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aa87
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Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:31 pm

Apologies if already covered, but I have a specific question. Great feat and kudos to QF, but with all the talk of research of effects of ultra-long haul and testing, etc., what exactly is so different about JFK-SYD (up to 20 hours depending on winds) v. EWR-SIN (up to 19 hours) ? SIN first launched that I think a good 10 years ago with an A340 (-500 or -600), and resumed w an A350 after a hiatus of a few years. Not taking anything away from QF, but is an extra 1.5-2 hours really such a watershed, either technologically or biologically for PAX ?
 
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:34 pm

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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:48 pm

I was wondering the same thing as well. Its not that long from the SQ flights, yet QF is doing all these test flights, it is creating a buzz though I have to admit its good for marketing purposes.


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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:49 pm

I believe someone did a comparison the other day on twitter between the two flights and the difference was only 24 minutes.
 
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:54 pm

PR and marketing!
 
btfarrwm
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:57 pm

SIN-EWR was started as an all-J layout. Even on the A350, it’s First, Business and Premium Economy. I think they want to do research on ULH flights in economy class for one.
 
FromCDGtoSYD
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:04 pm

btfarrwm wrote:
SIN-EWR was started as an all-J layout. Even on the A350, it’s First, Business and Premium Economy. I think they want to do research on ULH flights in economy class for one.


They might want to actually put people in economy seats then rather than having 100% of the passengers comfortably seated in business class....
 
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:08 pm

Believe it or not, there are actually people out there who would pay money to be tortured for 19 hours.
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:11 pm

sonicruiser wrote:
Believe it or not, there are actually people out there who would pay money to be tortured for 19 hours.


Or 23 Hours. Cause they have to wait couple hours in foreign airport with no bed to sleep on and jet lag while paying $20-30 for light meals between the transit. Or another $30-50 for showers.

Besides, First, Business and premium economy would fine. You only need to worry about economy class.
 
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:21 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
I believe someone did a comparison the other day on twitter between the two flights and the difference was only 24 minutes.


You may want to check that, the average SIN-EWR is 17hrs32mins and EWR-SIN is 17hrs38mins. The QF research flight JFK-SYD was 19hrs15mins. Qantas has said from the outset JFK-SYD would take 19 and a half hours so the difference is greater than 24 minutes
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Ishrion
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:23 pm

qf789 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
I believe someone did a comparison the other day on twitter between the two flights and the difference was only 24 minutes.


You may want to check that, the average SIN-EWR is 17hrs32mins and EWR-SIN is 17hrs38mins. The QF research flight JFK-SYD was 19hrs15mins. Qantas has said from the outset JFK-SYD would take 19 and a half hours so the difference is greater than 24 minutes


This is the Tweet: https://twitter.com/rafat/status/1185709261466329089

I don't feel like it's accurate because FlightAware has some discrepancies compared to FR24. I'm pretty sure FlightAware includes time on the ground after it leaves the gate...
 
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:45 pm

Ishrion wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
I believe someone did a comparison the other day on twitter between the two flights and the difference was only 24 minutes.


You may want to check that, the average SIN-EWR is 17hrs32mins and EWR-SIN is 17hrs38mins. The QF research flight JFK-SYD was 19hrs15mins. Qantas has said from the outset JFK-SYD would take 19 and a half hours so the difference is greater than 24 minutes


This is the Tweet: https://twitter.com/rafat/status/1185709261466329089

I don't feel like it's accurate because FlightAware has some discrepancies compared to FR24. I'm pretty sure FlightAware includes time on the ground after it leaves the gate...


You are right, flightaware includes taxi time whereas FR24 is just flight time. There is no taxi time on the Qantas flight on flightaware so realistically the 2 flights can not be compared fairly with inconclusive data. FR24 shows the SQ flight that day was 17hrs59mins vs the charter flight of Qantas at 19hrs15mins, that's 1hr16mins not 24 mins difference
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:27 pm

qf789 wrote:

You are right, flightaware includes taxi time whereas FR24 is just flight time. There is no taxi time on the Qantas flight on flightaware so realistically the 2 flights can not be compared fairly with inconclusive data. FR24 shows the SQ flight that day was 17hrs59mins vs the charter flight of Qantas at 19hrs15mins, that's 1hr16mins not 24 mins difference


But is 1hr 16mins that much of a stretch over the SQ flight? Me thinks not.
 
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:30 pm

LX015 wrote:
qf789 wrote:

You are right, flightaware includes taxi time whereas FR24 is just flight time. There is no taxi time on the Qantas flight on flightaware so realistically the 2 flights can not be compared fairly with inconclusive data. FR24 shows the SQ flight that day was 17hrs59mins vs the charter flight of Qantas at 19hrs15mins, that's 1hr16mins not 24 mins difference


But is 1hr 16mins that much of a stretch over the SQ flight? Me thinks not.


When you have to carry the gas for the 19th hour for 18 hours it's a big deal.
 
Turnhouse1
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:44 pm

Presumably an A350ULR in the SQ J/W configuration could fly JFK-SYD, but it probably couldn't fly SYD-LHR. So yes there is a lot of PR about this, QF are good at this the PER-LHR flight gets a lot more press than DOH-AKL which is marginally longer.
 
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:48 pm

btfarrwm wrote:
SIN-EWR was started as an all-J layout. Even on the A350, it’s First, Business and Premium Economy. I think they want to do research on ULH flights in economy class for one.


Back in 2006-2007 SQ 345's had both J class and a Premium Economy section (7 across, and they proclaimed 20% more more).
 
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:53 pm

Some of the people here are *triggered*... :lol: :rotfl: :coffee:
 
HP69
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:12 pm

Will QF fly to EWR instead of JFK? It would shave off a few hundred miles.
 
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:21 pm

HP69 wrote:
Will QF fly to EWR instead of JFK? It would shave off a few hundred miles.


difference is 17 nm, syd - jfk 8646 nm, syd -ewr 8629 nm
 
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:22 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
HP69 wrote:
Will QF fly to EWR instead of JFK? It would shave off a few hundred miles.


difference is 17 nm, syd - jfk 8646 nm, syd -ewr 8629 nm


That is nm in real miles it is much more.
 
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:20 pm

HP69 wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
HP69 wrote:
Will QF fly to EWR instead of JFK? It would shave off a few hundred miles.


difference is 17 nm, syd - jfk 8646 nm, syd -ewr 8629 nm


That is nm in real miles it is much more.

What?? EWR is on the other side of the river not other side of the country. Just looking at the map!

Michael
 
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:20 pm

aa87 wrote:
Apologies if already covered, but I have a specific question. Great feat and kudos to QF, but with all the talk of research of effects of ultra-long haul and testing, etc., what exactly is so different about JFK-SYD (up to 20 hours depending on winds) v. EWR-SIN (up to 19 hours) ? SIN first launched that I think a good 10 years ago with an A340 (-500 or -600), and resumed w an A350 after a hiatus of a few years. Not taking anything away from QF, but is an extra 1.5-2 hours really such a watershed, either technologically or biologically for PAX ?

Firstly, JFK-SYD isn't the longest of the Sunrise flights, that's SYD-LHR. It's 900nm further than SIN-JFK, itself a low-density outlier, being 500nm further than the Qatar flight to Auckland. I'd say that was significant.
Down with that sort of thing!
 
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:31 pm

HP69 wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
HP69 wrote:
Will QF fly to EWR instead of JFK? It would shave off a few hundred miles.


difference is 17 nm, syd - jfk 8646 nm, syd -ewr 8629 nm


That is nm in real miles it is much more.


So it's 19 miles then
 
maverick4002
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:41 pm

I assume because they dont have data like SQ does?
 
VC10er
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:53 pm

[quote="sonicruiser"]Believe it or not, there are actually people out there who would pay money to be tortured for 19 hours.[/quote]

Assuming that Economy would be many thousands of dollars, yes. At 19 hours, that is a 2 or 3 Xanax trip! I have friends who will do a NY to HKG flight or similar in Y and knock themselves out after movie+meal for 6 to 8 hours, then movie, eat, then knock themselves out again with benzodiazepines- rather than pay $8000 more than Y.

As benzodiazepines are controlled Rx, and can be addictive, their Dr’s are OK prescribing 8 to 10 tabs only.

Personally I would fear a DVT, because I got one at 33 years old from flying too much! I could have easily died if the clot dislodged! After that I had a Dr note that my legs had to be level with my heart for any flight over 3 hours. (which got me in J for every flight at 33 instead of just Senior Execs at 53!)

Would a US3 ever attempt to do this?
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dmstorm22
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:00 pm

VC10er wrote:
sonicruiser wrote:
Believe it or not, there are actually people out there who would pay money to be tortured for 19 hours.


Assuming that Economy would be many thousands of dollars, yes. At 19 hours, that is a 2 or 3 Xanax trip! I have friends who will do a NY to HKG flight or similar in Y and knock themselves out after movie+meal for 6 to 8 hours, then movie, eat, then knock themselves out again with benzodiazepines- rather than pay $8000 more than Y.

As benzodiazepines are controlled Rx, and can be addictive, their Dr’s are OK prescribing 8 to 10 tabs only.

Personally I would fear a DVT, because I got one at 33 years old from flying too much! I could have easily died if the clot dislodged! After that I had a Dr note that my legs had to be level with my heart for any flight over 3 hours. (which got me in J for every flight at 33 instead of just Senior Execs at 53!)

Would a US3 ever attempt to do this?


DVT is a real fear, but is the risk that much worse on this flight than the current ULH flights going now. We're at point were there are a couple dozen flights in the 16h30m - 18h00m range.

As far as the US3, I could see a world where UA attempts it from EWR, but I think a lot would have to happen, namely QF doing it successfully and them probably going with an A359lr sub-fleet.
 
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:10 pm

ShamrockBoi330 wrote:
PR and marketing!

That and Boeing doesn't want to lose this sale.
Every passenger on this flight had a flat bed to sleep on. With enough movies to watch and a flat bed to sleep on, 20 hours in a plane is really easy. Research my a$$. It's 100% publicity.
As for the pilots, it's a double crew = 10 hour work day. Some of us do that nearly every day of the week in 6x6 cubicle without a window :rotfl:
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:22 pm

HP69 wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
HP69 wrote:
Will QF fly to EWR instead of JFK? It would shave off a few hundred miles.


difference is 17 nm, syd - jfk 8646 nm, syd -ewr 8629 nm


That is nm in real miles it is much more.


Thanks man now my brain is bleeding......
 
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:46 pm

aa87 wrote:
what exactly is so different about JFK-SYD (up to 20 hours depending on winds) v. EWR-SIN (up to 19 hours) ?


Not a lot of difference, in many ways polar flying with the remote alternates, the higher radiation levels are harder on crews than the QF route.

Keep in mind delivery flights are come in under operating expenses for an airline, the airline pays for the fuel and crew expenses. Calling this a research flight would make all the expenses are a tax deduction for QF.

A couple of flights will not provide any meaningful amount of statistical data, sample size too small.
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a19901213
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:20 am

This research flight really was mainly for publicity. If they want some really meaningful data they already have them from PER-LHR route.

1 flight, you wouldn’t expect to get anything statistically meaningful data.
 
HP69
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:57 am

Fuling wrote:
HP69 wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:

difference is 17 nm, syd - jfk 8646 nm, syd -ewr 8629 nm


That is nm in real miles it is much more.


So it's 19 miles then


Source?
 
Ishrion
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:06 am

HP69 wrote:
Fuling wrote:
HP69 wrote:

That is nm in real miles it is much more.


So it's 19 miles then


Source?


Did you really just ask for a source for a mile converter?

SYD-EWR: 9,930 mi
SYD-JFK: 9,950 mi

20 mi = 17 nmi

Source: Google
 
QXAS
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:13 am

HP69 wrote:
Fuling wrote:
HP69 wrote:

That is nm in real miles it is much more.


So it's 19 miles then


Source?

Maths. 17x1.14=19.38 SM. 1.14 being the conversion from NM to SM.
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flee
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:15 am

btfarrwm wrote:
SIN-EWR was started as an all-J layout. Even on the A350, it’s First, Business and Premium Economy. I think they want to do research on ULH flights in economy class for one.

Yes, I don't really think economy class should be offered on these flights.

Premium economy with at least 34" seat pitch and 2-4-2 seating per row is essential so that the pax can stretch out more comfortably. You do not want to the curled up in a small space for 20 hours.
 
Pcoder
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:31 am

I'll have to note the that a considerable amount of premium passenger on Qantas are upgraded or reward redemption tickets. This is at least part of the reasoning behind having the economy cabin.

But I think as these legs will be very long, they need to offer a Y+ seat, in a similar vein to what JAL offers. Cheap airfares can still go through Singapore and LAX, but since this is a special service, they should be able to charge a little more.

QF needs to look at how JAL is able to offer a great economy without eating up its W, J and F products.
 
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:53 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
Pcoder wrote:
I'll have to note the that a considerable amount of premium passenger on Qantas are upgraded or reward redemption tickets. This is at least part of the reasoning behind having the economy cabin.



That is complete and utter bovine faeces. If you said that a decent number are on corporate fares paying less than the retail fare, I can't argue, but the overwhelming majority of Qantas premium passengers are on paid fares. Trying to get a points upgrade on the major corporate routes such as LHR and LAX is nigh on impossible if you aren't Platinum or above, and unlikely even if you are.


Someone I knew went to a conference with Alan Joyce as speaker and he said that a fair number of their premium passengers are rewards or upgrades.

Remember Qantas international would get compensation from the frequent flyer program and since you can't upgrade on the cheapest ticket, increased revenue from ticket sales.

I'm just highlighting some of QFs business practices. It would still get a good number of full paying passengers, but since it frequent flyer program us a large part of its business, it also gets revenue from reward and upgrades.
 
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:05 am

HP69 wrote:

Source?


OMG, LMAO. You did not just post that. Dude look at a map.
 
JohanTally
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:24 am

One of the primary reasons for these research flights is to determine what provisions will need to be made in QFs next CBA with pilots and cabin crew to allow revenue flights of this length. Currently the QFs pilots CBA doesn't allow flights this far. Pilots are going to request more crew than the current PER-LHR route and probably more captains rather than multiple 1st and 2nd officers. I expect a battle to ensue before a firm order is placed for QF ULH birds.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:28 am

JohanTally wrote:
One of the primary reasons for these research flights is to determine what provisions will need to be made in QFs next CBA with pilots and cabin crew to allow revenue flights of this length. Currently the QFs pilots CBA doesn't allow flights this far. Pilots are going to request more crew than the current PER-LHR route and probably more captains rather than multiple 1st and 2nd officers. I expect a battle to ensue before a firm order is placed for QF ULH birds.


How does QF staff PER-LHR for pilots?
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:34 am

Pcoder wrote:
Someone I knew went to a conference with Alan Joyce as speaker and he said that a fair number of their premium passengers are rewards or upgrades.

Domestic maybe and off-peak times, but not international. Have you ever tried to grab a reward seat for international premium class? Certainly not the level that you're asserting. Not uncommon to have 1-2 reward seats per flight (and a few more for A380 given it has a larger premium cabin to start with) but that's about it.

Michael
 
Pcoder
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:49 am

eamondzhang wrote:
Pcoder wrote:
Someone I knew went to a conference with Alan Joyce as speaker and he said that a fair number of their premium passengers are rewards or upgrades.

Domestic maybe and off-peak times, but not international. Have you ever tried to grab a reward seat for international premium class? Certainly not the level that you're asserting. Not uncommon to have 1-2 reward seats per flight (and a few more for A380 given it has a larger premium cabin to start with) but that's about it.

Michael

Yes I have got reward seats and upgrades, including on routes like sin-mel. The beauty of the upgrade is that if Qantas can't sell the seat, it still gets extra revenue from having someone use their points.

Another advantage is that they don't have to discount as much since even if the seats are not sold, they'll still get the extra revenue. This also helps out with business types who do look at the cost and will purchase anyway.

I also know of people who have travelled for business in economy (usually a flexible fare) and upgraded using their Qantas points.

I'm just highlighting some things I know about Qantas and the reason why compared to Singapore with it's ultra long haul, why it would be offering the economy seats.
 
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:07 am

aa87 wrote:
Apologies if already covered, but I have a specific question. Great feat and kudos to QF, but with all the talk of research of effects of ultra-long haul and testing, etc., what exactly is so different about JFK-SYD (up to 20 hours depending on winds) v. EWR-SIN (up to 19 hours) ? SIN first launched that I think a good 10 years ago with an A340 (-500 or -600), and resumed w an A350 after a hiatus of a few years. Not taking anything away from QF, but is an extra 1.5-2 hours really such a watershed, either technologically or biologically for PAX ?


It's not that there is a significant change between QF and SQ but there is not a large body of actual science on how the body reacts to these long flights. QF has done some similar things on the LHR-PER flights to monitor individuals and how their bodies react and recover to the flight.

There are two primary reasons to do this sort of research from QF's perspective:

1) QF's future network is all about bypassing hubs. You've already seen BNE-ORD and PER-LHR and QF's future network will consist of a whole lot more of this. So it's in QF's long term interest to have as much scientific data as possible on how these flights effect their passengers and crew;
2) QF uses this data to design their in-flight experience. Alan Joyce has already said that it's likely that the Project Sunrise aircraft will have a different economy seat to the 787's and they also re-designed their menu for PER-LHR as well. I'd expect similar things to that to happen in the Project Sunrise aircraft based on this type of research.

So yes this is great for marketing and PR but these flights also do generate scientific data that QF, and the researchers, will use in future. The future of QF depends on customers willing to be couped up for 20 hours so it's very much in their long term commercial interest to make sure they have sufficient data to base their future in-flight experience on.
 
JohanTally
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:13 am

CriticalPoint wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
One of the primary reasons for these research flights is to determine what provisions will need to be made in QFs next CBA with pilots and cabin crew to allow revenue flights of this length. Currently the QFs pilots CBA doesn't allow flights this far. Pilots are going to request more crew than the current PER-LHR route and probably more captains rather than multiple 1st and 2nd officers. I expect a battle to ensue before a firm order is placed for QF ULH birds.


How does QF staff PER-LHR for pilots?


Don't quote me on this but I believe it's something like 1 captain 1 or 2 first officers and 1 or 2 second officers for a total of 4 flight crew. I have always heard that the pilots union is pushing for more captains for flights like these. When the 787 was ordered QF wasn't doing as well financially as they are today and they got the pilots to take concessions before placing the aircraft.
 
SEAflyer97
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:18 am

btfarrwm wrote:
SIN-EWR was started as an all-J layout. Even on the A350, it’s First, Business and Premium Economy. I think they want to do research on ULH flights in economy class for one.

There’s no F on SQ A350ULR
 
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:18 am

btfarrwm wrote:
SIN-EWR was started as an all-J layout. Even on the A350, it’s First, Business and Premium Economy. I think they want to do research on ULH flights in economy class for one.


The SQ A340-500s were delivered in 2003-2004 with 64 Business Class (called Raffles Class) seats and 117 Premium Economy Class (called Executive Economy Class) seats for a total of 181 seats. The conversion to all-Business Class (100 seats) was introduced in 2008.

Their A350-900ULRs are 2-class; Business Class and Premium Economy Class (67J94S) for a total of 161 seats.
 
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:37 am

HP69 wrote:
Fuling wrote:
HP69 wrote:

That is nm in real miles it is much more.


So it's 19 miles then


Source?


I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are trolling on 80% of your post?


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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:06 am

JohanTally wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
One of the primary reasons for these research flights is to determine what provisions will need to be made in QFs next CBA with pilots and cabin crew to allow revenue flights of this length. Currently the QFs pilots CBA doesn't allow flights this far. Pilots are going to request more crew than the current PER-LHR route and probably more captains rather than multiple 1st and 2nd officers. I expect a battle to ensue before a firm order is placed for QF ULH birds.


How does QF staff PER-LHR for pilots?


Don't quote me on this but I believe it's something like 1 captain 1 or 2 first officers and 1 or 2 second officers for a total of 4 flight crew. I have always heard that the pilots union is pushing for more captains for flights like these. When the 787 was ordered QF wasn't doing as well financially as they are today and they got the pilots to take concessions before placing the aircraft.


KLM is another airline with second officers. We have just a few 4 crew flights. Normally they consist of 1 capt 2 FO and 1 SO. Incidentally they will schedule 1 FO and 2 SO instead. I don’t see what extra captains would bring. All FOs are basically cruise captains anyway when the skippers taking his rest. Maybe it’s a pay thing given the union asking for this.
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:19 am

btfarrwm wrote:
SIN-EWR was started as an all-J layout.

No it wasn't. Back then, SQ's A345s had 181 seats, split between business and premium economy.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:46 am

dmstorm22 wrote:
VC10er wrote:
sonicruiser wrote:
Believe it or not, there are actually people out there who would pay money to be tortured for 19 hours.


Assuming that Economy would be many thousands of dollars, yes. At 19 hours, that is a 2 or 3 Xanax trip! I have friends who will do a NY to HKG flight or similar in Y and knock themselves out after movie+meal for 6 to 8 hours, then movie, eat, then knock themselves out again with benzodiazepines- rather than pay $8000 more than Y.

As benzodiazepines are controlled Rx, and can be addictive, their Dr’s are OK prescribing 8 to 10 tabs only.

Personally I would fear a DVT, because I got one at 33 years old from flying too much! I could have easily died if the clot dislodged! After that I had a Dr note that my legs had to be level with my heart for any flight over 3 hours. (which got me in J for every flight at 33 instead of just Senior Execs at 53!)

Would a US3 ever attempt to do this?


DVT is a real fear, but is the risk that much worse on this flight than the current ULH flights going now. We're at point were there are a couple dozen flights in the 16h30m - 18h00m range.

As far as the US3, I could see a world where UA attempts it from EWR, but I think a lot would have to happen, namely QF doing it successfully and them probably going with an A359lr sub-fleet.


Actually, DVT’s from flying (and trust me on this as I had become a very studied patient as people do not get a DVT in their calf at 33 years old!) I was one of the early few who ushered in this phenomenon! All that needs to happen is having your legs in a downward, cramped space, stationary (worst is when you cross your legs, where one calf is under even more stress from the weight from the other...and only just long enough on a pressurized cabin, for the blood moving in your leg vessels to slow down to near stopping: is enough for a clot to form. When your legs are up, closer aligned to you heart as in a lie flat seat. Ergo: the term “coach class clot” to emerge. I was on Coumadin for 6 months after!

Back to topic:
If Qantas uses a 789, why couldn’t UA use one of theirs? At my last company we were forbidden by corporate travel to book business on that SQ A340-500 because of price. We had to fly either UA via HKG or BA flying in the opposite direction due to corporate contacts. If that is true with other big corporations, if UA could do it nonstop for a lower fare than Qantas or SQ to SIN, what would UA need to do to use a 789 to fly nonstop EWR to SYD/SIN? A special subfleet configured 789 with very High J and PE, or would they require additional fuel tanks, (engines?)
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Re: Qantas Project Sunrise: JFK-SYD v. EWR-SIN ?

Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:45 am

VC10er wrote:
dmstorm22 wrote:
VC10er wrote:

Assuming that Economy would be many thousands of dollars, yes. At 19 hours, that is a 2 or 3 Xanax trip! I have friends who will do a NY to HKG flight or similar in Y and knock themselves out after movie+meal for 6 to 8 hours, then movie, eat, then knock themselves out again with benzodiazepines- rather than pay $8000 more than Y.

As benzodiazepines are controlled Rx, and can be addictive, their Dr’s are OK prescribing 8 to 10 tabs only.

Personally I would fear a DVT, because I got one at 33 years old from flying too much! I could have easily died if the clot dislodged! After that I had a Dr note that my legs had to be level with my heart for any flight over 3 hours. (which got me in J for every flight at 33 instead of just Senior Execs at 53!)

Would a US3 ever attempt to do this?


DVT is a real fear, but is the risk that much worse on this flight than the current ULH flights going now. We're at point were there are a couple dozen flights in the 16h30m - 18h00m range.

As far as the US3, I could see a world where UA attempts it from EWR, but I think a lot would have to happen, namely QF doing it successfully and them probably going with an A359lr sub-fleet.


Back to topic:
If Qantas uses a 789, why couldn’t UA use one of theirs? At my last company we were forbidden by corporate travel to book business on that SQ A340-500 because of price. We had to fly either UA via HKG or BA flying in the opposite direction due to corporate contacts. If that is true with other big corporations, if UA could do it nonstop for a lower fare than Qantas or SQ to SIN, what would UA need to do to use a 789 to fly nonstop EWR to SYD/SIN? A special subfleet configured 789 with very High J and PE, or would they require additional fuel tanks, (engines?)


The QF 789 on the JFK-SYD flight was a test flight with like 50 pax + crew total, obviously not economical for normal operations no matter how premium the configuration. Actual commercial PS flights (if done at all) will be done on A35Ks or 777Xs, and any copycats for ULR routes from other airlines (UA/BA/VS et al) will 99% use one of the above two aircraft.

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