Delta Adding 2 More A330-900 NEOS

jumbojet · Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:58 pm

I didnt see this posted yet. If so, please delete or merge. this just came across the Delta Newsroom.

Article mentions that these 330-900 NEO's are for both replacement of older aircraft and for measured growth.

Delta has reached an agreement with Air Lease Corporation (ALC) to lease two new Airbus A330-900neo aircraft set for delivery in the fourth quarter of 2020 and first quarter of 2021. These aircraft will be powered by Rolls-Royce Trent 7000 engines.
"These two incremental aircraft represent an opportunistic play to fulfill our near-term widebody aircraft needs for our customers and employees as older generation aircraft are retired and to support measured growth in 2021,"

With the accelerated 330-900 NEOs deliveries scheduled for next year, 2020 will now see 7 new A330-900 NEO aircraft in the DL fleet.

https://news.delta.com/delta-adding-2-m ... neos-fleet

TropicalSky · Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:09 pm

Either they plan to retire more B767 than originally planned or it really is plans to open grow and offer a few new destinations

cessna2 · Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:10 pm

I have been saying this for the past month and no one believed me...

TropicalSky · Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:12 pm

Saying what exactly?

cessna2 wrote:
I have been saying this for the past month and no one believed me...

MIflyer12 · Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:14 pm

jumbojet wrote:
With the accelerated 330-900 NEOs deliveries scheduled for next year, 2020 will now see 7 new A330-900 NEO aircraft in the DL fleet.

With the two on-order A350s due in 2020, and 4 used from LATAM (if that transaction goes through), this is a lot of widebodies pretty quickly. It will be interesting to see what's retired and how much of the A330/350 is incremental.

jbs2886 · Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:16 pm

TropicalSky wrote:
Saying what exactly?

cessna2 wrote:
I have been saying this for the past month and no one believed me...

He’s been saying 2 additional plus accelerated delivery.

TropicalSky · Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:19 pm

Glad to see someone prediction comes to reality on this board

jbs2886 wrote:
TropicalSky wrote:
Saying what exactly?

cessna2 wrote:
I have been saying this for the past month and no one believed me...

He’s been saying 2 additional plus accelerated delivery.

gatibosgru · Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:32 pm

Wonder why leased? Just for faster delivery?

Prost · Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:38 pm

I’m curious if ALC was having difficulty placing these two frames? Most of the other A330-900 operators are much smaller carriers and adding even one frame might be a tad too much for them.

TropicalSky · Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:39 pm

Quickest way to get the planes....most likely the lease company didn't want to give up their slots

gatibosgru wrote:
Wonder why leased? Just for faster delivery?

TropicalSky · Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:40 pm

Going of this assumption,I would think DAL probably got some good rates and options to purchase at end of term

Prost wrote:
I’m curious if ALC was having difficulty placing these two frames? Most of the other A330-900 operators are much smaller carriers and adding even one frame might be a tad too much for them.

jrkmsp · Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:44 pm

gatibosgru wrote:
Wonder why leased? Just for faster delivery?

My understanding is the lessor really needed to place the frames and offered a very good price.

jbs2886 · Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:56 pm

jrkmsp wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
Wonder why leased? Just for faster delivery?

My understanding is the lessor really needed to place the frames and offered a very good price.

I wonder how many more unplaced A339s there are coming up.

ScottB · Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:59 pm

jrkmsp wrote:
My understanding is the lessor really needed to place the frames and offered a very good price.

I was thinking this sounds like a mixed blessing for the A330neo program. It's good to see Delta taking two more, but they're from a lessor, on relatively short notice, and Delta isn't known for making bad deals for itself.

wjcandee · Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:21 pm

ScottB wrote:
jrkmsp wrote:
My understanding is the lessor really needed to place the frames and offered a very good price.

I was thinking this sounds like a mixed blessing for the A330neo program. It's good to see Delta taking two more, but they're from a lessor, on relatively short notice, and Delta isn't known for making bad deals for itself.

DL said it was an "opportunistic" deal, which supports your assumption and the idea that there was a good price offered. The lessor's overall cash flow is aided, they no longer have placement risk, and the bookkeeping on this particular aircraft purchase will now reflect an income stream (lease payments) starting at delivery rather than some period down the road. The lease payments will of course be lower than they might have hoped for, but the risk of default by the lessee is near-nil, another important factor in the lessor's own creditworthiness and ability to borrow at favorable rates.

FromCDGtoSYD · Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:41 pm

Still no idea of any potential routes after PVG/ICN/TYO-SEA ?

TropicalSky · Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:53 pm

They currently have daily SEA-DTW-SEA.....not sure if that's gonna continue

dennisho115 · Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:00 pm

TropicalSky wrote:
They currently have daily SEA-DTW-SEA.....not sure if that's gonna continue

That is expected to end Oct 25.

FB330 · Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:04 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
n
With the accelerated 330-900 NEOs deliveries scheduled for next year, 2020 will now see 7 new A330-900 NEO aircraft in the DL fleet.

With the two on-order A350s due in 2020, and 4 used from LATAM (if that transaction goes through), this is a lot of widebodies pretty quickly. It will be interesting to see what's retired and how much of the A330/350 is incremental.

I hadn't heard of the LATAM rumour....what exactly is this?

mjoelnir · Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:11 pm

If an airline accelerates deliveries, they need the frames.

Acceleration, 2 frames moved forward to 2020 and 1 frame forward to 2021.
Addition, 2 additional frames leased, 1 arriving in 2020 and 1 in 2021.

The opportunistic play, may refer to price, but combined with near term needs, I would count it an opportunistic play in regards to timing.

So now there are 31 A330-900 on order by Delta, plus 4 already delivered, with two additional leased through ALC. 37 frames in all.

WidebodyPTV · Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:11 pm

I doubt these aircraft will be used for expansion -- DL is too conservative, and investors wouldn't like that -- but rather to accelerate retirement of older aircraft. Legacy DL took delivery of ~70 widebodies over a 60 month period in the late 1990s/early 2000s, and while the modern airline has more immediate needs (narrowbodies), I doubt it wants to match that pace again.

Regarding the LATAM 350 purchase, I thought the DL network planners said that was a deal made by the financial guys (to close the deal with LATAM), and that they were still evaluating rather to take delivery of these aircraft into the DL fleet (vs. trying to sell them).

adamblang · Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:12 pm

FB330 wrote:
I hadn't heard of the LATAM rumour....what exactly is this?

This: viewtopic.php?t=1431927

TropicalSky · Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:12 pm

Read those and you will be updated sir

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1431927&hilit=Dal+%26amp%3B+latam
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/26/delta-i ... rline.html

FB330 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
n
With the accelerated 330-900 NEOs deliveries scheduled for next year, 2020 will now see 7 new A330-900 NEO aircraft in the DL fleet.

With the two on-order A350s due in 2020, and 4 used from LATAM (if that transaction goes through), this is a lot of widebodies pretty quickly. It will be interesting to see what's retired and how much of the A330/350 is incremental.

I hadn't heard of the LATAM rumour....what exactly is this?

FB330 · Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:23 pm

Thanks folks. How the hell did I miss that!

flight152 · Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:23 pm

Is it necessary to say A330-900 NEO? The -900 implies it’s a NEO.

jumbojet · Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:30 pm

flight152 wrote:
Is it necessary to say A330-900 NEO? The -900 implies it’s a NEO.

Delta refers to it in this manner. I would suppose since they are the ones spending the tens of millions of dollars on them that its necessary and appropriate.

Midwestindy · Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:36 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
I doubt these aircraft will be used for expansion -- DL is too conservative, and investors wouldn't like that -- but rather to accelerate retirement of older aircraft. Legacy DL took delivery of ~70 widebodies over a 60 month period in the late 1990s/early 2000s, and while the modern airline has more immediate needs (narrowbodies), I doubt it wants to match that pace again.

Regarding the LATAM 350 purchase, I thought the DL network planners said that was a deal made by the financial guys (to close the deal with LATAM), and that they were still evaluating rather to take delivery of these aircraft into the DL fleet (vs. trying to sell them).

How is DL conservative? Look at what they have done in BOS & SEA, look what they just did with LATAM, e.t.c. How is any of that conservative?

b777900 · Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:36 pm

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
Still no idea of any potential routes after PVG/ICN/TYO-SEA ?

Could they add LAX -HNL-MNL? ON the 339.

jumbojet · Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:42 pm

b777900 wrote:
FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
Still no idea of any potential routes after PVG/ICN/TYO-SEA ?

Could they add LAX -HNL-MNL? ON the 339.

/
aren't they still waiting to get MSP-PVG approval? That would probably be a future 330-900 neo route.

WidebodyPTV · Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:53 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
How is DL conservative? Look at what they have done in BOS & SEA, look what they just did with LATAM, e.t.c. How is any of that conservative?

I meant that DL is conservative in growing capacity. I don't disagree that it's taking risks in building new hubs, whereas AA & UA take the lower-risk option of connecting its hubs to new markets, but ultimately, growth has been conservative.

jumbojet · Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:56 pm

reading the article again, DL plans on 'measured' growth in 2021. Interestingly enough, the new SEA-FIS should be up and running by then, I wonder if this will be SEA growth or maybe BOS growth? And when DL says growth, I take it they don't mean adding another flight to CDG or AMS.

TYWoolman · Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:59 pm

Maybe the aircraft will be used directly or indirectly to up-gauge Atlanta to South America (?)

TropicalSky · Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:02 pm

But what exactly can they add from SEA that doesn't already have competition? Unless they want to get back in HONG KONG using SEA as the jump of Point.....I don't see SINGAPORE happening so only dart board points are in Europe and filling out SEA with DFW,HOU and other top business points they aren't in already

jumbojet wrote:
reading the article again, DL plans on 'measured' growth in 2021. Interestingly enough, the new SEA-FIS should be up and running by then, I wonder if this will be SEA growth or maybe BOS growth? And when DL says growth, I take it they don't mean adding another flight to CDG or AMS.

MIflyer12 · Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:05 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
How is DL conservative? Look at what they have done in BOS & SEA, look what they just did with LATAM, e.t.c. How is any of that conservative?

I meant that DL is conservative in growing capacity. I don't disagree that it's taking risks in building new hubs, whereas AA & UA take the lower-risk option of connecting its hubs to new markets, but ultimately, growth has been conservative.

The press release mentioned both retirements and growth. It didn't say how much of either!

x1234 · Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:07 pm

I've said this all along. Tag flights are costly. If they have Philippine traveler loyalty they should can the ICN-MNL flight and launch SEA-MNL instead. MNL is only slightly south of HKG. The A330neo can definitely make it. Come on DL give PR some competition! Remember the Philippines speak American English due to previous colonization so there's lots of BPO outsourcing there including call centers. Both India & Singapore speak British English.

cessna2 · Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:11 pm

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
Still no idea of any potential routes after PVG/ICN/TYO-SEA ?

I’ve heard SEA-PEK will transfer in the 1st Quarter of 2020. However it has not been loaded yet. Also SEA-AMS gets 1 A339 in July 2020.

jbs2886 · Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:12 pm

TropicalSky wrote:
But what exactly can they add from SEA that doesn't already have competition? Unless they want to get back in HONG KONG using SEA as the jump of Point.....I don't see SINGAPORE happening so only dart board points are in Europe and filling out SEA with DFW,HOU and other top business points they aren't in already

Why does it matter if there is competition? I expect TPE to come online.

jumbojet wrote:
reading the article again, DL plans on 'measured' growth in 2021. Interestingly enough, the new SEA-FIS should be up and running by then, I wonder if this will be SEA growth or maybe BOS growth? And when DL says growth, I take it they don't mean adding another flight to CDG or AMS.

I interpret "measured growth" to mean no net increase in aircraft, but a net increase in seats/ASMs. Just a guess though. I also suspect 763ERs will get moved to JFK transcons.

NWADTWE16 · Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:35 pm

why in the world would DL get their hands on brand new A350's and sell them, that sounds crazy

catiii · Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:35 pm

I wonder if the lease agreement creatively allows them to avoid the tariffs in any way.

catiii · Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:37 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
Regarding the LATAM 350 purchase, I thought the DL network planners said that was a deal made by the financial guys (to close the deal with LATAM), and that they were still evaluating rather to take delivery of these aircraft into the DL fleet (vs. trying to sell them).

My read of that is that it may be tariff avoidance, specifically if LATAM takes delivery then flips them to DL right away. Whatever the cost of refitting the cabin and repainting the airplane, its less than the 10% they would pay on the tariff. Incremental growth and avoid the tariff.

MIflyer12 · Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:37 pm

x1234 wrote:
I've said this all along. Tag flights are costly. If they have Philippine traveler loyalty they should can the ICN-MNL flight and launch SEA-MNL instead. MNL is only slightly south of HKG. The A330neo can definitely make it. Come on DL give PR some competition! Remember the Philippines speak American English due to previous colonization so there's lots of BPO outsourcing there including call centers. Both India & Singapore speak British English.

AA doesn't operate LAX-MNL. AC doesn't operate YVR-MNL. UA doesn't even operate SFO-MNL (all on ITA Matrix 30 days from tomorrow). I'll bet against SEA-MNL on Delta.

SEU · Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:46 pm

Maybe for growth in South America?

seabosdca · Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:56 pm

I tend to think this isn't the last deal we'll see like this. Lessors ordered more A330neos than they've been able to place.

Delta's still got a large chunk of 763s without planned replacement orders (assuming, as I think everyone does, that the last tranche of A350s is a 77E replacement).

behramjee · Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:57 pm

So in total this increases DL's A339 commitment to 37 units...am I right?

jrkmsp · Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:30 pm

jumbojet wrote:
b777900 wrote:
FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
Still no idea of any potential routes after PVG/ICN/TYO-SEA ?

Could they add LAX -HNL-MNL? ON the 339.

/
aren't they still waiting to get MSP-PVG approval? That would probably be a future 330-900 neo route.

In theory. But by my reading of the DOT filings, the DOT is expecting a new filing if Delta really wants to fly the route. And, at this point, there are more than enough daily frequencies for Delta to get them. So, at this point, I would assume Delta has this flight on ice until the trade war is resolved at least, and possibly until it sees who is in the White House in 2021.

LDRA · Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:36 pm

It is the 245T MTOW variant they are leasing right? 251T is not ready yet

SteelChair · Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:40 pm

The 330 is quite amazing imho, perhaps the most "under-rated" airliner in the world. Here's hoping that the NEO catches on. I'd love to see "real" purchase prices vis a vis the 787.

StTim · Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:47 pm

Delta obviously happy with the performance

Jetport · Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:58 pm

Delta appears to be happy with the performance, even happier with the pricing. Everybody can’t get Delta’s pricing on A330 neos or Airbus will not make any money. Delta is now to the A330 neo what Emirates was to the A380, not a good omen.

Devilfish · Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:59 pm

b777900 wrote:
Could they add LAX -HNL-MNL? ON the 339.

They could...the question is if they would?

x1234 wrote:
I've said this all along. Tag flights are costly. If they have Philippine traveler loyalty they should can the ICN-MNL flight and launch SEA-MNL instead.

Would the route be sustainable minus the ICN stop?

x1234 wrote:
MNL is only slightly south of HKG. The A330neo can definitely make it. Come on DL give PR some competition!

SEA-MNL on the A339 in DL's configuration might be stretching it.....

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=SEA-MNL&MS=wls&DU=nm

PR doesn't do SEA though.

LDRA wrote:
It is the 245T MTOW variant they are leasing right? 251T is not ready yet

The first 251T A339 from St Nazaire just got delivered to Airbus. Is this frame for DL :?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-KHtkoN-w0

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