dcajet
Topic Author
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Bolivia bans older 737s at La Paz LPB

Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:55 pm

Bolivia's regulator, DGAC, has banned the operation of older versions of the 737 (anything prior to the 600 series) at La Paz's El Alto airport. The measure, effective immediately, follows 3 landing incidents. These include the landing-gear collapse of an arriving Peruvian 737-500, a 1990-built aircraft, in November last year. The DGAC is probing a serious 3 August incident in which a 737-300 of Bolivian carrier BoA – a 1997 airframe – experienced "strong vibration" after the fracture of a main landing-gear shimmy damper. It has also listed a similar shimmy-damper damage incident which affected another 1997-built BoA 737-300 during landing on 7 March.

The DGAC has not clarified whether the particular conditions at El Alto – one of the highest-elevation airports in the world, situated at an altitude of more than 4,000m – are behind this specific restriction. BoA will be affected considerably with this decision.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ts-461385/
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dcajet
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Re: Bolivia bans older 737s at La Paz LPB

Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:27 pm

LOT767301ER wrote:
I wonder if these places realize they are 3rd world solely because of how they act or are they completely oblivious to their stupidity when it comes to this stuff.


Care to expand your thought?
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
Q
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2000 10:29 am

Re: Bolivia bans older 737s at La Paz LPB

Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:00 pm

They should get some new or lease or second hand Airbus 319 most Chinese airlines A319 can land in Lhasa highest elevation.

Q
 
dcajet
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Re: Bolivia bans older 737s at La Paz LPB

Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:03 pm

Q wrote:
They should get some new or lease or second hand Airbus 319 most Chinese airlines A319 can land in Lhasa highest elevation.

Q


Boliviana de Aviacion also operates the 73G and 800 variants. I believe other Bolivian airlines (Amaszonas and Ecojet) do not operate 737s.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
KFTG
Posts: 318
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Re: Bolivia bans older 737s at La Paz LPB

Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:16 am

Landing gear, when properly maintained, tends to not collapse.
737s, when properly flown, tend to not crash.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Bolivia bans older 737s at La Paz LPB

Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:01 am

La Paz presents a unique set of challenges to local operators. Density altitudes there can easily reach the 15,000+ ft.

Airplanes that operate regularly there tend to land 30 to 40 kts faster than their sea-level-dweller counterparts. This would put a lot more stress on the gears and wheel assemblies than most other airplanes.

Whereas manufacturers have certified these aircraft for operation in this environment, I'm really unsure whether the long term effects of such is fully analysed and whether the regular inspection and service schedule would be enough to catch some of the parts fatigue that these olders frames seem to be experiencing.

Some countries like to ban some airplanes outright as a bandaid to try and cover gross underlying operational deficiencies, but in this case, and considering the recent spate of incidents and the lack of obvious cause for them, grounding these older frames until more is understood might not be so daft.

A quick look at the AVHerald entries and especially the pictures that go with them is quite interesting. Most the touchdowns on these incidents have been reported as smooth and in good weather. the pics clearly show landing gear part failures, and I'll be damned if I blamed that straight away on poor maintenance, As I said above, there is no evidence so far that proper servicing wasn't following according the the book.

We won't know for a while, but I maintain that regular operation at this density altitude might have an unknown aging effect on landing gears, especially on frames of that age, that normal maintenance schedule might not be enough to catch.

http://avherald.com/h?article=4c523c43&opt=0
http://avherald.com/h?article=4c09c1d0&opt=0
http://avherald.com/h?article=4b08148d&opt=0
http://avherald.com/h?article=4cb2f8d2&opt=0

Not that this will prevent those who like to form quick, biased and bigoted opinions from slagging away... obviously.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
COSPN
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Re: Bolivia bans older 737s at La Paz LPB

Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:48 pm

The US Government has banned the 747-200 from their bases worldwide (except AF1) so that was a game changer for the operators ; of course they gave plenty of notice to the operators
 
dcajet
Topic Author
Posts: 4299
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Bolivia bans older 737s at La Paz LPB

Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:02 pm

Francoflier wrote:
La Paz presents a unique set of challenges to local operators. Density altitudes there can easily reach the 15,000+ ft.

Airplanes that operate regularly there tend to land 30 to 40 kts faster than their sea-level-dweller counterparts. This would put a lot more stress on the gears and wheel assemblies than most other airplanes.

Whereas manufacturers have certified these aircraft for operation in this environment, I'm really unsure whether the long term effects of such is fully analysed and whether the regular inspection and service schedule would be enough to catch some of the parts fatigue that these olders frames seem to be experiencing.

Some countries like to ban some airplanes outright as a bandaid to try and cover gross underlying operational deficiencies, but in this case, and considering the recent spate of incidents and the lack of obvious cause for them, grounding these older frames until more is understood might not be so daft.

A quick look at the AVHerald entries and especially the pictures that go with them is quite interesting. Most the touchdowns on these incidents have been reported as smooth and in good weather. the pics clearly show landing gear part failures, and I'll be damned if I blamed that straight away on poor maintenance, As I said above, there is no evidence so far that proper servicing wasn't following according the the book.

We won't know for a while, but I maintain that regular operation at this density altitude might have an unknown aging effect on landing gears, especially on frames of that age, that normal maintenance schedule might not be enough to catch.

http://avherald.com/h?article=4c523c43&opt=0
http://avherald.com/h?article=4c09c1d0&opt=0
http://avherald.com/h?article=4b08148d&opt=0
http://avherald.com/h?article=4cb2f8d2&opt=0

Not that this will prevent those who like to form quick, biased and bigoted opinions from slagging away... obviously.


Thanks for the insight. Bolivia has to have one of the most challenging operating geographical environments for airlines out there. It should be noted too that Bolivian airlines such as the defunct LAB and BoA now have earned over the years a reputation for excellence operating in such demanding conditions.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
dunappa
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:08 am

Re: Bolivia bans older 737s at La Paz LPB

Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:02 pm

dcajet wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
La Paz presents a unique set of challenges to local operators. Density altitudes there can easily reach the 15,000+ ft.

Airplanes that operate regularly there tend to land 30 to 40 kts faster than their sea-level-dweller counterparts. This would put a lot more stress on the gears and wheel assemblies than most other airplanes.

Whereas manufacturers have certified these aircraft for operation in this environment, I'm really unsure whether the long term effects of such is fully analysed and whether the regular inspection and service schedule would be enough to catch some of the parts fatigue that these olders frames seem to be experiencing.

Some countries like to ban some airplanes outright as a bandaid to try and cover gross underlying operational deficiencies, but in this case, and considering the recent spate of incidents and the lack of obvious cause for them, grounding these older frames until more is understood might not be so daft.

A quick look at the AVHerald entries and especially the pictures that go with them is quite interesting. Most the touchdowns on these incidents have been reported as smooth and in good weather. the pics clearly show landing gear part failures, and I'll be damned if I blamed that straight away on poor maintenance, As I said above, there is no evidence so far that proper servicing wasn't following according the the book.

We won't know for a while, but I maintain that regular operation at this density altitude might have an unknown aging effect on landing gears, especially on frames of that age, that normal maintenance schedule might not be enough to catch.

http://avherald.com/h?article=4c523c43&opt=0
http://avherald.com/h?article=4c09c1d0&opt=0
http://avherald.com/h?article=4b08148d&opt=0
http://avherald.com/h?article=4cb2f8d2&opt=0

Not that this will prevent those who like to form quick, biased and bigoted opinions from slagging away... obviously.


Thanks for the insight. Bolivia has to have one of the most challenging operating geographical environments for airlines out there. It should be noted too that Bolivian airlines such as the defunct LAB and BoA now have earned over the years a reputation for excellence operating in such demanding conditions.

Boeing has actually indicated as much a couple of weeks ago: https://www.lostiempos.com/actualidad/e ... -naves-boa (link in spanish)

I get to fly down to Bolivia quite often and have done quite a lot of flying on BoA and have never felt unsafe flying them.

They've been trying to replace most of their 737 Classic fleet for a couple of years now, though while they have received about 6 NGs, most of the classics have stuck around for now and won't be gone until at least 2021. They are receiving 3 more NGs by the end of the year, so I don't think it's gonna be that much of a deal to re-allocate some of their NGs to El Alto flying - at least from an ops standpoint, efficiency is another story.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3443
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Bolivia bans older 737s at La Paz LPB

Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:33 pm

Francoflier wrote:
La Paz presents a unique set of challenges to local operators. Density altitudes there can easily reach the 15,000+ ft.

Airplanes that operate regularly there tend to land 30 to 40 kts faster than their sea-level-dweller counterparts. This would put a lot more stress on the gears and wheel assemblies than most other airplanes.

Whereas manufacturers have certified these aircraft for operation in this environment, I'm really unsure whether the long term effects of such is fully analysed and whether the regular inspection and service schedule would be enough to catch some of the parts fatigue that these olders frames seem to be experiencing.

Some countries like to ban some airplanes outright as a bandaid to try and cover gross underlying operational deficiencies, but in this case, and considering the recent spate of incidents and the lack of obvious cause for them, grounding these older frames until more is understood might not be so daft.

A quick look at the AVHerald entries and especially the pictures that go with them is quite interesting. Most the touchdowns on these incidents have been reported as smooth and in good weather. the pics clearly show landing gear part failures, and I'll be damned if I blamed that straight away on poor maintenance, As I said above, there is no evidence so far that proper servicing wasn't following according the the book.

We won't know for a while, but I maintain that regular operation at this density altitude might have an unknown aging effect on landing gears, especially on frames of that age, that normal maintenance schedule might not be enough to catch.

http://avherald.com/h?article=4c523c43&opt=0
http://avherald.com/h?article=4c09c1d0&opt=0
http://avherald.com/h?article=4b08148d&opt=0
http://avherald.com/h?article=4cb2f8d2&opt=0

Not that this will prevent those who like to form quick, biased and bigoted opinions from slagging away... obviously.



Sorry but a 1997 build 737-300/500 series should only have those issues if the airline does no maintain them correctly. In that xcase they should ban all that airlines planes because the 737-800 could have the same poor maintenance issue. It's as bad as Malaysia banning perfectly good F100's because they were more than I believe 15 years old. The age has nothing to do with them being safe to fly, the maintanence does.
 
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Spiderguy252
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Re: Bolivia bans older 737s at La Paz LPB

Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:51 pm

The 737 bad news train never ends.
Vahroone
 
SouthAmericaAM
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Re: Bolivia bans older 737s at La Paz LPB

Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:15 pm

Last week, the bolivian airline Ecojet (ECO-Z8) received an ex Southwest 737-300 (msn 2779) reg CP-3136 instead the 737 classic restriction to operate in La Paz.

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