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Mortyman
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Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers on Norway

Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:44 pm

Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers

Aviation history was made when the Remote Tower Centre in Bodø, Norway went “live” on the 19th of October. The Remote Tower Centre successfully guided its first commercial passenger flight with passengers to the Arctic airport of Røst in Norway.

The Remote Towers project in Norway is a collaboration between the airport and air navigation service provider Avinor and the technology companies Kongsberg Defence & Aerospace and Indra.

Read more here:

https://www.kongsberg.com/news-and-medi ... he-arctic/

Image


This will be helpful for the many rural airports in Norway and eventually larger ones in my opinion
 
airevents
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Re: Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers

Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:06 pm

This has been done in Germany for a while. Saarbrücken is one of the airports with a remote tower (run from Leipzig).
 
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whisperjet727
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Re: Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers

Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:07 pm

Successful meaning it failed in the past?
 
Mortyman
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Re: Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers

Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:41 pm

Sorry, title should be " Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers in Norway "
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers

Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:50 pm

You do realize that planes land all the time without a tower “to guide them”. Towers just assist pilots in traffic separation, no guidance needed.
 
Mortyman
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Re: Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers

Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:17 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
You do realize that planes land all the time without a tower “to guide them”. Towers just assist pilots in traffic separation, no guidance needed.



This is about remote towers on smaller remote airports, run from a service from far away in a different part of the country.
 
Kilopond
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Re: Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers

Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:46 pm

It`s all about the complex thing the FAA calls "NextGen ATC". Here is a link to a parallel project in US-CO:
https://www.codot.gov/programs/remote-tower/TheProject

And here is what the guys and gals at Wiki think:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_and_virtual_tower
 
pdp
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Re: Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers

Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:55 pm

Mortyman wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
You do realize that planes land all the time without a tower “to guide them”. Towers just assist pilots in traffic separation, no guidance needed.



This is about remote towers on smaller remote airports, run from a service from far away in a different part of the country.


LCY already has this, they run the tower from Swanwick (London Control).
 
32andBelow
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Re: Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers

Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:15 pm

You know in America there are airports that have a good amount of commercial service that have no tower at all.
 
sonicruiser
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Re: Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers

Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:23 pm

32andBelow wrote:
You know in America there are airports that have a good amount of commercial service that have no tower at all.


Which ones?
شما می توانید مردم را تحریم کنید ، اما نمی توانید سبک تحریم را اعمال کنید

You can sanction people, but you can't sanction style
 
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barney captain
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Re: Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers

Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:27 pm

sonicruiser wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
You know in America there are airports that have a good amount of commercial service that have no tower at all.


Which ones?


Many - too numerous to name.

An even greater number have towers that are not 24hr - SJC for example (certainly a large airport). SJC tower closes after midnight, as do many other airports like KOA and MAF, while the airport itself remains open.
Last edited by barney captain on Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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zeke
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Re: Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers

Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:28 pm

I think Airservices Australia and Saab have been doing this since 2011
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
Bostrom
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Re: Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers

Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:12 pm

airevents wrote:
This has been done in Germany for a while. Saarbrücken is one of the airports with a remote tower (run from Leipzig).


I think Örnsköldsvik (OER) in Sweden was the first one, the tower there has been remote controlled since 2015.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers

Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:59 pm

Mortyman wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
You do realize that planes land all the time without a tower “to guide them”. Towers just assist pilots in traffic separation, no guidance needed.



This is about remote towers on smaller remote airports, run from a service from far away in a different part of the country.


I know exactly what it’s about and my comment stands—crews can land a plane quite successfully without ATC.

To the thread title, were there unsuccessful landings?
 
Varsity1
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Re: Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers on Norway

Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:28 pm

Canada has had remote towers for like ever.

The USA doesn’t have have tower control at all at most (non major) airports.
 
aircatalonia
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Re: Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers on Norway

Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:13 pm

It's see how long it takes the controller to hack those screens and play flight sim.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers

Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:01 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
You do realize that planes land all the time without a tower “to guide them”. Towers just assist pilots in traffic separation, no guidance needed.



This is about remote towers on smaller remote airports, run from a service from far away in a different part of the country.


I know exactly what it’s about and my comment stands—crews can land a plane quite successfully without ATC.

To the thread title, were there unsuccessful landings?

We still control them. But we do it from the center. Can even get two planes relatively close just using non radar procedural separation
 
airplanenut
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Re: Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers

Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:19 pm

sonicruiser wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
You know in America there are airports that have a good amount of commercial service that have no tower at all.


Which ones?


Just in Washington state...

PAE tower closes at night (they now have Embraer service, and sometimes a Boeing test flight or Dreamlifter will be in/out while the tower closes)
EAT has no tower
PSC tower closes at night
YKM tower closes at night
PUW has no tower
ALW tower closes at night
Why yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist...
 
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zkojq
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Re: Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers on Norway

Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:23 pm

Is it actually a good thing though? For sure impressive technologically but it's important for remote communities to have high paying jobs like ATC. Is centralising jobs from places like Lofoten, Alta, Andoya, Hammerfest and Kirkenes to Bodo really a good thing?
First to fly the 787-9
 
32andBelow
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Re: Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers

Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:19 pm

airplanenut wrote:
sonicruiser wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
You know in America there are airports that have a good amount of commercial service that have no tower at all.


Which ones?


Just in Washington state...

PAE tower closes at night (they now have Embraer service, and sometimes a Boeing test flight or Dreamlifter will be in/out while the tower closes)
EAT has no tower
PSC tower closes at night
YKM tower closes at night
PUW has no tower
ALW tower closes at night

In Alaska there is just about every village short of a handful.

KTN and SIT gets lost of service on mainline aircraft. As well as air taxi and private jets. No tower.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers on Norway

Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:28 pm

This could be a game changer. With VR and ultra HD camera feeds we could centralize tower and ground controllers for currently uncontrolled airports into large regional facilities. I really dislike going into uncontrolled airporfs. Too many pilots out there who think they can do as they please and not follow proper procedure. We should demand safer skIES and greater precision. No more sky cowboys.
 
HP69
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Re: Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers on Norway

Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:29 pm

This will revolutionize air travel.
 
DTVG
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Re: Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers on Norway

Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:11 am

zkojq wrote:
Is it actually a good thing though? For sure impressive technologically but it's important for remote communities to have high paying jobs like ATC. Is centralising jobs from places like Lofoten, Alta, Andoya, Hammerfest and Kirkenes to Bodo really a good thing?


The whole point here is to maximise the use of costly infrastructure and human capital. Of course, if you want to play regional politics and subsidies these regions indirectly, you're right.
 
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Lingon
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Re: Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers

Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:05 pm

zeke wrote:
I think Airservices Australia and Saab have been doing this since 2011


Saab Digital Air Traffic Solutions have three (two?) airports in Sweden with remote towers. Five more are to get the system in the coming three years where the biggest (MMX) has over two million passengers yearly.

I think it will be very common in just a few years.
 
ual763
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Re: Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers on Norway

Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:10 pm

Except it is harder than hell to see aircraft any further than 3 miles out in the daytime on the video screens. At least that is how it seemed at the remote tower in JYO.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
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Crosswind
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Re: Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers

Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:41 pm

pdp wrote:

LCY already has this, they run the tower from Swanwick (London Control).


The tower is still under construction. It’s definitely not in use.

Best Regards
CROSSWIND
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers on Norway

Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:04 pm

DTVG wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Is it actually a good thing though? For sure impressive technologically but it's important for remote communities to have high paying jobs like ATC. Is centralising jobs from places like Lofoten, Alta, Andoya, Hammerfest and Kirkenes to Bodo really a good thing?


The whole point here is to maximise the use of costly infrastructure and human capital. Of course, if you want to play regional politics and subsidies these regions indirectly, you're right.

Exactly.
To take one of examples cited by airplanenut;
EAT averages 122 flights per day, 69% GA, 29% air taxi, and two flights (one take-off + one landing?) which appear to be the daily Horizon Air Dash 8.
Do you really need a full time employee (plus relief staff) for this airport? What are they going to do with all their spare time? Compile crosswords, knit jumpers....

If you want to devolve high paying jobs to remote communities, then set up the remote tower, and all it's associated technology, in such a community, and make it a condition of employment that the ATC staff all live in this one location. Preferably within walking distance of the building housing the screens.
Quite whether you would be able to attract employees is another matter. There will be quite a few spouses (& children) who might not be so keen.
On the other hand, this is exactly what most military organisations do; send people to far flung locations (sometimes war zones) whether they like it or not.
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers on Norway

Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:11 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
This could be a game changer. With VR and ultra HD camera feeds we could centralize tower and ground controllers for currently uncontrolled airports into large regional facilities. I really dislike going into uncontrolled airporfs. Too many pilots out there who think they can do as they please and not follow proper procedure. We should demand safer skIES and greater precision. No more sky cowboys.


ATC is not a replacement for poor training and airmanship. I’ve operated everything from an Aeronca to a bizjet to a C-5/727 at uncontrolled airports. There are clearly laid-out operating rules and common sense airmanship for uncontrolled fields, just follow them. OTOH, I’ve had TCAS R/As in the pattern at KCEF and KHPN, both under radar control.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers on Norway

Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:17 pm

ual763 wrote:
Except it is harder than hell to see aircraft any further than 3 miles out in the daytime on the video screens. At least that is how it seemed at the remote tower in JYO.

I would always prefer to view a scene with my own eyes instead of through a technological filter. We humans have a natural ability to take in both a wide angle and concentrate on a particular spot, literally in the blink of an eye. Split screens and multi-screen presentation must surely go some way towards this.

We are frequently informed that TV cameras are able to transmit sports events where the failing light on an overcast day makes it difficult for the live spectators actually present at the event. They can adjust contrast and brightness to show a tiny golf ball in flight far better than my eyesight is capable of.

As for picking out an aircraft at 3 miles range on the screens, I have the same problem with my digital camera. If only there was some kind of zoom function available...… :roll:
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers on Norway

Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:24 pm

At is simplest, and via radio a remote tower could insure only one plane at a time was in the immediate landing pattern. Adding radar and camera is likely is the next step up.
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frmrCapCadet
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Re: Successful first landing by passenger aircraft using Remote Towers on Norway

Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:25 pm

At is simplest, and via radio a remote tower could insure only one plane at a time was in the immediate landing pattern. Adding radar and camera is likely is the next step up. Then a drone or robot going down the runway would first insure its condition. Devices to assist bad weather and poor visibility likely would not be far behind. And get fairly cheap.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)

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