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flybynight
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AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:17 pm

As the MAX grounding now seems to be heading into 2020 and Boeing's management shakeup, it seems having a bunch of Airbus 320's and 321's in the fleet (NEO or otherwise) is a very fortunate turn of events for AS.
But has there been movement on AS going back to 737's-only? Boeing is obviously struggling. Putting all your eggs in the Boeing basket seems to be perhaps not the best strategy.
I get the reason for having an all 737 or all 320 fleet, but when difficulties arise, maybe having some diversity in the fleet is actually a good thing.
Also how is the A320's integration going? I see more and more of them at SEA.

Maybe AS is warming up to Airbus?
Heia Norge!
 
727LOVER
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:19 pm

Did AS have MAX on order?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
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flybynight
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:21 pm

727LOVER wrote:
Did AS have MAX on order?
Yes, deliveries should have started around June of this year.
Heia Norge!
 
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Vio
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:25 pm

All new airplanes have issues that need to be ironed out, but in the case of the 737 MAX (like the DC10 back in its day) it's a major concern that has cost the lives of hundreds of people and impacted even more. I'm wondering if the pressure to "deliver on time" takes precedence over safe, quality products. It seems a lot of new problems with airplanes and engines arise, on aircraft that theoretically shouldn't have them. Simulations, testing facilities and procedures, etc. are better than they have ever been. Why do we see so many new products being "recalled" or scrutinized?
Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
 
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zkojq
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:43 pm

Well according to our experts here at the time, the grounding just made it more likely that AS would order more MAXs! :lol:
First to fly the 787-9
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:37 pm

zkojq wrote:
Well according to our experts here at the time, the grounding just made it more likely that AS would order more MAXs! :lol:


Uh, it could still happen. AS has full confidence in the MAX and while their orders are for the MAX 9, the 10 is getting eyed as well, especially if Boeing were to throw considerable discounts at AS to get them back in the fold and out of the Airbus business.

Having said that, I believe the A320neo order becomes all A321neos, and AS continues to take up their MAX 9 orders, along with exercising their options. Beyond that, it's a wait-and-see game to determine what Boeing does in the MoM space and if Airbus continues to evolve the A321neo into something even greater.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
superbizzy73
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:22 pm

Wasn’t it stated a while ago by the AS CEO that, while they like what the A32* is doing for them, it doesn’t have a long term future with AS? (Thought I remember reading that somewhere...my memory is definitely not what it used to be.)
 
mrbots
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:26 pm

Isn't AS pretty committed to the 737 with the A320s (including orders) being inherited from Virgin? Though, with the MAX mess I'm sure most single type operator carriers are reevaluating the risk/reward of having a one type fleet.
 
GSPSPOT
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:27 pm

Vio wrote:
Simulations, testing facilities and procedures, etc. are better than they have ever been. Why do we see so many new products being "recalled" or scrutinized?

I was thinking the very same thing re: Max issues.
Great Lakes, great life.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:41 pm

You can rerun this thread: viewtopic.php?t=1420759
 
scoping2008
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:43 pm

superbizzy73 wrote:
Wasn’t it stated a while ago by the AS CEO that, while they like what the A32* is doing for them, it doesn’t have a long term future with AS? (Thought I remember reading that somewhere...my memory is definitely not what it used to be.)


It was an off-the-cuff remark awhile back from Brad Tilden speculating that if he had to guess, it would be an all-Boeing future.
 
Sancho99504
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:52 am

A320NEO's are supposed to arrive in 2020, no?

I personally think AS should switch the Max 9s to 8s and A320NEO to A321NEO. Sadly, neither Max 7 or A319NEO have the CASM to be highly profitable in AS's fleet, although I'm sure Boeing or Airbus could package a good deal on E190/5-E2 or A220-100/300.

It looks like only 12 of 73 A32x are owned, which means that the leased aircraft are a huge liability during a downturn.

CFO Brandon Pedersen said the A319 and A320 are redundant while the A321NEO gives them something that the 737s can't match. What that means is up for debate at this moment since I can't get into ATW for some reason.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:15 am

Alaska has sweetheart deal from Boeing written all over them. No doubt the lease rates on the A321neos will be sky high since they are in ultra high demand. But there's nothing they can do that the 737 can't do.
 
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:55 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Alaska has sweetheart deal from Boeing written all over them. No doubt the lease rates on the A321neos will be sky high since they are in ultra high demand. But there's nothing they can do that the 737 can't do.



Right now, the NEO can fly. Thats a lot more than the Max can do
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:59 am

jfklganyc wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Alaska has sweetheart deal from Boeing written all over them. No doubt the lease rates on the A321neos will be sky high since they are in ultra high demand. But there's nothing they can do that the 737 can't do.



Right now, the NEO can fly. Thats a lot more than the Max can do


There's an entire thread devoted to anti-Boeing rhetoric. Maybe go post there. Let's try and keep this one focused on AS and their fleet.
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:23 am

I think the MAX grounding may be less problematic for AS than others, as it gives them a breather from integrating new fleet types.
 
USAirKid
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:27 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Alaska has sweetheart deal from Boeing written all over them. No doubt the lease rates on the A321neos will be sky high since they are in ultra high demand. But there's nothing they can do that the 737 can't do.



Right now, the NEO can fly. Thats a lot more than the Max can do


There's an entire thread devoted to anti-Boeing rhetoric. Maybe go post there. Let's try and keep this one focused on AS and their fleet.


It isn’t anti Boeing rhetoric if it’s undeniably true.

I say this as a PNW native and a Boeing fan.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:30 am

USAirKid wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:


Right now, the NEO can fly. Thats a lot more than the Max can do


There's an entire thread devoted to anti-Boeing rhetoric. Maybe go post there. Let's try and keep this one focused on AS and their fleet.


It isn’t anti Boeing rhetoric if it’s undeniably true.

I say this as a PNW native and a Boeing fan.


He was stating something very obvious that everyone around here is very much aware of. We all know the Max is grounded. There was absolutely no reason for such a comment other than to take a swipe at Boeing.
 
Airbii
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:50 am

The 30 NEO orders were pushed off to 2022-2024. Lease returns have started, 1 left this year and next year 2 Buses will leave. It's highly doubtful AS will pursue a dual fleet future.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:45 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
USAirKid wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

There's an entire thread devoted to anti-Boeing rhetoric. Maybe go post there. Let's try and keep this one focused on AS and their fleet.


It isn’t anti Boeing rhetoric if it’s undeniably true.

I say this as a PNW native and a Boeing fan.


He was stating something very obvious that everyone around here is very much aware of. We all know the Max is grounded. There was absolutely no reason for such a comment other than to take a swipe at Boeing.



You guys are blinded by YOUR bias

He said “But there's nothing they can do that the 737 can't do.”


My response was entirely acceptable.

Right now NEOs are operating for operators. Not so for the Maxs

That is the entire premise for this thread. Does the Neo have better status with AS in the future due to current grounding?
 
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flybynight
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:29 pm

The AS MAX's were deferred to 2022 and beyond? I didn't know that.

I feel like AS will stick with Boeing (especially if there will be a 797 down the road, which seems like it would be a great fit for AS).
But, I really think the NEO, especially the 321 would be a mistake to walk away from for AS. If there is going to a 797, I would be willing to bet it would be closer to 2030 before it flies
Heia Norge!
 
snowzilla
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:00 pm

The NEO’s were pushed back beyond 2022, not the Max’s. They have 2 now stored in Moses Lake.
 
gmcc
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:51 pm

flybynight wrote:
The AS MAX's were deferred to 2022 and beyond? I didn't know that.

I feel like AS will stick with Boeing (especially if there will be a 797 down the road, which seems like it would be a great fit for AS).
But, I really think the NEO, especially the 321 would be a mistake to walk away from for AS. If there is going to a 797, I would be willing to bet it would be closer to 2030 before it flies


Not the MAX. The order for 30 A320NEO was deferred till 2022-2024. I am with EACOAS, the 320NEO, if taken, will be converted to to 321NEO.
It is possible that some of the MAXS might be taken with the balance of the order being converted to the clean sheet narrow body replacement. AS has a little wiggle room as the could opt to buy the exVA aircraft as they come off their leases or renew they at better rates.
 
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:10 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
USAirKid wrote:

It isn’t anti Boeing rhetoric if it’s undeniably true.

I say this as a PNW native and a Boeing fan.


He was stating something very obvious that everyone around here is very much aware of. We all know the Max is grounded. There was absolutely no reason for such a comment other than to take a swipe at Boeing.



You guys are blinded by YOUR bias

He said “But there's nothing they can do that the 737 can't do.”


My response was entirely acceptable.

Right now NEOs are operating for operators. Not so for the Maxs

That is the entire premise for this thread. Does the Neo have better status with AS in the future due to current grounding?


The A321neo can do a lot of things that the MAX 9 can't (and probably the MAX 10 won't be able to either, not as good anyway)...
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vadodara
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:16 pm

Only the 321NEO is of any advantage for AS; they have already determined and made necessary route adjustments.

Likely, the leases on the 320's dont get extended and the aircraft start to leave the fleet. The 321 decision is down the road so AS get's time to decide on the future.
 
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:07 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
No doubt the lease rates on the A321neos will be sky high since they are in ultra high demand. But there's nothing they can do that the 737 can't do.


Except there is. The sales numbers don't lie.
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TTailedTiger
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:19 pm

scbriml wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
No doubt the lease rates on the A321neos will be sky high since they are in ultra high demand. But there's nothing they can do that the 737 can't do.


Except there is. The sales numbers don't lie.


Tell me what AS would need them for? They fly the 737NG on their longest flights even though they have the 321 in the fleet.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:27 pm

I agree there is zero reason to take A320neos. AS is upgauging systemwide and doesn't need aircraft smaller than a 738. But they are doing a great job with the few A321neo frames they have and could easily find uses for more. If they take more Airbus frames, I agree they will be A321neos.

On the other hand, Boeing has much more incentive than Airbus to sell planes to Alaska, given the enormous Airbus backlog and the MAX situation. Under these extraordinary circumstances, there may be potential for a deal that's in Boeing's interest and yet is compelling enough to AS that AS would dispose of its A321neo fleet and A320neo orders.
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:31 pm

flybynight wrote:
I get the reason for having an all 737 or all 320 fleet, but when difficulties arise, maybe having some diversity in the fleet is actually a good thing.


The flip side to that strategy is that I am sure that Alaska Airlines could get a good deal on extra MAXs at present. Likewise they could probably sell those Virgin America orders for A320neos at a profit to some airline that can't wait. The phrase "all in" does apply to business as well as poker.

They announce third qtr result tomorrow, but so far this year they have been holding their own with a slight improvement over last year

Operating Revenue
2018 1 $1,831,218
2018 2 $2,154,720
2018 3 $2,210,301
2018 4 $2,063,568

2019 1 $1,874,887
2019 2 $2,286,496

Net Income
2018 1 $15,868
2018 2 $215,165
2018 3 $229,800
2018 4 $47,926

2019 1 $17,407
2019 2 $256,378

As far as I can tell they don't have to retire any jets until the first leases on the old Virgin America Airbus jets come true, so they can maintain the status quo for a year or more. They delayed the initial delivery until June of 2019, so they are not stuck with dead metal like United, American, or Southwest.

Oldest jets in mainline airlines
MD88 Delta's delivered in April 1987
B752 United's delivered in Sep 1989
B752 American's delivered in Aug 1993
B737 Southwest's delivered in Feb 1997
A320 Allegiant's delivered in Aug 1997
B717 Hawaiian Airlines inter- island jet, first flight 26 Oct 1998
B737 Alaska Airlines delivered in Jul 1999
A320 Jet Blue's delivered in Dec 1999
B737 Sun Country delivered in Nov 2000
A319 Frontier's delivered in Jul 2002
A319 Spirit Airlines's delivered in Mar 2005
A330 Hawaiian Airlines mainland jet, first flight 26 Mar 2010
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:47 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
Tell me what AS would need them for? They fly the 737NG on their longest flights even though they have the 321 in the fleet.


For their direct flights from Anchorage to Tokyo connecting with JAL, or Helsinki connecting with FinnAir...

Ok. You're right. They don't need em.

*kicks can*
 
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:52 pm

727LOVER wrote:
Did AS have MAX on order?

They do. They have like 50 or more MAX 9 on order. Should have started deliveries earlier this year, but the grounding of the type has cause a disruption in air travel.
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
 
DCAfan
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:45 am

NameOmitted wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Tell me what AS would need them for? They fly the 737NG on their longest flights even though they have the 321 in the fleet.


For their direct flights from Anchorage to Tokyo connecting with JAL, or Helsinki connecting with FinnAir...

Ok. You're right. They don't need em.

*kicks can*


They need the A321's for DCA. Next summer all of their beyond perimeter flights at DCA will be operated with A321's. The 737-900ER cannot operate transcons at DCA due to the fact that the runways there are too short.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:05 am

DCAfan wrote:
NameOmitted wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Tell me what AS would need them for? They fly the 737NG on their longest flights even though they have the 321 in the fleet.


For their direct flights from Anchorage to Tokyo connecting with JAL, or Helsinki connecting with FinnAir...

Ok. You're right. They don't need em.

*kicks can*


They need the A321's for DCA. Next summer all of their beyond perimeter flights at DCA will be operated with A321's. The 737-900ER cannot operate transcons at DCA due to the fact that the runways there are too short.


You'd be wise to check before you make these posts. The AS 739 has operated out of DCA. Furthermore, you don't have a fleet of aircraft for just one airport. AS could have ordered the A321 long before acquiring Virgin America if they had wanted it.
 
Virtual737
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:28 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
But there's nothing they can do that the 737 can't do.


TTailedTiger wrote:
There's an entire thread devoted to anti-Boeing rhetoric. Maybe go post there. Let's try and keep this one focused on AS and their fleet.


TTailedTiger wrote:
He was stating something very obvious that everyone around here is very much aware of. We all know the Max is grounded. There was absolutely no reason for such a comment other than to take a swipe at Boeing.


Oh come on. You were bigging up the MAX while it is still grounded and someone posted a pretty obvious but nonetheless 100% factually accurate answer. Rather than move along you pull the "anti-Boeing".card. That's so ridiculous as to be funny.

To answer the original statement, there are definitely things the 737 can do that the NEO cannot, even if you don't want them too.
 
RWRCAS
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:54 am

The NG is a good aircraft. The MAX will most likely be another good aircraft. But A321 neo, has more seats, longer range out of short fields, then the 737-900 or the MAX 9. Alaska uses 737-800 out of DCA most of the time because the 737-900 is limited, especially in the summer's higher temperatures to go the distance with all of its seats filled. The shorter landing gear and the smaller diameter fan of the MAX makes it inferior to the A321 neo in short field long distance flying. The 737 NG and MAX should have a long life with Alaska and works well on the majority of Alaska's current routes. But for DCA to the West Coast and Florida to the Pacific Northwest, and what ever new long haul markets that Alaska may consider in the future, the A321 neo may find a long life at Alaska as well.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:01 am

RWRCAS wrote:
The NG is a good aircraft. The MAX will most likely be another good aircraft. But A321 neo, has more seats, longer range out of short fields, then the 737-900 or the MAX 9. Alaska uses 737-800 out of DCA most of the time because the 737-900 is limited, especially in the summer's higher temperatures to go the distance with all of its seats filled. The shorter landing gear and the smaller diameter fan of the MAX makes it inferior to the A321 neo in short field long distance flying. The 737 NG and MAX should have a long life with Alaska and works well on the majority of Alaska's current routes. But for DCA to the West Coast and Florida to the Pacific Northwest, and what ever new long haul markets that Alaska may consider in the future, the A321 neo may find a long life at Alaska as well.


What short field airports does Alaska operate out of in Florida? Both Delta and Alaska operate the 739 on MCO-SEA. The only airport in Florida with commercial airline traffic that has a short runway is KEYW. And if you try and land a 321 there you'll likely be a fatality stat in an NTSB report.
 
RWRCAS
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:28 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
RWRCAS wrote:
The NG is a good aircraft. The MAX will most likely be another good aircraft. But A321 neo, has more seats, longer range out of short fields, then the 737-900 or the MAX 9. Alaska uses 737-800 out of DCA most of the time because the 737-900 is limited, especially in the summer's higher temperatures to go the distance with all of its seats filled. The shorter landing gear and the smaller diameter fan of the MAX makes it inferior to the A321 neo in short field long distance flying. The 737 NG and MAX should have a long life with Alaska and works well on the majority of Alaska's current routes. But for DCA to the West Coast and Florida to the Pacific Northwest, and what ever new long haul markets that Alaska may consider in the future, the A321 neo may find a long life at Alaska as well.


What short field airports does Alaska operate out of in Florida? Both Delta and Alaska operate the 739 on MCO-SEA. The only airport in Florida with commercial airline traffic that has a short runway is KEYW. And if you try and land a 321 there you'll likely be a fatality stat in an NTSB report.


I guess I wasn't specific. Florida being a long distance, not necessarily short field. FLL-SEA is kind of at the upper limit for the 737-900 ER in the winter when the Jetstream is cutting from the NW to the SE. Lihue does come to mind for another short field that is challenging for the 737 to do ETOPs with a full load.
 
QXorVX
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:14 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:

You'd be wise to check before you make these posts. The AS 739 has operated out of DCA. Furthermore, you don't have a fleet of aircraft for just one airport. AS could have ordered the A321 long before acquiring Virgin America if they had wanted it.


Having landed there and having departed there with a full load are two different things. The fact all DCA operations are becoming A21N makes it clear the B739 is not the aircraft for that mission considering the options available.

The A321neo's capabilities are not just shorter field performance, it is a very efficient aircraft plus a capacity boost over the -900ER. If the VX acquisition never happened and AS was still a 100% 737 fleet, I think it would be silly to consider the capabilities of adding the A32Xneo to the fleet. But it did, so why not take advantage of the efficiency and capacity. If the Airbus fleet dwindles too much the economics of a small subfleet might start to make it no longer worth it, but as of yet no one said that was happening. I think there is a sweet spot for a A21N in AS's network... unless the B737-MAX10 will eventually fill that gap :)
 
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:56 pm

QXorVX wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

You'd be wise to check before you make these posts. The AS 739 has operated out of DCA. Furthermore, you don't have a fleet of aircraft for just one airport. AS could have ordered the A321 long before acquiring Virgin America if they had wanted it.


Having landed there and having departed there with a full load are two different things. The fact all DCA operations are becoming A21N makes it clear the B739 is not the aircraft for that mission considering the options available.

The A321neo's capabilities are not just shorter field performance, it is a very efficient aircraft plus a capacity boost over the -900ER. If the VX acquisition never happened and AS was still a 100% 737 fleet, I think it would be silly to consider the capabilities of adding the A32Xneo to the fleet. But it did, so why not take advantage of the efficiency and capacity. If the Airbus fleet dwindles too much the economics of a small subfleet might start to make it no longer worth it, but as of yet no one said that was happening. I think there is a sweet spot for a A21N in AS's network... unless the B737-MAX10 will eventually fill that gap :)


Couldn't have said it better myself :)
Plane mad!
 
BOSAero
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:06 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Alaska has sweetheart deal from Boeing written all over them. No doubt the lease rates on the A321neos will be sky high since they are in ultra high demand. But there's nothing they can do that the 737 can't do.



Right now, the NEO can fly. Thats a lot more than the Max can do


There's an entire thread devoted to anti-Boeing rhetoric. Maybe go post there. Let's try and keep this one focused on AS and their fleet.


Right now, AS NEO can fly. That’s a lot more than the AS Max can do.
 
TW787
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:11 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:

Tell me what AS would need them for? They fly the 737NG on their longest flights even though they have the 321 in the fleet.


Not to call you out, as you're hardly the only one on the site that thinks this way, but nothing in an airline is black and white, or as simple as it seems. Can the Max 8 and Max 9 (assuming it is allowed to fly) perform the same missions as the A321 Neo? For the most part, yes. But there's several reasons the A321 Neo is better. For instance, can the Max 8 fly from OGG to the mainland (runway length in OGG is an issue)? Yes it can. But it can only carry I think 160 passengers in AS configuration. But the A321 Neo can carry 190. Same thing for DCA - the Max 9 cannot operate there. The 8 can, but again you only have 160 seats. A321 Neo can do it with a full boat of 190. So it's not only the operational performance, it is the economics of the airplane. The Max 10 is Boeing's attempt to get more seats to try to mitigate this issue, but it won't have the range of the 321.

And while for the layperson it may seem simple just to put the 321 on the "longest flights" in reality it isn't that simple to execute, especially with a current fleet of only 10 A321s. The airplane just can't fly long missions and be crew efficient, be on the highest demand flights, get to MX locations, and be utilized effectively. If and when the fleet gets bigger, this might be more of a possibility.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:09 pm

I realize that with only 10 aircraft flexibility is limited. But given the yields and slot limitations out of DCA I'm a bit surprised that they haven't scheduled the A321neos for as many DCA legs as possible. Instead they have been flying a variety of stuff, with some DCA, but also some transcon and west coast routes that could be covered by 737-900ERs.
 
QXAS
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:27 pm

As far as I’m aware, the 321s are doing very well for AS. Great yields, pax love them, etc.. I’d expect the 321N to stay in the fleet for a long time. I also expect at least some of the 30 320neos to be converted to 321Neos. I do not expect AS to take delivery of a 320neo. The 738 can do everything that AS would otherwise need the 320neo to do, with more seats. Additionally the conversion of Max 8 to Max 9 indicates where AS wants their standard aircraft size to be.
I am NOT an employee of any airline or manufacturer. I speak for myself, not on the behalf of any company.
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:28 am

How many 321s have AS interiors?
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:58 am

QXAS wrote:
As far as I’m aware, the 321s are doing very well for AS. Great yields, pax love them, etc.. I’d expect the 321N to stay in the fleet for a long time. I also expect at least some of the 30 320neos to be converted to 321Neos. I do not expect AS to take delivery of a 320neo. The 738 can do everything that AS would otherwise need the 320neo to do, with more seats. Additionally the conversion of Max 8 to Max 9 indicates where AS wants their standard aircraft size to be.


VX was not a financially healthy airline. Those Airbus have some very high lease rates. And I highly doubt AS would be able to negotiate better terms since the leasing company can just pitch them to another airline who will pay those high lease rates or more.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:03 pm

NameOmitted wrote:
How many 321s have AS interiors?


8 of the 10 have already been refitted and one more is in for refit. The only one still flying with the VX interior is 921.
 
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flybynight
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:04 pm

seabosdca wrote:
NameOmitted wrote:
How many 321s have AS interiors?


8 of the 10 have already been refitted and one more is in for refit. The only one still flying with the VX interior is 921.


I just flew on one. Just a short flight from PDX to SEA. Those big white seats sure have a lot of legroom.
Heia Norge!
 
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flybynight
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:06 pm

seabosdca wrote:
I realize that with only 10 aircraft flexibility is limited. But given the yields and slot limitations out of DCA I'm a bit surprised that they haven't scheduled the A321neos for as many DCA legs as possible. Instead they have been flying a variety of stuff, with some DCA, but also some transcon and west coast routes that could be covered by 737-900ERs.
Seems the 321NEO's would be good to the Big Island as well. Or Hawaii in general, at least from SEA.
Not a lot of range left for a 900ER heading/coming back from Kona.

I wonder if a NEO has the range to make it to Costa Rico from the PNW
Heia Norge!
 
Varsity1
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:15 pm

The Max 9 has a higher thrust to weight ratio and better field performance than the 900ER. Below 3000 miles it's closer to a 737-800NG.
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WeAreUnited
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Re: AS MAX impact and the NEO's future

Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:10 pm

seabosdca wrote:
I realize that with only 10 aircraft flexibility is limited. But given the yields and slot limitations out of DCA I'm a bit surprised that they haven't scheduled the A321neos for as many DCA legs as possible. Instead they have been flying a variety of stuff, with some DCA, but also some transcon and west coast routes that could be covered by 737-900ERs.


As of 11/5; all 5 flights (2x SEA, PDX, SFO, LAX) to/from DCA will be on the 321.

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