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acavpics
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Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aircraft?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:23 am

I'm just wondering why the electronically tinted window technology hasn't been introduced on other aircrafts by Boeing or any other manufacturer. Is it too costly? Does it not dim the cabin effectively? Do pax or crew seriously object to it?
Last edited by qf789 on Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: spelling in title
 
steveinbc
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:37 am

As a passenger I love it. Also the crew can "open" and "close" the blinds remotely from one selection panel. I would imagine it pays for itself since the weight of blinds being carried out each journey over the expected lifetime of the aircraft likely exceeds any additional costs. I have no idea of their reliability and that's the only immediate aspect I can think of that might be problematic and cause other not to follow suit.
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JAAlbert
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:43 am

We really haven't had a clean sheet aircraft since the 787 to apply the technology to. I don't see airlines retrofitting existing aircraft because of the cost and added complexity to older designs. Boeing wanted to change as little as possible on the 737-MAX so the cabin is essentially the same. I read that Boeing was considering the electronic shades on the 777-9/8, but I've not heard anything recently on the subject. A few 777-9s have been built, anyone know if they have the electronic dimming feature on the windows?
 
acavpics
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:05 am

JAAlbert wrote:
We really haven't had a clean sheet aircraft since the 787 to apply the technology to. I don't see airlines retrofitting existing aircraft because of the cost and added complexity to older designs. Boeing wanted to change as little as possible on the 737-MAX so the cabin is essentially the same. I read that Boeing was considering the electronic shades on the 777-9/8, but I've not heard anything recently on the subject. A few 777-9s have been built, anyone know if they have the electronic dimming feature on the windows?


I guess that makes sense. But how come Airbus hasn't put them on the A350 or A220, both of which came after the 787?
 
Antarius
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:09 am

JAAlbert wrote:
We really haven't had a clean sheet aircraft since the 787 to apply the technology to. I don't see airlines retrofitting existing aircraft because of the cost and added complexity to older designs. Boeing wanted to change as little as possible on the 737-MAX so the cabin is essentially the same. I read that Boeing was considering the electronic shades on the 777-9/8, but I've not heard anything recently on the subject. A few 777-9s have been built, anyone know if they have the electronic dimming feature on the windows?


I don't know, but I highly doubt that the current 777X's have finished interiors and side panels. They likely are still open metal with testing equipment everywhere.
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Ishrion
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:10 am

steveinbc wrote:
As a passenger I love it. Also the crew can "open" and "close" the blinds remotely from one selection panel. I would imagine it pays for itself since the weight of blinds being carried out each journey over the expected lifetime of the aircraft likely exceeds any additional costs. I have no idea of their reliability and that's the only immediate aspect I can think of that might be problematic and cause other not to follow suit.


Personally, I dislike it. On AA flights, the crew will lock the windows to the darkest settings after meal service and keep it locked until descent.
 
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:17 am

acavpics wrote:
JAAlbert wrote:
We really haven't had a clean sheet aircraft since the 787 to apply the technology to. I don't see airlines retrofitting existing aircraft because of the cost and added complexity to older designs. Boeing wanted to change as little as possible on the 737-MAX so the cabin is essentially the same. I read that Boeing was considering the electronic shades on the 777-9/8, but I've not heard anything recently on the subject. A few 777-9s have been built, anyone know if they have the electronic dimming feature on the windows?


I guess that makes sense. But how come Airbus hasn't put them on the A350 or A220, both of which came after the 787?


Does Boeing hold a patent on the technology?
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Lufthansa
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:17 am

I dislike it too. Things like Emirates use with business jet style shades (up the front of course) work far
better and the crew can control them too if needed. But the dimming system doesn't block out enough
light on things like the late night kangaroo route departures as you'll wake up several hours on the way to
Asia, or daytime ocean crossing where the light can be very bright and its not dim enough. If they want
this to work it has to have the option to go 100% black. Otherwise it interferes with viewing the IFE. Over the
ocean there's not a lot to see anyway.
 
gadFly
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:57 am

Actually, it's pretty pricey and it's likely patented. However, it's not new. Lockheed offered it in 1972 on the Tristar when it was first introduced, but most airlines realized its maintenance was fairly expensive as well, and it was just easier to let the pax use the plastic blind/sheet.
 
YYZatcboy
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:37 am

It is also very hot when the tinting is high. Passenger comfort and experience is not as good.
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VSMUT
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:00 am

Because it is a stupid gimmick that doesn't work as well as a traditional blind. Also, the push buttons disintegrate in less than a year and many passengers don't know how to use them.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:07 am

acavpics wrote:
I'm just wondering why the electronically tinted window technology hasn't been introduced on other aircrafts by Boeing or any other manufacturer. Is it too costly? Does it not dim the cabin effectively? Do pax or crew seriously object to it?


Dimmable windows are optional on the 777X. Wish they were standard. We'll see if anyone goes that route.
 
ACDC8
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:21 am

It's a stupid idea, glad its only the 87 that has it.

On a side note, the L1011 had a similar idea back in the day.
Last edited by ACDC8 on Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ewt340
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:31 am

steveinbc wrote:
As a passenger I love it. Also the crew can "open" and "close" the blinds remotely from one selection panel. I would imagine it pays for itself since the weight of blinds being carried out each journey over the expected lifetime of the aircraft likely exceeds any additional costs. I have no idea of their reliability and that's the only immediate aspect I can think of that might be problematic and cause other not to follow suit.


I don't think the plastic+paper manual blinds are that heavy. I doubt each blind even weigh in more than 50gr.
 
GoSharks
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:32 am

Lufthansa wrote:
I dislike it too. Things like Emirates use with business jet style shades (up the front of course) work far
better and the crew can control them too if needed. But the dimming system doesn't block out enough
light on things like the late night kangaroo route departures as you'll wake up several hours on the way to
Asia, or daytime ocean crossing where the light can be very bright and its not dim enough. If they want
this to work it has to have the option to go 100% black. Otherwise it interferes with viewing the IFE. Over the
ocean there's not a lot to see anyway.

The early 787s didn't get entirely dark, but the newer ones are close enough.
 
skipness1E
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:40 am

Ishrion wrote:
steveinbc wrote:
As a passenger I love it. Also the crew can "open" and "close" the blinds remotely from one selection panel. I would imagine it pays for itself since the weight of blinds being carried out each journey over the expected lifetime of the aircraft likely exceeds any additional costs. I have no idea of their reliability and that's the only immediate aspect I can think of that might be problematic and cause other not to follow suit.


Personally, I dislike it. On AA flights, the crew will lock the windows to the darkest settings after meal service and keep it locked until descent.

I flew ORD-DFW and back last year and they were dimmed but not locked, same with UA last week on a transcon, might be SOP to lock on long haul. Remember the 787 windows are a lot bigger and so flood the cabin with light.
 
ACDC8
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:42 am

skipness1E wrote:
Remember the 787 windows are a lot bigger and so flood the cabin with light.

Is the cabin full of vampires or something? :rotfl:
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slinky09
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:53 am

VSMUT wrote:
Because it is a stupid gimmick that doesn't work as well as a traditional blind. Also, the push buttons disintegrate in less than a year and many passengers don't know how to use them.


Spot on, they don't work, expensive, gimmick. A simple lightweight blind works far better.
 
uta999
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:42 am

Won't the next generation of aircraft design do away with passenger windows altogether, in favour of UHD screens? All those holes add weight and structure.
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ACDC8
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:54 am

uta999 wrote:
Won't the next generation of aircraft design do away with passenger windows altogether, in favour of UHD screens? All those holes add weight and structure.

Lets keep our fingers crossed that they don't.
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AirwayBill
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:12 am

They are ineffective: a dimming window does not protect well from sun rays, does not entirely block light, are slow to adapt and can get very hot making it very uncomfortable for the passenger.

On the neutral position, they still give the window a light milky blue shade. Furthermore they give full authority to the FA in controlling what you do with the window.

Also, they are actually not that easy to maintain, as they are much more complex and deteriorate quickly with time (like the rest of the shabby Sky Interior). The button is a perfect example: some barely 3yo 787s already have their tinting control buttons worn out and unresponsive. I cannot imagine how they will look like after 10, let alone 20 years of pax service.

In the end, apart from the 'cool effect', I can see little to no advantage to this system. It is a total waste.
Last edited by AirwayBill on Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
yodobashi
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:34 am

I HATE the stupid things - cabin crew darken them when THEY want, even in first .... if I pay stupid money to travel up front and even more to guarantee my seat, I at least want to able to look out of the window when I want to, not only when it suits the crew :mad:
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:43 am

yodobashi wrote:
I HATE the stupid things - cabin crew darken them when THEY want, even in first .... if I pay stupid money to travel up front and even more to guarantee my seat, I at least want to able to look out of the window when I want to, not only when it suits the crew :mad:


That sound very much like a privileged first World problem.
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FredrikHAD
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:51 am

It's not the technology that is stupid, it's the crew's use of it that one may think is stupid. If they demanded all pax to lower the manual shades, that would be the same as pushing a button to dim all windows, only with the side effect that two pax on each row has to lower them manually. Stop flying airlines that dim the windows or at least threaten to do so! If new tech is bad, why don't we go back to steam gauges and JT8D's (OK, that last part will not play out the way I intended, but you get the point...).

As for heat, the sun's rays are absorbed rather than reflected in the shades so the heat will have to go somewhere. I do understand that it may be uncomfortable to have a heat source next to your shoulder, but couldn't that be mitigated by aiming the fresh air outlet towards the window? Also, the manual shades should also heat up if the sun is shining on them. The electronic shades themselves don't generate heat, do they? I'd be very surprised if they did.

New tech isn't always good, but in this case, I think it's mostly the use of it that needs to be revised.

/Fredrik
 
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:04 am

scbriml wrote:
yodobashi wrote:
I HATE the stupid things - cabin crew darken them when THEY want, even in first .... if I pay stupid money to travel up front and even more to guarantee my seat, I at least want to able to look out of the window when I want to, not only when it suits the crew :mad:


That sound very much like a privileged first World problem.

Kinda like the privileged First World problem of those who feel the need to have a dark cabin.
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VSMUT
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:17 am

scbriml wrote:
yodobashi wrote:
I HATE the stupid things - cabin crew darken them when THEY want, even in first .... if I pay stupid money to travel up front and even more to guarantee my seat, I at least want to able to look out of the window when I want to, not only when it suits the crew :mad:


That sound very much like a privileged first World problem.


Flying in first is a priviledged first world thing. Doesn't mean problems shouldn't be adressed.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:43 am

VSMUT wrote:
scbriml wrote:
yodobashi wrote:
I HATE the stupid things - cabin crew darken them when THEY want, even in first .... if I pay stupid money to travel up front and even more to guarantee my seat, I at least want to able to look out of the window when I want to, not only when it suits the crew :mad:


That sound very much like a privileged first World problem.


Flying in first is a priviledged first world thing. Doesn't mean problems shouldn't be adressed.


Yeah, I can’t understand why the UN isn’t all over it. :roll:
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aircraft?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:04 am

To say I hate, I loathe, I despise the dimming windows would be a huge understatement! :mad: It's the absolute worst thing to happen to an airliner's cabin in my opinion. What's the point of paying for a window seat when you have zero control over your window?! And where is the fun in flying if you can't enjoy the view?! More sleeping pax means less workload for the cabin crew, that's why they override the pax and darken the cabin even when there's no need to do so. I just hope Airbus will never introduce this stupid feature on their aircraft and Delta will remain a 787-free airline!
 
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:05 am

scbriml wrote:
Yeah, I can’t understand why the UN isn’t all over it. :roll:


Oh, come on. You know as well as anyone else on here that this site isn’t about discussing human rights violations, it’s about discussing aviation. Virtually nothing on this site outside of the non-AV forum is going to have anything to do with the UN. And yes, 99% of the complaints on here, from tinted windows to the color of the wallpaper in the lavs, would qualify as “first world problems.” So what?
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moa999
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:24 am

uta999 wrote:
Won't the next generation of aircraft design do away with passenger windows altogether, in favour of UHD screens? All those holes add weight and structure.
That's my expectation. Even in a tube (ignoring the delta wing designs) would make for a much simpler and lighter fuselage construction with better sound and temperature characteristics.

Albeit harder in Y with pax jammed up against the window.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aircraft?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:27 am

I am a huge fan of the 787 system. It is the only fair compromise between up and down.

I personally want all window blinds down on any flight over 2 hours, and I viscerally hate anyone who leaves their blind open. However, unlike the self-entitled window seat passengers who seem to think they are the only people on the plane, I recognise that not everyone feels the same way I do.

This is the only system that attempts to balance both sides' interests. When fully dimmed you can still see out of the window, it isn't a perfect view but you can still see a reasonable amount of detail albeit with a blue tinge. It also isn't as dark as I would like, but it does block most of the light. I can't think of anything fairer than this. I'm all for it.
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PPVLC
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aircraft?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:55 am

Some people think they are the best thing ever invented and some people hate it, it's quite a divisive subject. I've never seen people debating old standard blinds though.
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curlyheadboy
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aircraft?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:23 am

PPVLC wrote:
Some people think they are the best thing ever invented and some people hate it, it's quite a divisive subject. I've never seen people debating old standard blinds though.


I agree.
On my very subjective experience of frequent flyer, I travelled onboard the 787 multiple times and for most I was neither pleased nor bothered by the electronic window shades.
The only time I had an issue was on a flight FCO-LAX with Norwegian. To be fair I was already miserable because I had to fly Norwegian's "premium"(last-minute booking, no other affordable options), but what really got on my nerves was the window, even set to full dark, allowed in enough sunlight to heat me up and make me sweat for several hours, I remember thinking that was the most idiotic engineering feature I had ever encountered and why in the world they wanted to modify something so simple and effective like the window blinds.
Since then I avoid window seats on the 787 for good measure, but on my last flight onboard the type on a brand-new -1000 plane (MNL-SIN on Singapore Airlines), I noticed the windows appeared to get darker, therefore I think they may have improved the design.
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jeffrey0032j
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:45 am

uta999 wrote:
Won't the next generation of aircraft design do away with passenger windows altogether, in favour of UHD screens? All those holes add weight and structure.

You mean they won't put ads on those screens?
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aircraft?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:02 pm

I love those tinting windows, but I dislike the fact that the crew can override them. I have been on a flight where I wanted my window to darken, but it wouldn't work because it was in override mode for the entire flight.

I understand why the crew would want to override the windows during take-off or landing, but for the rest of the flight the passengers should have control. Maybe it's an idea to make the override setting time-limited.
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aircraft?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:05 pm

The 787 has the biggest windows. They had to solve the problem of where to put a shade. In most airplanes, the window shade is part of the sidewalk installation that covers the frames, stringers and insulation. The problem with the 787 window is that there is not sufficient space above the window for a shade to slide along the sidewall panel. The options were a split shade, a roller shade or a tinted window. The roller shades found on MD80s are more transparent than flat shades on the 7series airplanes. The roller shades also get stuck, deteriorate or fail. Tinted window shades was a way to solve the space problem and can be marketed as an improvement (although some debate this).
 
workhorse
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aircraft?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:52 pm

This is one of the reasons (actually the main one) why I avoid flying the 787 on any significant distance. In the future, I will do my best to avoid any aircraft that has those things and I will also do as much bad publicity for these planes and airlines that buy them amongst my friends and relatives who usually don't look at aircraft type when they book.

"If it's a 787, choose another option!" is what I currently say to them. I will add to this list any aircraft that will follow that way, be it Boeing, Airbus or whatever else.
Last edited by workhorse on Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
jimbo737
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aircraft?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:04 pm

To each, his own.

I think they are a fabulous feature. I’ll take the 787 in Y any day over any other airframe.
 
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NYPECO
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:44 pm

scbriml wrote:
yodobashi wrote:
I HATE the stupid things - cabin crew darken them when THEY want, even in first .... if I pay stupid money to travel up front and even more to guarantee my seat, I at least want to able to look out of the window when I want to, not only when it suits the crew :mad:


That sound very much like a privileged first World problem.


So what? Should we never mention poor flight experiences just because flying is a first world privilege?
 
musman9853
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:45 pm

slinky09 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
Because it is a stupid gimmick that doesn't work as well as a traditional blind. Also, the push buttons disintegrate in less than a year and many passengers don't know how to use them.


Spot on, they don't work, expensive, gimmick. A simple lightweight blind works far better.


I personally love them. I can still look out of those gorgeous windows and not disturb the person next to me.
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Sancho99504
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aircraft?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:58 pm

I find it ridiculous when I pay $7,000 for a seat on an airplane and can't get a good look out of the window because the cabin crew keeps dimming my 2 windows to the darkest setting. I personally find the 787's "higher humidity and lower altitude pressure" to be highly overrated. I haven't noticed any difference between the 787 verses the 777 or A330, but it blows the 767 away.
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ChrisKen
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aircraft?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:37 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
I personally want all window blinds down on any flight over 2 hours, and I viscerally hate anyone who leaves their blind open. However, unlike the self-entitled window seat passengers who seem to think they are the only people on the plane, I recognise that not everyone feels the same way I do.

Wear an eye mask. You have the choice. I can't look out a blacked out window but you can cover your eyes if darkness is so precious to you.
I keep the shade up (usually halfway), it's the best form of IFE (yes, even over the ocean), it helps with the jet lag and your body appreciates the sunlight. I've never understood those that immediately drop the blinds the second they sit down, particularly in these times when you've more than likely paid extra for the window seat. Air travel is miserable enough without having to do it in enforced darkness too.

You want dark, bring an eye mask. It'll cost you a couple of quid, tops.
 
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:45 pm

yodobashi wrote:
I HATE the stupid things - cabin crew darken them when THEY want, even in first .... if I pay stupid money to travel up front and even more to guarantee my seat, I at least want to able to look out of the window when I want to, not only when it suits the crew :mad:

You can still look out the window when they are darkened. Wasn't that the whole idea for these windows on the 787? No blinds, just darken the window and still look out?
 
gokmengs
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aircraft?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:29 pm

Wow can’t believe what a divisive subject this is and how strong are the opinions feelings on both sides this could be the next A vs B :)
Having said that I think this post explains it best;

RyanairGuru wrote:
I am a huge fan of the 787 system. It is the only fair compromise between up and down.

I personally want all window blinds down on any flight over 2 hours, and I viscerally hate anyone who leaves their blind open. However, unlike the self-entitled window seat passengers who seem to think they are the only people on the plane, I recognise that not everyone feels the same way I do.

This is the only system that attempts to balance both sides' interests. When fully dimmed you can still see out of the window, it isn't a perfect view but you can still seems a reasonable amount of detail albeit with a blue tinge. It also isn't as dark as I would like, but it does block most of the light. I can't think of anything fairer than this. I'm all for it.
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YellowJ
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:45 pm

DTWLAX wrote:
yodobashi wrote:
I HATE the stupid things - cabin crew darken them when THEY want, even in first .... if I pay stupid money to travel up front and even more to guarantee my seat, I at least want to able to look out of the window when I want to, not only when it suits the crew :mad:

You can still look out the window when they are darkened. Wasn't that the whole idea for these windows on the 787? No blinds, just darken the window and still look out?


People ALWAYS want to find something to complain about. Yes you can see out the window when it's dimmed.
 
9Patch
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:31 pm

uta999 wrote:
Won't the next generation of aircraft design do away with passenger windows altogether, in favour of UHD screens? All those holes add weight and structure.


Yes, because the next generation of aircraft will be blended wing which doesn't allow for windows.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:35 pm

uta999 wrote:
Won't the next generation of aircraft design do away with passenger windows altogether, in favour of UHD screens? All those holes add weight and structure.


There's a safety issue. Windows allow passengers and cabin crew to see out in the event of evacuation so it allows the people in the cabin to see if there are flames, smoke, or some other reason not to evacuate from that side of the aircraft. In addition, if there is bad enough fuselage damage the emergency lighting may not work and so the windows increase the risk of outside light coming in.
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DDR
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:43 pm

ACDC8 wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
Remember the 787 windows are a lot bigger and so flood the cabin with light.

Is the cabin full of vampires or something? :rotfl:


Maybe TAROM should install them on all their planes. :lol:
 
DDR
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aicrafts?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:46 pm

DocLightning wrote:
uta999 wrote:
Won't the next generation of aircraft design do away with passenger windows altogether, in favour of UHD screens? All those holes add weight and structure.


There's a safety issue. Windows allow passengers and cabin crew to see out in the event of evacuation so it allows the people in the cabin to see if there are flames, smoke, or some other reason not to evacuate from that side of the aircraft. In addition, if there is bad enough fuselage damage the emergency lighting may not work and so the windows increase the risk of outside light coming in.


Actual windows at crew seats and emergency exits would solve this problem.

We train in evacuation scenarios where the cabin is full of smoke. Sunlight wouldn’t help and yet we can get everyone out. Plus, there is no sunlight at night anyway.
 
VC10er
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Re: Why haven't the 787's electronic tinting windows been used on other aircraft?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:26 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
I am a huge fan of the 787 system. It is the only fair compromise between up and down.

I personally want all window blinds down on any flight over 2 hours, and I viscerally hate anyone who leaves their blind open. However, unlike the self-entitled window seat passengers who seem to think they are the only people on the plane, I recognise that not everyone feels the same way I do.

This is the only system that attempts to balance both sides' interests. When fully dimmed you can still see out of the window, it isn't a perfect view but you can still see a reasonable amount of detail albeit with a blue tinge. It also isn't as dark as I would like, but it does block most of the light. I can't think of anything fairer than this. I'm all for it.


I love the 787 too. A LOT!

I fly on one often and as I ALWAYS check the equipment before booking, seeing the flight is operated by a 787 is a huge plus for me for many reasons. First I think the cabin design in general is beautiful, I love the huge windows. I like the electronic dimming windows as I can still see out even if the crew has dimmed and locked them. Before the 787, crews would ALWAYS ask that everyone put their shades down if it is a night flight but we would be landing in daylight. If you did not comply, an FA would either ask you to please pull the shade down OR if you are asleep, they would reach over and close the shade. So, the FA's always controlled the windows no matter what: it's just the 787 where they can do it from a central control.

I am old enough to remember when cars (like the 1960's Thunderbird) had electric open and close windows on a car vs a crank to roll the windows up and down. In 1966 that was "new tech" and there were massive complaints about malfunctions..."just another gizmo that will ultimately break". Obviously that tech was perfected and today automatic window controls on cars are standard and perfected. I thought about that when the 787 launched. I knew their would be issues with a new gizmo. But it will keep getting better, just like my TV today vs 20 years ago.

However, as for the "self entitled" people who you viscerally hate who keep the shade open, perhaps they are not "self entitled" (but it sounds like your opinion should prevail?) The person at the window controls the shade. Period. All you need to do is ask: "Excuse me, but the sun from your window is beaming directly into my eyes, would you mind lowering your shade, please?" is all you need to do to recover from your visceral hatred of that person. Here is something that may not have occurred to you: I have 2 work colleagues who are absolutely terrified of flying, but they must fly fairly often for their job. Being able to look out the window when there is the slightest turbulence, and especially during very heavy chop, they MUST BE ABLE TO LOOK OUT THE WINDOW. They could not stand to feel the airplane bounce around (sometimes with a that dropping feeling in heavy chop) they need to see "all is good" and see the plane is flying along ok regardless of the chop. They happen to be 2 lovely people and your visceral hate is actually your issue, not them. If you did ask them nicely to close the shade, I know what they would say because it would not be their first time. Ask nicely and they will if there is no chop. If there is chop they would nicely explain their fear and why the window is important to them. The compromise is often shutting it half way.
However they actually had experiences where their noses were virtually against the window during heavy turbulence and the person the the middle seat or aisle seat just reaches over (says nothing) and pulls the shade down IN THEIR FACE. I have told them that if that happens again, just pull the shade right back up. If the other rude pax gets testy or nasty, get the FA immediately who will most likely take your side if you calmly explain your fear of flying. Last: both of these people really, SERIOUSLY MISS Channel 9 on United, and would fly United only as UA was the only airline with Ch 9. During heavy chop they would listen to the pilot, and hearing their calm voice as the plane bounces and shakes and drinks spilling, calmed them greatly.
last: They also LOVE THE DIMMING windows on a 787. For them, they can see enough, but can do so without bothering anyone else.
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