mbird139
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Re: WN Downgraded by Stifle based on aquisition speculation

Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:07 pm

Not a chance this happens. Sorry. I cant see biz travelers wanting to fly in group C on an all coach A321 JFK-LAX in place of Mint. It would be a win, win for AA and DL
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: WN Downgraded based on aquisition speculation

Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:13 am

CaptCoolHand wrote:
JoseSalazar wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:

There will be nothing hostile about the takeover. I predict 99.99999999 percent of jetBlue employees will be forever grateful to SWA and their far superior work rules and pay. Who cares of some people at the top have to deploy their golden parachutes. Bring on the take over.

Most of my B6 pilot friends really don’t want a southwest merger. Thanks but no thanks. Not that any B6 pilots would have a say in things.



Well. I’m in the 0.000000001%.
I’d also wager that cobalt is 99.9999999% wrong about JB employees As Scott said. SWA is hardly any savior and has plenty of its own shortcomings.


I’m in the 0.2%. But I still don’t want to work for SWA.
 
9w748capt
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Re: WN Downgraded by Stifle based on aquisition speculation

Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:28 am

Would WN consider ordering a large number of A220s? I imagine those would be available much faster than other NBs at this point. But that would require WN completely changing their business model.
 
questions
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Re: WN Downgraded based on aquisition speculation

Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:58 am

DDR wrote:
That said, AA buying AS would be a great move. They would just need to get past the AS board, which has always pushed back against a merger.

AA buying AS would be great FOR DELTA. In 5 years AA would be down to 100 flights a day in SEA and down to nothing but flights to DFW, ORD, PHX, PHL, and CLT within 10 years. AA has a proven track record of buying airlines and then totally demolishing the previous airlines routes and fleet.
See Air Cal, Reno Air, TWA.....


This.
 
questions
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Re: WN Downgraded based on aquisition speculation

Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:35 am

AWACSooner wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
Whatever happens, Herb wouldn’t approve. I have a bad feeling that his legacy will be trashed in a few years. It’s already kinda diminished.

Herb's WN is already gone. Too much inconsistency in service, no 20 minute turns, devaluation of Rapid Rewards, introduction of ancillary fees...take your pick.


Spot on. WN is in a tweener position at the moment. From its product/service offering to its network to its management capabilities.

In addition to what the above poster mentioned, Southwest has added a lot of operational complexity to its model and its management team has not kept up and is surprisingly unsophisticated and lacks experience and skills to handle much more. It’s corporate cost structure has grown recklessly and needs to be reined in and significantly more discipline applied. In investor presentations WN executives like to brag about their growth, the fact they did not declare BKK during the Great Recession and have never had a lay-off. WN survived the Great Recession due to relatively simpler operations than its competitors and significant fuel hedges. That is gone today. WN is particularly vulnerable in the next downturn given its inexperience managing its new complexity in turbulent economic times and making difficult decisions.

The organization lives in the cultural past. The LUV culture and the Southwest Way are internal and external PR BS. WN has a large core of complacent corporate staff and is known for being a good old boys club. WN hangs onto Herb’s storied legacy because it was so unique and frankly they have nothing else to talk about. But make no mistake, it does not exist today.
 
WN732
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Re: WN Downgraded based on aquisition speculation

Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:57 am

questions wrote:
DDR wrote:
That said, AA buying AS would be a great move. They would just need to get past the AS board, which has always pushed back against a merger.

AA buying AS would be great FOR DELTA. In 5 years AA would be down to 100 flights a day in SEA and down to nothing but flights to DFW, ORD, PHX, PHL, and CLT within 10 years. AA has a proven track record of buying airlines and then totally demolishing the previous airlines routes and fleet.
See Air Cal, Reno Air, TWA.....


This.


The US merger stopped that trend. CLT, PHX, and PHL are still hubs and were not slashed. The fleets are still in place. The hubs are in place. Even the employees were spared. It's been nearly 5 years since the merger and not much has changed.


This AA is much different than AA of 20 years ago.

I very much disagree with the notion that SEA would be slashed considerably. Why would you deplete a hub that is bursting at the seams just to give it all away; a freebie at best. It would also provide a secondary TPAC gateway that AA so desperately needs. Seattle is a key market with a lot to lose and a lot of disposable income/business travel up for grabs.

Now all of that intra Alaska stuff? That's definitely toast. AA would definitely piecemeal ANC to the barebones. I'd bet ANC - FAI /Ketchikan/Juneau/Seattle.

PDX? That's a different story. I'd foresee PDX getting the Thanos treatment where that hub turns to dust. That will definitely be a win for WN and DL.
Last edited by WN732 on Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
vulindlela744
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Re: WN Downgraded based on aquisition speculation

Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:09 am

Gregd75 wrote:
Would Southwest be interested in Hawaiian?

They are clearly looking to enter the Islands market and this would give them presence overnight.

Just a thought...

We are already operating in HawaiI and interisland and doing extremely well with it. We don’t need Hawaiian
 
questions
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Re: WN Downgraded based on aquisition speculation

Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:20 am

WN732 wrote:
questions wrote:
DDR wrote:
That said, AA buying AS would be a great move. They would just need to get past the AS board, which has always pushed back against a merger.

AA buying AS would be great FOR DELTA. In 5 years AA would be down to 100 flights a day in SEA and down to nothing but flights to DFW, ORD, PHX, PHL, and CLT within 10 years. AA has a proven track record of buying airlines and then totally demolishing the previous airlines routes and fleet.
See Air Cal, Reno Air, TWA.....


This.


The US merger stopped that trend. CLT, PHX, and PHL are still hubs and were not slashed. The fleets are still in place. The hubs are in place. Even the employees were spared. It's been nearly 5 years since the merger and not much has changed.


This AA is much different than AA of 20 years ago.


That’s right. In the five years since the merger “not much has changed.” Doug Parker has been absolutely inept at creating a stronger, world class airline. Hubs, fleet and employees may still be in place but he has significantly de-valued AA’s brand equity and squandered all opportunities to create value from the merged entities. The trend continues, the specifics differ but the outcome is the same.
 
WN732
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Re: WN Downgraded based on aquisition speculation

Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:28 am

questions wrote:
WN732 wrote:
questions wrote:

This.


The US merger stopped that trend. CLT, PHX, and PHL are still hubs and were not slashed. The fleets are still in place. The hubs are in place. Even the employees were spared. It's been nearly 5 years since the merger and not much has changed.


This AA is much different than AA of 20 years ago.


That’s right. In the five years since the merger “not much has changed.” Doug Parker has been absolutely inept at creating a stronger, world class airline. Hubs, fleet and employees may still be in place but he has significantly de-valued AA’s brand equity and squandered all opportunities to create value from the merged entities. The trend continues, the specifics differ but the outcome is the same.


I definitely agree with you there. Dougie has turned a decent AA into crappy US. If Alaska and AA merged I would pray that the AS management make a majority of the BoD.
 
Rbgso
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Re: WN Downgraded by Stifle based on aquisition speculation

Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:07 pm

Never heard of Stifel until this thread.......

This is a screwy idea with very little logical analysis...
 
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DL747400
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Re: WN Downgraded by Stifle based on aquisition speculation

Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:29 pm

B6 would do well to remain B6 and send WN packing. Admirably, B6 has a great company culture. WN culture is, well, rather cult-like according to several friends who work there and keep their nonbeliever status under wraps.
From First to Worst: The history of Airliners.net.

All posts reflect my opinions, not those of my employer or any other company.
 
Gregd75
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Re: WN Downgraded based on aquisition speculation

Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:39 pm

vulindlela744 wrote:
Gregd75 wrote:
Would Southwest be interested in Hawaiian?

They are clearly looking to enter the Islands market and this would give them presence overnight.

Just a thought...

We are already operating in HawaiI and interisland and doing extremely well with it. We don’t need Hawaiian


Hawaiian makes more sense to buy than JetBlue or Alaskan.

They have planes, which would help solve the expansion problems

Buying Hawaiian would also speed up the success that you mention.

Would also give Southwest important International experience, something that they may find useful.
 
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madpropsyo
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Re: WN Downgraded by Stifle based on aquisition speculation

Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:27 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the WN pilot contract prohibit regional airline feed? So WN would buy AS and then what? Immediately have to shutter Horizon and pay Skywest a ton of cash to get out of their contract all while slashing ~30% of AS departures? What value would the AS network bring if the regional feed were gone, especially as they couldn't fill the void with mainline metal since the entire premise here is to gobble up an airline for the aircraft assets?

B6 would be a better target for those reasons, but the idea of buying an profitable airline just to shore up your aircraft assets is a stretch. There are MUCH cheaper ways of acquiring airframes.
 
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yowza
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Re: WN Downgraded by Stifle based on aquisition speculation

Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:08 pm

In the immediate term, sourcing 34 (+17+7) frames to cover the shortfall in lift is easily doable. The real question is how much faith does WN have that the Max will be in flying shape a) soon and b) reliably for the long term. If there are doubts particularly to point b, every day that they don't act to secure current generation lift is a problem. At their size they can easily support a mixed fleet.
 
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airportugal310
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Re: WN Downgraded based on aquisition speculation

Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:40 pm

vulindlela744 wrote:
Gregd75 wrote:
Would Southwest be interested in Hawaiian?

They are clearly looking to enter the Islands market and this would give them presence overnight.

Just a thought...

We are already operating in HawaiI and interisland and doing extremely well with it. We don’t need Hawaiian


Extremely well? By all accounts, their planes are half empty.
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
737max8
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Re: WN Downgraded based on aquisition speculation

Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:22 pm

airportugal310 wrote:
vulindlela744 wrote:
Gregd75 wrote:
Would Southwest be interested in Hawaiian?

They are clearly looking to enter the Islands market and this would give them presence overnight.

Just a thought...

We are already operating in HawaiI and interisland and doing extremely well with it. We don’t need Hawaiian


Extremely well? By all accounts, their planes are half empty.


What accounts? Because they are wrong.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
Flown on: 717 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 7M8 744 744ER 752 753 762 763 772 773ER 788 789 A319/20/21 A332 A333 A343 A359 A388
 
MIflyer12
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Re: WN Downgraded based on aquisition speculation

Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:02 pm

Gregd75 wrote:
Hawaiian makes more sense to buy than JetBlue or Alaskan.

They have planes, which would help solve the expansion problems


They have few planes - fewer than even Frontier or Allegiant. They also have a mixed fleet - made up entirely of three types not operated by WN.
 
RyanAirB737
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Re: WN Downgraded by Stifle based on aquisition speculation

Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:57 am

LightChop2Chop wrote:
Here is a novel idea WN. Red eyes. Get your pilots to agree to that and that will allow for some growth while you wait out the max issue.


As a frequent flier on WN (who gets nothing for it except free wifi and A34 instead of A35), I would love red eyes. For 10 weeks a year, I work two jobs... one in the Bay Area and one in LA, the one in LA lasting into the evening closer to LAX. I'd love to be able to fly out at 11pm or 12am back to the Bay Area. It's also useful for family emergencies. Other than that, there isn't much of a market on my routes. Too bad WN doesn't have smaller planes, and then it might make more sense.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: WN Downgraded by Stifle based on aquisition speculation

Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:35 am

DL747400 wrote:
B6 would do well to remain B6 and send WN packing. Admirably, B6 has a great company culture. WN culture is, well, rather cult-like according to several friends who work there and keep their nonbeliever status under wraps.

I TRIED to drink the kool aid but all i got was a belly ache. Im glad I left the cult that is Southwest but my fellow CSAs and Ops Agents are the number one thing I miss, second would be riding 4th. I now work for another US airline and one of the newbies went to orientation at HQ and said it was a kool aid drinking event, I told him he didn't know the definition of kool aid.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
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DL747400
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Re: WN Downgraded by Stifle based on aquisition speculation

Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:13 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
DL747400 wrote:
B6 would do well to remain B6 and send WN packing. Admirably, B6 has a great company culture. WN culture is, well, rather cult-like according to several friends who work there and keep their nonbeliever status under wraps.

I TRIED to drink the kool aid but all i got was a belly ache. Im glad I left the cult that is Southwest but my fellow CSAs and Ops Agents are the number one thing I miss, second would be riding 4th. I now work for another US airline and one of the newbies went to orientation at HQ and said it was a kool aid drinking event, I told him he didn't know the definition of kool aid.


:rotfl: Thanks for the chuckle! It must really be something else, the way "escapees" describe it.

One guy I knew from college went to work for WN after graduating. After 6-months, he had to get out, saying that he "just couldn't stomach it anymore."

I respect what B6 has done and would sure hate to see their culture has become. Then again, I am also one of those who have become increasingly convinced that B6 cannot survive on it's own as an independent carrier. Whether they can be an acquirer and retain both brand and culture post-merger is the question. Time will tell.

IMO, WN cannot buy or acquire their way out of their current predicament, but they can buy their way into a larger, more expensive mess.
From First to Worst: The history of Airliners.net.

All posts reflect my opinions, not those of my employer or any other company.
 
AirFiero
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Re: WN Downgraded by Stifle based on aquisition speculation

Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:02 pm

madpropsyo wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the WN pilot contract prohibit regional airline feed? So WN would buy AS and then what? Immediately have to shutter Horizon and pay Skywest a ton of cash to get out of their contract all while slashing ~30% of AS departures? What value would the AS network bring if the regional feed were gone, especially as they couldn't fill the void with mainline metal since the entire premise here is to gobble up an airline for the aircraft assets?

B6 would be a better target for those reasons, but the idea of buying an profitable airline just to shore up your aircraft assets is a stretch. There are MUCH cheaper ways of acquiring airframes.


Doesn’t B6 have a fair amount of smaller jets as well? They might not be in a subsidiary like AS, but what happens to those jets in a B6 acquisition?
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: WN Downgraded by Stifle based on aquisition speculation

Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:10 pm

AirFiero wrote:
madpropsyo wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the WN pilot contract prohibit regional airline feed? So WN would buy AS and then what? Immediately have to shutter Horizon and pay Skywest a ton of cash to get out of their contract all while slashing ~30% of AS departures? What value would the AS network bring if the regional feed were gone, especially as they couldn't fill the void with mainline metal since the entire premise here is to gobble up an airline for the aircraft assets?

B6 would be a better target for those reasons, but the idea of buying an profitable airline just to shore up your aircraft assets is a stretch. There are MUCH cheaper ways of acquiring airframes.


Doesn’t B6 have a fair amount of smaller jets as well? They might not be in a subsidiary like AS, but what happens to those jets in a B6 acquisition?

First, I don’t think a B6 acquisition will happen. But if it did, since B6’s E190s are all on the B6 certificate and the pilots are all B6 pilots (not outsourced), they’d be merged over just like the 320/321s. Obviously future merged fleet decisions would have to be made, and I’d guess the E190s would probably get parked fairly quickly.
 
marvinanderson1
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Re: WN Downgraded based on aquisition speculation

Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:18 pm

splitterz wrote:
A merger is the last thing consumers need in the US. This would be similar to FL/WN; eliminate a competitor.

I agree, if WN acquires your airline employer, immediately update your resume and look for a new employer ASAP.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: WN Downgraded based on aquisition speculation

Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:36 pm

marvinanderson1 wrote:
splitterz wrote:
A merger is the last thing consumers need in the US. This would be similar to FL/WN; eliminate a competitor.

I agree, if WN acquires your airline employer, immediately update your resume and look for a new employer ASAP.



umm WHY? they are the highest paid FAs in the nation and have the best set of workrules.
 
VetteDude
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Re: WN Downgraded by Stifle based on aquisition speculation

Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:54 pm

So many hypotheticals in this thread. People ripping on Southwest's supposedly poor culture yet their employee productivity is quite high (look at revenue per employee versus, say, AA). People saying their profitability track record is a fluke despite it being almost 50 years at this point while most of the "beloved" A.net airlines have been buried or reincarnated multiple times in that span. Sounds like a lot of bitter ex-employees in here honestly.
 
marvinanderson1
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Re: WN Downgraded by Stifle based on aquisition speculation

Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:48 pm

VetteDude wrote:
So many hypotheticals in this thread. People ripping on Southwest's supposedly poor culture yet their employee productivity is quite high (look at revenue per employee versus, say, AA). People saying their profitability track record is a fluke despite it being almost 50 years at this point while most of the "beloved" A.net airlines have been buried or reincarnated multiple times in that span. Sounds like a lot of bitter ex-employees in here honestly.
Yes explain that to all the employees released as a result of of their employer being acquired by WN. WN is notorious for acquiring another airline simply to eliminate competition, with no desire to enhance the viability of the acquired airline. I for one hope that NK never is merged into WN. Having said all that, I find NK to be a better airline compared to WN, as was FL.
 
AWACSooner
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Re: WN Downgraded by Stifle based on aquisition speculation

Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:16 pm

marvinanderson1 wrote:
I for one hope that NK never is merged into WN. Having said all that, I find NK to be a better airline compared to WN.

You lost all credibility with that one.
 
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BMWdrvr75
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Re: WN Downgraded based on aquisition speculation

Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:28 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
marvinanderson1 wrote:
splitterz wrote:
A merger is the last thing consumers need in the US. This would be similar to FL/WN; eliminate a competitor.

I agree, if WN acquires your airline employer, immediately update your resume and look for a new employer ASAP.



umm WHY? they are the highest paid FAs in the nation and have the best set of workrules.



Not anymore....Delta is now the highest paid. Plus we clean the planes......
We Make Flying Easy......Come fly the Silver Bird........Something Special in the Air......
 
WN732
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Re: WN Downgraded by Stifle based on aquisition speculation

Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:39 pm

Haters gonna hate.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: WN Downgraded based on aquisition speculation

Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:52 pm

BMWdrvr75 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
marvinanderson1 wrote:
I agree, if WN acquires your airline employer, immediately update your resume and look for a new employer ASAP.



umm WHY? they are the highest paid FAs in the nation and have the best set of workrules.



Not anymore....Delta is now the highest paid. Plus we clean the planes......


They also have a max scheduled domestic duty day multiple hours more than WN and zero union protection. And I'd like to see the numbers on top out pay, what I saw had WN still #1. WN tops out at a good 20 to 30 dollars more than the majority of majors in the U.S. They'd all love to be bought out by WN.
 
PHLspecial
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Re: WN Downgraded based on aquisition speculation

Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:57 pm

WN732 wrote:
The US merger stopped that trend. CLT, PHX, and PHL are still hubs and were not slashed. The fleets are still in place. The hubs are in place. Even the employees were spared. It's been nearly 5 years since the merger and not much has changed..


Looks at JFK
 
wnflyguy
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Re: WN Downgraded by Stifle based on aquisition speculation

Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:09 pm

marvinanderson1 wrote:
VetteDude wrote:
So many hypotheticals in this thread. People ripping on Southwest's supposedly poor culture yet their employee productivity is quite high (look at revenue per employee versus, say, AA). People saying their profitability track record is a fluke despite it being almost 50 years at this point while most of the "beloved" A.net airlines have been buried or reincarnated multiple times in that span. Sounds like a lot of bitter ex-employees in here honestly.
Yes explain that to all the employees released as a result of of their employer being acquired by WN. WN is notorious for acquiring another airline simply to eliminate competition, with no desire to enhance the viability of the acquired airline. I for one hope that NK never is merged into WN. Having said all that, I find NK to be a better airline compared to WN, as was FL.


Ok let's talk merger history at WN.
1. Muse Air.
Wasn't doing well and needed a life line.
WN still having a good relationship with Lamar made an agreement to let WN take over Muse Air.
WN decided to try Run an Airline within and Airline then chose to Rebrand it as Tran Star. The MD80 costs were double of the 737 at the time which made it unprofitable. WN saw more value in closing it up and just grow WN.
WN offered most employees jobs at other WN locations pending an interview.

2. Morris Air.
June Morris developed major health issues and felt it was better for her Family and trustees to find a buyer for for her airline.
She approached Herb and they worked out a deal.
All Morris employees that weren't 3ed party contracted out work force were offered interviews for employment at WN.
With Morris WN kept the stations that could handle a minimum of 8 daily round trips.

Both Mergers up to now were brought to WN.
So pre the TWA/AA fiasco stapling.
WN had the ability to interview and offer those that fit the WN style and integrity for employment.

3. WHICH wasn't neither a merger or acquisitions.
ATA.
ATA went from doing what they did best as a Fun in the sun Airline. The new management team tried to make them a Business class chasing airline with an a robust military charter network.
ATA cost climbed out of control and stock plunged.
AirTran needed another Hub outside ATL and MCO to bring in new revenue.
WN needed to protect it's investment at MDW. Saw the opportunity to possibly buy ATA. But once it's saw it's numbers Herb and GK his CFO at the time saw a loan,Codeshare and MDW gates purchase was more sound than an buy out.
This helped Block AirTran from Buying ATA and Grow the MDW investment.

Yes ATA eventually failed Once it lost it's Military Charter contracts.
ATA BOD saw more value in a liquidation and closed up shop. As a result WN did buy some gates and slot assets from the liquidation sale.

5. Frontier
Failed acquisition/Merger but gave them a legal right to see just how financial they really were before doubling Down on it's own DEN growth.

5. AirTran
AirTran was between a rock and a hard place. Its growth was staggering with it's unsuccessful bid for ATA and Midwest Express. Both WN and AirTran we're becoming a thorn in each other's side. During this round of mega merger situation WN saw an opportunity to make a play for AirTran.
This gave WN much needed Eastern Mississippi growth and spring boarded them into international flights.
Employees thanks to TWA/AA fiasco we're negotiated per department employment opportunity's within WN. Those that could not relocate or decided not to take employment got a severance packages.

Now WN and every other airline PUMPS it's Koolaid into everything and everyone. WN was just the smart ones to spin it's Koolaid in it's public PR brand yrs ago.

Now JetBlue.
JetBlue brings in 3 times more market value than AirTran did. This type of merger would spring board it's market cap in a very lucrative business areas of BOS and NYC LGA/JFK.
Bonus is adding more international,MCO and FLL.
LGB Slots would probably be used to add a few more western California strong opportunities. I also think WN would use additional B6 LGB slots to make its SoCal LA/OC Rapid Rewards Hawaii hub.

As for the E190 they're gone.
A220-300 is the wild card.
Regardless of the MAX issues I see WN staying committed long term to the 737MAX7 vs A220.

My 2cents
Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
marvinanderson1
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Re: WN Downgraded by Stifle based on aquisition speculation

Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:21 pm

AWACSooner wrote:
marvinanderson1 wrote:
I for one hope that NK never is merged into WN. Having said all that, I find NK to be a better airline compared to WN.

You lost all credibility with that one.
Its not about credibility, that is all selective, its about what one have experieced. I heard all the adulation for years about WN superiority above other airlines, until i actually begin to fly other airlines. I begin to notice that airlines like Spirit were much maligned until i flew on them to Orlando from ORD three years ago, and discovered the flight experience, on-time performance, service amenities , comfort of aircraft, was nothing like the rumored defiecencies of NK i had heard .I have also flown WN lately and was content, i still prefer NK over WN. Lastly, one could argue that lately Spirit is trending upward in more barometers and metrics than WN.
 
PhilMcCrackin
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Re: WN Downgraded based on aquisition speculation

Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:54 pm

Gregd75 wrote:
vulindlela744 wrote:
Gregd75 wrote:
Would Southwest be interested in Hawaiian?

They are clearly looking to enter the Islands market and this would give them presence overnight.

Just a thought...

We are already operating in HawaiI and interisland and doing extremely well with it. We don’t need Hawaiian


Hawaiian makes more sense to buy than JetBlue or Alaskan.

They have planes, which would help solve the expansion problems

Buying Hawaiian would also speed up the success that you mention.

Would also give Southwest important International experience, something that they may find useful.


Hawaiian makes zero sense.

Look at what Southwest does and then look at what Hawaiian does - two completely different business models.

The fact that they both operate in Hawaii now means nothing in the context of a hypothetical consolidation.
 
2175301
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Re: WN Downgraded by Stifle based on aquisition speculation

Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:00 pm

RyanAirB737 wrote:
As a frequent flier on WN (who gets nothing for it except free wifi and A34 instead of A35), I would love red eyes. For 10 weeks a year, I work two jobs... one in the Bay Area and one in LA, the one in LA lasting into the evening closer to LAX. I'd love to be able to fly out at 11pm or 12am back to the Bay Area. It's also useful for family emergencies. Other than that, there isn't much of a market on my routes. Too bad WN doesn't have smaller planes, and then it might make more sense.



Agreed... and my wife and I were A36 and A37 this week outbound and A42 and A43 back... Although between Milwaukee and Denver...

Have a great day,
 
2175301
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Re: WN Downgraded by Stifle based on aquisition speculation

Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:02 pm

I don't see any practical merger between WN and anyone else at this time.

Have a great day,
 
737MAX7
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Re: WN Downgraded by Stifle based on aquisition speculation

Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:12 pm

I see the WN hate is still alive and well on here, all is good in the world.
 
questions
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Re: WN Downgraded by Stifle based on aquisition speculation

Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:17 pm

RyanAirB737 wrote:
LightChop2Chop wrote:
Here is a novel idea WN. Red eyes. Get your pilots to agree to that and that will allow for some growth while you wait out the max issue.


As a frequent flier on WN (who gets nothing for it except free wifi and A34 instead of A35), I would love red eyes. For 10 weeks a year, I work two jobs... one in the Bay Area and one in LA, the one in LA lasting into the evening closer to LAX. I'd love to be able to fly out at 11pm or 12am back to the Bay Area. It's also useful for family emergencies. Other than that, there isn't much of a market on my routes. Too bad WN doesn't have smaller planes, and then it might make more sense.


Red eyes are west to east travel, departing in the evening and arriving early in the morning. US west coast to US east coast. US TATL to England and Europe.
 
jumbojet
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Re: WN Downgraded based on aquisition speculation

Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:45 am

BMWdrvr75 wrote:
Southwest cannot handle another merger they couldn’t even handle a B717 everyone just stop...Southwest is way too arrogant and way too close minded to handle anything else in the industry.


This analysist disagrees.

Joseph Dinardi, Stifel analyst and managing director, thinks that, as an unintended consequence of the MAX grounding, can see JetBlue being Acquired by South West.

Its a video so you'll have to watch it but in sum and substance, it says that SW is losing a lot of market share due to the MAX grounding and will continue to do so if MAX production is scaled back as the MAX comes back on line. Delta, reaping the benefits of the MAX grounding, has said they have no intention of giving up the market share they have gained. The SW and the B6 network don't overlap very much with the exception of FLL.

Video here:

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2019/10/21/s ... tblue.html

Personally, I think this would be a great move by SW. I would like to see this happen. I think Gary Kelly would do a great job at the helm of a combined SW/B6 with the name South West being retained.
Last edited by jumbojet on Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
jplatts
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Re: WN Downgraded based on aquisition speculation

Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:01 pm

jumbojet wrote:
The SW and the B6 network don't overlap very much with the exception of FLL.


There are some overlapping routes on WN and B6 out of airports other than FLL, including the following:
  • Boston: AUS-BOS, BWI-BOS, CHI-BOS (WN MDW-BOS, B6 ORD-BOS), DFW/DAL-BOS (WN DAL-BOS, B6 DFW-BOS), DEN-BOS, IAH/HOU-BOS (WN HOU-BOS, B6 IAH-BOS), BNA-BOS
  • New York City: ATL-NYC (WN ATL-LGA, B6 ATL-JFK), CHI-NYC (WN MDW-LGA, WN MDW-EWR (being dropped with WN pulling out of EWR), B6 ORD-JFK), DEN-NYC (WN DEN-LGA, WN DEN-EWR (being dropped with WN pulling out of EWR, B6 DEN-JFK), MSY-NYC (WN MSY-LGA, B6 MSY-JFK), TPA-NYC (WN TPA-LGA, WN TPA-ISP, B6 TPA-JFK, B6 JFK-EWR)
  • Long Beach: LGB-LAS, LGB-OAK, LGB-SMF, LGB-SJC
  • Orlando: MCO-ATL, MCO-ALB, MCO-AUS, MCO-BUF, MCO-BDL, MCO-PVD, MCO-RIC, MCO-DCA

B6 also operates LGB-AUS, LGB-PDX, LGB-RNO, LGB-SLC, and LGB-SFO nonstop service that is in competition with WN LAX-AUS, LAX-PDX, LAX-RNO, LAX-SLC, and LAX-SFO nonstop service.
 
jumbojet
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Re: WN Downgraded based on aquisition speculation

Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:13 pm

jplatts wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
The SW and the B6 network don't overlap very much with the exception of FLL.


There are some overlapping routes on WN and B6 out of airports other than FLL, including the following:
  • Boston: AUS-BOS, BWI-BOS, CHI-BOS (WN MDW-BOS, B6 ORD-BOS), DFW/DAL-BOS (WN DAL-BOS, B6 DFW-BOS), DEN-BOS, IAH/HOU-BOS (WN HOU-BOS, B6 IAH-BOS), BNA-BOS
  • New York City: ATL-NYC (WN ATL-LGA, B6 ATL-JFK), CHI-NYC (WN MDW-LGA, WN MDW-EWR (being dropped with WN pulling out of EWR), B6 ORD-JFK), DEN-NYC (WN DEN-LGA, WN DEN-EWR (being dropped with WN pulling out of EWR, B6 DEN-JFK), MSY-NYC (WN MSY-LGA, B6 MSY-JFK), TPA-NYC (WN TPA-LGA, WN TPA-ISP, B6 TPA-JFK, B6 JFK-EWR)
  • Long Beach: LGB-LAS, LGB-OAK, LGB-SMF, LGB-SJC
  • Orlando: MCO-ATL, MCO-ALB, MCO-AUS, MCO-BUF, MCO-BDL, MCO-PVD, MCO-RIC, MCO-DCA

B6 also operates LGB-AUS, LGB-PDX, LGB-RNO, LGB-SLC, and LGB-SFO nonstop service that is in competition with WN LAX-AUS, LAX-PDX, LAX-RNO, LAX-SLC, and LAX-SFO nonstop service.


of course there's minor overlapping here and there. Nothing that wouldn't pass the sniff test with the regulators with the exception of FLL. They give up a few routes here and there and presto, you have an airline that gains significant market share overnight and can possibly put them on the fast track to further international expansion. I mean, between the SW and B6 domestic networks, it would be an unbeatable combination in the Americas. Between the two, that would definitely wake up the big US3
 
ptcflyer
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Re: WN Downgraded by Stifle based on aquisition speculation

Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:24 pm

Skate to where the puck is going.... not to where it is. The only acquisition that makes sense... if diversifying your fleet is important.... would be Spirit. It is easier to move up the service spectrum with an acquisition aka Spirt or possibly Frontier than to acquire an airline and downgrade the experience.... (Alaska or Jet Blue). Spirit just ordered another 100 A320 Neos.... and announced expansion in key SWA markets. (BWI, BNA, LAS, etc.). AirTran was every bit a competitive take out as it was an expansion into Atlanta. This would be a competitive takeout that would grow more problematic in the future. Sure, by the time that that any acquisition would be complete, this specific issue with Boeing 737 Max may be over... but this Max crisis is forcing a philosophical change that may have significant impacts for the foreseeable future. The bulk of that 100 fleet A320 Neo order could be painted in Canyon Blue!..... with the assets deployed in Blue in new market pairs.... and not in just overlapping SWA existing flights in Yellow.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: WN Downgraded based on aquisition speculation

Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:48 pm

jumbojet wrote:

Nothing that wouldn't pass the sniff test with the regulators with the exception of FLL.


With NK's FLL hub I think even FLL would pass the sniff test. Throw in AA @ MIA and the forthcoming DL megahub @ MIA thanks to the LATAM transaction :sarcastic: the South Florida overlap between B6 and WN wouldn't be much of a problem.
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: WN Downgraded by Stifle based on aquisition speculation

Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:56 pm

What a T I R E D subject.

Someone’s gamble of Wall Street is not going the way they wished and now in an attempt to recoup their reputations and their investment gambles,

they make up speculation stories stimulating amateur enthusiasts.

Yeah the bloom may be off the rose in the freeze, but the plant is not dead and ready to be dug up yet.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
jplatts
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Re: WN Downgraded by Stifle based on aquisition speculation

Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:26 pm

The lack of MDW-RIC nonstop service is one of the biggest holes in WN's network, but WN could add MDW-RIC nonstop service without acquiring another airline.

RIC can likely support nonstop service to MDW on WN since:
(a) RIC is one of the largest markets without nonstop service to MDW,
(b) RIC has higher PDEW's to Chicago than a few domestic destinations that already have nonstop service to both ORD and MDW, including ALB, BHM, and TUS,
(c) Of the U.S. airports served by WN without nonstop service to MDW, only HNL, OGG, MKE, and IAD have more demand for domestic air travel than RIC does,
(d) WN would be able to offer 1-stop connecting service to additional destinations such as ABQ, BUR, GRR, MSP, OKC, OMA, ONT, PDX, SMF, SLC, SFO, SJC, SEA, TUS from RIC if WN adds RIC-MDW nonstop service,
and (e) there is a significant amount of passengers connecting to destinations west of the Mississippi River from RIC.

I have also noticed that WN only offers one 1-stop connecting option to RIC from DAL on weekdays in its current flight schedule between 3/9/20 to 4/13/20, even with both DAL and RIC having multiple daily nonstops to ATL on WN. Having only one 1-stop connecting option to RIC from DAL on WN is a big hole, especially with (a) DAL being the home base for WN, (b) RIC being one of the top destinations traveled to from the DFW/DAL market without nonstop service out of DAL, and (c) most of the other WN destinations in the contiguous U.S. without nonstop service out of DAL have at least two 1-stop connecting options out of DAL.

WN adding MDW-RIC nonstop service would also give passengers at least 1 additional 1-stop connecting option in most of the markets that already have daily nonstop service to ATL on WN.
 
bob75013
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Re: WN Downgraded based on aquisition speculation

Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:10 pm

[quote="questions"
Southwest has added a lot of operational complexity to its model and its management team has not kept up and is surprisingly unsophisticated and lacks experience and skills to handle much more. It’s corporate cost structure has grown recklessly and needs to be reined in and significantly more discipline applied. .[/quote]


And yet, WN continues to be more profitable than it's competitiors - as measured by priofit margin and does it quarter after quarter and year after year -- negating your argument that the cost structure has grown "recklessly."
 
JAAlbert
Posts: 1970
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Re: WN Downgraded based on aquisition speculation

Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:50 am

DarthLobster wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
Whatever happens, Herb wouldn’t approve. I have a bad feeling that his legacy will be trashed in a few years. It’s already kinda diminished.


His legacy went out the window as soon as WN instituted the Animal Farm-style boarding zone system they currently employ.


I love the animal farm-style boarding zone system! It's the least stressful of any boarding system I've been forced to use (unless I'm flying first class on a legacy carrier). I don't know what the animal farm reference is about - I'd call it more elementary school boarding system. Everyone at the gate knows the rules and follows them. Passengers know exactly where they stand - literally. Everyone compares tickets - "I'm A 15", to which the reply is "Ah, but I am A-14, so I am in front of you" - and he gets in front of me. No crowding the front of the gate, no jostling, no (well very little) line cutting or jumping ahead. Everybody knows where they are supposed to be. I don't think any other US airline handles boarding so well.

As for acquiring another airline, I'm sure SWA can afford such a purchase, but essentially the SWA we know (and some of us love) today would cease to exist. And buying B6? All those 320-321s? Any increase in aircraft availability would be offset by the enormous cost of introducing the type to SWA and assimilating an airline with a very different model into SWA. Buy Alaska, they have lots of 737s!

I fear that if SWA buys another airline, it will become another traditional legacy carrier, and how does it compete with them offering a similar product? I have had good flights on AA, DL and UA and I often prefer them -- but sometimes and for some destinations, SWA (and its baggage policy) just can't be beat.

It would be fascinating to watch and observe if SWA actually did buy another airline, but I can't for the life of me, figure out how they'd pull it off.
 
questions
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Re: WN Downgraded based on aquisition speculation

Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:25 am

bob75013 wrote:
[quote="questions"
Southwest has added a lot of operational complexity to its model and its management team has not kept up and is surprisingly unsophisticated and lacks experience and skills to handle much more. It’s corporate cost structure has grown recklessly and needs to be reined in and significantly more discipline applied. .



And yet, WN continues to be more profitable than it's competitiors - as measured by priofit margin and does it quarter after quarter and year after year -- negating your argument that the cost structure has grown "recklessly."[/quote]

Nonsense. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
 
Prost
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Re: WN Downgraded by Stifle based on aquisition speculation

Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:34 am

This downgrade reminds me of dreaming about your spouse doing something that vexes you and you wake up angry with them.
 
questions
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Re: WN Downgraded based on aquisition speculation

Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:58 am

JAAlbert wrote:
1. I love the animal farm-style boarding zone system! It's the least stressful of any boarding system I've been forced to use (unless I'm flying first class on a legacy carrier).

2. As for acquiring another airline, I'm sure SWA can afford such a purchase, but essentially the SWA we know (and some of us love) today would cease to exist.

3. I fear that if SWA buys another airline, it will become another traditional legacy carrier, and how does it compete with them offering a similar product?



1. WN boarding still appears to be the least chaotic and fastest of US carriers. I still be non-US airlines that don’t allow all the carry-on nonsense have faster boarding times

2. and 3. WN is trying to be the “most loved” airline. I just don’t see that happening. The need to drive extreme simplicity from the customer’s perspective in everything they offer. They’ve gotten away from this trying to be too many things to too many target customers

The biggest test for Southwest will be in the next economic downturn. I doubt they have what it takes and will end up eating their words. Their corporate “culture” is total BS, just corporate PR, leaching off of Herb’s legacy. It’s an inbred, good old boys club, where mediocrity prevails and is rewarded. The place is crawling with consultants doing things the bloated corporate staff should be able to do. There are pockets of bright, capable folks but the vast core is complacent and lacking. Sure WN is profitable. But it doesn’t mean they are smart, sophisticated business people and it will continue.

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