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USAirKid
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Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:48 am

I was browsing another thread and I came across a post from DL_Mech with this photo:

Image

I was surprised to see an over wing jet bridge. I know there have been more modern experiments and implementations of this, but I was surprised to find this photo. From what I've deduced given that its a 747, and the livery it is painted in, this would've been from the 1970s, probably the earlier part of the century. There also is an old helpful thread about the livery changes at TWA that helps date the photo.

Does anyone know when this jet bridge design was in use? How did it work? It looks like the plane pulled in with the jet bridge extended already, but I could also see it having the ability to move somewhat?
 
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cathay747
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:19 pm

I never knew LAX had such a thing, and I find the design of it quite shocking as there is no support for the outer portion! That's a lot of weight sticking out there over that wing!!!
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travelsonic
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:51 pm

cathay747 wrote:
I never knew LAX had such a thing, and I find the design of it quite shocking as there is no support for the outer portion! That's a lot of weight sticking out there over that wing!!!


You sure there isn't a support, or wheels (for moving around the jetbridge) under the end that actually docks with the aircraft? I mean, it'd seem there would have to be, pushback would be a mot hairier if it couldn't move, and the tug crew & pilot both had to avoid smacking into it.
 
sprxUSA
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:07 pm

travelsonic wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
I never knew LAX had such a thing, and I find the design of it quite shocking as there is no support for the outer portion! That's a lot of weight sticking out there over that wing!!!


You sure there isn't a support, or wheels (for moving around the jetbridge) under the end that actually docks with the aircraft? I mean, it'd seem there would have to be, pushback would be a mot hairier if it couldn't move, and the tug crew & pilot both had to avoid smacking into it.


Um if there were, how exactly would you be able to pull plane in or push out? The pillar the bridge is attatched to in front of wing raises/ lowers bridge to give adequate clearancarance
wing for maneuvering. I am sure engineers were smart enough to design the pillar to be able to handle such loads. However, certainly must not have been really practical, as such ones ( overwing jetways) are still a rarity as I think they should.
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travelsonic
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:11 pm

D'oh, yeah, didn't have my morning coffee, I see the problem. Haha.
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:15 pm

What I find interesting is the small joggle forward that the Jetway makes near the aircraft doorway.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
cj477
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:15 pm

Also, I always thought the TriStar was much closer in size to a 747 than it appears in this photo!
 
mga707
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:43 pm

L-1011 entered TWA service on June 25, 1972, STL-LAX, so photo is on or after that date.
 
Antarius
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:46 pm

sprxUSA wrote:
travelsonic wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
I never knew LAX had such a thing, and I find the design of it quite shocking as there is no support for the outer portion! That's a lot of weight sticking out there over that wing!!!


You sure there isn't a support, or wheels (for moving around the jetbridge) under the end that actually docks with the aircraft? I mean, it'd seem there would have to be, pushback would be a mot hairier if it couldn't move, and the tug crew & pilot both had to avoid smacking into it.


Um if there were, how exactly would you be able to pull plane in or push out? The pillar the bridge is attatched to in front of wing raises/ lowers bridge to give adequate clearancarance
wing for maneuvering. I am sure engineers were smart enough to design the pillar to be able to handle such loads. However, certainly must not have been really practical, as such ones ( overwing jetways) are still a rarity as I think they should.


Here is a picture showing the rear portion.

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=m ... 5791b1889f

Also, the at DIA collapsed, resulting in the idea being abandoned there, and likely other places.
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sprxUSA
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:54 pm

Off if WN at ALB they used the rear jetway that day, so naturally had to give it a whirl. Only 70 some folks, so kind of a waste lol.
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entdoc
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:33 pm

I have vague memories of having seen overwing jetways at JFK years ago
IIRC the overwing part was supported from above by some sort of cantilevered gridwork that was attached to
the main part of the jetway. that may have also contained moving parts that allowed for its maneuvering.

this pix at AMS shows the idea. https://www.airliners.net/photo/KLM-Asi ... /1979490/L
apologies to the moderators in advance if I inadvertently violated any rules by linking the photo

not clear what held up the overwing part in the OP photo
 
hiflyeras
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:24 pm

The AMS jetbridges look much stronger structurally...the one at LAX look like it might snap off at any moment!
 
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jsnww81
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:30 pm

Southwest tried experimental over-the-wing jetbridges at DAL and ALB back in 2002-03. The model at DAL was installed at Gate 6. I arrived there on a flight from Houston in 2002 and was determined to try it out. I was sitting in the rear of the plane and remember it took them a long time to maneuver it into position - they had to be very careful as they went up and over the wing. By the time they actually connected it to the rear door, most of the forward pax had already deplaned and we could've gone that way as well.
 
santi319
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:47 pm

jsnww81 wrote:
Southwest tried experimental over-the-wing jetbridges at DAL and ALB back in 2002-03. The model at DAL was installed at Gate 6. I arrived there on a flight from Houston in 2002 and was determined to try it out. I was sitting in the rear of the plane and remember it took them a long time to maneuver it into position - they had to be very careful as they went up and over the wing. By the time they actually connected it to the rear door, most of the forward pax had already deplaned and we could've gone that way as well.

And looking at the AMS photo, the walk is absolutely insane. This is a waste of time.
 
CaptainWannabe
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:52 pm

Is it possible that the jet bridge actually rests on the wing? Could it have rollers underneath that the plane simply taxis under?
 
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chepos
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:55 pm

The old JFK IAB/T4 had some gates equipped with over-wing jetways. They fell out of favor over the years.


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millionsofmiles
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:59 pm

The over-the-wing jetway was in use when I travelled as a child with my dad on a business trip from JFK to LAX on TWA 903 (a 747) in March 1971. As we taxied in, I had a great view of the jetway elevated to a very high angle in order to accommodate the 747’s taxi-in.
 
cschleic
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:13 pm

Not to burst any bubbles, but is it possible that this was a made-up image or proposal of what something could have looked like at the time? It's an awfully long extension of the jetway and the designs at other airports, such as AMS, have much more support structure. As noted, there's the odd side-step of the structure at the plane's door. But what strikes me...looking at the connection point with the terminal, there isn't any rotating point or circular part of the structure that would be needed for the entire jetway to move laterally while being positioned. Seems odd that such a long extension, with no visible support, would be permitted to hang over a plane's wing and that one looks very close to the wing.

Note...started typing this before the prior entry was posted about seeing the jetway at LAX.
 
DLASFlyer
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:34 pm

The crazy thing is that terminal is still in use today and looks almost the same as in that photo.
 
USAirALB
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:52 pm

The one's in use at ALB by WN are still in use, and were modified within the past couple of years to be able to handle 738s.

I believe WN also had them installed at both AUS and DAL. The ones in use at AUS and DAL were company owned and installed IIRC. The only reason they still exist at ALB is because the ALB airport authority purchased them outright.
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global2
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:04 pm

[quote="entdoc"]I have vague memories of having seen overwing jetways at JFK years ago
IIRC the overwing part was supported from above by some sort of cantilevered gridwork that was attached to
the main part of the jetway. that may have also contained moving parts that allowed for its maneuvering.

Yes, they had a steel structure which when viewed from above appeared wedge shaped. I believe the jetway hung on rollers from this structure can could move laterally as needed to maneuver into the correct position. But I thought it connected to L3, not L4 as the photo of LAX indicates, but I could be wrong.
 
BojamDelta
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:06 pm

cj477 wrote:
Also, I always thought the TriStar was much closer in size to a 747 than it appears in this photo!


I was thinking same the thing!
Love these kind of shots, the Queen surely was a beast.

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DL_Mech
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:37 pm

cschleic wrote:
Not to burst any bubbles, but is it possible that this was a made-up image or proposal of what something could have looked like at the time?


I agree it looks a little fake, but the forward jetway matches one of the Jon Proctor LAX photos. Too bad he did not take photos of the other jetway.

http://jonproctor.net/new-york-new-york-2/

Image
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
cschleic
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:27 pm

USAirALB wrote:
The one's in use at ALB by WN are still in use, and were modified within the past couple of years to be able to handle 738s.

I believe WN also had them installed at both AUS and DAL. The ones in use at AUS and DAL were company owned and installed IIRC. The only reason they still exist at ALB is because the ALB airport authority purchased them outright.


Photo of ALB jetways:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/aerial-ph ... 4269275897
 
Max Q
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:00 am

With that amount of weight hanging so far out unsupported I imagine that jetway had quite a ‘bounce’ to it as passengers walked out and over the wing
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


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SamTheGeek
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:19 am

DL_Mech wrote:
What I find interesting is the small joggle forward that the Jetway makes near the aircraft doorway.


I'd bet this moved forward/aft under the operator's control to line up the jetbridge with the aircraft door (allowing for variance in where the plane was parked as well as aircraft with doors in slightly different positions). Doesn't look like there's any other length adjustment on this jet bridge.
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:48 am

SamTheGeek wrote:
DL_Mech wrote:
What I find interesting is the small joggle forward that the Jetway makes near the aircraft doorway.


I'd bet this moved forward/aft under the operator's control to line up the jetbridge with the aircraft door (allowing for variance in where the plane was parked as well as aircraft with doors in slightly different positions). Doesn't look like there's any other length adjustment on this jet bridge.


After looking at it, it looks like the operator's window is facing the wing instead of the towards the boarding door.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
SUPER63DL
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:42 am

All talking points discussed & done,This is a Very cool picture! I grew up in the 70's in so Cal, and this was/is my home base airport. Very Cool Indeed!
 
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millionsofmiles
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:05 am

DL_Mech wrote:
cschleic wrote:
Not to burst any bubbles, but is it possible that this was a made-up image or proposal of what something could have looked like at the time?


I agree it looks a little fake, but the forward jetway matches one of the Jon Proctor LAX photos. Too bad he did not take photos of the other jetway.

http://jonproctor.net/new-york-new-york-2/

Image


You are absolutely wrong. The over-the-wing Jetway did exist and I deplaned through it upon arrival from JFK into LAX on TWA flight 903 in March 1971.
 
cschleic
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:21 am

millionsofmiles wrote:
DL_Mech wrote:
cschleic wrote:
Not to burst any bubbles, but is it possible that this was a made-up image or proposal of what something could have looked like at the time?


I agree it looks a little fake, but the forward jetway matches one of the Jon Proctor LAX photos. Too bad he did not take photos of the other jetway.

http://jonproctor.net/new-york-new-york-2/

Image


You are absolutely wrong. The over-the-wing Jetway did exist and I deplaned through it upon arrival from JFK into LAX on TWA flight 903 in March 1971.


It was a question. In any case, that's why I added the edit to my comment about the timing of our two posts.
 
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cathay747
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:25 pm

entdoc wrote:
I have vague memories of having seen overwing jetways at JFK years ago
IIRC the overwing part was supported from above by some sort of cantilevered gridwork that was attached to
the main part of the jetway. that may have also contained moving parts that allowed for its maneuvering.

this pix at AMS shows the idea. https://www.airliners.net/photo/KLM-Asi ... /1979490/L
apologies to the moderators in advance if I inadvertently violated any rules by linking the photo

not clear what held up the overwing part in the OP photo


Right...JFK (at the old IAB) & AMS were the only 2 airports I was aware of that ever had over-wing jetways, and yes, the ones at JFK were very similar with a cantilevered structure to support it. I don't know if the ones at AMS are still there, nor do I know when the ones at JFK were removed...prior to the redevelopment of the IAB?

Seems to me this was one of those ideas which sounded great on paper, but in practice was deemed just too risky from the standpoint of a possible accident like the one in the link above at DEN; never knew UA had such a thing there.

I mean hell...if airlines are too skittish to use the L2 door on A321's because of the risk of damaging the #1 engine with the jetway, the overwing concept seems far riskier, even dangerous given the potential of a massive fuel leak and possible fire from a damaged wing if the thing collapsed. The dual-jetway model for use with L1 & L2 doors on widebodies is FAR safer and obviously airlines/airports agree given the prolific use of that model/system.
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Flanker7
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Re: Old LAX T3 with Over wing Jet Bridge

Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:33 pm

santi319 wrote:
jsnww81 wrote:
Southwest tried experimental over-the-wing jetbridges at DAL and ALB back in 2002-03. The model at DAL was installed at Gate 6. I arrived there on a flight from Houston in 2002 and was determined to try it out. I was sitting in the rear of the plane and remember it took them a long time to maneuver it into position - they had to be very careful as they went up and over the wing. By the time they actually connected it to the rear door, most of the forward pax had already deplaned and we could've gone that way as well.

And looking at the AMS photo, the walk is absolutely insane. This is a waste of time.

Have you actually been to Amsterdam and boarded that way? Done it many time and boarding goes actually quicker with the over wing on. Without it the single bridge gets quite congested and you basically stand there waiting.
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