Doug Parker Interview DMN

Phoenix757767 · Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:22 pm

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... nys-image/

American Airlines CEO Doug Parker on the return of the Max, falling stock price and rehabbing the company's image
He says it doesn't matter what the carrier does until it fixes problems with late arrivals and cancellations.

TYWoolman · Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:48 pm

I wish American well and my comment here more of constructive criticism. When a CEO is happy operations are good because of a court-ordered injunction, that is all well and good. But it's concerning that the focus is on operational reliability (or lack thereof in American's case) without any discussion or focus on the underlying reasons for operational unreliability. Operational reliability is short-lived if robotic (court-ordered).

910A · Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:55 pm

I noticed Parker didn't mention one word regarding the guest experience onboard one of his company's planes..

BA744PHX · Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:59 pm

910A wrote:
I noticed Parker didn't mention one word regarding the guest experience onboard one of his company's planes..

Weird, he didn't mention something he was never asked.....

TYWoolman · Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:10 pm

910A wrote:
I noticed Parker didn't mention one word regarding the guest experience onboard one of his company's planes..

Mr. Parker DOES talk about operational reliability, which is a broad topic, so I think operational reliability can transcend into onboard operations/customer service naturally. Why talk everything negative about your airline when the interview itself was more of a general one in nature?

The answers he provided on a number of questions to your point, however, were very superficial, perhaps not to tip his hand (?) or because there just aren't answers for them as of yet. Losing LATAM is not the problem. It's a symptom. LATAM (and perhaps Chilean government) sees something in DELTA it doesn't see in AMERICAN.

chepos · Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:15 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
910A wrote:
I noticed Parker didn't mention one word regarding the guest experience onboard one of his company's planes..

Mr. Parker DOES talk about operational reliability, which is a broad topic, so I think operational reliability can transcend into onboard operations/customer service naturally. Why talk everything negative about your airline when the interview itself was more of a general one in nature?

The answers he provided on a number of questions to your point, however, were very superficial, perhaps not to tip his hand (?) or because there just aren't answers for them as of yet. Losing LATAM is not the problem. It's a symptom. LATAM (and perhaps Chilean government) sees something in DELTA it doesn't see in AMERICAN.

Well for one, DL is much smaller in South America than AA (particularly in Chile). That is something apparently the Chilean regulators can see favorably, there main concern was AA/LATAM would have a virtual monopoly on a route like MIA-SCL.

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TYWoolman · Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:17 pm

chepos wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
910A wrote:
I noticed Parker didn't mention one word regarding the guest experience onboard one of his company's planes..

Mr. Parker DOES talk about operational reliability, which is a broad topic, so I think operational reliability can transcend into onboard operations/customer service naturally. Why talk everything negative about your airline when the interview itself was more of a general one in nature?

The answers he provided on a number of questions to your point, however, were very superficial, perhaps not to tip his hand (?) or because there just aren't answers for them as of yet. Losing LATAM is not the problem. It's a symptom. LATAM (and perhaps Chilean government) sees something in DELTA it doesn't see in AMERICAN.

Well for one, DL is much smaller in South America than AA (particularly in Chile). That is something apparently the Chilean regulators can see favorably, there main concern was AA/LATAM would have a virtual monopoly on a route like MIA-SCL.

True. But wouldn't American and LATAM have proposed a divesture? Or wouldn't that be an easy remedy? I think the DELTA-LATAM deal was a Chilean gov't move for it's home-town airline.

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TYWoolman · Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:20 pm

True above. But wouldn't American and LATAM have proposed a divesture? Or wouldn't that be an easy remedy? I think the DELTA-LATAM deal was a Chilean gov't move for it's home-town airline. Meaning the issue here to the topic is American's approach on things was lacking. LATAM's missions of digital transformation, customer satisfaction, onboard product consistency, etc...all are in line with Delta's approach/management style. There is more upside value and synergy partnering with the same management styles. This is the key reason for the partnership I think.

chepos · Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:24 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
True above. But wouldn't American and LATAM have proposed a divesture? Or wouldn't that be an easy remedy? I think the DELTA-LATAM deal was a Chilean gov't move for it's home-town airline. Meaning the issue here to the topic is American's approach on things was lacking.

So are you trying to say these past couple of years the Chilean govt kept blocking the deal hoping DL would come in as the knight in shining armor to save LATAM?

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TYWoolman · Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:39 pm

chepos wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
True above. But wouldn't American and LATAM have proposed a divesture? Or wouldn't that be an easy remedy? I think the DELTA-LATAM deal was a Chilean gov't move for it's home-town airline. Meaning the issue here to the topic is American's approach on things was lacking.

So are you trying to say these past couple of years the Chilean govt kept blocking the deal hoping DL would come in as the knight in shining armor to save LATAM?

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I am not saying that per se, as I am not familiar with how many times they officially did not approve of the JV (wasn't keeping up on that). Will read more up on that. But it could have been an opportunistic time to disapprove of it the last time around in order to push the partnership to Delta. Do you know off hand if the Chilean gov't proposed a remedy or divesture? The Chilean gov't however may have not approved it on any occasion because of the very reason that LATAM is a merged entity based in Chile. The best long-term viability/prospects of a strong LATAM is to partner with a strong U.S. entity that also allows it to grow along side rather than compete with it's partner's capacity in key markets. For the record: I do think Delta is the better partner of Latam.

usflyer msp · Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:54 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
chepos wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
True above. But wouldn't American and LATAM have proposed a divesture? Or wouldn't that be an easy remedy? I think the DELTA-LATAM deal was a Chilean gov't move for it's home-town airline. Meaning the issue here to the topic is American's approach on things was lacking.

So are you trying to say these past couple of years the Chilean govt kept blocking the deal hoping DL would come in as the knight in shining armor to save LATAM?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am not saying that per se, as I am not familiar with how many times they officially did not approve of the JV (wasn't keeping up on that). Will read more up on that. But it could have been an opportunistic time to disapprove of it the last time around in order to push the partnership to Delta. Do you know off hand if the Chilean gov't proposed a remedy or divesture? The Chilean gov't however may have not approved it on any occasion because of the very reason that LATAM is a merged entity based in Chile. The best long-term viability/prospects of a strong LATAM is to partner with a strong U.S. entity that also allows it to grow along side rather than compete with it's partner's capacity in key markets. For the record: I do think Delta is the better partner of Latam.

Divestiture was not an option. Obviously, neither AA nor LA was going to drop SCL-MIA and neither airport is slot restricted so its not like AA or LA could just makes some slots available for competitors. What exactly would you have AA/LA divest of?

chepos · Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:54 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
chepos wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
True above. But wouldn't American and LATAM have proposed a divesture? Or wouldn't that be an easy remedy? I think the DELTA-LATAM deal was a Chilean gov't move for it's home-town airline. Meaning the issue here to the topic is American's approach on things was lacking.

So are you trying to say these past couple of years the Chilean govt kept blocking the deal hoping DL would come in as the knight in shining armor to save LATAM?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am not saying that per se, as I am not familiar with how many times they officially did not approve of the JV (wasn't keeping up on that). Will read more up on that. But it could have been an opportunistic time to disapprove of it the last time around in order to push the partnership to Delta. Do you know off hand if the Chilean gov't proposed a remedy or divesture? The Chilean gov't however may have not approved it on any occasion because of the very reason that LATAM is a merged entity based in Chile. The best long-term viability/prospects of a strong LATAM is to partner with a strong U.S. entity that also allows it to grow along side rather than compete with it's partner's capacity in key markets. For the record: I do think Delta is the better partner of Latam.

First go around the JV was approved by Chile but with a series of conditions the airlines deemed unacceptable. They refiled and that is when the Chile SC turned them down.

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PSAatSAN4Ever · Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:08 pm

Phoenix757767 wrote:
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/airlines/2019/10/06/american-airlines-ceo-doug-parker-return-max-falling-stock-price-rehabbing-companys-image/

American Airlines CEO Doug Parker on the return of the Max, falling stock price and rehabbing the company's image
He says it doesn't matter what the carrier does until it fixes problems with late arrivals and cancellations.

As I read the article, all I could think of was the song from the mid-1980’s, “you spin me right round baby, right round, like a record baby, right round round, round!”

He did what a CEO is supposed to do - take the situation, however bad it is, and make it appear to the outside world that everything is just fine, and tHat the issues affecting the company are being addressed. I would expect nothing less.

However, this very “friendly piece” sheds no light on anything being done to address the fundamental problems facing AA today. Actions speak louder than words, Doug, and until we see actions from you and the board that you are serious about addressing these problems, I cannot and will not believe you are anything other than a vulture capitalist, whose sole mission in life is to enrich his own pockets at the expense of an entire company and the vast number of employees. I really hope I am wrong, and I will be the first to admit it when AA soars once again to great heights; however, he has his golden parachute, so no loss for him if the airline is mismanaged into oblivion.

TYWoolman · Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:34 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
chepos wrote:

So are you trying to say these past couple of years the Chilean govt kept blocking the deal hoping DL would come in as the knight in shining armor to save LATAM?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am not saying that per se, as I am not familiar with how many times they officially did not approve of the JV (wasn't keeping up on that). Will read more up on that. But it could have been an opportunistic time to disapprove of it the last time around in order to push the partnership to Delta. Do you know off hand if the Chilean gov't proposed a remedy or divesture? The Chilean gov't however may have not approved it on any occasion because of the very reason that LATAM is a merged entity based in Chile. The best long-term viability/prospects of a strong LATAM is to partner with a strong U.S. entity that also allows it to grow along side rather than compete with it's partner's capacity in key markets. For the record: I do think Delta is the better partner of Latam.

Divestiture was not an option. Obviously, neither AA nor LA was going to drop SCL-MIA and neither airport is slot restricted so its not like AA or LA could just makes some slots available for competitors. What exactly would you have AA/LA divest of?

I don't know. But now I will research on what the Chilean government had presented as a condition for approval and whether American had short-sightedness to not go along with it and risk Latam's loyalty.

TYWoolman · Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:13 pm

I found out a few things. I found that the conditions of Chilean antitrust dept. were: requiring LATAM to maintain its capacity on its nonstop routes from Santiago to both Miami and Madrid, and to add capacity on routes to North America and Europe. As of yet I cannot find what the actual response was from Latam and American at that time. But what actually stopped the deal was the Supreme Court of Chile, perhaps because American and Latam didn't agree with the conditions of the antitrust dept. or court didn't believe the carriers would honor the antitrust dept. conditions. If increased competition and passenger benefit is to be promoted with JV's then the antitrust dept conditions seems plausible, but perhaps that would have been seen as siphoning passengers away from Iberia and American metal and cost synergies lost. I think the entire American-Latam argument was the JV needed to be approved because everyone was doing it and this narrative seemed to propel the notion that the JV was a way to solidity the South American market in the same kind of structure other prospering regions have and do enjoy. So maybe a different American position on the matter would have gotten the deal approved. But ditto for Latam. From what I understand, Delta was approached for a deal. I think the Chilean gov't nudged Latam a bit and gave it a little wink.

hagela · Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:13 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/airlines/2019/10/06/american-airlines-ceo-doug-parker-return-max-falling-stock-price-rehabbing-companys-image/

American Airlines CEO Doug Parker on the return of the Max, falling stock price and rehabbing the company's image
He says it doesn't matter what the carrier does until it fixes problems with late arrivals and cancellations.

he has his golden parachute, so no loss for him if the airline is mismanaged into oblivion.

Parker takes his entire (maybe just majority?) of his salary as American stock. So he literally does lose if the airline is mismanaged into oblivion.

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WingsOfLove · Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:28 pm

hagela wrote:
Parker takes his entire (maybe just majority?) of his salary as American stock

100%

Scarebus34 · Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:33 pm

American is in disarray. It’s going to take big change to turn it around... Parker isn’t the right guy to do that.

spinotter · Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:18 pm

chepos wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
True above. But wouldn't American and LATAM have proposed a divesture? Or wouldn't that be an easy remedy? I think the DELTA-LATAM deal was a Chilean gov't move for it's home-town airline. Meaning the issue here to the topic is American's approach on things was lacking.

So are you trying to say these past couple of years the Chilean govt kept blocking the deal hoping DL would come in as the knight in shining armor to save LATAM?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is not inconceivable, is it? Perhaps a little unlikely.

spinotter · Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:22 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/airlines/2019/10/06/american-airlines-ceo-doug-parker-return-max-falling-stock-price-rehabbing-companys-image/

American Airlines CEO Doug Parker on the return of the Max, falling stock price and rehabbing the company's image
He says it doesn't matter what the carrier does until it fixes problems with late arrivals and cancellations.

As I read the article, all I could think of was the song from the mid-1980’s, “you spin me right round baby, right round, like a record baby, right round round, round!”

He did what a CEO is supposed to do - take the situation, however bad it is, and make it appear to the outside world that everything is just fine, and tHat the issues affecting the company are being addressed. I would expect nothing less.

However, this very “friendly piece” sheds no light on anything being done to address the fundamental problems facing AA today. Actions speak louder than words, Doug, and until we see actions from you and the board that you are serious about addressing these problems, I cannot and will not believe you are anything other than a vulture capitalist, whose sole mission in life is to enrich his own pockets at the expense of an entire company and the vast number of employees. I really hope I am wrong, and I will be the first to admit it when AA soars once again to great heights; however, he has his golden parachute, so no loss for him if the airline is mismanaged into oblivion.

Very well reasoned, IMHO. So do you have a laundry list of the concrete measures that Kirby or his successor(s) need to implement in order to cure the AA-malaise?

MIflyer12 · Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:08 pm

hagela wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/airlines/2019/10/06/american-airlines-ceo-doug-parker-return-max-falling-stock-price-rehabbing-companys-image/

American Airlines CEO Doug Parker on the return of the Max, falling stock price and rehabbing the company's image
He says it doesn't matter what the carrier does until it fixes problems with late arrivals and cancellations.

he has his golden parachute, so no loss for him if the airline is mismanaged into oblivion.

Parker takes his entire (maybe just majority?) of his salary as American stock. So he literally does lose if the airline is mismanaged into oblivion.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

It takes a lot of mismanagement to make a grant of stock worth zero. Parker is still well paid. See the Proxy Statement: https://americanairlines.gcs-web.com/st ... a982415346

chonetsao · Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:53 pm

I start to think the share based compensation is a big con in Dougie Parker's part. Think this way, Dougie has his compensation paid in shares. So regardless how bad the performance is, he gets certain number of shares. The lower stock price is, the more share he is getting. By the time he leaves company another smarter and more capable guy comes in, save the company from declining, share price rises. Dougie would be happy to take all the gains in stock price and profit double even triple. What is the incentive for Dougie to take AA into a new level if he knows on e he retires he would have more AA shares when share price is low due to underperform?

F9Animal · Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:49 am

I have always thought highly of Doug Parker. But, I recall he once made a statement that AA would be profitable forever? Or something to that kind of talk?

I think AA should look at the Airbus 220.

milemaster · Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:10 am

Interesting article somewhat relevant to this topic.
https://www.inc.com/chris-matyszczyk/american-airlines-just-gave-a-perfect-painfully-detailed-explanation-for-why-passengers-prefer-delta.html

STT757 · Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:20 am

milemaster wrote:
Interesting article somewhat relevant to this topic.
https://www.inc.com/chris-matyszczyk/american-airlines-just-gave-a-perfect-painfully-detailed-explanation-for-why-passengers-prefer-delta.html

That’s a terrible biased piece.

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HPAEAA · Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:24 am

milemaster wrote:
Interesting article somewhat relevant to this topic.
https://www.inc.com/chris-matyszczyk/american-airlines-just-gave-a-perfect-painfully-detailed-explanation-for-why-passengers-prefer-delta.html

Wow that was terrible logic.... AA had 4FAs, 3 min on most MD80 flights, yes AMR went to 160 on the 738, still with 4 FAs from what I recall, but what is this nonsense about 10 dead seats? Also AAL is the group which pushed to 172- US had non 737s left.... so harmonization as an excuse?

Art at ISP · Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:28 pm

So this happened to my wife this past weekend--she was flying DLH-LGA on DL. She noted that AA and UA had cancelled all their flights due to weather (poor visibility in DLH), and that AA had sent two planes but they turned back to ORD. The AA customers were not re-accommodated right away, and told to call reservations. My wife waited patiently on a line and held for over 45 minutes until DL answered her call (she has no status). They rebooked her 2:30PM LGA flight to one leaving at 8:15 to JFK which is easier for me to pick her up anyway, and put her on the standby list for the one flight expected to leave for MSP--the plane which had overnighted at DLH. She got the last seat on the commuter flight to MSP, and made her connection with time to spare. The agent in DLH even went on board to remove standby passengers who had cleared in error.

After being a million miler on AA, and seeing how they treat their best and highest spending customers, I refuse to give them any of my money unless they are the ONLY option. I have met D0ug a few times, and the contempt he holds for his employees and frequent customers is palpable.

Most telling however is the fact that the only reason AA is profitable is from the sale of miles--they actually lose money flying people!!!
He needs to go while there is still an airline to save.

Miamiairport · Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:56 am

One big issue is the banking of hubs. Yes it provides greater a/c utilization and profits but with an inefficient operation it becomes a flyer's nightmare. I can't tell you the number of times I've been sitting on an already late arriving a/c at MIA waiting for a gate. Now being MIA based for me I'm going to get a little less sleep. For those connecting to the last and often only flight to SA it means either a night and day at MIA airport or an expensive out of pocket hotel. Yes CKs/EXPs might get re-accommodated on another carrier flight or at least a hotel/food vouchers, the others are told to go pound sand. Clearly AA can't operate a busy hub like DL and should abandon banked hubs until they can.

Maybe Parker looked at the numbers and realized that even with the cost of misconnects and late arriving/departing flights AA was still coming out ahead with banked flights but it tarnishes the airline and de-moralizes front line employees forced to deal with the aftermath.

Phoenix757767 · Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:15 pm

F9Animal wrote:
I have always thought highly of Doug Parker. But, I recall he once made a statement that AA would be profitable forever? Or something to that kind of talk?

I think AA should look at the Airbus 220.

Why add another fleet type? The mission is well covered by A319s. They’ve bought used ones from F9 and are on the market for more.

There isn’t a need for the A220 at AA and AA’s debt is already too high, no need to increase it and increase costs.

Phoenix757767 · Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:17 pm

Art at ISP wrote:
So this happened to my wife this past weekend--she was flying DLH-LGA on DL. She noted that AA and UA had cancelled all their flights due to weather (poor visibility in DLH), and that AA had sent two planes but they turned back to ORD. The AA customers were not re-accommodated right away, and told to call reservations. My wife waited patiently on a line and held for over 45 minutes until DL answered her call (she has no status). They rebooked her 2:30PM LGA flight to one leaving at 8:15 to JFK which is easier for me to pick her up anyway, and put her on the standby list for the one flight expected to leave for MSP--the plane which had overnighted at DLH. She got the last seat on the commuter flight to MSP, and made her connection with time to spare. The agent in DLH even went on board to remove standby passengers who had cleared in error.

After being a million miler on AA, and seeing how they treat their best and highest spending customers, I refuse to give them any of my money unless they are the ONLY option. I have met D0ug a few times, and the contempt he holds for his employees and frequent customers is palpable.

Most telling however is the fact that the only reason AA is profitable is from the sale of miles--they actually lose money flying people!!!
He needs to go while there is still an airline to save.

For 2019 AA is profitable on flying passengers.

Art at ISP · Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:27 pm

Phoenix757767 wrote:
Art at ISP wrote:
So this happened to my wife this past weekend--she was flying DLH-LGA on DL. She noted that AA and UA had cancelled all their flights due to weather (poor visibility in DLH), and that AA had sent two planes but they turned back to ORD. The AA customers were not re-accommodated right away, and told to call reservations. My wife waited patiently on a line and held for over 45 minutes until DL answered her call (she has no status). They rebooked her 2:30PM LGA flight to one leaving at 8:15 to JFK which is easier for me to pick her up anyway, and put her on the standby list for the one flight expected to leave for MSP--the plane which had overnighted at DLH. She got the last seat on the commuter flight to MSP, and made her connection with time to spare. The agent in DLH even went on board to remove standby passengers who had cleared in error.

After being a million miler on AA, and seeing how they treat their best and highest spending customers, I refuse to give them any of my money unless they are the ONLY option. I have met D0ug a few times, and the contempt he holds for his employees and frequent customers is palpable.

Most telling however is the fact that the only reason AA is profitable is from the sale of miles--they actually lose money flying people!!!
He needs to go while there is still an airline to save.

For 2019 AA is profitable on flying passengers.

I question that in light of all the operational difficulties this year. Not saying it isn't true, I just question that.
Parker has a history of stepping over dollars to pick up pennies. He is well aware of the high cost of cheap, and doesn't seem to care.
IMHO he can't be shown the door fast enough--and no one from his team should be picked to succeed him.

OB1504 · Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:55 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
One big issue is the banking of hubs. Yes it provides greater a/c utilization and profits but with an inefficient operation it becomes a flyer's nightmare. I can't tell you the number of times I've been sitting on an already late arriving a/c at MIA waiting for a gate. Now being MIA based for me I'm going to get a little less sleep. For those connecting to the last and often only flight to SA it means either a night and day at MIA airport or an expensive out of pocket hotel. Yes CKs/EXPs might get re-accommodated on another carrier flight or at least a hotel/food vouchers, the others are told to go pound sand. Clearly AA can't operate a busy hub like DL and should abandon banked hubs until they can.

Maybe Parker looked at the numbers and realized that even with the cost of misconnects and late arriving/departing flights AA was still coming out ahead with banked flights but it tarnishes the airline and de-moralizes front line employees forced to deal with the aftermath.

At MIA in particular, they’re pretty much maxed out on gates at peak times. If they want to expand any more they have to do it between banks or start using other concourses.

9w748capt · Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:39 pm

Is DL's passenger demographic that much different than AA's? I find it bizarre that all of AA's data says people would rather watch movies on their 3 inch phones, while somehow DL's passengers strongly prefer built in IFE. Amazing to me that the US airline that's actually investing in it's product is also the most profitable. I mean that is just insane!

JAMBOJET · Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:15 pm

9w748capt wrote:
Is DL's passenger demographic that much different than AA's? I find it bizarre that all of AA's data says people would rather watch movies on their 3 inch phones, while somehow DL's passengers strongly prefer built in IFE. Amazing to me that the US airline that's actually investing in it's product is also the most profitable. I mean that is just insane!

I’d imagine AA’s data is similar to: AS, F9, NK, WN, and UA. Some more profitable on margin than Delta, some less.
Delta’s data is similar to... B6 and the long gone Virgin America...?

9w748capt · Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:26 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
Is DL's passenger demographic that much different than AA's? I find it bizarre that all of AA's data says people would rather watch movies on their 3 inch phones, while somehow DL's passengers strongly prefer built in IFE. Amazing to me that the US airline that's actually investing in it's product is also the most profitable. I mean that is just insane!

I’d imagine AA’s data is similar to: AS, F9, NK, WN, and UA. Some more profitable on margin than Delta, some less.
Delta’s data is similar to... B6 and the long gone Virgin America...?

Which of those has higher margins than DL?

PhilMcCrackin · Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:32 pm

9w748capt wrote:
Is DL's passenger demographic that much different than AA's? I find it bizarre that all of AA's data says people would rather watch movies on their 3 inch phones, while somehow DL's passengers strongly prefer built in IFE. Amazing to me that the US airline that's actually investing in it's product is also the most profitable. I mean that is just insane!

AA seems to be under the impression that they can strip their product down to ULCC levels and still command legacy quality yields, and, well, customers aren't that stupid.

MIflyer12 · Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:39 pm

9w748capt wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
Is DL's passenger demographic that much different than AA's? I find it bizarre that all of AA's data says people would rather watch movies on their 3 inch phones, while somehow DL's passengers strongly prefer built in IFE. Amazing to me that the US airline that's actually investing in it's product is also the most profitable. I mean that is just insane!

I’d imagine AA’s data is similar to: AS, F9, NK, WN, and UA. Some more profitable on margin than Delta, some less.
Delta’s data is similar to... B6 and the long gone Virgin America...?

Which of those has higher margins than DL?

It depends on the quarter or year at which you're looking, but WN typically.

and back to Doug Parker...

Mboyle1988 · Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:43 pm

9w748capt wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
Is DL's passenger demographic that much different than AA's? I find it bizarre that all of AA's data says people would rather watch movies on their 3 inch phones, while somehow DL's passengers strongly prefer built in IFE. Amazing to me that the US airline that's actually investing in it's product is also the most profitable. I mean that is just insane!

I’d imagine AA’s data is similar to: AS, F9, NK, WN, and UA. Some more profitable on margin than Delta, some less.
Delta’s data is similar to... B6 and the long gone Virgin America...?

Which of those has higher margins than DL?

For FY 2018, only WN.

PA110 · Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:47 pm

Doug Parker is the primary reason things have gone downhill so far at AA. For all intents and purposes, he's replaced the last vestiges of AA's Flagship service with the utter blandness of US Airways. Having just flown to BUE and back from SCL in Premium Y, I was caught off guard by just how much service has declined. F/A's couldn't even be bothered to make eye contact during meal service. The best I could say for both flights was that the service was indifferent at best.

musman9853 · Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:08 pm

9w748capt wrote:
Is DL's passenger demographic that much different than AA's? I find it bizarre that all of AA's data says people would rather watch movies on their 3 inch phones, while somehow DL's passengers strongly prefer built in IFE. Amazing to me that the US airline that's actually investing in it's product is also the most profitable. I mean that is just insane!

it's not 2010 anymore. My 6.8in QHD OLED phone, with literally the best screen in the world at that size, is faaar better than any ife system on any plane. Have fun watching a movie on a shitty 720 lcd panel.

MSPNWA · Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:44 pm

It's not sexy, but what Doug is saying needs to happen is by far the most important thing for AA. Either the employees get on board with Doug, or they had better get on board with the next guy.

fly4ever78 · Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:37 pm

musman9853 wrote:

making phone calls, haha. can't remember the last time i did that.

QHD OLED stands for QuadHD Organic Light Emitting Diode. OLEDS are on on the very best computers and TVs, and way better than the shitty LCDs that are used for ifes.

BTW... the IFE Delta is installing is a Hitachi tablet, mounted in a seat back. It's not a "shitty LCD" LOL

musman9853 · Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:06 pm

fly4ever78 wrote:
musman9853 wrote:

making phone calls, haha. can't remember the last time i did that.

QHD OLED stands for QuadHD Organic Light Emitting Diode. OLEDS are on on the very best computers and TVs, and way better than the shitty LCDs that are used for ifes.

BTW... the IFE Delta is installing is a Hitachi tablet, mounted in a seat back. It's not a "shitty LCD" LOL

all lcds are shitty, and I guarantee it's not an oled panel. and hitachi, that world reknowned tablet company, is somehow good now? All they're known for is heavy equipment and vibrators.

9w748capt · Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:17 pm

PA110 wrote:
Doug Parker is the primary reason things have gone downhill so far at AA. For all intents and purposes, he's replaced the last vestiges of AA's Flagship service with the utter blandness of US Airways. Having just flown to BUE and back from SCL in Premium Y, I was caught off guard by just how much service has declined. F/A's couldn't even be bothered to make eye contact during meal service. The best I could say for both flights was that the service was indifferent at best.

Yup. Dougie is too stupid to realize that destroying the main cabin product that most people fly in ruins the reputation of the entire airline. AA'a J class is decent, but who wants to get off an AA J flight and connect on Oasis? But penny pinching Dougie will never understand that. I'd like to see him hold his cell phone up for two hours straight next time he wants to watch a movie. If he could even fit in an AA economy minus seat, which I seriously doubt.

GSPSPOT · Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:18 pm

I for one enjoy the luxury of being able to enjoy content on the airline's system (visually handicapped though it may be to purists) without having one more personal item to deal with during the trip. DL manages to offer both (PTV and streaming content) on many flights.

9w748capt · Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:06 am

GSPSPOT wrote:
I for one enjoy the luxury of being able to enjoy content on the airline's system (visually handicapped though it may be to purists) without having one more personal item to deal with during the trip. DL manages to offer both (PTV and streaming content) on many flights.

Exactly. It's all about choice.

The ironic thing is I actually quite like AA's IFE content! Quite a wide variety of shows and movies. Randomly watched Kursk the other day - hadn't even heard of it until I saw it on AA. Surely something for everyone. But alas.

JAMBOJET · Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:54 am

9w748capt wrote:
PA110 wrote:
Doug Parker is the primary reason things have gone downhill so far at AA. For all intents and purposes, he's replaced the last vestiges of AA's Flagship service with the utter blandness of US Airways. Having just flown to BUE and back from SCL in Premium Y, I was caught off guard by just how much service has declined. F/A's couldn't even be bothered to make eye contact during meal service. The best I could say for both flights was that the service was indifferent at best.

Yup. Dougie is too stupid to realize that destroying the main cabin product that most people fly in ruins the reputation of the entire airline. AA'a J class is decent, but who wants to get off an AA J flight and connect on Oasis?

Probably the same people that get off a DL J flight and get on to a 717, MD88, or MD90 or all of Delta’s regional fleet. Let’s not pretend Delta has a consistent International > domestic product.
The better question is who wants to get off a Delta J flight and connect on to the industry’s smallest F legroom on basically any plane? Those 37” in Oasis look pretty spacious compared to many Delta narrowbodies.

Elementalism · Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:15 pm

musman9853 wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
Is DL's passenger demographic that much different than AA's? I find it bizarre that all of AA's data says people would rather watch movies on their 3 inch phones, while somehow DL's passengers strongly prefer built in IFE. Amazing to me that the US airline that's actually investing in it's product is also the most profitable. I mean that is just insane!

it's not 2010 anymore. My 6.8in QHD OLED phone, with literally the best screen in the world at that size, is faaar better than any ife system on any plane. Have fun watching a movie on a shitty 720 lcd panel.

Good for you, how many are in your position? Not many. Most prefer IFE. Including myself and I also have a nice phone. I use my phone for work on the plane and the IFE for entertainment. The whole BYOD has been movement in IT for over a decade with mixed results. And that is under a mostly controlled environment with company policy. Applying it to your customers is imo a foolish idea. It reeks of being cheap. Which works for ULCC crowd. Not one of the Big 3 trying to command a premium for their subpar product.

Elementalism · Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:18 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
PA110 wrote:
Doug Parker is the primary reason things have gone downhill so far at AA. For all intents and purposes, he's replaced the last vestiges of AA's Flagship service with the utter blandness of US Airways. Having just flown to BUE and back from SCL in Premium Y, I was caught off guard by just how much service has declined. F/A's couldn't even be bothered to make eye contact during meal service. The best I could say for both flights was that the service was indifferent at best.

Yup. Dougie is too stupid to realize that destroying the main cabin product that most people fly in ruins the reputation of the entire airline. AA'a J class is decent, but who wants to get off an AA J flight and connect on Oasis?

Probably the same people that get off a DL J flight and get on to a 717, MD88, or MD90 or all of Delta’s regional fleet. Let’s not pretend Delta has a consistent International > domestic product.
The better question is who wants to get off a Delta J flight and connect on to the industry’s smallest F legroom on basically any plane? Those 37” in Oasis look pretty spacious compared to many Delta narrowbodies.

MD88\90 being retired. 717 being upgraded.

OneX123 · Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:00 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
PA110 wrote:
Doug Parker is the primary reason things have gone downhill so far at AA. For all intents and purposes, he's replaced the last vestiges of AA's Flagship service with the utter blandness of US Airways. Having just flown to BUE and back from SCL in Premium Y, I was caught off guard by just how much service has declined. F/A's couldn't even be bothered to make eye contact during meal service. The best I could say for both flights was that the service was indifferent at best.

Yup. Dougie is too stupid to realize that destroying the main cabin product that most people fly in ruins the reputation of the entire airline. AA'a J class is decent, but who wants to get off an AA J flight and connect on Oasis?

Probably the same people that get off a DL J flight and get on to a 717, MD88, or MD90 or all of Delta’s regional fleet. Let’s not pretend Delta has a consistent International > domestic product.
The better question is who wants to get off a Delta J flight and connect on to the industry’s smallest F legroom on basically any plane? Those 37” in Oasis look pretty spacious compared to many Delta narrowbodies.

FWIW -- AA Domestic F on flights 700-900miles provides warm nuts and a 'light snack', i.e hummus and pita, spinach dip and pita, or fruit/nuts/cheese. On DL under 900miles you get a snack (similar to that in econ). I was disappointed to fly DL F on a morning departure MKE-ATL and get a kind bar.

FWIW also -- AA Platinum (equal to DL gold) can select Econ+ at ticket purchase and Econ+ in AA gets free booze. You can not select Econ+ on DL, only by upgrade, and if you're flying at peak times (Mon morning and Thursday afternoon) your chances of an upgrade are minimal in my experience.

I'm an AA Platinum and DL Platinum and I enjoy flying AA. Not that one is better than the other, but I'm an FF who flys them weekly out of ORD and I enjoy their product.

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