TC957
Topic Author
Posts: 3531
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

LH dropping JED

Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:51 am

Seems like LH are withdrawing their FRA - JED service after 12 Jan. Odd that if the A333 is too much plane for that route, their new A321NEO's couldn't be used instead.
Last edited by SQ22 on Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
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Pellegrine
Posts: 2312
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:19 am

Re: LH dropping JED

Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:29 pm

I'm betting it was an A333 with F. Ain't no A321neo replacing that. Besides, there are other concerns that pop up besides aircraft type when serving Saudi.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
LH779
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Re: LH dropping JED

Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:47 pm

Pellegrine wrote:
I'm betting it was an A333 with F. Ain't no A321neo replacing that. Besides, there are other concerns that pop up besides aircraft type when serving Saudi.


F was removed from all A333s, A343s and 744s. The only planes that still have a first class cabin at LH are A346, 748 and A388.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: LH dropping JED

Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:50 pm

LH779 wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
I'm betting it was an A333 with F. Ain't no A321neo replacing that. Besides, there are other concerns that pop up besides aircraft type when serving Saudi.


F was removed from all A333s, A343s and 744s. The only planes that still have a first class cabin at LH are A346, 748 and A388.


Ok. Wasn't sure or not.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
Blerg
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Re: LH dropping JED

Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:52 pm

Saudia flies to Frankfurt, do the two airlines code-share? I guess LH can shuttle passengers via Athens on Aegean which seems to do well on the route (since it's still operational after a few years).
 
klwright69
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Re: LH dropping JED

Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:21 pm

Several years ago I was at FRA and saw the LH flight to JED. I noticed there was a tag to Asmara, Eritrea, from JED. It stuck me as odd. Will Asmara still be served or was that tag dropped previously?
 
TC957
Topic Author
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Re: LH dropping JED

Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:25 pm

There's no FRA - ASM service via JED or anywhere else. Think that was a short-lived flight.
 
vinniewinnie
Posts: 719
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Re: LH dropping JED

Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:49 pm

I flew LH FRA-JED-ADD with LH about 2 years ago. What has/will happen to LH ADD flights?
 
330lover
Posts: 612
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Re: LH dropping JED

Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:03 pm

vinniewinnie wrote:
I flew LH FRA-JED-ADD with LH about 2 years ago. What has/will happen to LH ADD flights?


They fly it still, dedicated flight FRA-ADD-FRA on A343, flight LH598/599, 5 x weekly
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fraT
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Re: LH dropping JED

Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:06 pm

The FRA-ADD flight is standalone for some time now so the cancellation of the JED flight has no implications.
 
upperdeckfan
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Re: LH dropping JED

Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:37 pm

TC957 wrote:
Seems like LH are withdrawing their FRA - JED service after 12 Jan. Odd that if the A333 is too much plane for that route, their new A321NEO's couldn't be used instead.


Would be good if you share a source or update the title mentioning it's unconfirmed.
748,744,742,741,772,773,762,763,
764, 789, 732,733,735,737,738,739,
752, 722, 717,74M,DC10,DC9,M82,
M83, M87, M88,310,319,320,321,332,
333, 343, 346,359,388,L1011,CR2,
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DSH8, CS1,CS3
 
KingB123
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Re: LH dropping JED

Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:54 pm

Surprised they are cancelling Jeddah as I thought they would've made money with all the religious,O/D, Business links, and also now that Saudi has opened up its borders for tourism too.
King B
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: LH dropping JED

Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:13 pm

Let me guess. JED is a low-yield destination, not much premium traffic, and customers are price sensitive.
 
xwb777
Posts: 507
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Re: Rumour: LH dropping JED

Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:26 pm

It is confirmed by airlineroute: http://ow.ly/vzNJ30pJmlH
 
MIflyer12
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Re: LH dropping JED

Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:34 pm

upperdeckfan wrote:
TC957 wrote:
Seems like LH are withdrawing their FRA - JED service after 12 Jan. Odd that if the A333 is too much plane for that route, their new A321NEO's couldn't be used instead.


Would be good if you share a source or update the title mentioning it's unconfirmed.


You can confirm the absence in the schedule if you've don't want to believe the OP.
 
B777LRF
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Re: LH dropping JED

Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:43 pm

Jeddah is the second city in KSA, but to a large extent also the home of business and historically the host to a large number of expats. With the growing Saudisation, more and more jobs are being taken over by KSA nationals by law, simultaneously reducing the number of expats. This effectively reduces the market, and LH probably found they could make more money deploying the aircraft elsewhere.

As for using A321 on the service, yes, it's technically doable. But the clientele for the seats in the front of the bus expect lie-flats, 3-course servings and everything else that goes with it.
Signature. You just read one.
 
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IrishAyes
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Re: LH dropping JED

Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:31 pm

wowowowo.

I have a good friend here in Chicago, who was raised in Jeddah since her Dad (Pakistani) was a Lufthansa sales agent-based at KAIA.

This is a pretty core route, but indeed my guess is that it is a casualty of MBS labor system overhauls. That said, Saudia also has a pretty robust international network out of JED to intercontinental markets.
 
luckyone
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Re: LH dropping JED

Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:37 pm

IrishAyes wrote:
wowowowo.

I have a good friend here in Chicago, who was raised in Jeddah since her Dad (Pakistani) was a Lufthansa sales agent-based at KAIA.

This is a pretty core route, but indeed my guess is that it is a casualty of MBS labor system overhauls. That said, Saudia also has a pretty robust international network out of JED to intercontinental markets.

Saudis can and do often also avail themselves of comprehensive connections available in Istanbul and Dubai.
 
787X30
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Re: LH dropping JED

Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:09 pm

IrishAyes wrote:
...

This is a pretty core route, but indeed my guess is that it is a casualty of MBS labor system overhauls. ...

Fifty years, well into the 51st. Served from May 7th, 69 as 2nd route to KSA, after Dhahran.
 
iadadd
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Re: LH dropping JED

Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:01 pm

When LH split the daily JED/ADD service last year, I thought it was because both were doing well enough that they could warrant their own standalone flight. ADD is 5x weekly and JED is 6x weekly, so if anything I assumed JED was doing great; quite an interesting cancellation
 
berari
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Re: LH dropping JED

Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:06 am

iadadd wrote:
When LH split the daily JED/ADD service last year, I thought it was because both were doing well enough that they could warrant their own standalone flight. ADD is 5x weekly and JED is 6x weekly, so if anything I assumed JED was doing great; quite an interesting cancellation


I always thought that ADD had to be supplemented by another city, with JED and KRT being those cities for LH for many years. So was CAI at some point. ADD nonstop has been a long time in the making for LH, having withdrawn mainline service in favour of one stop via JED the last time it had attempted. The current ADD nonstops are operated by Lufthansa Cityline which operates with lower cost than its parent LH, which appears to make a nonstop to ADD viable.
 
SCQ83
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Re: LH dropping JED

Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:30 pm

KingB123 wrote:
Surprised they are cancelling Jeddah as I thought they would've made money with all the religious,O/D, Business links, and also now that Saudi has opened up its borders for tourism too.


B777LRF wrote:
Jeddah is the second city in KSA, but to a large extent also the home of business and historically the host to a large number of expats. With the growing Saudisation, more and more jobs are being taken over by KSA nationals by law, simultaneously reducing the number of expats. This effectively reduces the market, and LH probably found they could make more money deploying the aircraft elsewhere.


IrishAyes wrote:
This is a pretty core route, but indeed my guess is that it is a casualty of MBS labor system overhauls. That said, Saudia also has a pretty robust international network out of JED to intercontinental markets.


Saudisation should have no impact for Lufthansa. Saudisation is primarily targeted at low-paying jobs performed by Indians, Pakistani, Filipinos and to middle-management made by those nationalities and Levant nationals (Lebanese, etc.). Maybe some overpaid Western expats have been kicked out, but with Vision 2030 there are plenty of companies and Western consultants moving or working in Saudi Arabia, and in a much more diverse set of jobs or people than only 10 years ago (e.g. finance, human resources, Western women, etc.). Quite a lot of Westerners are moving from the UAE (with the job market dead in Abu Dhabi/Dubai) to Saudi. It is KSA or going home.

Having flown that route (and FRA-RUH) a few times, IMO it is a mix of things:

- BA was absent of the market until a few years ago. Now BA is strong again, and Saudia codeshares with Air France which has also grown a lot. Lufthansa to FRA was mainly for connections to the US and Canada (and some European cities), and now CDG and LHR are much stronger hubs from JED. So FRA has to compete with LHR/CDG and obviously the local market to those cities is many times bigger.

- Saudia has "upped" the game in recent years. I recall flying MAD-FRA-JED because Saudia used to fly a 4-weekly A320 MAD-MXP-JED (such an annoying flight). Now it is a four weekly B777 MAD-JED.

- Vision 2030 is very Riyadh-centric. As mentioned above, JED used to be the commercial, more international-oriented city in Saudi Arabia (and Riyadh the more domestic, government oriented city). Now that is changing. Basically everything new is going on around Riyadh. Even the management for NEOM (the new city in the Red Sea) is based out of Riyadh. I see some similarities between Madrid and Barcelona :). So JED is becoming barely a "tourism destination" (Hajj/Umrah) and all business traffic is more and more focused on RUH (interestingly Lufthansa keeps FRA-RUH). I wouldn't be surprised in the future that more airlines drop JED (or "low cost" their offers) and focus more on RUH or serve their more premium product/carrier to the capital.
 
klwright69
Posts: 2692
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Re: LH dropping JED

Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:49 pm

I agree Saudization has nothing to do with LH dropping this flight. Saudization doesn't have a big impact on western workers. For example hotel desk clerks for the most part are Saudi now in the Kingdom. Westerners never did these jobs. The guy at the car rental agency that was an Indian before is now a Saudi, these are some examples. Airlines for the most part still have a robust presence in the Kingdom. Even BA has recently added DMM to the route network. There are still foreigners everywhere in the Kingdom. Saudi Arabia now allows tourism. In theory there should be more westerners in the Kingdom now. It struck me as odd that whatever reasons JED was combined with Asmara. For whatever reason LH was not successful in JED.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: LH dropping JED

Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:20 pm

What an Airline breaking up with an Airport says: It's not me, it's you.

Saudization(like Emiratization) only creates a parallel management structure, they cannot bring skills or technology, it has to come from the west. With the plans to open up their economy, allow tourism and plan to spend $Billions only creates more opportunities for the West.

Euro legacies are still struggling with cost structure issues, less fuel-efficient old planes, union issues, and hub issues making them less competitive.

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