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bob75013
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Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:41 pm

Tried to find the Lion Air thread so I could add this to it. Could not find it...

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/pictures ... 33675.html


"Weeks after a Lion Air jet crashed in the Java Sea, killing all 189 aboard, an airline employee gave investigators photographs meant to show that a crucial repair had been properly performed the day before the disaster.

Yet the pictures may not show what was claimed.

The time displayed in photos of a computer screen in the cockpit of the Boeing Co. 737 Max indicated they had actually been taken before the repair was performed, according to a draft of the final crash report being prepared by Indonesia’s National Transportation Safety Committee, portions of which were reviewed by Bloomberg News."

...

Portions of the draft reviewed by Bloomberg News say an engineer gave the photos to investigators to show that the replacement of a sensor on the plane on Oct. 28 had been done properly. The sensor, known as an “angle-of-attack” vane, was malfunctioning on the very next flight as well as the one the next day that crashed and is at the heart of the investigation, according to an NTSC preliminary report released last November.

Some of the images were taken of the inside of an equipment compartment where the faulty sensor was attached, according to the people familiar with the investigation. Part of the calibration process occurs in that location.

Visible in the background of these photos was other equipment with identification marks, the people said. Officials at Boeing were able to trace at least one of the devices to a different 737 Max jet operated by Lion Air, they said.

Other photos were shot in a 737 Max cockpit, where mechanics check to see that the sensor is providing accurate readings, the people said. Those photos showed the captain’s flight display, but the time shown on its digital clock was prior to the repair being performed, according to the draft report."
 
KFLLCFII
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:54 pm

So let me get this straight...A Lion Air employee allegedly may have given false evidence to investigators after their crash, and Ethiopian allegedly may have entered the maintenance logs of the accident aircraft after their crash?

A couple winners there.
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
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enilria
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:08 pm

KFLLCFII wrote:
So let me get this straight...A Lion Air employee allegedly may have given false evidence to investigators after their crash, and Ethiopian allegedly may have entered the maintenance logs of the accident aircraft after their crash?

A couple winners there.

One winner: Boeing
 
TropicalSky
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:14 pm

This is troubling
 
musman9853
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:34 pm

enilria wrote:
KFLLCFII wrote:
So let me get this straight...A Lion Air employee allegedly may have given false evidence to investigators after their crash, and Ethiopian allegedly may have entered the maintenance logs of the accident aircraft after their crash?

A couple winners there.

One winner: Boeing


Boeing can't really capitalize on this without appearing to shift blame, which would probably look really bad.
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Antarius
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:40 pm

enilria wrote:
KFLLCFII wrote:
So let me get this straight...A Lion Air employee allegedly may have given false evidence to investigators after their crash, and Ethiopian allegedly may have entered the maintenance logs of the accident aircraft after their crash?

A couple winners there.

One winner: Boeing


Not really. Boeing screwed up, that's indisputable. Even if Lion Air shortcomings contributed to this specific crash as well, it was only a matter of time before a non-redundant system fails.

It does shift sole responsibility away from Boeing to some degree, but that's a nuanced distinction that is materially irrelevant to the public.
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GlobalAirways
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:43 pm

All settlements between Airlines and Manufacturer will be closed door...
There is little difference in people, but that little difference makes a big difference. The little difference is attitude. The big difference is whether it is positive or negative. ~ W. Clement Stone
 
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enilria
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:23 pm

Antarius wrote:
enilria wrote:
KFLLCFII wrote:
So let me get this straight...A Lion Air employee allegedly may have given false evidence to investigators after their crash, and Ethiopian allegedly may have entered the maintenance logs of the accident aircraft after their crash?

A couple winners there.

One winner: Boeing


Not really. Boeing screwed up, that's indisputable. Even if Lion Air shortcomings contributed to this specific crash as well, it was only a matter of time before a non-redundant system fails.

It does shift sole responsibility away from Boeing to some degree, but that's a nuanced distinction that is materially irrelevant to the public.

I'm talking legal liability. Anything that helps with that at this point is a big deal.
 
birdbrainz
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:25 pm

All this will do is underscore Boeing's responsibility to build an airplane that will still fly safely if some airline maintenance goons manage to bolt the engines on backwards.

On the other hand, if true, it validates at least part of what William Langewiesche said about lax maintenance at some carriers.

I hope that in the final analysis, the blame for these two accidents is spread around so that everyone involved can look at how the entire system broke down in these cases. Even if Boeing fixes the MAX, it's just a matter of time until another one augers in because other parts of the system are still broken.
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enzo011
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:54 pm

birdbrainz wrote:
All this will do is underscore Boeing's responsibility to build an airplane that will still fly safely if some airline maintenance goons manage to bolt the engines on backwards.

On the other hand, if true, it validates at least part of what William Langewiesche said about lax maintenance at some carriers.

I hope that in the final analysis, the blame for these two accidents is spread around so that everyone involved can look at how the entire system broke down in these cases. Even if Boeing fixes the MAX, it's just a matter of time until another one augers in because other parts of the system are still broken.


I think you mean the causes are found and identified and solutions are worked on to make flying even safer for everyone, right?
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:55 pm

It seemed to me from the outset that LionAir did not repair the AOA probe, even though they claim to have. There was a similar issue on the prior flight with ET. Even if that is true, a single faulty AOA vane should not lead to this catastrophic sequence of events.
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MIflyer12
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:03 pm

enilria wrote:
Antarius wrote:
enilria wrote:
One winner: Boeing


Not really. Boeing screwed up, that's indisputable. Even if Lion Air shortcomings contributed to this specific crash as well, it was only a matter of time before a non-redundant system fails.

It does shift sole responsibility away from Boeing to some degree, but that's a nuanced distinction that is materially irrelevant to the public.

I'm talking legal liability. Anything that helps with that at this point is a big deal.


It will be a very big deal for cases winding up in U.S. courts or arbitration.
 
Checklist787
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:03 pm

Antarius wrote:
enilria wrote:
KFLLCFII wrote:
So let me get this straight...A Lion Air employee allegedly may have given false evidence to investigators after their crash, and Ethiopian allegedly may have entered the maintenance logs of the accident aircraft after their crash?

A couple winners there.

One winner: Boeing


Not really. Boeing screwed up, that's indisputable. Even if Lion Air shortcomings contributed to this specific crash as well, it was only a matter of time before a non-redundant system fails.

It does shift sole responsibility away from Boeing to some degree, but that's a nuanced distinction that is materially irrelevant to the public.


I do not agree.

At the moment it is it does not deserve a grounding!
"No limit to my poooWer!!!
Do it! "...
 
9w748capt
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:09 pm

Checklist787 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
enilria wrote:
One winner: Boeing


Not really. Boeing screwed up, that's indisputable. Even if Lion Air shortcomings contributed to this specific crash as well, it was only a matter of time before a non-redundant system fails.

It does shift sole responsibility away from Boeing to some degree, but that's a nuanced distinction that is materially irrelevant to the public.


I do not agree.

At the moment it is it does not deserve a grounding!


Hahaha was just a matter of time until a post like this. I trust the FAA will be recertifying the MAX any time today, and they'll be back in service tomorrow! Dougie will be thrilled that he can finally cram his F passengers into his Oasis.
 
VV
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:13 pm

What's next?

Fake qualification?
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:16 pm

GlobalAirways wrote:
All settlements between Airlines and Manufacturer will be closed door...

As they (almost) always are.
 
Antarius
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:17 pm

Checklist787 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
enilria wrote:
One winner: Boeing


Not really. Boeing screwed up, that's indisputable. Even if Lion Air shortcomings contributed to this specific crash as well, it was only a matter of time before a non-redundant system fails.

It does shift sole responsibility away from Boeing to some degree, but that's a nuanced distinction that is materially irrelevant to the public.


I do not agree.

At the moment it is it does not deserve a grounding!


It is a flawed design that very much deserves a grounding. Yes, there are workarounds to the problem that should have been followed, but that doesnt mean the design flaws can be ignored.

Lessons learned all around hopefully.
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Antarius
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:18 pm

enilria wrote:
Antarius wrote:
enilria wrote:
One winner: Boeing


Not really. Boeing screwed up, that's indisputable. Even if Lion Air shortcomings contributed to this specific crash as well, it was only a matter of time before a non-redundant system fails.

It does shift sole responsibility away from Boeing to some degree, but that's a nuanced distinction that is materially irrelevant to the public.

I'm talking legal liability. Anything that helps with that at this point is a big deal.


Understood. Yes, you are correct.
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barney captain
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:19 pm

Antarius wrote:
enilria wrote:
KFLLCFII wrote:
So let me get this straight...A Lion Air employee allegedly may have given false evidence to investigators after their crash, and Ethiopian allegedly may have entered the maintenance logs of the accident aircraft after their crash?

A couple winners there.

One winner: Boeing


Not really. Boeing screwed up, that's indisputable. Even if Lion Air shortcomings contributed to this specific crash as well, it was only a matter of time before a non-redundant system fails.

It does shift sole responsibility away from Boeing to some degree, but that's a nuanced distinction that is materially irrelevant to the public.



"Sole" responsibility? Please.

In the history of aviation accidents, there's never been just a single link in the accident chain.

Training, maintenance and yes, even design, all played a role.
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zeke
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:20 pm

These sort of articles cannot be read in isolation,.

The AOA probe that was removed from the aircraft (the part S/N is known at time of manufacture) was sent back to the manufacturer after the accident for analysis.

Before suggesting no maintenance was done to this aircraft, I would caution drawing such a rapid conclusion unless you can explain how the AOA probe that was installed on the aircraft when manufactured was not on the aircraft when crashed, and how maintenance release tag from a avionics shop based in the US for the replacement probe happened to be in Lion Airs possession.
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Checklist787
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:24 pm

Antarius wrote:
Checklist787 wrote:
Antarius wrote:

Not really. Boeing screwed up, that's indisputable. Even if Lion Air shortcomings contributed to this specific crash as well, it was only a matter of time before a non-redundant system fails.

It does shift sole responsibility away from Boeing to some degree, but that's a nuanced distinction that is materially irrelevant to the public.


I do not agree.

At the moment it is it does not deserve a grounding!


It is a flawed design that very much deserves a grounding. Yes, there are workarounds to the problem that should have been followed, but that doesnt mean the design flaws can be ignored.

Lessons learned all around hopefully.


No, if the Lion Air affair is true, it is very serious.

This would mean that ONLY Ethiopian was really a victim.

In this case, 1 crash for the 737Max.

1 crash = zero grounding!!
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Do it! "...
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:28 pm

You hope this isn't true. However the allegation does fall inline with JT's claim that they repaired the AOA vane prior to the final flight, but it clearly wasn't fixed.
 
Antarius
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:29 pm

Checklist787 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
Checklist787 wrote:

I do not agree.

At the moment it is it does not deserve a grounding!


It is a flawed design that very much deserves a grounding. Yes, there are workarounds to the problem that should have been followed, but that doesnt mean the design flaws can be ignored.

Lessons learned all around hopefully.


No, if the Lion Air affair is true, it is very serious.

This would mean that ONLY Ethiopian was really a victim.

In this case, 1 crash for the 737Max.

1 crash = zero grounding!!


1 crash with a proven cause = yes grounding.
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WayexTDI
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:47 pm

Checklist787 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
Checklist787 wrote:

I do not agree.

At the moment it is it does not deserve a grounding!


It is a flawed design that very much deserves a grounding. Yes, there are workarounds to the problem that should have been followed, but that doesnt mean the design flaws can be ignored.

Lessons learned all around hopefully.


No, if the Lion Air affair is true, it is very serious.

This would mean that ONLY Ethiopian was really a victim.

In this case, 1 crash for the 737Max.

1 crash = zero grounding!!

So, based on this, the 787 grounding due to the battery issues was unwarranted? I'm gonna have to go ahead and sort of disagree with you there (in the voice of Bill Lumbergh)...
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:50 pm

Antarius wrote:
1 crash with a proven cause = yes grounding.


The MAX had a lone crash with a known contributing cause. No grounding.
 
Antarius
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:57 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
Antarius wrote:
1 crash with a proven cause = yes grounding.


The MAX had a lone crash with a known contributing cause. No grounding.


Not entirely true. In hindsight, yes - but at the time between the odd flight pattern of the previous flight and JT's less than stellar record, it wasn't clear at the time.

Over time, it became clear.
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zeke
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:59 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
You hope this isn't true. However the allegation does fall inline with JT's claim that they repaired the AOA vane prior to the final flight, but it clearly wasn't fixed.


No the maintenance records show the probe was removed and replaced. The probe that was installed on the aircraft when manufactured at Boeing was not on the aircraft when it crashed. That probe was sent back to the manufacturer in the US by the investigators.

The conclusions being drawn here are forgetting the physical evidence that proves that the probe was removed, it was removed in Bali. From Bali to Jakarta the replacement probe was operational a sector before the accident flight.
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birdbrainz
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:01 pm

enzo011 wrote:
birdbrainz wrote:
All this will do is underscore Boeing's responsibility to build an airplane that will still fly safely if some airline maintenance goons manage to bolt the engines on backwards.

On the other hand, if true, it validates at least part of what William Langewiesche said about lax maintenance at some carriers.

I hope that in the final analysis, the blame for these two accidents is spread around so that everyone involved can look at how the entire system broke down in these cases. Even if Boeing fixes the MAX, it's just a matter of time until another one augers in because other parts of the system are still broken.


I think you mean the causes are found and identified and solutions are worked on to make flying even safer for everyone, right?


Correct. Sorry for not being clearer. Boeing and the FAA bear a lot of the responsibility, but a lot of other proximal causes have been identified. If those aren't also identified and addressed, we're doing ourselves a great disservice.
A good landing is one you can walk away from. A great landing is if the aircraft can be flown again.
 
Checklist787
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:01 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
Checklist787 wrote:
Antarius wrote:

It is a flawed design that very much deserves a grounding. Yes, there are workarounds to the problem that should have been followed, but that doesnt mean the design flaws can be ignored.

Lessons learned all around hopefully.


No, if the Lion Air affair is true, it is very serious.

This would mean that ONLY Ethiopian was really a victim.

In this case, 1 crash for the 737Max.

1 crash = zero grounding!!

So, based on this, the 787 grounding due to the battery issues was unwarranted? I'm gonna have to go ahead and sort of disagree with you there (in the voice of Bill Lumbergh)...


Do not say what we do not say.

The 787 Dreamliner had issue with TWO Dreamliner's, Two! (ANA and JAL)
Last edited by Checklist787 on Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Antarius
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:03 pm

zeke wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
You hope this isn't true. However the allegation does fall inline with JT's claim that they repaired the AOA vane prior to the final flight, but it clearly wasn't fixed.


No the maintenance records show the probe was removed and replaced. The probe that was installed on the aircraft when manufactured at Boeing was not on the aircraft when it crashed. That probe was sent back to the manufacturer in the US by the investigators.

The conclusions being drawn here are forgetting the physical evidence that proves that the probe was removed, it was removed in Bali. From Bali to Jakarta the replacement probe was operational a sector before the accident flight.


The Bali to CGK flight had problems too, they just had a pilot who knew to use the stab trim cutout.

Not really what I would describe as an operational probe.
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MSPNWA
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:04 pm

Antarius wrote:
Not entirely true. In hindsight, yes - but at the time between the odd flight pattern of the previous flight and JT's less than stellar record, it wasn't clear at the time.

Over time, it became clear.


It doesn't take hindsight. It was clear that MCAS had a role in one crash well before ET302. EADs aren't issued for nothing. And besides, crashes are always filled with unknowns until the lengthy investigative process hepefully uncovers all the facts.

What this year has shown us is that one crash is okay. Two with a common link is not. The MAX may be grounded to fix MCAS and prevent another crash, but it's certainly not grounded completely due to MCAS. And yes, that means it may be grounded in part due to Lion Air's faulty maintenance.
 
Antarius
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:08 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
Antarius wrote:
Not entirely true. In hindsight, yes - but at the time between the odd flight pattern of the previous flight and JT's less than stellar record, it wasn't clear at the time.

Over time, it became clear.


It doesn't take hindsight. It was clear that MCAS had a role in one crash well before ET302. EADs aren't issued for nothing. And besides, crashes are always filled with unknowns until the lengthy investigative process hepefully uncovers all the facts.

What this year has shown us is that one crash is okay. Two with a common link is not. The MAX may be grounded to fix MCAS and prevent another crash, but it's certainly not grounded completely due to MCAS. And yes, that means it may be grounded in part due to Lion Air's faulty maintenance.


It had a role, but was it a role enough to ground it was unclear. Two crashes with similarities will definitely accelerate the grounding due to more data.

I guess my point is, if there was only one crash and the NTSB found out that MCAS was using a single AoA sensor, I expect the aircraft would be grounded in this case as well to prevent a second one from happening.
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September11
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:10 pm

737MAX grounded for 6 months and 22 days (and counting)
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Antarius
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:11 pm

September11 wrote:
737MAX grounded for 6 months and 22 days (and counting)


And this is relevant to the topic how?
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MSPNWA
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:12 pm

zeke wrote:
No the maintenance records show the probe was removed and replaced. The probe that was installed on the aircraft when manufactured at Boeing was not on the aircraft when it crashed. That probe was sent back to the manufacturer in the US by the investigators.

The conclusions being drawn here are forgetting the physical evidence that proves that the probe was removed, it was removed in Bali. From Bali to Jakarta the replacement probe was operational a sector before the accident flight.


I think you need to read the articles. On/off is not proof that the issue was handled correctly (and the system clearly wasn't fixed on the next flight). In fact, your statement is simply a diversion from the issue in question (calibration). But as I've stated before, your statements have zero credibility with me, and this obviously won't change that.
 
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zeke
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:13 pm

Antarius wrote:

The Bali to CGK flight had problems too, they just had a pilot who knew to use the stab trim cutout.

Not really what I would describe as an operational probe.


MCAS can trigger even with a valid AOA probe, that is the problem with the single sensor design.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
Checklist787
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:13 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
Antarius wrote:
Not entirely true. In hindsight, yes - but at the time between the odd flight pattern of the previous flight and JT's less than stellar record, it wasn't clear at the time.

Over time, it became clear.


It doesn't take hindsight. It was clear that MCAS had a role in one crash well before ET302. EADs aren't issued for nothing. And besides, crashes are always filled with unknowns until the lengthy investigative process hepefully uncovers all the facts.

What this year has shown us is that one crash is okay. Two with a common link is not. The MAX may be grounded to fix MCAS and prevent another crash, but it's certainly not grounded completely due to MCAS. And yes, that means it may be grounded in part due to Lion Air's faulty maintenance.


Find yourself normal that an airline like SouthWest had 31 737Max's in service (the most 737MAX aircraft).

Air Canada and American Airlines have both 24 Max's in service (they are the second largest number of Max's delivered after SouthWest!)

Lion Air operated only 14 and Ethiopian only 5!
There is not something that challenges you??
Do you believe in chance?

No, I think Lion Air [b] is a bunch of incompetent people who are hiding behind the second crash. /b]

That's what I think.
A strip of null :banghead:
Last edited by Checklist787 on Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:30 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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litz
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:16 pm

Antarius wrote:
The Bali to CGK flight had problems too, they just had a pilot who knew to use the stab trim cutout.

Not really what I would describe as an operational probe.


"Problems" is pretty vastly understating things. That Bali flight could easily have ended up as the accident flight.

They flew ALL THE WAY TO CGK with the stab trim cut out, and an active captain's side stick shaker.
 
Antarius
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:18 pm

litz wrote:
Antarius wrote:
The Bali to CGK flight had problems too, they just had a pilot who knew to use the stab trim cutout.

Not really what I would describe as an operational probe.


"Problems" is pretty vastly understating things. That Bali flight could easily have ended up as the accident flight.

They flew ALL THE WAY TO CGK with the stab trim cut out, and an active captain's side stick shaker.


Yup. And the aircraft was clearly not fixed
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zeke
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:20 pm

MSPNWA wrote:

I think you need to read the articles. On/off is not proof that the issue was handled correctly (and the system clearly wasn't fixed on the next flight). In fact, your statement is simply a diversion from the issue in question (calibration). But as I've stated before, your statements have zero credibility with me, and this obviously won't change that.


No the issue is you do not know what you are talking about.

AOA probes are precision instruments which are only calibrated in a approved repair shop. You cannot calibrate an AOA probe on an aircraft as the attitude of the aircraft varies depending on the load in the aircraft, the pressure in the struts, the wind, the amount of tread on the tyres, the amount of fall on the pavement etc.

AOA probes are calibrated only in one place, that is in an avionics shop where everything is controlled. The replacement probe that was installed on the aircraft had a release tag from the avionics shop in Florida where it was calibrated.
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Checklist787
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:24 pm

And the winner iiiis.....

BOEING!!!
Last edited by Checklist787 on Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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eamondzhang
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:28 pm

Checklist787 wrote:
1 crash = zero grounding!!

What a flawed logic.

Boeing 787 had exactly zero crashes that resulted in exactly 0 fatalities. And yet it is grounded because a proven design flaw.

Explain why Boeing 737 MAX, with a proven design flaw that kills 346 people, should NOT be grounded?

Michael
 
Antarius
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:31 pm

zeke wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:

I think you need to read the articles. On/off is not proof that the issue was handled correctly (and the system clearly wasn't fixed on the next flight). In fact, your statement is simply a diversion from the issue in question (calibration). But as I've stated before, your statements have zero credibility with me, and this obviously won't change that.


No the issue is you do not know what you are talking about.

AOA probes are precision instruments which are only calibrated in a approved repair shop. You cannot calibrate an AOA probe on an aircraft as the attitude of the aircraft varies depending on the load in the aircraft, the pressure in the struts, the wind, the amount of tread on the tyres, the amount of fall on the pavement etc.

AOA probes are calibrated only in one place, that is in an avionics shop where everything is controlled. The replacement probe that was installed on the aircraft had a release tag from the avionics shop in Florida where it was calibrated.


What is the relevance here. Whether or not they changed the probe in Bali is irrelevant as the problem occurred from Bali to CGK.

It isnt like the probe was changed and immediately the problem occurred. What happened (or didn't happen) in CGK?
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Checklist787
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:36 pm

eamondzhang wrote:
Checklist787 wrote:
1 crash = zero grounding!!

What a flawed logic.

Boeing 787 had exactly zero crashes that resulted in exactly 0 fatalities. And yet it is grounded because a proven design flaw.

Explain why Boeing 737 MAX, with a proven design flaw that kills 346 people, should NOT be grounded?

Michael


Have you read the subject? I hope you are joking.

Have you read the article ??

It was not Boeing who killed the 346 passengers. We talk about lack of maintenance at Lion Air.

Why you deni the evidence part of Lion Air?

Maybe because they are a strip of null? :roll:
Last edited by Checklist787 on Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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zeke
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:37 pm

Antarius wrote:

What is the relevance here. Whether or not they changed the probe in Bali is irrelevant as the problem occurred from Bali to CGK.

It isnt like the probe was changed and immediately the problem occurred. What happened (or didn't happen) in CGK?


The relevance is this is what the OP is about:” an airline employee gave investigators photographs meant to show that a crucial repair had been properly performed the day before the disaster.”

This thread is not about the accident flight, it is about the replacement of the probe made in Bali the day before the accident.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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PW100
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:52 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
Antarius wrote:
1 crash with a proven cause = yes grounding.


The MAX had a lone crash with a known contributing cause. No grounding.


So you think it is acceptable that a single sensor failure, either by poor maintenance (if true) or bird hit leads to a crash? ? ?

Think again. Still very good reason for grounding.
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Checklist787
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:56 pm

PW100 wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
Antarius wrote:
1 crash with a proven cause = yes grounding.


The MAX had a lone crash with a known contributing cause. No grounding.


So you think it is acceptable that a single sensor failure, either by poor maintenance (if true) or bird hit leads to a crash? ? ?

Think again. Still very good reason for grounding.


Fixing you

Find yourself normal that an airline like SouthWest had 31 737Max's in service (the most 737MAX aircraft).

Air Canada and American Airlines have both 24 Max's in service (they are the second largest number of Max's delivered after SouthWest!)

Lion Air operated only 14 and Ethiopian only 5!
There is not something that challenges you??
Do you believe in chance?

No, I think Lion Air is a bunch of incompetent people who are hiding behind the second crash.

That's what I think.
A strip of null :banghead:

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Checklist787
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:09 pm

Error.
Sorry
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Antarius
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:14 pm

Checklist787 wrote:
No, I think Lion Air is a bunch of incompetent people who are hiding behind the second crash.


It isn't so black and white. The above can be true AND Boeing can have built a faulty aircraft. Perfect storm for a catastrophe.
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MSPNWA
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Re: Pictures Raise Specter of Fake Evidence in 737 Max Crash Probe

Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:21 pm

PW100 wrote:
So you think it is acceptable that a single sensor failure, either by poor maintenance (if true) or bird hit leads to a crash? ? ?

Think again. Still very good reason for grounding.


Why do I need to think again when the world's regulators believed so? Maybe you need to think again.

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