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Nicknuzzii
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(Rumour) Norwegian dropping EWR

Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:21 pm

Just tried to do some booking on DY for EWR - BCN and FCO and now it appears I can't book either after October 27th. This would coincide with their recent JFK additions. Does anyone have any confirmation on this?
 
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bluefltspecial
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Re: (Rumour) Norwegian dropping EWR

Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:32 pm

This has not been formally announced, but it was already loaded into the GDS last week, as mentioned in Enilria's weekly post. It's quite interesting as the change over is only about 60 days out.

Both BCN & FCO will switch to JFK in place of the reduction of Scandi departure slots during winter. EWR will no longer be served by Norwegian.

From what I understand, the entire Spring/Summer 2020 schedule for Norwegian will change to different arrival/departure time schedules, but not much has been loaded aside from one of the LGW flights departing JFK at 7pm starting around FEB 2020.
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VS4ever
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Re: (Rumour) Norwegian dropping EWR

Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:45 pm

It’s always worth checking out DY’s own route map, found the dropping of BOS-MAD a long time before rhe whole conversation about the MAD base closure. Just remember to select non stop as an option and it becomes clear very quickly
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Dieuwer
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Re: (Rumour) Norwegian dropping EWR

Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:31 am

Norwegian may not even be around summer 2020.
 
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ChrisNH38
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Re: (Rumour) Norwegian dropping EWR

Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:36 am

There’s a lot of new capacity heading to Boston next summer, with many suggesting it is an effort to drive Norwegian from there, too. I have no idea whether BOS demand can support it all. Or at least profitably.
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SurfandSnow
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Re: (Rumour) Norwegian dropping EWR

Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:03 am

IIRC it wasn't all that long ago that Norwegian publicly announced its desire to consolidate Tri-State Area operations at JFK. The struggling airline has already ended all operations at SWF and I figured it wouldn't be long before they left EWR as well. This strategy is also playing out in other U.S. markets too, where Norwegian is focusing on serving American cities via the higher yielding primary international airports. They have also cut PVD and begun to shift operations from FLL to MIA and OAK to SFO.
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FlyingElvii
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Re: (Rumour) Norwegian dropping EWR

Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:06 am

EWR has become stupidly expense for any to operate in, that isn’t United.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: (Rumour) Norwegian dropping EWR

Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:11 am

Dieuwer wrote:
Norwegian may not even be around summer 2020.


That's just what they're trying to prevent by measurements like this.

Norwegian is restructuring their route network and consolidating into a single New York airport is part of that process. Newark is known to be the most expensive airport in the USA when it comes to landing and handling fees, so it's logical they can't stay there. It was only temporary because they didn't have enough slots at JFK.
 
cedarjet
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Re: (Rumour) Norwegian dropping EWR

Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:42 am

Dieuwer wrote:
Norwegian may not even be around summer 2020.

They will.
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Murdoughnut
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Re: (Rumour) Norwegian dropping EWR

Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:59 am

Dieuwer wrote:
Norwegian may not even be around summer 2020.


Except we thought that last summer too.
 
njdevilsin03
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Re: (Rumour) Norwegian dropping EWR

Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:13 pm

They didn’t shift operations to MIA from FLL they moved one route... Gatwick
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AndrewJM70
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Re: (Rumour) Norwegian dropping EWR

Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:18 pm

Murdoughnut wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Norwegian may not even be around summer 2020.


Except we thought that last summer too.


After last Summer they had NOK 1.3bn profit, their Gatwick slots and shares in investment backs to trade, as well as cash from their rights issue.

After this Summer they will have nothing, and few ways to raise cash. I would say the chances of them being around next Summer are very low.
 
mcdu
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Re: (Rumour) Norwegian dropping EWR

Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:01 pm

cedarjet wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Norwegian may not even be around summer 2020.

They will.


How will they be around next summer? Look at their financials and the ever continuing spiral of attempting to shrink to profitability. They acted way too late to fix their problems after expanding into markets no one wanted and selling tickets at prices that would never make a profit at 100%lf. If they were an established carrier with viable profitable routes they could have subsidized some money losing routes to perhaps get them established. But for Norwegian they have been bleeding cash at every departure.

The end is coming for them.
 
SoEWR
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Norwegian leaving EWR in a few weeks

Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:40 am

Norwegian has just announced that they are leaving Newark Airport at the end of the month. Does this mean more airlines are coming to Terminal B, or are French Bee and Corsair taking over its gate space in Terminal B?

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -oct-2019/
 
Cunard
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Re: Norwegian leaving EWR in a few weeks

Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:53 am

I would say that it's a bit too soon to tell if it means more airline's are coming to Terminal B or if French Bee or Corsair are taking over gate space in Terminal B!

Norwegian have ''only'' just announced their withdrawal from Newark, let's wait a while before any of your theoretical questions can be answered.
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Socrates17
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Re: Norwegian leaving EWR in a few weeks

Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:58 am

Well that isn't good news. There is no practical way to get to JFK from New Jersey unless you want to sit for hours and hours in traffic.
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bluefltspecial
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Re: Norwegian leaving EWR in a few weeks

Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:27 am

Socrates17 wrote:
Well that isn't good news. There is no practical way to get to JFK from New Jersey unless you want to sit for hours and hours in traffic.


Norwegian's flights that are moving from EWR to JFK both leave around midnight.

Not sure where you're coming from in Jersey, but it's rare to hit traffic at 9pm going either direction across the Verrazzano, the same with the Belt around that hour - and that's been for me the most direct route.
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Norwegian leaving EWR in a few weeks

Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:56 am

Socrates17 wrote:
Well that isn't good news. There is no practical way to get to JFK from New Jersey unless you want to sit for hours and hours in traffic.


Their primary target has never been New Jersey itself, it has always been New York City. I mean, how many Europeans would fly out to visit New Jersey when you got New York? What's so exciting about New Jersey?

It's no secret that Newark is the most expensive airport in the USA when it comes to landing and handling cost, so with Norwegian shrinking it's no surprise the most expensive routes are being cut the first.
 
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InnsbruckFlyer
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Re: Norwegian leaving EWR in a few weeks

Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:04 am

Socrates17 wrote:
Well that isn't good news. There is no practical way to get to JFK from New Jersey unless you want to sit for hours and hours in traffic.


LIRR to Penn and then NJ Transit is pretty practical, imo. The only slight pain is the AirTrain, but after that it’s (mostly) smooth sailing.
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ltbewr
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Re: Norwegian leaving EWR in a few weeks

Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:31 am

The worsening financial position of Norwegian compounded by the grounding of 737MAX's and engine issues of their 787's means they need to consolidate operations at fewer airports to cut their losses. They have pretty much phased out ops at Stewart about 60 miles from NYC/Northern NJ due to fleet issues. As others noted, EWR is very expensive to operate out of so it makes sense to move out.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Norwegian leaving EWR in a few weeks

Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:23 am

This isnt a normal course of business

Those that think it is are fooling themselves

I have been around long enough to know what desperate moves in rapid succession look like.

I feel very sorry for their employees...the end is in view unless these Hail Mary moves work.

Hail Mary moves sometimes work...
 
Eirules
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Re: Norwegian leaving EWR in a few weeks

Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:38 am

How come EWR is so expensive to operate into?
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dmstorm22
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Re: Norwegian leaving EWR in a few weeks

Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:18 pm

bluefltspecial wrote:
Socrates17 wrote:
Well that isn't good news. There is no practical way to get to JFK from New Jersey unless you want to sit for hours and hours in traffic.


Norwegian's flights that are moving from EWR to JFK both leave around midnight.

Not sure where you're coming from in Jersey, but it's rare to hit traffic at 9pm going either direction across the Verrazzano, the same with the Belt around that hour - and that's been for me the most direct route.


As someone who grew up in New Jersey and has gone to JFK many, many times, this is such an overstated issue. The traffic isn't great, but usually isn't disastrous either.

Yes, there will be the odd time that your transit through Staten Island -> BK -> Queens is two hours, but usually it is in the 60-75 range, if that.
 
B764er
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Re: Norwegian leaving EWR in a few weeks

Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:28 pm

Don't forget to bring a fat wallet to pay the tolls. Crossing from NJ to the NYC airports is never a cheap trip. Then add parking to that if you have to park.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Norwegian leaving EWR in a few weeks

Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:23 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Socrates17 wrote:
Well that isn't good news. There is no practical way to get to JFK from New Jersey unless you want to sit for hours and hours in traffic.


Their primary target has never been New Jersey itself, it has always been New York City. I mean, how many Europeans would fly out to visit New Jersey when you got New York? What's so exciting about New Jersey?

It's no secret that Newark is the most expensive airport in the USA when it comes to landing and handling cost, so with Norwegian shrinking it's no surprise the most expensive routes are being cut the first.


$1/passenger in CPE between EWR and JFK is not a meaningful difference. See post #5. viewtopic.php?t=1357825

With no meaningful difference in costs between JFK and EWR, every international carrier pays the same costs to service NYC. There is no comparative advantage, and airport costs aren't a reason not to serve NYC. (Poor yields may be a reason, but that's carrier-specific.)
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Norwegian leaving EWR in a few weeks

Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:29 pm

Eirules wrote:
How come EWR is so expensive to operate into?


Because there's more demand than capacity, so the scarce capacity they have is being sold at high prices. And yet, despite those high prices, they manage to sell all of their capacity. It's a matter of supply and demand.
 
Socrates17
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Re: Norwegian leaving EWR in a few weeks

Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:47 pm

dmstorm22 wrote:
bluefltspecial wrote:
Socrates17 wrote:
Well that isn't good news. There is no practical way to get to JFK from New Jersey unless you want to sit for hours and hours in traffic.


Norwegian's flights that are moving from EWR to JFK both leave around midnight.

Not sure where you're coming from in Jersey, but it's rare to hit traffic at 9pm going either direction across the Verrazzano, the same with the Belt around that hour - and that's been for me the most direct route.


As someone who grew up in New Jersey and has gone to JFK many, many times, this is such an overstated issue. The traffic isn't great, but usually isn't disastrous either.

Yes, there will be the odd time that your transit through Staten Island -> BK -> Queens is two hours, but usually it is in the 60-75 range, if that.


Granted. I should have been more specific. If coming from northern NJ (and I could hit New York State with a rock from my porch) there is no alternative to the Van Wyck. I have sat in traffic in Bangkok. I have sat in traffic in Hong Kong going by tunnel from the Island to Kowloon and v.v. I have driven the I405 from North Hollywood to LAX. There is nothing on the planet as hellish as the Van Wyck, basically 24/7. The last time I had to pick somebody up at JFK I took the Northern State to the Meadowbrook to the Southern State to avoid the Van Wyck. I probably saved 2 hours.
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ODwyerPW
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Re: Norwegian leaving EWR in a few weeks

Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:57 pm

Wow, I didn't know they left SWF. A few friends in upstate NY told me it was a great way to fly to Europe...Far better than having to go to EWR/JFK or BOS to get across the pond.
learning never stops.
 
N649DL
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Re: (Rumour) Norwegian dropping EWR

Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:21 am

FlyingElvii wrote:
EWR has become stupidly expense for any to operate in, that isn’t United.


It has always been: independent of United & Continental as well. Why do you think UA moved some of it's express ops strictly to IAD after many years of operation from EWR? Even they got tired of the fees.

I'd wager even Delta got fed up with operating EWR-AMS/CDG and both dropped after flying them for a long while as well. I'm willing to bet it's more because of fees than load factors of pax or cargo. Yet they now operate EWR-RDU/BOS/SLC with more frequency so who knows what's going on out there these days.

EWR is a weird airport if you recall all the airlines that have taken risks out there over the last 30-40 years and suddenly dropped presence at the airport.
 
JBLUA320
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Re: Norwegian leaving EWR in a few weeks

Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:47 am

There are some very talented people in the network team at Norwegian who are finally able to execute on plans they had 2-3 years in the making. I know this because I worked there in a capacity that was categorically close to them. With the CEO out and large turnover at the upper management levels, some barriers are now finally removed and the network team can refocus the operation in a way that brings it toward profitability. Internal dialogue about consolidating Scandinavia and NYC (amongst other markets) was on the cards for a long while. The clouded vision of some got in the way of good data, reason, and strategy for most. I'm glad to see the winds are finally reversing and I really hope the airline can pull through.

As for the capacity shift on LGW from OAK to SFO, it was primarily about catching the south bay's premium demand and having better infrastructure for cargo. Cargo was a big factor in moving the LGW flight from FLL to MIA.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Norwegian leaving EWR in a few weeks

Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:11 pm

Something I found quite interesting was that DY has already trimmed FCO-JFK since switching ops, the route was served 6-7x weekly yes round from EWR but now is served daily in the winter and only 3-4x weekly in the winter. BCN has also been trimmed to a lesser extent.

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