Ishrion
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PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:49 am

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2019/10 ... a-airport/

A PenAir Saab 2000 that flew from Anchorage to Unalaska/Dutch Harbor (DUT) overran the runway by about 500 feet. The aircraft had 39 passengers on board (per Alaska) with a high school swim team.

The aircraft was N686PA operating AS3296.

Alaska acknowledged the incident a few hours after: https://blog.alaskaair.com/
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:17 am

At least 4 injuries, but injury is the worst word being used so far.

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2019/10/18/small-plane-crash-reported-at-unalaska-airport/
 
Max Q
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:07 am

I didn’t know there were any Saab 2000’s operating in the US at all


It’s a rare bird
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


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737MAX7
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:29 am

Heard early rumors it landed with a decent tailwind but can’t confirm.
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:58 pm

Ishrion wrote:
A PenAir Saab 2000 that flew from Anchorage to Unalaska/Dutch Harbor (DUT) overran the runway by about 500 feet. The aircraft had 39 passengers on board (per Alaska) with a high school swim team.


Looks like the swim team almost went swimming...... :worried:

Image
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EMBQA
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:05 pm

Max Q wrote:
I didn’t know there were any Saab 2000’s operating in the US at all


It’s a rare bird


PenAir flies the only Part 121.. There are a few others flying around. That's one of the former Joe Gibbs Racing aircraft
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
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Jamake1
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:45 pm

From Yahoo/GMA: More photos. Looks like one of the props sliced through the fuselage.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/high-school-s ... ories.html
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AirlineCritic
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:04 pm

Jamake1 wrote:
Looks like one of the props sliced through the fuselage.


Interesting and scary. Pieces of prop flying to the fuselage when the prop hit the rocks? I hope the injuries were not due to the prop piece, those things are horrible.
 
EMBQA
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:19 pm

I remember an incident a bunch of years ago when a Saab 340 up north hit a Snow Goose. The Goose went off the the Captains Windshield and that took out the Wiper Blade which was slung, with the goose body into the prop which shot the wiper blade like an arrow, and goose into the fuselage. The wiper blade went right through the fuselage and into the passenger leg sitting in Row 3A. There was a Doctor on board that was able to control the bleeding. I had the wonderful task of cleaning that up...
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
32andBelow
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:29 pm

https://www.ktuu.com/content/news/Plane ... 46322.html

1 reported dead. Only the second part 121 fatality since Colgan.
 
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Jamake1
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:29 pm

Local news is reporting that one passenger has died.

https://www.ktuu.com/content/news/Plane ... 46322.html
Come fly the sun.
 
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ODwyerPW
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:34 pm

Unfortunately, updated news is reporting one fatality. All appearances are is that it could have been worse, The plane is just barely hanging in there..

https://www.ktva.com/story/41199016/commercial-aircraft-off-the-runway-at-unalaska

Here is another photo taken of the front:

Image

I would imagine sticking a landing here is very challenging.

Image
learning never stops.
 
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OA940
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:52 pm

Prop through the fuselage is not a nice way to go.
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peterinlisbon
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:55 pm

It was lucky that "Stop" sign was there.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:09 pm

Very sad news. Hopefully the others who are injured have a successful and speedy recovery.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
drdisque
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:14 pm

Sad News.

Ravn is currently flying in a Dash 8 to re-establish operations with the Saab 2000 obviously out of service.
 
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LotsaRunway
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:32 pm

Once upon a time AS (maybe someone else) ran a 727-combi there. Hard to believe what that must have been like with that short runway, crosswinds and mountainous landscape.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:13 pm

Reeve Aleutian ran Electras there, it was used as an example of high reliability operations. Like a lot of places, DCA, ASE, SDU, you have to be on your A game and know when to go around.
 
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ClipperYankee
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:16 pm

LotsaRunway wrote:
Once upon a time AS (maybe someone else) ran a 727-combi there. Hard to believe what that must have been like with that short runway, crosswinds and mountainous landscape.


Might have been Reeve? Also, I think AS did have 737 service for a while and I believe I read it diverted often due to weather so they farmed out the flight to others.
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Chugach
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:17 pm

LotsaRunway wrote:
Once upon a time AS (maybe someone else) ran a 727-combi there. Hard to believe what that must have been like with that short runway, crosswinds and mountainous landscape.


AS ran the 732 out there for years, up until they retired the type. They’ve wetleased Penair on the route ever since they retired the 732.
 
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:18 pm

Here’s the weather around event time of 180200Z

PADU 180356Z VRB04KT 10SM BKN032 BKN042 07/01 A2953 RMK AO2 SLP003 T00670006
PADU 180256Z 25004KT 10SM BKN035 BKN044 BKN120 07/02 A2952 RMK AO2 RAE14 SLP002 ACSL NE P0002 60004 T00670017 53003
PADU 180156Z 30021G27KT 5SM -RA BKN039 06/02 A2953 RMK AO2 PK WND 30027/0154 RAB41 SLP004 P0002 T00560017
PADU 180056Z 31011KT 10SM FEW034 BKN047 BKN060 07/01 A2950 RMK AO2 SLP995 T00720011
PADU 172356Z 31006KT 10SM BKN036 BKN044 07/01 A2951 RMK AO2 RAB12E25 SLP999 P0000 60000 T00670011 10083 20056 53005
 
superbizzy73
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:49 pm

Just an observation (and I’m not trying to speculate anything), but shouldn’t the starboard propeller (the one that survived the rocks) be more flat-pitched if they were in beta? I’m no Saab 2000 expert by any means, but it seems to me like the angle of the propellers is just...wrong.
 
32andBelow
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:08 pm

drdisque wrote:
Sad News.

Ravn is currently flying in a Dash 8 to re-establish operations with the Saab 2000 obviously out of service.

That’s not an Alaska airlines flight. It’s a charter flight. The airport remains closed. The rest of the Saab fleet is flying today to other destinations.
 
STLflyer
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:42 pm

32andBelow wrote:
https://www.ktuu.com/content/news/Plane-off-runway-at-Unalaska-Airport-563346322.html

1 reported dead. Only the second part 121 fatality since Colgan.


What about SWA1380?

I'm also surprised to see someone died - the plane looks like it's basically in tact.
 
N353SK
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:45 pm

STLflyer wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
https://www.ktuu.com/content/news/Plane-off-runway-at-Unalaska-Airport-563346322.html

1 reported dead. Only the second part 121 fatality since Colgan.


What about SWA1380?


That was the first fatality since Colgan
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:57 pm

Heart felt thoughts to the family.

It is horrible this incident became a full fledged accident. What initially was a sigh of relief by what appeared to be a fuselage in tact on the starboard side soon gave way to realization shrapnel had penetrated the cabin, port.

Sadness for all involved. Saab’s have always been good planes.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
SoCalPilot
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:43 pm

superbizzy73 wrote:
Just an observation (and I’m not trying to speculate anything), but shouldn’t the starboard propeller (the one that survived the rocks) be more flat-pitched if they were in beta? I’m no Saab 2000 expert by any means, but it seems to me like the angle of the propellers is just...wrong.

They'll shut down in the feathered position, which they are in.
 
teachpdx
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:44 pm

STLflyer wrote:
I'm also surprised to see someone died - the plane looks like it's basically in tact.


The plane was not intact. One of the props sheared off and entered the cabin.
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dmg626
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:34 pm

32andBelow wrote:
https://www.ktuu.com/content/news/Plane-off-runway-at-Unalaska-Airport-563346322.html

1 reported dead. Only the second part 121 fatality since Colgan.


Disregard
 
superbizzy73
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:18 am

SoCalPilot wrote:
superbizzy73 wrote:
Just an observation (and I’m not trying to speculate anything), but shouldn’t the starboard propeller (the one that survived the rocks) be more flat-pitched if they were in beta? I’m no Saab 2000 expert by any means, but it seems to me like the angle of the propellers is just...wrong.

They'll shut down in the feathered position, which they are in.


Makes sense. Thank you for the information.
 
Max Q
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:45 am

LotsaRunway wrote:
Once upon a time AS (maybe someone else) ran a 727-combi there. Hard to believe what that must have been like with that short runway, crosswinds and mountainous landscape.



Probably a non event


The 727 handled turbulence better than any aircraft I’ve seen and it had exceptional short field performance with outstanding stability, a slow approach speed, and very powerful, spoilers, reverse and brakes


I’d rather be in a 727 than any other type landing on a short, unforgiving runway, it was simply a beast
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns are a malignant cancer that are destroying our society
 
KCaviator
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:50 am

32andBelow wrote:
https://www.ktuu.com/content/news/Plane-off-runway-at-Unalaska-Airport-563346322.html

1 reported dead. Only the second part 121 fatality since Colgan.


I think you’re confusing part 121 vs commercial. Cargo carriers can be and are part 121. So with that being said, your numbers are incorrect.

UPS 6: 2 fatalities (2010)
UPS 1354: 2 fatalities (2013)
Atlas 3591: 3 fatalities (2019)

These are just the ones that come to mind. There may be more.
 
KCaviator
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:50 am

32andBelow wrote:
https://www.ktuu.com/content/news/Plane-off-runway-at-Unalaska-Airport-563346322.html

1 reported dead. Only the second part 121 fatality since Colgan.


I think you’re confusing part 121 vs commercial. Cargo carriers can be and are part 121. So with that being said, your numbers are incorrect.

UPS 6: 2 fatalities (2010)
UPS 1354: 2 fatalities (2013)
Atlas 3591: 3 fatalities (2019)

These are just the ones that come to mind. There may be more.
 
32andBelow
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:53 am

KCaviator wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
https://www.ktuu.com/content/news/Plane-off-runway-at-Unalaska-Airport-563346322.html

1 reported dead. Only the second part 121 fatality since Colgan.


I think you’re confusing part 121 vs commercial. Cargo carriers can be and are part 121. So with that being said, your numbers are incorrect.

UPS 6: 2 fatalities (2010)
UPS 1354: 2 fatalities (2013)
Atlas 3591: 3 fatalities (2019)

These are just the ones that come to mind. There may be more.

Ok part 121 passenger flights. These are still commercial flights. I’m specifically excluding part 135 passenger because that has a different safety standard. Part 121 and part 135 cargo has a different safety standard as well.
 
sprxUSA
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:57 am

I know AS and MarkAir flew 73M into DUT, but not aware of 72M. Maybe Reeve did 727 service there.
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EA CO AS
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:31 am

drdisque wrote:
Sad News.

Ravn is currently flying in a Dash 8 to re-establish operations with the Saab 2000 obviously out of service.


That's the NTSB go team arriving at DUT.
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alaskan9974
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:53 am

It doesnt look bad from the outside but I would have hated to be inside the cabin when this happened.

Image
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:01 am

In the old days when propeller airliners were common, I seem to remember the designers would put baggage compartments, galleys, or toilets directly in line with the rotation plane of the propellers.

Why was this?
To reduce vibration?
Safety?
Did props fail more regularly in the past?
Could collapsing overrun concrete have helped slow the plane dome in this case?
So very sad.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
vfw614
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:31 pm

But is it known if the fatality resulted from the propeller entering the cabin? I have not seen information that - at this point - confirms what appears to generally assumed.
 
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FredrikHAD
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:58 pm

According to The Cordova Times: ”student Charlie Carroll, 16, had a piece of metal embedded in his left leg during the crash, said Charlie’s mother Lisa Carroll. Charlie Carroll also told his mother that the passenger sitting next to him had broken his leg, she said.”. It would appear to me that the student would know if another pax in the same row was killed by the prop, but you never know. People in general are not rational during traumatic events. I see that the forward doors were not used, probably due to the steep drop to the ground (good call). The rear right door is open though. It is possible that someone opened the aft door and stepped out in panic, only to fall to the ground. Evac injuries are very common.

If you need to evac, remember to look for running engines (props and jets), steep drops, smoke and fire before opening the door/window. Again, not everyone will behave in a rational manner so stepping out of a door with 3 meters to the ground could happen.

/Fredrik
 
HP69
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:23 pm

How many deaths?
 
Passedv1
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:05 am

He might not know because the passenger did not die on-scene.
 
32andBelow
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:38 am

HP69 wrote:
How many deaths?

1
 
prebennorholm
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:12 am

KlimaBXsst wrote:
In the old days when propeller airliners were common, I seem to remember the designers would put baggage compartments, galleys, or toilets directly in line with the rotation plane of the propellers.

Why was this?
….
Did props fail more regularly in the past?
….
So very sad.

In old days propeller blade were made of metal. At accidents like this the blades would fold, but stay connected to the propeller hub.

Modern turboprop plane have propeller blades made of carbon fibre. Their failure mode is to break as happened here.

At the first of the SAS Q400 accidents ten years ago the pilot didn't feather the prop and shut down the relevant engine. One passenger was seriously injured by a carbon prop blade entering the cabin, same way as this event, but luckily not fatal. At the two following accidents the crews had learned the trick to land on one MLG leg only, and there were no further injuries.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
prebennorholm
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:52 am

This is how it looks like when it is really bad....

http://www.gerryairways.com/wp-content/ ... Q400-2.jpg

And a few moments earlier.... (notice the shrapnels of propeller blades flying around)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YibvwkTXTYc
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
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FredrikHAD
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:06 pm

prebennorholm wrote:
This is how it looks like when it is really bad....

http://www.gerryairways.com/wp-content/ ... Q400-2.jpg

And a few moments earlier.... (notice the shrapnels of propeller blades flying around)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YibvwkTXTYc

47 seconds from touchdown to foam hitting the aircraft. Couldn’t have done it better myself ;)

Any word on the cause of death in the Unalaskan accident?

/Fredrik
 
bx737
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:47 pm

I remember the Fokker 50 had a reinforced strip in line with the prop blade to prevent the blade from entering the cabin if it detached. Does the SAAB2000 have this feature?
 
prebennorholm
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:20 am

FredrikHAD wrote:
prebennorholm wrote:

47 seconds from touchdown to foam hitting the aircraft. Couldn’t have done it better myself ;)

/Fredrik

47 seconds. Well the fire men had the best of two hours to get in place while the plane circled Aalborg Airport in order to burn off as much fuel as possible before the emergency landing.

It was more impressive that TV had everything in place including satellite disk for nationwide live transmission of the crashlanding.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
32andBelow
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:43 am

No sure what Alaska airlines is planning here. They aren’t letting the flights operate. Is there a plan? Tens of thousands of safe operations and they are just canceling indefinitely?
 
RJNUT
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Re: PenAir Saab 2000 Overruns Runway In Unalaska

Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:03 am

32andBelow wrote:
No sure what Alaska airlines is planning here. They aren’t letting the flights operate. Is there a plan? Tens of thousands of safe operations and they are just canceling indefinitely?

Dig up an old Dash 7 ?

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