries like Angola and Kazakhstan

Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:54 pm

Here goes another American with an antiquated view that black and brown people can't afford to buy new airplanes or have nice things. They must always fly 30+ year old hand me down aircraft from the US desert.

There I said it.
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seb146
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Re: New Aircraft In Countries like Angola and Kazakhstan

Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:58 pm

I was asking an honest question worded poorly. Instead of attacking and name calling, how about educating? Otherwise, delete the thread, please.
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eal
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Re: New Aircraft In Countries like Angola and Kazakhstan

Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:28 pm

seb146 wrote:
I was asking an honest question worded poorly. Instead of attacking and name calling, how about educating? Otherwise, delete the thread, please.


There is a far greater gradient to development then you are aware of. Countries do not exsist in the three tier system you described. Countries like Mexico, Thailand, Kazakhstan, etc., and to a lesser extent Angola, Ethiopia, etc. have unequal levels of economic development internally-there are very wealthy individuals and very poor ones, and usually a small middle class between the two. These countries all have advanced modern airlines.

I think if you knew more about development you'd see that the really underdeveloped countries actually don't have new aircraft or airlines at all usually. Haiti, Burkina Faso, Chad, those are the "real" third world countries.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: New Aircraft In Countries like Angola and Kazakhstan

Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:38 pm

When you consider fuel efficiency of new engines, MRO costs of used planes and export credit offers from the US, EU, Canada and Brazil it really doesn't make sense to buy used aircraft. Hence the omnipresent new aircraft in the third world.
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cedarjet
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Re: New Aircraft In Countries like Angola and Kazakhstan

Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:48 pm

seb146 wrote:
I was asking an honest question worded poorly. Instead of attacking and name calling, how about educating? Otherwise, delete the thread, please.

Dude get a passport and go and see a bit of the world. Plenty of middle class in nearly all societies, and btw even a country that is objectively poor has billions in revenue, and we’re only talking about a handful of 777s, not a space programme.
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OA940
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Re: New Aircraft In Countries like Angola and Kazakhstan

Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:50 pm

Cunard wrote:
I wouldn't have been surprised if this thread and a very naive thread may I add was started by a new member or someone below the age of 20 but I'm shocked that the OP has been a member for 20 years with 20635 posts.

A quick search online would have given the OP enough information regarding the oil in Angola and the gas in Kazakhstan and all those other so called ''third world'' countries.

The flippant use of the term ''third world'' is not going to do him any favours. It seems that the OP has a lot to learn. I can see this thread eventually being locked.


Hey uh I just wanna point out that age is literally completely irrelevant to everything you just said assuming we're not talking about 10-year olds. Can we get past that myth?

Regarding the actual post, it's worded pretty badly but that doesn't mean OP needs to be gutted in the town hall and hung up for the world to see. They may have simply expressed their thoughts in a bad way. I mean, we've all done it. That said, I do get some of the backlash, and while I'm nowhere near an expert on Angola or Kazakhstan's economies, societies and any other factor that determines what kind of country they are, I do think calling them ''third world'' is a bit of a stretch.

And to actually answer the question (which about 10% of the responses did, gotta love the internet), a country's financials have nothing to do with an airline's ability to get planes. Lease contracts can be relatively cheap, and the airline never pays full price. Plus, in the case of TAAG and Air Astana respectively (since you brought those countries up) their fleets are relatively small so the expenses aren't big. They have the cash to lease a couple of aircraft.

Probably poorly explained because I kinda suck at English but I hope you get the main point
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lightsaber
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Re: New Aircraft In Countries like Angola and Kazakhstan

Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:56 pm

Because of unintended trigger phrases in the OP post, this thread is being locked. Feel free to start a thread asking how companies in lower GNP per person finance aircraft.
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