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Oykie
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Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:24 am

From the Norwegian media site they announce interline agreement and possibility to buy tickets on each other’s web sites.

From the press release it says from Google translate:

Norwegian and US airline JetBlue enter into a cooperation agreement. The cooperation will enable both low-cost carriers' customers to easily book flights in one transaction.

JetBlue has a significant route network in the US, the Caribbean and Latin America, while Norwegian can offer a variety of transatlantic routes and has a large route network in Europe. The cooperation will enable customers to book round-trip flights in a single transaction across both companies' route networks.

- This collaboration will give travelers even more choice. JetBlue is the largest airline on several of our largest US bases, such as New York and Fort Lauderdale, which will give our and JetBlue's customers access to a large network on both sides of the Atlantic. JetBlue is an ideal partner for us as the company has a significant presence in the US, the Caribbean and Latin America, says Geir Karlsen, Chief Executive Officer and Chief Financial Officer of Norwegian.

At the three hubs of New York JFK, Boston and Fort Lauderdale, Norwegian travelers can access 60 routes domestically in the United States, as well as 40 routes to the Caribbean and Latin America. JetBlue's customers can fly with Norwegian on more than 20 routes to Europe.

https://media.no.norwegian.com/pressrel ... id-2933031
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:29 am

Oykie wrote:
From the Norwegian media site they announce inter line agreement and possibility to buy tickets on each other’s web sites.

https://media.no.norwegian.com/pressrel ... id-2933031


B6 = "let me give you a little massage before I kill you"
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
tphuang
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:40 am

I always found it surprising it's taken this long for this arrangement to have happened. But unless this gets more serious, I still see B6 killing off DY once it starts TATL service.
 
lhrsfosyd91
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:44 am

It could be a joint business once B6 starts TATL and it pretty much confirms LGW as a gateway.
 
a350lover
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:05 am

Finally Norwegian behaves as an airline and makes moves to be a player which follows the market rules. Very well done!
 
BNAMealer
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:12 am

adamh8297 wrote:
Oykie wrote:
From the Norwegian media site they announce inter line agreement and possibility to buy tickets on each other’s web sites.

https://media.no.norwegian.com/pressrel ... id-2933031


B6 = "let me give you a little massage before I kill you"


Why? This could be beneficial for both sides if DY gets their house in order. Think of this has the response to the BA/AA and DL/AF/KL/VS jv’s.
 
Gulfstream500
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:16 am

Since B6 has made zero indication of TATL flights from FLL and MCO, I think that there is a good niche with this interline agreement, with it being Europe to Caribbean flights. The interline flights out of BOS and JFK will certainly last, but B6 will have an odd relationship with Norwegian at these hubs if the B6 London flight happens.
So... when will the Northwest DC-9s be retired?
 
AerostarUK
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:16 am

Its a letter of intent......therefore meaningless..........and given DY haven't the cash to get through the winter ( they lost $400M last year same period) why would Jetblue want the aggravation one wonders.......
 
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BA744PHX
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:19 am

a350lover wrote:
Finally Norwegian behaves as an airline and makes moves to be a player which follows the market rules. Very well done!

What does this say about B6, who gets in bed with everyone?
 
AndrewJM70
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:22 am

DY will almost certainly be gone by Easter so it is meaningless.
 
AerostarUK
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:07 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
Oykie wrote:
From the Norwegian media site they announce inter line agreement and possibility to buy tickets on each other’s web sites.

https://media.no.norwegian.com/pressrel ... id-2933031


B6 = "let me give you a little massage before I kill you"


Why? This could be beneficial for both sides if DY gets their house in order. Think of this has the response to the BA/AA and DL/AF/KL/VS jv’s.



Interlining is inherently expensive which is why LCC generally don't do it. Any increase in DY yield would be more than offset by increased costs. in my view
 
airbazar
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:59 pm

lhrsfosyd91 wrote:
It could be a joint business once B6 starts TATL and it pretty much confirms LGW as a gateway.

IMO it pretty much confirms LHR.
Why would B6 operate the same route as DY when the combined partnership could be serving both LHR and LGW? You don't see VS and DL operating the same route out of LGW do you?
B6's planes will be premium heavy thus more suited for LHR.
 
Someone83
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:54 pm

The biggest issue here is that manyof Norwegian's arrival into JetBlue's hubs are rather late. To connections into the US is a little limited
 
Blueknows
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:54 pm

It will be interesting to see DY moves to T5 in JFK. Same goes for BOS. I see B6 investing money into DY. They dropped all flights from DUB/ORK. Wonder if B6 had some pull on this. Perhaps DY leasing slots to B6? Also possibly DY will move it’s planes inter Europe. This would be better for DY and win for B6
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:08 pm

Now maybe JetBlue will get going on expanding in middle America like MEM. This could help bolster load factors to make these much more feasible especially with the A223s
 
Someone83
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:32 pm

Blueknows wrote:
It will be interesting to see DY moves to T5 in JFK. Same goes for BOS. I see B6 investing money into DY. They dropped all flights from DUB/ORK. Wonder if B6 had some pull on this. Perhaps DY leasing slots to B6? Also possibly DY will move it’s planes inter Europe. This would be better for DY and win for B6


I somehow doubt it. We're after all only taking about an interline agreement here
 
AerostarUK
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:01 pm

Someone83 wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
It will be interesting to see DY moves to T5 in JFK. Same goes for BOS. I see B6 investing money into DY. They dropped all flights from DUB/ORK. Wonder if B6 had some pull on this. Perhaps DY leasing slots to B6? Also possibly DY will move it’s planes inter Europe. This would be better for DY and win for B6


I somehow doubt it. We're after all only taking about an interline agreement here


and it's an 'intent' to enter into an interline agreement..........DY has to get through the winter first.........which in my view it can't without a rights issue.....
 
jumbojet
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:06 pm

JFK is going to be the biggest airport for these connections and transferring between T1 and T5 will be a nightmare. Plus, most people still don't know how to use the Airtrain. Folks will wind up at Lefferts BLVD before they realize they got on the wrong train.

DY on time record is doesnt leave much to be desired. Than again, neither does B6's. Don't believe me, just look at the DOT stats for B6. This will definitely be a logistical challenge.

running a less then desirable operation combined with having to transfer terminals is a recipe for a huge mess.

Developing a partnership with DY while their on the brink of collapse is risky at best and it does not guarantee B6 their coveted Gatwick slots.

I guess when there aren't a lot of partners left to dance with, you get a desperate move like this. It will be fun to sit back and watch how all this unfolds.
 
Bluewho
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:22 pm

jumbojet wrote:
JFK is going to be the biggest airport for these connections and transferring between T1 and T5 will be a nightmare. Plus, most people still don't know how to use the Airtrain. Folks will wind up at Lefferts BLVD before they realize they got on the wrong train.

DY on time record is doesnt leave much to be desired. Than again, neither does B6's. Don't believe me, just look at the DOT stats for B6. This will definitely be a logistical challenge.

running a less then desirable operation combined with having to transfer terminals is a recipe for a huge mess.

Developing a partnership with DY while their on the brink of collapse is risky at best and it does not guarantee B6 their coveted Gatwick slots.

I guess when there aren't a lot of partners left to dance with, you get a desperate move like this. It will be fun to sit back and watch how all this unfolds.



Rough translation anything B6 does will be bad.

RH just gave a speech about Europe. The transcript is public here is the part that talks about “dance partners” and other things.


In fact, since the last time I had the opportunity to speak to this club in 2015, the industry continues to change and be as lively as ever. One of the biggest distractions of the last few years was the Gulf carrier debate. This seems to have more or less faded into the background for now with the U.S., U.A.E., and Qatar siding with the consumer and choosing to preserve the integrity of America’s Open Skies agreements.

But we still see too many worrying signs of protectionism that serve no good public policy purpose and distract us from the real issues facing our industry.

One of these distractions, of course, is the made-up controversy around Air Italy. As my friend Henrik Hololei said when he was here in July from the European Commission, it’s an EU carrier whose rights will be defended if protectionist actions are taken against them. s

And of course there is the never-ending fight against Norwegian, and efforts to prevent another carrier like them, in the form of so-called flag of convenience legislation proposed in Congress.

Having to spend so much time beating back the hypocrisy of the legacy carriers’ campaigns gets tedious, but it’s a fight that we have to continue.

Most U.S. airlines are experiencing record profitability and record employment, so you have to roll your eyes when you hear things like those made-up numbers about U.S. job losses caused by certain foreign airlines operating in this country – it’s the kind of rhetoric that is pure propaganda.

On the point of job losses, I was surprised as most of you back in August – well, maybe not all of you –to see Delta’s pilots come out swinging against the carrier’s request to expand their transatlantic joint venture, claiming that these JVs have actually caused job losses and flying to shift to foreign partners in Europe, Asia, and Mexico. It’s something we’ve been observing for years.

So much for that dubious claim that the Gulf carriers are the ones killing off U.S. jobs.

Despite these challenges which keep our industry exciting, we at JetBlue are very excited about our own growth plans. Today we serve more than 100 cities and our model has been a proven recipe for success. We’re looking to build on that momentum as we get ready for transatlantic service in 2021, initially from Boston and New York to London but also many other markets after that.

We’ve ordered 26 longer-range A321 aircraft capable of transatlantic operations, and we look forward to the opportunity to cross the pond and replicate our success in a number of promising markets that are hungry for a better experience from an airline like JetBlue.

When you look at the premium end of the transatlantic, consumers are being gouged by the dominant legacy carriers and JetBlue is the only U.S. airline currently with the capabilities along and interest and proven track record to do this.

And as I always do when I talk about this topic, I go on the web sites and look at what it’s going to cost me to fly from here to London. So if you wanted to depart today and return on Friday, if you want to go from Dulles you’re going to pay from eight-and-half to twelve-and-a-half thousand dollars, if you want to go from Boston to Heathrow, it’s going to cost you between $9,300 and $14,000 and if you want to go from JFK to Heathrow tonight and back Friday it’s going to cost you up to $12,000. These fares are obscene – they are obscene – and they should not be permitted to exist. But competition is the way to fix it.

You have to look at the U.S. transcon market if you want clear proof of the JetBlue effect. We started flying between New York and L.A. in 2014. We did so because we saw business class fares in the market at obscene levels. Fares between New York and L.A. have been cut in half since we rolled out our Mint product – premium fares have been halved – since we rolled out our Mint product in 2014 with lie-flat seats. And we now have over 80 flights a day between the west and coasts with the Mint experience for our customers. For the past several years Mint has been named the Best Business Class by TripAdvisor and The Points Guy, proving you can offer a great experience and a low fare at the same time – people don’t have to choose. Most importantly for travelers, Mint’s runaway success has forced the legacy airlines to up their game and drop their prices and I’m happy about that because that’s great for all consumers!

Looking at London, as I said earlier, there’s no reason a walk-up fare in business class from the Northeast should set anyone back $10,000– or more – roundtrip when a roundtrip to California is actually not that much shorter can be had for five times less.

I can tell you that our newly imagined Mint experience is inevitably going to drive down the high fares charged by the alliances and JVs that dominate 80-90 percent of transatlantic traffic so it’s no wonder we’ve already seen a competitive reaction from them.

In fact, Delta and Virgin announced new service to Gatwick from Boston and New York a week before we even announced European service. More recently, American announced a return to Boston/Heathrow. Fortunately, we at JetBlue has plenty of experience with these tactics and head-on competition and they are just a fact of life.

While we have indeed announced service to London, we are still in discussions with the different airports, and we see an opportunity to actually operate from more than one of them, just as we do very successfully in metro areas around this country including New York, L.A., and South Florida.

The reality of the London market is that the most in-demand airport, Heathrow, is effectively closed to competition. Immunized JVs account for virtually all the flights between the U.S. and Heathrow and they control 75% of Heathrow slots. The concentration of power in the hands of a few giants is stifling to competition.

However, there may be signs of hope for Heathrow. The third runway is a much-needed development, and even if it’s built, it’s not expected to open until 2026. An early growth proposal could add 25,000 new movements per year before the runway opens and would be a very important development for new entrants like JetBlue eager to bring competition and lower fares to Heathrow.

I want to applaud the Trump administration and the DOT for their support of Heathrow’s early growth plans and their urging the U.K. to allocate 50 percent of new capacity to new entrants in line with IATA’s Worldwide Slot Guidelines.

Actions like this are much-needed in a landscape where giants dominate the industry through their alliances and their government-sanctioned immunity from anti-trust laws, leaving small carriers having to fight for the scraps – if there are any to fight for. My prediction is that JVs will continue to try and convince governments that they need to keep growing for the consumer’s own good, with arguments like, “My competition is getting bigger so I need to get bigger, too.” That logic is a bit perverse when it comes to immunity from laws designed to protect competition.

Most recently, when an expanded JV between Delta, Virgin Atlantic and Air France-KLM was tentatively approved, our government had a tremendous opportunity to inject competition into some of Europe’s largest fortress hubs in London, Paris and Amsterdam.

We’re working hard here in Washington as well as in the U.K. and Europe to urge lawmakers and regulators to consider the harm caused by increased market concentration in the hands of a few immunized JVs. This system has now become self-perpetuating to the point that it’s broken and harmful to consumers.

Competition in our view is not merely two or three immunized joint ventures charging identical high fares – which is exactly in many cases what the definition of competition has become – and maintaining how competitive things are. Competition, which regulators are charged with protecting, means NOT excluding different and new business models from the marketplace.

The American Antitrust Institute, an independent, bi-partisan organization, recently examined the consumer harm of ATI and urged DOT to reform its policies. Another recent study by a University of California economist found that if anti-trust immunity were removed, travelers in gateway-to-gateway markets – in other words, the trunks routes that represent some of the largest traffic volumes across the Atlantic – would be more likely to enjoy lower fares.

Unfortunately, transatlantic competition is indeed on the wane. In the last few years, and even just in the last few weeks, we’ve witnessed a number of independent carriers exit the transatlantic market: Air Berlin, WOW, Primera, Thomas Cook, XL Airways, just to name a few. To our north, Air Canada, part of the Star JV, is purchasing Air Transat and eliminating another transatlantic competitor while at the same time Delta is forming a joint venture with WestJet. The net result of all of these developments is that transatlantic JVs are stronger than ever, while at the same time applying to regulators everywhere to grow even larger, and with immunity from antitrust laws.

Alfred Kahn, once chairman of the Civil Aeronautics Board, some of us remember, and widely viewed as the father of airline deregulation, said in the 1990s, and I quote, “The Government could actively attempt to make markets more competitive by assuming responsibilities that it has neglected. It could vigorously enforce the antitrust laws. It could also remove barriers to competition,” end quote.

I can only imagine what he would say today.

Perhaps it’s time for a new set of eyes to join with DOT in taking a look at joint ventures from a competitive perspective. Perhaps DOT needs to more closely partner with other experts like those at the Antitrust Division of DOJ or perhaps Congress needs to change the anti-trust immunity laws so vibrant competition with different types of business models is ensured – not just legacy carriers that lead joint ventures.

What else can be done? Well, DOT currently has a record number of ATI cases pending before it, including a request for the dominant JV at Heathrow, the oneworld JV, to grow larger by incorporating Aer Lingus. Since regulators approved this joint venture in 2010 contingent on a four-slot-pair remedy, BA and its parent company IAG have increased their share of Heathrow slots from around 45 percent to nearly 60 percent.

And unlike U.S.-imposed slot remedies which are typically permanent, the four-slot pair remedy from 2010 actually expires next year and those slots will revert back to the oneworld JV carriers, thus letting them grow even larger.

If regulators imposed a remedy in 2010 when BA controlled 45 percent of the slots and dominated certain markets, then surely there are valid public policy arguments for a remedy to be re-imposed in 2019 when BA and IAG now control close to 60 percent of the slots.

By the way, a few years ago, when American and US Airways merged and the combined carrier approached 60% at DCA, our DOJ forced a significant divestiture of slots to remedy the competitive harm and we were the beneficiary of those, and brought more low fares to DC. The same should be done at Heathrow now. In fact, we believe the four-slot-pair remedy should be greatly enhanced to account for the anti-competitive changes in the landscape over the last decade.

But it’s not just IAG. It is egregious that at Heathrow right now, Delta, one of the largest airlines on earth, which only gained access to the airport a decade ago but now owns 49 percent of Virgin Atlantic, which the second-largest slot holder, is still operating so-called “remedy slots” it acquired a decade ago as a new entrant – slots that were intended to inject competition into the airport. These include even more remedy slots operated by Flybe, which was just yesterday rebranded as “Virgin Connect.”

It’s hard to fathom that a mega JV that has just tentatively been given the green light to get even larger remains deserving of any remedy slots, especially when Virgin themselves have Heathrow slots they’re leasing out to others. We have filed formal complaints with the competition authorities in Washington, London and Brussels regarding Delta’s misuse of remedy slots and we will always continue to fight for access and freedom to compete.

We are encouraged, though, by some recent DOT actions that seem to demonstrate that they will probe JV agreements more forcefully and take action, when necessary, to preserve and enhance competition. We are also hopeful that in a post-Brexit U.K., these agreements will also get fresh scrutiny as the Competition and Markets Authority begins to assume transatlantic aviation anti-trust functions. No market and no airport is more deserving of intense competitive scrutiny than London Heathrow.

While JetBlue supports free markets, there is a role governments have to play. JetBlue has never sought a handout or even a hand up – just the right to compete and fight for our customers. It’s what we’ve been doing since David Neeleman, by the way who’s 60 today, raised that red flag two decades ago on the Hill and warned us of the harms of unbridled consolidation.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:58 pm

airbazar wrote:
IMO it pretty much confirms LHR.
Why would B6 operate the same route as DY when the combined partnership could be serving both LHR and LGW?


Because from Gatwick Norwegian can provide feed further into Europe. At Heathrow they can't, it would be a dead end.

It's not unusual for codeshare partners to share a route, Air France-KLM and Delta share a good number of TATL routes for example. Why can't Norwegian and JetBlue do the same?

By the way, what nobody mentioned so far is that a while ago Norwegian has moved it's route Gatwick - Fort Lauderdale to Miami. Now that they found a codeshare partner with a strong base at Fort Lauderdale, will they move that route back from Miami to Fort Lauderdale?
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:18 pm

Well Norwegian holds some prime lucrative London slots. They have been trying really hard to get a US codeshare. B6 will definitely be acquiring some slots from Norwegian out of this deal.
Good for both companies going forward.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
Blueknows
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:33 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
Now maybe JetBlue will get going on expanding in middle America like MEM. This could help bolster load factors to make these much more feasible especially with the A223s


They checked out MEM. They didn’t give B6 enough incentive to make it work. So MEM got G4 to come instead.
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:58 pm

Blueknows wrote:
WaywardMemphian wrote:
Now maybe JetBlue will get going on expanding in middle America like MEM. This could help bolster load factors to make these much more feasible especially with the A223s


They checked out MEM. They didn’t give B6 enough incentive to make it work. So MEM got G4 to come instead.


You talking service to FLL?
 
AWACSooner
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:58 pm

"B6 has an extensive route network across the US"

ACROSS being the key word...as extensive doesn't apply to those of us in the central part of the country.
 
nine4nine
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:26 pm

AWACSooner wrote:
"B6 has an extensive route network across the US"

ACROSS being the key word...as extensive doesn't apply to those of us in the central part of the country.



I think “the other guys” have your neck of the woods pretty much covered.
717, 727-100, 727-200, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 742, 748, 752, 753, 762, 763, 772, 77W, 787-10, DC9, MD80/88/90, DC10, 319, 220-300, 320, 321, 321n, 332, 333, CS100, CRJ200, Q400, E175, E190, ERJ145, EMB120
 
Oykie
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:50 pm

There is an article out on Flightglobal:

Norwegian says the pact would provide greater flexibility and choice for customers of both operators.

It says its passengers will be able to access some 60 US routes as well as 40 connections to the Caribbean and Latin America, via JetBlue's hubs at New York JFK, Boston and Fort Lauderdale.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ue-461558/
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
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klm617
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:58 pm

Oykie wrote:
There is an article out on Flightglobal:

Norwegian says the pact would provide greater flexibility and choice for customers of both operators.

It says its passengers will be able to access some 60 US routes as well as 40 connections to the Caribbean and Latin America, via JetBlue's hubs at New York JFK, Boston and Fort Lauderdale.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ue-461558/


Yes but it's pointless as those people in other cities are not going to get those cheap fares that people in Boston and New York enjoy due to over saturation. DY should be moving into new markets on their own when they can have pricing power.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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klm617
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:03 pm

jumbojet wrote:
JFK is going to be the biggest airport for these connections and transferring between T1 and T5 will be a nightmare. Plus, most people still don't know how to use the Airtrain. Folks will wind up at Lefferts BLVD before they realize they got on the wrong train.

DY on time record is doesnt leave much to be desired. Than again, neither does B6's. Don't believe me, just look at the DOT stats for B6. This will definitely be a logistical challenge.

running a less then desirable operation combined with having to transfer terminals is a recipe for a huge mess.

Developing a partnership with DY while their on the brink of collapse is risky at best and it does not guarantee B6 their coveted Gatwick slots.

I guess when there aren't a lot of partners left to dance with, you get a desperate move like this. It will be fun to sit back and watch how all this unfolds.


No one is going to bite at this to save a couple hundred dollars when you can fly the US3 worry free that your ticket is going to be good tomorrow. DY needs to open up more markets when they can have pricing power to cover the cost of their operation. The problem with all these carriers is their ego they need to all be in the largest market even if they have to give seats away to gain market share.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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klm617
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:05 pm

AWACSooner wrote:
"B6 has an extensive route network across the US"

ACROSS being the key word...as extensive doesn't apply to those of us in the central part of the country.



Exactly outside of Chicago options are pretty limited for the rest of us.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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LuxuryTravelled
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:10 pm

It is worth remembering that Norwegian is the biggest international airline flying into JFK, which makes them a perfect choice as a JetBlue partner.
 
dtremit
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:15 pm

jumbojet wrote:
JFK is going to be the biggest airport for these connections and transferring between T1 and T5 will be a nightmare. Plus, most people still don't know how to use the Airtrain. Folks will wind up at Lefferts BLVD before they realize they got on the wrong train.


Construction on the new T1 will be underway before this starts -- isn't there a good chance that DY would have to move at JFK anyway?

Blueknows wrote:
It will be interesting to see DY moves to T5 in JFK. Same goes for BOS.


No need for DY to move anywhere in BOS; terminals C and E are already connected post-security.
 
drdisque
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:16 pm

LuxuryTravelled wrote:
It is worth remembering that Norwegian is the biggest international airline flying into JFK, which makes them a perfect choice as a JetBlue partner.


Bingo, opportunities for B6 to sell onward flights to BCN, FCO, CDG, MAD, and AMS that they don't have today are huge. Especially for B6 markets that don't have year-round nonstops to these European markets, it basically puts B6/DY on nearly equal footing with the US majors in terms of connectivity across the Atlantic (at least from US points B6 serves).
 
BNAMealer
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:34 pm

klm617 wrote:
Oykie wrote:
There is an article out on Flightglobal:

Norwegian says the pact would provide greater flexibility and choice for customers of both operators.

It says its passengers will be able to access some 60 US routes as well as 40 connections to the Caribbean and Latin America, via JetBlue's hubs at New York JFK, Boston and Fort Lauderdale.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ue-461558/


Yes but it's pointless as those people in other cities are not going to get those cheap fares that people in Boston and New York enjoy due to over saturation. DY should be moving into new markets on their own when they can have pricing power.


Where in the US would they have pricing power?
 
tphuang
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:47 pm

It's so funny that JetBlue still hasn't announced this yet. Maybe they will announce this at earnings call. I wonder if there is anything else they are getting out of this. Given DY's desperate situation, I would think they need B6 here a lot more than the other way around.

Now, RH has even come out to support DY on the protectionism stuff. That's pretty classical JetBlue when it comes to its oversea partners.
 
lhrsfosyd91
Posts: 135
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:24 pm

airbazar wrote:
lhrsfosyd91 wrote:
It could be a joint business once B6 starts TATL and it pretty much confirms LGW as a gateway.

IMO it pretty much confirms LHR.
Why would B6 operate the same route as DY when the combined partnership could be serving both LHR and LGW? You don't see VS and DL operating the same route out of LGW do you?
B6's planes will be premium heavy thus more suited for LHR.


With what slots sorry?
 
StinkyPinky
Posts: 61
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:42 pm

This is probably an easy and quick way to get some brand recognition in Europe in the near term, leading up to their own flights across the Atlantic. I'm just concerned that DY wont be around and this will backfire, stranding B6 customers if they collapse. Also, it seems odd to partner with another LCC when you're planning on launching your own service. I wonder if there is something more in depth in the works, like taking over aircraft and routes in the future. I wouldn't be surprised if B6 later says they'll let DY do Europe and instead focus on South America against the new Delta Latam. I feel like this is typical B6, outsourcing routes to other airlines rather than "growing organically."
 
tphuang
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:53 pm

StinkyPinky wrote:
This is probably an easy and quick way to get some brand recognition in Europe in the near term, leading up to their own flights across the Atlantic. I'm just concerned that DY wont be around and this will backfire, stranding B6 customers if they collapse. Also, it seems odd to partner with another LCC when you're planning on launching your own service. I wonder if there is something more in depth in the works, like taking over aircraft and routes in the future. I wouldn't be surprised if B6 later says they'll let DY do Europe and instead focus on South America against the new Delta Latam. I feel like this is typical B6, outsourcing routes to other airlines rather than "growing organically."


that last part does not make sense at all. They just got 26 LR/XLR and have told the entire world those are for BOS/JFK. And just because they got the weakest partnership in interlining with an airline that might not be around in 2 years, they are going to give that up? That would be beyond stupid. I do wonder if this involves DY moving to T5/6 or some kind of slot exchange at JFK/LGW or taking the lease on some of those DY A321s.

Where else have they really outsourced? The only codeshares they have are to places they have no intention flying in the near term.
 
santi319
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:55 pm

Plot twist: this is what they meant by LON service lol.
 
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klm617
Posts: 5092
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:01 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Oykie wrote:
There is an article out on Flightglobal:

Norwegian says the pact would provide greater flexibility and choice for customers of both operators.

It says its passengers will be able to access some 60 US routes as well as 40 connections to the Caribbean and Latin America, via JetBlue's hubs at New York JFK, Boston and Fort Lauderdale.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ue-461558/


Yes but it's pointless as those people in other cities are not going to get those cheap fares that people in Boston and New York enjoy due to over saturation. DY should be moving into new markets on their own when they can have pricing power.


Where in the US would they have pricing power?



Places like BNA, STL and CLE. These cities have non stops to London or just on high end pricing option.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Ishrion
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Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:22 pm

santi319 wrote:
Plot twist: this is what they meant by LON service lol.


Norwegian and JetBlue jOiNt vEntUrE cOnFiRmEd?
 
Blueknows
Posts: 414
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:31 am

Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:53 pm

So I think we all see what’s going on here. We know DY is not doing well financially. So see Norwegian start to eventually pull out of bos/jfk/fll and JetBlue take those slots
 
BNAMealer
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:55 am

klm617 wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
klm617 wrote:

Yes but it's pointless as those people in other cities are not going to get those cheap fares that people in Boston and New York enjoy due to over saturation. DY should be moving into new markets on their own when they can have pricing power.


Where in the US would they have pricing power?



Places like BNA, STL and CLE. These cities have non stops to London or just on high end pricing option.


I don’t think an airline with a shaky financial ground and low frequency with not a lot of onward connections would have a lot of pricing power in those markets. And speaking as someone who lives in Nashville, BNA isn’t quite ready for a second LON flight yet.
 
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chepos
Posts: 7273
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:44 am

Blueknows wrote:
So I think we all see what’s going on here. We know DY is not doing well financially. So see Norwegian start to eventually pull out of bos/jfk/fll and JetBlue take those slots


BOS and FLL are not slot controlled. Or do you mean you envision B6 taking DY LGW TA ops (US east coast)?


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Varsity1
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Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:50 am

It's going to take a major retiming of Norwegians flights to be useful. Norwegian and JB need to restructure their continental networks for feed to make this work.

It can work, but it won't be overnight..
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
Blueknows
Posts: 414
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:31 am

Re: Norwegian and JetBlue announces cooperation

Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:31 am

I see B6 taking DY EAST COAST operation and getting LGW/ORY/ATH/MAD/BCN/AMS/DUB. Then you will see DY start to add frequency in Latin America/Europe. We have already seen this happen before.
https://thepointsguy.com/news/guadeloup ... stination/
Perfect example. DY gets a partner and B6 has someone to lease slots from. DY can make good money leasing slots to B6. In turn B6 get a place holder for europe cities slots. It’s actually quiet genius

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