TMccrury
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Florida Woman’s Arm and foot severed by planes propeller

Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:34 am

A Florida woman lost her arm and foot at Key West International after exiting the aircraft. More details in the https://www.foxnews.com/us/florida-woma ... -propeller
 
SoCalPilot
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Re: Florida Woman’s Arm and foot severed by planes propeller

Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:17 am

So the pilot got out of the plane with the engine running? Not the smartest move.

I use to train a guy that had his arm cutoff by the prop on a 172.
 
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MoKa777
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Re: Florida Woman’s Arm and foot severed by planes propeller

Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:34 am

Oh no, that's just terrible...
Never be proud. Always be grateful.
 
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FredrikHAD
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Re: Florida Woman’s Arm and foot severed by planes propeller

Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:50 am

”The pilot got out to see if the blocks beneath the airplane tires were still in place. The female passenger then exited and was hit by the propeller while walking in front of the plane, police said.”

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/ ... 92133.html

It was C172S

”...told his wife not to [step out of the plane and then not to] go to the front of the plane but she did. She went to remove a chock from the plane’s tires and she came in contact with the propeller.”

Sad, sad event.

/Fredrik
 
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TheLion
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Re: Florida Woman’s Arm and foot severed by planes propeller

Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:59 am

That’s truly horrific. Poor woman. Yet ultimately it seems that while she didn’t listen to the pilot, her husband, he should have turned the engine off before getting out of the plane.

Perhaps regulations for private flights need to be tightened up and clearer education of users should be introduced. Yet how can you police everyone flying at this level?
 
slider
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Re: Florida Woman’s Arm and foot severed by planes propeller

Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:26 pm

TheLion wrote:
That’s truly horrific. Poor woman. Yet ultimately it seems that while she didn’t listen to the pilot, her husband, he should have turned the engine off before getting out of the plane.

Perhaps regulations for private flights need to be tightened up and clearer education of users should be introduced. Yet how can you police everyone flying at this level?


The last thing we need is more regulation, good grief. This is lack of situational awareness or, if you prefer, stupidity. You can't regulate that out of existence.
 
Elementalism
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Re: Florida Woman’s Arm and foot severed by planes propeller

Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:11 pm

TheLion wrote:
That’s truly horrific. Poor woman. Yet ultimately it seems that while she didn’t listen to the pilot, her husband, he should have turned the engine off before getting out of the plane.

Perhaps regulations for private flights need to be tightened up and clearer education of users should be introduced. Yet how can you police everyone flying at this level?


Cant regulate stupidity.

1. Disregards husbands instructions.
2. Walks into a spinning propeller.
 
snasteve
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Re: Florida Woman’s Arm and foot severed by planes propeller

Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:19 pm

TheLion wrote:
That’s truly horrific. Poor woman. Yet ultimately it seems that while she didn’t listen to the pilot, her husband, he should have turned the engine off before getting out of the plane.

Perhaps regulations for private flights need to be tightened up and clearer education of users should be introduced. Yet how can you police everyone flying at this level?


I’m sure he feels pretty bad and could probably do without the added insult of being fined on top of a bad situation.
 
snasteve
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Re: Florida Woman’s Arm and foot severed by planes propeller

Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:22 pm

Elementalism wrote:
TheLion wrote:
That’s truly horrific. Poor woman. Yet ultimately it seems that while she didn’t listen to the pilot, her husband, he should have turned the engine off before getting out of the plane.

Perhaps regulations for private flights need to be tightened up and clearer education of users should be introduced. Yet how can you police everyone flying at this level?


Cant regulate stupidity.

1. Disregards husbands instructions.
2. Walks into a spinning propeller.


It doesn’t sound stupid to me. It sounds more likely she simply didn’t hear or may have misunderstood what her husband was saying to her. It was an accident.
 
cskok8
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Re: Florida Woman’s Arm and foot severed by planes propeller

Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:23 pm

Elementalism wrote:
TheLion wrote:
That’s truly horrific. Poor woman. Yet ultimately it seems that while she didn’t listen to the pilot, her husband, he should have turned the engine off before getting out of the plane.

Perhaps regulations for private flights need to be tightened up and clearer education of users should be introduced. Yet how can you police everyone flying at this level?


Cant regulate stupidity.

1. Disregards husbands instructions.


Have you ever been married?
 
Elementalism
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Re: Florida Woman’s Arm and foot severed by planes propeller

Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:35 pm

cskok8 wrote:
Elementalism wrote:
TheLion wrote:
That’s truly horrific. Poor woman. Yet ultimately it seems that while she didn’t listen to the pilot, her husband, he should have turned the engine off before getting out of the plane.

Perhaps regulations for private flights need to be tightened up and clearer education of users should be introduced. Yet how can you police everyone flying at this level?


Cant regulate stupidity.

1. Disregards husbands instructions.


Have you ever been married?


Yes and is why I said regulation wont stop a wife not listening to her husband. :)
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Florida Woman’s Arm and foot severed by planes propeller

Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:38 pm

Reading the link, it sounds like the plane was ultimately running with NO ONE at the controls. Pilot gets out to see why he couldn’t taxi, she gets out and is hit by prop. Why anyone who is in charge of a plane would NOT shutdown the engine, then investigate the problem is beyond me and shows either really poor airmanship or really poor training. Probably both. Even in a jet, if you have open a door, at least the engine on that side are shutdown.
 
Natflyer
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Re: Florida Woman’s Arm and foot severed by planes propeller

Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:55 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Reading the link, it sounds like the plane was ultimately running with NO ONE at the controls. Pilot gets out to see why he couldn’t taxi, she gets out and is hit by prop. Why anyone who is in charge of a plane would NOT shutdown the engine, then investigate the problem is beyond me and shows either really poor airmanship or really poor training. Probably both. Even in a jet, if you have open a door, at least the engine on that side are shutdown.


Agreed. This guy´s ticket should be pulled. You just don´t get out of the "hotseat" with a running engine.
 
bob75013
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Re: Florida Woman’s Arm and foot severed by planes propeller

Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:16 pm

I almost walked in to one once. I was a passenger and got out to do something in an office -- was warned by the pilot upon leaving the plane and upon return veered away at the last second. You really cannot see the spinning prop, and unless you are thinking about it, it's an easy mistake to make.

As a pilot, I adoped a rule: turn off the engine if anyone is walking about.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Florida Woman’s Arm and foot severed by planes propeller

Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:02 pm

bob75013 wrote:
As a pilot, I adoped a rule: turn off the engine if anyone is walking about.

Did you ever get off the ground?

I've been walking around aircraft with spinning props since I was in fourth grade.
Mostly it was helicopters that got my adrenalin going; at very low rpm, some of those rotors look like they would give anyone a haircut.
Of course that was before 9/11, so things might have changed since then.

How do you think they cope at Oshkosh?
Thousands of planes, and millions of peoples with airside passes.
I'm fairly certain neither of these photos were taken from a distance with a long telephoto lens.
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Florida Woman’s Arm and foot severed by planes propeller

Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:04 pm

In close proximity to plane, obviously that was not the case in these pictures. Except for propping a plane, there’s no reason to have someone enter or exit a prop plane with the prop under power. Helos, maybe, but that’s killed people, too.

Nice, Jungmeister!
 
DigitalSea
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Re: Florida Woman’s Arm and foot severed by planes propeller

Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:21 pm

This is why pre-flight checklists exist.
 
OB1504
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Re: Florida Woman’s Arm and foot severed by planes propeller

Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:56 pm

Elementalism wrote:
TheLion wrote:
That’s truly horrific. Poor woman. Yet ultimately it seems that while she didn’t listen to the pilot, her husband, he should have turned the engine off before getting out of the plane.

Perhaps regulations for private flights need to be tightened up and clearer education of users should be introduced. Yet how can you police everyone flying at this level?


Cant regulate stupidity.

1. Disregards husbands instructions.
2. Walks into a spinning propeller.


For the non-aviation inclined, walking into a spinning propeller is very easy to do given that it’s virtually invisible.

This is absolutely on the pilot for not doing a proper walkaround inspection which would’ve revealed that the chocks were still on, and for not shutting off the engine before allowing people to get out. I agree with the other poster who said he should have his license revoked for this show of stupidity.
 
spacecadet
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Re: Florida Woman’s Arm and foot severed by planes propeller

Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:21 pm

OB1504 wrote:
This is absolutely on the pilot for not doing a proper walkaround inspection which would’ve revealed that the chocks were still on, and for not shutting off the engine before allowing people to get out. I agree with the other poster who said he should have his license revoked for this show of stupidity.


I don't know whether or not he did a proper walkaround - it's very easy even when doing a full pre-flight inspection to miss something like that, for various reasons. For example, while it's not a regulation, it's generally considered good practice to keep an airplane tied down and/or chocked while it's being refueled. Depending on where you are in your walkaround checklist, you may finish everything else by the time the fueling's done, believe you've done the entire checklist and get into the cockpit as soon as the truck leaves.

When I was doing PPL training, it was very common for students to try to taxi with the tiedowns still attached for that reason, and I did it once myself. You'd hope that someone who is licensed would be beyond that, but humans are not infallible; they do human things and make mistakes.

But that should not cause an accident like this. What causes an accident like this is not shutting off the engine before getting out of the plane. I have never gotten out of a plane, nor allowed anyone else to, with the engine running. Sometimes as a private pilot you realize you're actually not quite ready to go after turning the engine on for whatever reason, and you have to get back out. So shut the engine off, get out, and no harm, no foul.

I feel bad for both of these people. As a GA pilot, I know that we all make mistakes and even if we think we're the safest pilots in the world, there are probably things we all do that others would judge as unsafe. GA pilots are not the most highly trained and we learn a lot of what we think we know through experience. If someone convinced themselves that they knew how to be safe walking around a plane with the prop running, then they're probably gonna do it. It's kind of like keeping a loaded gun on your nightstand while you sleep. A lot of us would think that was stupid too, especially after an accident occurs, but that person up to that moment thinks there's nothing wrong with it, and there's no law or regulation specifically against it. It doesn't make them a bad person; it just means they had a bad practice that eventually bit them.

Anyway, not saying he shouldn't be penalized, just saying as a married GA pilot myself, this is both something I can somewhat understand happening, and also something that I'm always thinking about on the ground, because it would be my worst nightmare.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
AtomicGarden
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Re: Florida Woman’s Arm and foot severed by planes propeller

Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:48 am

bob75013 wrote:
You really cannot see the spinning prop, and unless you are thinking about it, it's an easy mistake to make.


Is it difficult to hear, also? Or you mean she just miscalculated her distance to the spinning props?
You killed a black astronaut, Cyril! That's like killing a unicorn!
 
spacecadet
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Re: Florida Woman’s Arm and foot severed by planes propeller

Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:56 am

AtomicGarden wrote:
Is it difficult to hear, also? Or you mean she just miscalculated her distance to the spinning props?


It can definitely be difficult to hear on a ramp where other planes probably have their engines on too. A prop at idle or near idle is also not nearly as loud as a prop at higher RPM, even if that higher RPM plane is farther away. So if someone was taking off or just doing a runup at the same time, it could easily overpower the sound of a prop closer to you. It would at least make it difficult to know where the sound was actually coming from.

This is why prop safety is such a big issue, and a lot of people don't understand that.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Florida Woman’s Arm and foot severed by planes propeller

Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:12 am

Back in the day, I worked as a line boy. Yes, that was the job title, none of technician nonsense. Anyway, we were taught safety by old guys that had seen the worst including WW II accidents. It was driven into us in ways no student paying for a quick way to the PPL and follow your passion will be taught.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Florida Woman’s Arm and foot severed by planes propeller

Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:26 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Except for propping a plane, there’s no reason to have someone enter or exit a prop plane with the prop under power. Helos, maybe, but that’s killed people, too.

Helos maybe??
The world record for the world's busiest airport for one day, was the heliport at Silverstone (EGBV) during the 1999 British Grand Prix. There were 4,200 documented aircraft movements in one day from dawn till dusk (all VFR)

And 98% of those movements were helicopters shuttling people back & forth, and loading/offloading pax whilst keeping their rotors turning.
Hell, you will even see them refuelling JetRangers without bothering to stop the engines.
Here's Alain de Cadenet explaining it all in 6m36s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... OqCIO1MkJ8

(Alain de Cadanet is the poor guy who once did a piece to camera whilst his good mate Ray Hanna sneaked up behind him in a Spitfire.)
Please excuse Alain's rather robust language following his near-death experience. So funny. :bigthumbsup:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iOoiEbtf2w

Nice, Jungmeister!

Thx. It's always good to receive a compliment, but I ain't so "jung" any more. :lol:
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Florida Woman’s Arm and foot severed by planes propeller

Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:48 am

bob75013 wrote:
I almost walked in to one once. I was a passenger and got out to do something in an office -- was warned by the pilot upon leaving the plane and upon return veered away at the last second. You really cannot see the spinning prop, and unless you are thinking about it, it's an easy mistake to make.

As a pilot, I adoped a rule: turn off the engine if anyone is walking about.



You can't trust that your eyes can actually see the full extent of travel on anything rotating that fast either. There's actually wobble in these blades that our eyes are unable to see and process. You think you can tell where the spinning object is, but it's actually cutting through what appears to us as empty space immediately around it.
 
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SuseJ772
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Re: Florida Woman’s Arm and foot severed by planes propeller

Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:37 am

In a very real way she was very lucky. If I understand the dynamics at play here she almost lost her head.

I had one time where I pulled the chocks out but not far enough away and than ran into them while taxing. I debated for a half second just adding more power (which would have been dumb), but then decided to shut it down. I wasn’t getting out of the plane with the thing spinning.
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