Agrajag
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Aeroflot future plans following significant 787 cancelled order.

Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:40 pm

Was this due to over ording, politics, bit of both?

Does anyone know what their plans are?

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... eamliners4:
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Asiaflyer
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Re: Aeroflot future plans following significant 787 cancelled order.

Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:48 pm

They went for A350 instead. This was announced by Aeroflot long ago but haven’t hit Boeing’s order book until now.
No big deal IMO.
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ikolkyo
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Re: Aeroflot future plans following significant 787 cancelled order.

Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:28 pm

These orders have been “cancelled” for years. Just now became a official after all this time I guess.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Aeroflot future plans following significant 787 cancelled order.

Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:30 pm

It was a 2007 order that was long known not to become reality.
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Prost
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Re: Aeroflot future plans following significant 787 cancelled order.

Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:56 pm

From the article:
The lost order is a cause for concern in Everett because the 787 backlog is dwindling fast as the company aims to roll out the planes at a rate of 14 jets per month.

Boeing has been seeking new 787 orders to ensure it can maintain that high production rate, which is now critically important with the cash flow from the 737 MAX blocked by that jet’s grounding.


I wonder how motivated Boeing is to cut some deals?
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Aeroflot future plans following significant 787 cancelled order.

Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:19 pm

Agrajag wrote:
Was this due to over ording, politics, bit of both?

Does anyone know what their plans are?

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... eamliners4:

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... eamliners/
You link had issues, corrected.
 
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ODwyerPW
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Re: Aeroflot future plans following significant 787 cancelled order.

Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:21 pm

I still think Mom will be a re-worked 787.... a second shot at a much better 787-3.... That will keep the line humming.
learning never stops.
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Aeroflot future plans following significant 787 cancelled order.

Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:39 pm

Boeing doesn't fill production slots with orders that will never be delivered, so the damage was already done several years ago when Aeroflot decided that they wouldn't take them. Although there were plans to transfer the order to a leasing company, which could have resulted in deliveries for Boeing. That has now completely fallen through of course, so that's not good. But then again, if the market wants these planes they will reach the airlines via direct orders or via different leasing companies.

For Aeroflot the A350 will be perfect plane for both replacement and growth. Both the 787 and A350 where ordered in 2007, after such a long time it's not that strange that orders are being reconsidered, and they choose the A350 for their future expansion.
 
musman9853
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Re: Aeroflot future plans following significant 787 cancelled order.

Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:51 pm

ODwyerPW wrote:
I still think Mom will be a re-worked 787.... a second shot at a much better 787-3.... That will keep the line humming.


while quite off topic, we've known the rough specs of NMA for a long time. A short 2-3-2 Ovoid. 50k lbfs engines. 2 sizes, like 250/300 ish iirc
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marcogr12
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Re: Aeroflot future plans following significant 787 cancelled order.

Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:57 pm

I read that they are planning to retire their A330s...But if they do that, won't the gap between their A320 series and the A350s be too big?
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workhorse
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Re: Aeroflot future plans following significant 787 cancelled order.

Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:10 pm

Agrajag wrote:
Was this due to over ording, politics, bit of both?

Does anyone know what their plans are?


It was a bit of both. To make it short, originally, Aeroflot wanted to order 22 B787s (the 787 was the hottest girl in town then while the A350 was only a drawing on a napkin at that point). Then the government told them to order 22 A350s because at that time Russian government was courting Europe. Aeroflot's business was booming then so they said "Oh, nevermind, let's order 22 of both, we'll need a lot of planes anyway."

Then came 2014 and the Ukraine crisis. Aeroflot was told to cancel the 787 as retaliation against the USA. Which they did. That this cancellation hits the books only now just shows us how slow and complicated the process of cancelling an airplane order can be.

Otherwise, the world is a very different place now, so the 22 A350s they have on order are more than enough.
 
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A321Lufthansa
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Re: Aeroflot future plans following significant 787 cancelled order.

Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:34 pm

workhorse wrote:
Agrajag wrote:
Was this due to over ording, politics, bit of both?

Does anyone know what their plans are?


It was a bit of both. To make it short, originally, Aeroflot wanted to order 22 B787s (the 787 was the hottest girl in town then while the A350 was only a drawing on a napkin at that point). Then the government told them to order 22 A350s because at that time Russian government was courting Europe. Aeroflot's business was booming then so they said "Oh, nevermind, let's order 22 of both, we'll need a lot of planes anyway."

Then came 2014 and the Ukraine crisis. Aeroflot was told to cancel the 787 as retaliation against the USA. Which they did. That this cancellation hits the books only now just shows us how slow and complicated the process of cancelling an airplane order can be.

Otherwise, the world is a very different place now, so the 22 A350s they have on order are more than enough.

They ordered then some more A350s and now they have 28 on order.
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workhorse
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Re: Aeroflot future plans following significant 787 cancelled order.

Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:18 pm

A321Lufthansa wrote:
They ordered then some more A350s and now they have 28 on order.


Oh, yes, you're right, forgot about those 6. So they'll were ordered some time after the 787 "cancellation" to partly compensate for it. As we can see, the needs of new fleet have been scaled back quite a bit.
 
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ODwyerPW
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Re: Aeroflot future plans following significant 787 cancelled order.

Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:55 pm

musman9853 wrote:
ODwyerPW wrote:
I still think Mom will be a re-worked 787.... a second shot at a much better 787-3.... That will keep the line humming.

while quite off topic, we've known the rough specs of NMA for a long time. A short 2-3-2 Ovoid. 50k lbfs engines. 2 sizes, like 250/300 ish iirc

Yeah, and they still haven't closed the case and aren't going to build it. A pared won 787 and the 737-10 are going to occupy that space... Watch.

Back on topic, most of us never thought Aeroflot was going to take those planes... what 12 years later?
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DWC
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Re: Aeroflot future plans following significant 787 cancelled order.

Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:59 pm

marcogr12 wrote:
I read that they are planning to retire their A330s...But if they do that, won't the gap between their A320 series and the A350s be too big?

That is a big gap indeed.
Perhaps they plan to order the C929, first flight scheduled for 2025, and deliveries from 2027, if they keep the timeline.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRAIC_CR929
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Aeroflot future plans following significant 787 cancelled order.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:29 am

DWC wrote:
marcogr12 wrote:
I read that they are planning to retire their A330s...But if they do that, won't the gap between their A320 series and the A350s be too big?

That is a big gap indeed.
Perhaps they plan to order the C929, first flight scheduled for 2025, and deliveries from 2027, if they keep the timeline.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRAIC_CR929



This gap is not substantially different to what they would have with 789s coming into the fleet anyway.

And it not as much an issue as it may look to some. Many of their regional and midhaul 330 deployments will likely be replaced with 321 or 321NEOs.

If they need an inter-sized capacity between a 321 and a 359, there is always the option of 339s as well.
Or... simply delaying the retirement of their 332s.

They do have also the MC-21 on order. While perfomance is not quite to 321 standards, the reliability is not known either. It could, however, add the capacity and frequency needed to (theoretically) unload the 332s.

For SU's needs, this is really not a problem spot.
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scbriml
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Re: Aeroflot future plans following significant 787 cancelled order.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:49 am

A321Lufthansa wrote:
They ordered then some more A350s and now they have 28 on order.


Airbus only list 14 x A359 for Aeroflot, are the other 14 coming from lessors?
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DCA350
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Re: Aeroflot future plans following significant 787 cancelled order.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:10 am

scbriml wrote:
A321Lufthansa wrote:
They ordered then some more A350s and now they have 28 on order.


Airbus only list 14 x A359 for Aeroflot, are the other 14 coming from lessors?


It has been a rumour for a while but nothing official. With the 787 cancellation now on the books maybe they will confirm an A350 expansion.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reu ... SKBN1JZ0U9
 
travelhound
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Re: Aeroflot future plans following significant 787 cancelled order.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:12 am

If I remember correctly, the Aeroflot 787 order was to be transferred to a leasing entity.

It could be the case Aeroflot's lease agreement for A350's could be linked to the leasing entities making additional commitments for Boeing aircraft.

If not Aeroflot may have decided to report a loss on deposits/penalties associated with the order (i.e. Aeroflot may have written off deposits over several years).

This is normal business for airlines
 
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conaly
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Re: Aeroflot future plans following significant 787 cancelled order.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:38 pm

Interestingly, they are not only planning to retire their A330s, also the 77Ws will be phased out sooner or later. It seems they are already looking into the B779 and A35K as a replacement.
https://www.aero.de/news-32759/Aeroflot ... liner.html (German source)

I believe they have a fixed time leasing contract and don't want to extend that one, so they are rather looking for new types.
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