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f4f3a
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TUI big expansion planned

Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:06 am

Sorry if this has been posted already (moderators feel free to delete if so)

I have heard strong rumours that TUI are planning to
Massively expand taking advantage of TC demise .
Looking at doing big recruitment to help expand the fleet. Hiring at first ex TC Staff by all accounts

Are they expanding fleet through new leases or keeping old frames ?
Last edited by SQ22 on Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
bhxalex
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Re: TUI big expansion planned

Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:49 am

On a related note; LS have just announced new routes from BHX & MAN, an extra 3 and 4 based aircraft respectively. Takes BHX up to 14 based aircraft next summer, not bad for a base less than 3 years old!
 
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LuxuryTravelled
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Re: TUI big expansion planned

Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:38 am

A lot of the extra capacity is going to come from third-party flying, especially through existing partners like Freebird and Aer Europa.
 
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OA260
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Re: TUI big expansion planned

Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:39 am

bhxalex wrote:
On a related note; LS have just announced new routes from BHX & MAN, an extra 3 and 4 based aircraft respectively. Takes BHX up to 14 based aircraft next summer, not bad for a base less than 3 years old!


Indeed good to see Jet2 continuing to grow.
 
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SQ22
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Re: Rumour: TUI big expansion planned

Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:42 am

I have added "Rumour" to the title due to the lack of a source.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Rumour: TUI big expansion planned

Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:53 am

The problem is the 737 supply situation. Without the MAX being in the air, expanding will be a problem - unless you need a lot of wetlease contracts.
 
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Channex757
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Re: Rumour: TUI big expansion planned

Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:01 am

SQ22 wrote:
I have added "Rumour" to the title due to the lack of a source.

Not so much a rumour. Broadcast news items in the UK report the same; TUI is looking to expand. It is after all not just an airline; expansion covers additional holiday packages to fill those seats.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Rumour: TUI big expansion planned

Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:05 am

Not too long ago there was an announcement that TUI Germany was planning to set up a long haul division, similar to those of TUI UK, Netherlands and Belgium. They'll be using 787s just like the other TUI long haul divisions.
 
PlymSpotter
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Re: Rumour: TUI big expansion planned

Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:42 am

SQ22 wrote:
I have added "Rumour" to the title due to the lack of a source.


This isn't a rumour, it was actually announced first announced and reported on a couple of weeks ago:

http://travelbulletin.co.uk/news-mainmenu/tui-reveals-ambitious-expansion-in-2019-holiday-programme
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
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LuxuryTravelled
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Re: Rumour: TUI big expansion planned

Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:53 am

seahawk wrote:
The problem is the 737 supply situation. Without the MAX being in the air, expanding will be a problem - unless you need a lot of wetlease contracts.


The use of third party flying, using 787’s on short haul and more overnight flights will easily cover it.
 
pdp
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Re: Rumour: TUI big expansion planned

Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:05 pm

seahawk wrote:
The problem is the 737 supply situation. Without the MAX being in the air, expanding will be a problem - unless you need a lot of wetlease contracts.


LS, BY (the whole group in fact) and MT are big users of ACMI lease aircraft already. Indeed, I came back from BOJ to BHX on a Smartlynx A321 operating for LS. If they need extra aircraft, their increased fees over Wizz and Ryanair will cover it.

I know LS isn't afraid of acquiring older 738s (rumour is they prefer it because of quality issues with newer ones), but would TUI do the same?
 
A388
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Re: Rumour: TUI big expansion planned

Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:35 pm

f4f3a wrote:
Looking at doing big recruitment to help expand the fleet. Hiring at first ex TC Staff by all accounts


So, does this mean TUI will take over former Thomas Cook Airbus aircraft? Or will they re-train them to fly Boeing aircraft?

Is the news of TUI Germany going for long haul flights a fact or just a rumor?

A388
 
airboss787
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Re: Rumour: TUI big expansion planned

Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:09 pm

How are TUIs finances? Are they financially stable? Profitable? Are they trying to expand to survive or are they doing well anyway?
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f4f3a
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Re: Rumour: TUI big expansion planned

Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:12 pm

Source is from someone who works there . I thought maybe taking over airbus leases would make sense but not likely by all accounts . Not sure where frames are coming
 
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OA260
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Re: Rumour: TUI big expansion planned

Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:12 pm

airboss787 wrote:
How are TUIs finances? Are they financially stable? Profitable? Are they trying to expand to survive or are they doing well anyway?


Brexit and Boeing 737 Max dent Tui profits
Quarterly profit fall of 46% blamed on grounded 737 Max jets and more holidaymakers shunning Spain

The travel firm Tui has reported a 46% drop in quarterly profits after a dip in bookings after last year’s heatwave and ongoing Brexit uncertainty, while also being hit by hefty costs over the grounding of Boeing 737 Max aircraft.

Tui had already issued two profit warnings this year, in part due to the impact of the 737 Max grounding, but stuck to its full-year guidance on Tuesday. It is forecasting a 26% drop from last year’s underlying earnings of €1.18bn (£1.09bn).

The firm’s earnings fell to €100.9m from €186.8m in the three months to 30 June, its third quarter. It blamed extra costs of €144m after Boeing grounded its 737 Max planes following two fatal crashes, as Tui had to lease replacement aircraft.

www.theguardian.com/business/2019/aug/1 ... ui-profits
 
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SQ22
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Re: Rumour: TUI big expansion planned

Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:55 pm

PlymSpotter wrote:
SQ22 wrote:
I have added "Rumour" to the title due to the lack of a source.


This isn't a rumour, it was actually announced first announced and reported on a couple of weeks ago:

http://travelbulletin.co.uk/news-mainmenu/tui-reveals-ambitious-expansion-in-2019-holiday-programme


Thanks for providing a source.
 
f4f3a
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Re: TUI big expansion planned

Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:28 pm

Is the max 10 included in the grounding . Think TUI have some of these in order ? I didn’t think they had the same MCAS on them
 
Scarebus34
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Re: TUI big expansion planned

Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:41 pm

f4f3a wrote:
Is the max 10 included in the grounding . Think TUI have some of these in order ? I didn’t think they had the same MCAS on them

Yes.
 
Ryga
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Re: TUI big expansion planned

Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:30 pm

f4f3a wrote:
Sorry if this has been posted already (moderators feel free to delete if so)

I have heard strong rumours that TUI are planning to
Massively expand taking advantage of TC demise .
Looking at doing big recruitment to help expand the fleet. Hiring at first ex TC Staff by all accounts

Are they expanding fleet through new leases or keeping old frames ?


Has been covered, however...

50 Captains will be taken on direct entry, Cabin Crew will also be taken on however no direct entry to Cabin Manager will be offered.

The flying operation will be covered mainly by the in-house airline, as well as third party flying. The airline is hoping the MAX will be ready again for the Spring, as well as the final two 789s to be delivered this winter. The airline are also looking at options to acquire aircraft, including the option of previous TCX leased aircraft while they wait for more new 737s to come in. Rumours are however coming in of a potential 787-10 order, as the airline have discussed that the 789 is cheaper to run than the 788 and the -10 will add needed capacity on short and long haul routes.

Winter 2020/21 and Summer 2021 programmes will be released 5/6months early on the 7th November, with a further increase in seats and destinations expected to be announced.

More news expected to be released in the forth coming weeks and next couple of months.
Last edited by Ryga on Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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WingsOfLove
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Re: Rumour: TUI big expansion planned

Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:37 pm

OA260 wrote:
Brexit and Boeing 737 Max dent Tui profits


Since these are results from before the TC Group bankruptcy, overcapacity & competition also dented profits. Most tour operators will report higher returns going forward.

It's almost like Tui doesn't have a choice. To ensure it can get people to the additional rooms it is contracting, Tuifly needs to grow.
 
f4f3a
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Re: TUI big expansion planned

Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:07 pm

50 captains if it’s short haul is 6-7 a/c quite a big % increase . I would have thought the 787-10 was going to be a bit large for them . I know that the fuel consumption 8-9 are very similar so it made sense to go larger. Very interesting seeing TUI and jet 2 expanding in to the void quickly
 
Ryga
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Re: TUI big expansion planned

Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:58 pm

f4f3a wrote:
50 captains if it’s short haul is 6-7 a/c quite a big % increase . I would have thought the 787-10 was going to be a bit large for them . I know that the fuel consumption 8-9 are very similar so it made sense to go larger. Very interesting seeing TUI and jet 2 expanding in to the void quickly


Absolutely, however during the summer TUI are sending a 788, 789 and a 737 to PMI on a Saturday (I believe) alone just from LGW. Similar can be said with TFS, PFO, ALC, DLM etc... The company are looking at expanding their Long Haul network also, so this could work better for them. Their premium product is also a high seller.

This winter starting from November TUI have 3 flights to BGI on Fridays, and 2 on Saturdays. Not just limited to those flights either.

However let’s see where this goes, could be an interesting road - as I said there’s more news to come in the near future.
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CRJ900
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Re: TUI big expansion planned

Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:35 pm

If the MAX are delayed indefinetly, TUI should ask Boeing to re-open the B737 NG line and order the B737-900ER with 215-218 seats for flights to larger destinations in the Med and Canary islands. With so many seats the B739ER will still be a very efficient bird.
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SASViking
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Re: TUI big expansion planned

Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:58 am

CRJ900 wrote:
If the MAX are delayed indefinetly, TUI should ask Boeing to re-open the B737 NG line and order the B737-900ER with 215-218 seats for flights to larger destinations in the Med and Canary islands. With so many seats the B739ER will still be a very efficient bird.

The big problem for the 739 is that it need a lot of runway when it's heavy. A (close to) fully loaded 739 wouldn't make it from a lot of airports in the Med and Canary Islands, add Madeira etc too, hence why many European holiday airlines don't operate them. Some keep their 757s while others choose the 738 or the A321
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f4f3a
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Re: TUI big expansion planned

Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:05 am

I wonder what contingency plan is If the ban lasts to next summer . If they took over TC Deal with air transat and use their excess frames for the summer schedule , that would be good
 
WingsOfLove
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Re: TUI big expansion planned

Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:53 pm

interview with the managing director of TUI Airways

https://atwonline.com/operations-techno ... -grounding

she's up-beat about the tour operator business model and confirms Tui will be expanding
 
marcogr12
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Re: TUI big expansion planned

Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:50 pm

SASViking wrote:
CRJ900 wrote:
If the MAX are delayed indefinetly, TUI should ask Boeing to re-open the B737 NG line and order the B737-900ER with 215-218 seats for flights to larger destinations in the Med and Canary islands. With so many seats the B739ER will still be a very efficient bird.

The big problem for the 739 is that it need a lot of runway when it's heavy. A (close to) fully loaded 739 wouldn't make it from a lot of airports in the Med and Canary Islands, add Madeira etc too, hence why many European holiday airlines don't operate them. Some keep their 757s while others choose the 738 or the A321

A lot of heavies fly to the Canaries, esp. TFS and LPA..As for Madeira i have seen TAP send an A332..So why wouldnt the 739ER make it?
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
eamondzhang
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Re: TUI big expansion planned

Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:42 am

marcogr12 wrote:
A lot of heavies fly to the Canaries, esp. TFS and LPA..As for Madeira i have seen TAP send an A332..So why wouldnt the 739ER make it?

When 739ER flies long flights with a full load and taking off close to MTOW it'll need more than 3000m of runway - a runway dog compared to heavies which will have far better take off performance when flying shorthaul. I've also heard it's difficult to fly the plane when it's windy.

Maderia with its condition is probably less than ideal for the plane.

Michael
 
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SASViking
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Re: TUI big expansion planned

Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:07 am

marcogr12 wrote:
SASViking wrote:
CRJ900 wrote:
If the MAX are delayed indefinetly, TUI should ask Boeing to re-open the B737 NG line and order the B737-900ER with 215-218 seats for flights to larger destinations in the Med and Canary islands. With so many seats the B739ER will still be a very efficient bird.

The big problem for the 739 is that it need a lot of runway when it's heavy. A (close to) fully loaded 739 wouldn't make it from a lot of airports in the Med and Canary Islands, add Madeira etc too, hence why many European holiday airlines don't operate them. Some keep their 757s while others choose the 738 or the A321

A lot of heavies fly to the Canaries, esp. TFS and LPA..As for Madeira i have seen TAP send an A332..So why wouldnt the 739ER make it?

As Michael said. It's about takeoff performance. A fully loaded A332 needs less runway than a fully loaded B739.
The runway at FNC isn't that short, it's the 739 that has a terrible takeoff performance. A 739 needs roughly the same amount of runway for takeoff as a fully loaded A380 when it's heavy
Last edited by SASViking on Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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seahawk
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Re: TUI big expansion planned

Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:35 am

CRJ900 wrote:
If the MAX are delayed indefinetly, TUI should ask Boeing to re-open the B737 NG line and order the B737-900ER with 215-218 seats for flights to larger destinations in the Med and Canary islands. With so many seats the B739ER will still be a very efficient bird.


If you believe your MAX won´t be ready until you get get new 737-900ERs, you better hire all Thomas Cook crews you can get and beg Airbus for A320s.
 
IWMBH
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Re: TUI big expansion planned

Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:51 pm

CRJ900 wrote:
If the MAX are delayed indefinetly, TUI should ask Boeing to re-open the B737 NG line and order the B737-900ER with 215-218 seats for flights to larger destinations in the Med and Canary islands. With so many seats the B739ER will still be a very efficient bird.


The B737NG line is still open. The last 738 for KLM has yet to be delivered. But, as mentioned here, the MAX crises is probably over before the 737NG’s are delivered.

I think some second hand 737’s will be great for TUI. They will be widely available when the MAX starts flying again.
 
marcogr12
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Re: TUI big expansion planned

Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:56 pm

SASViking wrote:
marcogr12 wrote:
SASViking wrote:
The big problem for the 739 is that it need a lot of runway when it's heavy. A (close to) fully loaded 739 wouldn't make it from a lot of airports in the Med and Canary Islands, add Madeira etc too, hence why many European holiday airlines don't operate them. Some keep their 757s while others choose the 738 or the A321

A lot of heavies fly to the Canaries, esp. TFS and LPA..As for Madeira i have seen TAP send an A332..So why wouldnt the 739ER make it?

As Michael said. It's about takeoff performance. A fully loaded A332 needs less runway than a fully loaded B739.
The runway at FNC isn't that short, it's the 739 that has a terrible takeoff performance. A 739 needs roughly the same amount of runway for takeoff as a fully loaded A380 when it's heavy

Wow..a true dog...Even Condor's 753s that seat up to 275pax dont have a problem taking off from FNC...
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
Ryga
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Re: TUI big expansion planned

Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:20 pm

TUI is adding multiple new destinations and frequencies from 13 UK airports for next year in its biggest summer programme.

The move follows the operator announcing two million extra seats from the UK after the collapse of Thomas Cook.

The bulk of the growth is at Manchester airport where 440,000 seats have been added.

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/ ... ummer-2020

The TUI UK&I have also confirmed that Services to Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt will be resuming.

http://travelweekly.co.uk/articles/3472 ... ice-change
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