Elementalism wrote:

JAMBOJET wrote:

9w748capt wrote:

Yup. Dougie is too stupid to realize that destroying the main cabin product that most people fly in ruins the reputation of the entire airline. AA'a J class is decent, but who wants to get off an AA J flight and connect on Oasis?

Probably the same people that get off a DL J flight and get on to a 717, MD88, or MD90 or all of Delta’s regional fleet. Let’s not pretend Delta has a consistent International > domestic product.
The better question is who wants to get off a Delta J flight and connect on to the industry’s smallest F legroom on basically any plane? Those 37” in Oasis look pretty spacious compared to many Delta narrowbodies.

MD88\90 being retired. 717 being upgraded.

Elementalism wrote:

musman9853 wrote:

9w748capt wrote:

Is DL's passenger demographic that much different than AA's? I find it bizarre that all of AA's data says people would rather watch movies on their 3 inch phones, while somehow DL's passengers strongly prefer built in IFE. Amazing to me that the US airline that's actually investing in it's product is also the most profitable. I mean that is just insane!

it's not 2010 anymore. My 6.8in QHD OLED phone, with literally the best screen in the world at that size, is faaar better than any ife system on any plane. Have fun watching a movie on a shitty 720 lcd panel.

Good for you, how many are in your position? Not many. Most prefer IFE. Including myself and I also have a nice phone. I use my phone for work on the plane and the IFE for entertainment. The whole BYOD has been movement in IT for over a decade with mixed results. And that is under a mostly controlled environment with company policy. Applying it to your customers is imo a foolish idea. It reeks of being cheap. Which works for ULCC crowd. Not one of the Big 3 trying to command a premium for their subpar product.

musman9853 wrote:

Elementalism wrote:

musman9853 wrote:

it's not 2010 anymore. My 6.8in QHD OLED phone, with literally the best screen in the world at that size, is faaar better than any ife system on any plane. Have fun watching a movie on a shitty 720 lcd panel.

Good for you, how many are in your position? Not many. Most prefer IFE. Including myself and I also have a nice phone. I use my phone for work on the plane and the IFE for entertainment. The whole BYOD has been movement in IT for over a decade with mixed results. And that is under a mostly controlled environment with company policy. Applying it to your customers is imo a foolish idea. It reeks of being cheap. Which works for ULCC crowd. Not one of the Big 3 trying to command a premium for their subpar product.

I'm gen z. I'd wager among my cohort it would be the majority. And it's not like AA doesn't have IFE, it's just streaming IFE which works perfectly fine. I recognize that among older generations that this attitude is not common. But tech advances at a much more rapid pace than anything mounted in a plane. Earlier people were bragging about hitachi tablets in the new DL a220s. Those are fine, but not amazing. And they'll be there for years, if not decades. What are they gonna do in a couple years when everyone is walking around with 120hz displays that makes 60fps displays something out of the dark ages? Try as hard as an airline can, they simply cannot match the pace of innovation in the consumer market. Mounted IFEs, in my opinion, are folly. I certainly agree that there are many things AA is doing wrong. No Mounted IFE is not one of them.

DoctorVenkman wrote:

musman9853 wrote:

Elementalism wrote:

Good for you, how many are in your position? Not many. Most prefer IFE. Including myself and I also have a nice phone. I use my phone for work on the plane and the IFE for entertainment. The whole BYOD has been movement in IT for over a decade with mixed results. And that is under a mostly controlled environment with company policy. Applying it to your customers is imo a foolish idea. It reeks of being cheap. Which works for ULCC crowd. Not one of the Big 3 trying to command a premium for their subpar product.

I'm gen z. I'd wager among my cohort it would be the majority. And it's not like AA doesn't have IFE, it's just streaming IFE which works perfectly fine. I recognize that among older generations that this attitude is not common. But tech advances at a much more rapid pace than anything mounted in a plane. Earlier people were bragging about hitachi tablets in the new DL a220s. Those are fine, but not amazing. And they'll be there for years, if not decades. What are they gonna do in a couple years when everyone is walking around with 120hz displays that makes 60fps displays something out of the dark ages? Try as hard as an airline can, they simply cannot match the pace of innovation in the consumer market. Mounted IFEs, in my opinion, are folly. I certainly agree that there are many things AA is doing wrong. No Mounted IFE is not one of them.

Displays at this point have reached the limits of the human eye. Humans have been tested and cannot perceive any difference beyond ~150fps. Even then the difference between 60fps and 150fps is pretty small since there are diminishing returns on the value of extra fps. You would really need to be focusing hard on a high-quality screen to notice the difference between 60fps and 150fps.

In terms of resultion, at a viewing distance of 18" the human eye can only perceive about 430 pixels per inch. This means that a 10" 4k display is at the limits of human perception from 18" of viewing. If you view from a bit further away - let's say 30" (more realistic for an airplane), then a 10" 1080P display is at the limit of human perception.

TL;DR is that displays are already at the limit of human perception. If airlines started installing screens now, they would not be "something out of the dark ages" within a few years. You would hardly be able to tell the difference.

musman9853 wrote:

Elementalism wrote:

musman9853 wrote:

it's not 2010 anymore. My 6.8in QHD OLED phone, with literally the best screen in the world at that size, is faaar better than any ife system on any plane. Have fun watching a movie on a shitty 720 lcd panel.

Good for you, how many are in your position? Not many. Most prefer IFE. Including myself and I also have a nice phone. I use my phone for work on the plane and the IFE for entertainment. The whole BYOD has been movement in IT for over a decade with mixed results. And that is under a mostly controlled environment with company policy. Applying it to your customers is imo a foolish idea. It reeks of being cheap. Which works for ULCC crowd. Not one of the Big 3 trying to command a premium for their subpar product.

I'm gen z. I'd wager among my cohort it would be the majority. And it's not like AA doesn't have IFE, it's just streaming IFE which works perfectly fine. I recognize that among older generations that this attitude is not common. But tech advances at a much more rapid pace than anything mounted in a plane. Earlier people were bragging about hitachi tablets in the new DL a220s. Those are fine, but not amazing. And they'll be there for years, if not decades. What are they gonna do in a couple years when everyone is walking around with 120hz displays that makes 60fps displays something out of the dark ages? Try as hard as an airline can, they simply cannot match the pace of innovation in the consumer market. Mounted IFEs, in my opinion, are folly. I certainly agree that there are many things AA is doing wrong. No Mounted IFE is not one of them.

Miamiairport wrote:

To me if there's insufficient time to watch a movie then having AVOD is mute.

DoctorVenkman wrote:

musman9853 wrote:

Elementalism wrote:

Good for you, how many are in your position? Not many. Most prefer IFE. Including myself and I also have a nice phone. I use my phone for work on the plane and the IFE for entertainment. The whole BYOD has been movement in IT for over a decade with mixed results. And that is under a mostly controlled environment with company policy. Applying it to your customers is imo a foolish idea. It reeks of being cheap. Which works for ULCC crowd. Not one of the Big 3 trying to command a premium for their subpar product.

I'm gen z. I'd wager among my cohort it would be the majority. And it's not like AA doesn't have IFE, it's just streaming IFE which works perfectly fine. I recognize that among older generations that this attitude is not common. But tech advances at a much more rapid pace than anything mounted in a plane. Earlier people were bragging about hitachi tablets in the new DL a220s. Those are fine, but not amazing. And they'll be there for years, if not decades. What are they gonna do in a couple years when everyone is walking around with 120hz displays that makes 60fps displays something out of the dark ages? Try as hard as an airline can, they simply cannot match the pace of innovation in the consumer market. Mounted IFEs, in my opinion, are folly. I certainly agree that there are many things AA is doing wrong. No Mounted IFE is not one of them.

Displays at this point have reached the limits of the human eye. Humans have been tested and cannot perceive any difference beyond ~150fps. Even then the difference between 60fps and 150fps is pretty small since there are diminishing returns on the value of extra fps. You would really need to be focusing hard on a high-quality screen to notice the difference between 60fps and 150fps.

sorry, did not mean fps, i meant hz as in refresh rate. High refresh rate devices have obviously better screens. the ipad pro with its 120hz display is a lot better than eny of its competitors, which ships with 60hz displays. that higher refresh rate is very noticeable.
In terms of resultion, at a viewing distance of 18" the human eye can only perceive about 430 pixels per inch. This means that a 10" 4k display is at the limits of human perception from 18" of viewing. If you view from a bit further away - let's say 30" (more realistic for an airplane), then a 10" 1080P display is at the limit of human perception.

TL;DR is that displays are already at the limit of human perception. If airlines started installing screens now, they would not be "something out of the dark ages" within a few years. You would hardly be able to tell the difference.

Cactusjuba wrote:

musman9853 wrote:

Elementalism wrote:

Good for you, how many are in your position? Not many. Most prefer IFE. Including myself and I also have a nice phone. I use my phone for work on the plane and the IFE for entertainment. The whole BYOD has been movement in IT for over a decade with mixed results. And that is under a mostly controlled environment with company policy. Applying it to your customers is imo a foolish idea. It reeks of being cheap. Which works for ULCC crowd. Not one of the Big 3 trying to command a premium for their subpar product.

I'm gen z. I'd wager among my cohort it would be the majority. And it's not like AA doesn't have IFE, it's just streaming IFE which works perfectly fine. I recognize that among older generations that this attitude is not common. But tech advances at a much more rapid pace than anything mounted in a plane. Earlier people were bragging about hitachi tablets in the new DL a220s. Those are fine, but not amazing. And they'll be there for years, if not decades. What are they gonna do in a couple years when everyone is walking around with 120hz displays that makes 60fps displays something out of the dark ages? Try as hard as an airline can, they simply cannot match the pace of innovation in the consumer market. Mounted IFEs, in my opinion, are folly. I certainly agree that there are many things AA is doing wrong. No Mounted IFE is not one of them.

The newer WIFI streaming PTVs on DL's newer interiors (A220, 330-900, 767-400, 321NEO), they are designed for what you speak, future upgrades. They can literally go to a single seat and line replace a screen in minutes if it's defective. Likewise, as computer/display tech advances so quickly, updating the PTVs for an entire airplane can be done overnight or two when it is down for routine maintenance. The screens won't be flying around for decades.

musman9853 wrote:

Cactusjuba wrote:

musman9853 wrote:

I'm gen z. I'd wager among my cohort it would be the majority. And it's not like AA doesn't have IFE, it's just streaming IFE which works perfectly fine. I recognize that among older generations that this attitude is not common. But tech advances at a much more rapid pace than anything mounted in a plane. Earlier people were bragging about hitachi tablets in the new DL a220s. Those are fine, but not amazing. And they'll be there for years, if not decades. What are they gonna do in a couple years when everyone is walking around with 120hz displays that makes 60fps displays something out of the dark ages? Try as hard as an airline can, they simply cannot match the pace of innovation in the consumer market. Mounted IFEs, in my opinion, are folly. I certainly agree that there are many things AA is doing wrong. No Mounted IFE is not one of them.

The newer WIFI streaming PTVs on DL's newer interiors (A220, 330-900, 767-400, 321NEO), they are designed for what you speak, future upgrades. They can literally go to a single seat and line replace a screen in minutes if it's defective. Likewise, as computer/display tech advances so quickly, updating the PTVs for an entire airplane can be done overnight or two when it is down for routine maintenance. The screens won't be flying around for decades.

even if they're replaced regularly, they're still gonna be behind consumer displays. I don't think delta is gonna spend 500 dollars per seat every year to upgrade to the latest OLED panels.

DoctorVenkman wrote:

musman9853 wrote:

Cactusjuba wrote:

The newer WIFI streaming PTVs on DL's newer interiors (A220, 330-900, 767-400, 321NEO), they are designed for what you speak, future upgrades. They can literally go to a single seat and line replace a screen in minutes if it's defective. Likewise, as computer/display tech advances so quickly, updating the PTVs for an entire airplane can be done overnight or two when it is down for routine maintenance. The screens won't be flying around for decades.

even if they're replaced regularly, they're still gonna be behind consumer displays. I don't think delta is gonna spend 500 dollars per seat every year to upgrade to the latest OLED panels.

I don't think you understand what we've been saying. At the screen size and viewing distance we are talking about, you will not be able to perceive any difference. Maybe on a huge 70" TV, or a 30" gaming monitor you sit 18" from, you would be able to see a small improvement year over year. But on a 8-12" IFE display we've essentially reached the limit of the human eye already.

910A wrote:

I noticed Parker didn't mention one word regarding the guest experience onboard one of his company's planes..

musman9853 wrote:

Elementalism wrote:

musman9853 wrote:

it's not 2010 anymore. My 6.8in QHD OLED phone, with literally the best screen in the world at that size, is faaar better than any ife system on any plane. Have fun watching a movie on a shitty 720 lcd panel.

Good for you, how many are in your position? Not many. Most prefer IFE. Including myself and I also have a nice phone. I use my phone for work on the plane and the IFE for entertainment. The whole BYOD has been movement in IT for over a decade with mixed results. And that is under a mostly controlled environment with company policy. Applying it to your customers is imo a foolish idea. It reeks of being cheap. Which works for ULCC crowd. Not one of the Big 3 trying to command a premium for their subpar product.

I'm gen z. I'd wager among my cohort it would be the majority. And it's not like AA doesn't have IFE, it's just streaming IFE which works perfectly fine. I recognize that among older generations that this attitude is not common. But tech advances at a much more rapid pace than anything mounted in a plane. Earlier people were bragging about hitachi tablets in the new DL a220s. Those are fine, but not amazing. And they'll be there for years, if not decades. What are they gonna do in a couple years when everyone is walking around with 120hz displays that makes 60fps displays something out of the dark ages? Try as hard as an airline can, they simply cannot match the pace of innovation in the consumer market. Mounted IFEs, in my opinion, are folly. I certainly agree that there are many things AA is doing wrong. No Mounted IFE is not one of them.

global2 wrote:

musman9853 wrote:

Elementalism wrote:

Good for you, how many are in your position? Not many. Most prefer IFE. Including myself and I also have a nice phone. I use my phone for work on the plane and the IFE for entertainment. The whole BYOD has been movement in IT for over a decade with mixed results. And that is under a mostly controlled environment with company policy. Applying it to your customers is imo a foolish idea. It reeks of being cheap. Which works for ULCC crowd. Not one of the Big 3 trying to command a premium for their subpar product.

I'm gen z. I'd wager among my cohort it would be the majority. And it's not like AA doesn't have IFE, it's just streaming IFE which works perfectly fine. I recognize that among older generations that this attitude is not common. But tech advances at a much more rapid pace than anything mounted in a plane. Earlier people were bragging about hitachi tablets in the new DL a220s. Those are fine, but not amazing. And they'll be there for years, if not decades. What are they gonna do in a couple years when everyone is walking around with 120hz displays that makes 60fps displays something out of the dark ages? Try as hard as an airline can, they simply cannot match the pace of innovation in the consumer market. Mounted IFEs, in my opinion, are folly. I certainly agree that there are many things AA is doing wrong. No Mounted IFE is not one of them.

..."Those are fine, but not amazing". . I don't necessarily need amazing on a flight. I would just like the option to turn on the TV and not have to try and substitute that with the 3" screen on my phone, worry about plugging in chargers, or taking up my entire tray table space with a laptop which I'm going to have to dig out of my carry on bag that's in the overhead and put back again when it's time to land. I'm a million miler on AAdvantage, but I applaud Delta for aiming to differentiate themselves in terms of investing in the customer experience and for thinking out of the box by developing their tablet based IFE which is both lighter than conventional systems and also easier to upgrade/change out as technology advances.

ual763 wrote:

910A wrote:

I noticed Parker didn't mention one word regarding the guest experience onboard one of his company's planes..

Wonder how many people comparing AA to Frontier/Spirit have actually flown AA recently? To be honest, I was just on two of their aircraft today. After how horrible everyone makes them out to be, I was actually rather pleasantly surprised. Nice, brand new seats (which were actually more comfortable than the seats on the Delta flight I was on last week), clean as hell, and a big nice new IFED in the back of the seats. This was in regular old economy mind you. FAs were nice, got the Biscoff (was offered 2) and a whole can of pop! It was a nice flight.

9w748capt wrote:

ual763 wrote:

910A wrote:

I noticed Parker didn't mention one word regarding the guest experience onboard one of his company's planes..

Wonder how many people comparing AA to Frontier/Spirit have actually flown AA recently? To be honest, I was just on two of their aircraft today. After how horrible everyone makes them out to be, I was actually rather pleasantly surprised. Nice, brand new seats (which were actually more comfortable than the seats on the Delta flight I was on last week), clean as hell, and a big nice new IFED in the back of the seats. This was in regular old economy mind you. FAs were nice, got the Biscoff (was offered 2) and a whole can of pop! It was a nice flight.

Just curious, which route and which a/c? That's the thing - AA can be good. Their widebodies are comfortable enough (well maybe not in Y), but I love AA's 77W J class, for example. The LAA 321s with actual comfortable seats and in-seat IFE are excellent planes to fly on, even in Y. But AA is going to actively destroy their product. They're going to remove ALL PTVs and Oasis ALL interiors. They actually have a decent product on some of their mainline fleet, but Dougie and Isom see no value in actually providing their customers a good product. That's the problem. It's incredible to me that AA is going to spend millions of dollars - to make their product worse! Who in their right mind thinks that's a good idea? Why fix what ain't broke?

ual763 wrote:

9w748capt wrote:

ual763 wrote:

Wonder how many people comparing AA to Frontier/Spirit have actually flown AA recently? To be honest, I was just on two of their aircraft today. After how horrible everyone makes them out to be, I was actually rather pleasantly surprised. Nice, brand new seats (which were actually more comfortable than the seats on the Delta flight I was on last week), clean as hell, and a big nice new IFED in the back of the seats. This was in regular old economy mind you. FAs were nice, got the Biscoff (was offered 2) and a whole can of pop! It was a nice flight.

Just curious, which route and which a/c? That's the thing - AA can be good. Their widebodies are comfortable enough (well maybe not in Y), but I love AA's 77W J class, for example. The LAA 321s with actual comfortable seats and in-seat IFE are excellent planes to fly on, even in Y. But AA is going to actively destroy their product. They're going to remove ALL PTVs and Oasis ALL interiors. They actually have a decent product on some of their mainline fleet, but Dougie and Isom see no value in actually providing their customers a good product. That's the problem. It's incredible to me that AA is going to spend millions of dollars - to make their product worse! Who in their right mind thinks that's a good idea? Why fix what ain't broke?

It was an Envoy E175 TUL-DFW, and then a mainline A319 DFW-IAD this morning

musman9853 wrote:

fly4ever78 wrote:

musman9853 wrote:

making phone calls, haha. can't remember the last time i did that.

QHD OLED stands for QuadHD Organic Light Emitting Diode. OLEDS are on on the very best computers and TVs, and way better than the shitty LCDs that are used for ifes.

BTW... the IFE Delta is installing is a Hitachi tablet, mounted in a seat back. It's not a "shitty LCD" LOL

all lcds are shitty, and I guarantee it's not an oled panel. and hitachi, that world reknowned tablet company, is somehow good now? All they're known for is heavy equipment and vibrators.

9w748capt wrote:

ual763 wrote:

910A wrote:

I noticed Parker didn't mention one word regarding the guest experience onboard one of his company's planes..

Wonder how many people comparing AA to Frontier/Spirit have actually flown AA recently? To be honest, I was just on two of their aircraft today. After how horrible everyone makes them out to be, I was actually rather pleasantly surprised. Nice, brand new seats (which were actually more comfortable than the seats on the Delta flight I was on last week), clean as hell, and a big nice new IFED in the back of the seats. This was in regular old economy mind you. FAs were nice, got the Biscoff (was offered 2) and a whole can of pop! It was a nice flight.

Just curious, which route and which a/c? That's the thing - AA can be good. Their widebodies are comfortable enough (well maybe not in Y), but I love AA's 77W J class, for example. The LAA 321s with actual comfortable seats and in-seat IFE are excellent planes to fly on, even in Y. But AA is going to actively destroy their product. They're going to remove ALL PTVs and Oasis ALL interiors. They actually have a decent product on some of their mainline fleet, but Dougie and Isom see no value in actually providing their customers a good product. That's the problem. It's incredible to me that AA is going to spend millions of dollars - to make their product worse! Who in their right mind thinks that's a good idea? Why fix what ain't broke?

fly4ever78 wrote:

musman9853 wrote:

fly4ever78 wrote:

BTW... the IFE Delta is installing is a Hitachi tablet, mounted in a seat back. It's not a "shitty LCD" LOL

all lcds are shitty, and I guarantee it's not an oled panel. and hitachi, that world reknowned tablet company, is somehow good now? All they're known for is heavy equipment and vibrators.

Thanks for all these stunning revelations.