seansasLCY
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Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:28 pm

https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/press-r ... al-network

ANZ will drop LHR from Oct 2020. Sad news. Also launching New York with 789
 
nine4nine
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:31 pm

Damn. I use this LAX-LHR run frequently. Great service, comfy, and killer price always.
717, 727-100, 727-200, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 742, 748, 752, 753, 762, 763, 772, 77W, 787-10, DC9, MD80/88/90, DC10, 319, 220-300, 320, 321, 321n, 332, 333, CS100, CRJ200, Q400, E175, E190, ERJ145, EMB120
 
maxkd
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:32 pm

The AKL route seems to be a direct response to QF's JFK-SYD route interest...
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:37 pm

Long questioned the need and viability of such 5th freedom service via LAX. Send customers via partners instead.

As press release states there are many means between AKL and LHR as the market has evolved over the years with only 7 percent choosing the NZ service.
LAX-LHR route largely became one for local LAX-LHR traffic, something NZ would be the odd man out in between strong local players.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
pabloeing
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:39 pm

¿Time for British Airways in NZ?
 
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janders
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:40 pm

I recall after seeing an NZ investor presentation a couple of years ago that focused entirely on the Pacific basin, I wondered what the future of service to London was. Well now we know.

NZ can easily enough codeshare with Star partners, AC, SQ, UA, etc to offer easy connections if needed.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
chonetsao
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:44 pm

From AKL-HKG-LHR-LAX-AKL to .... er...What are they going to do with in LHR slot? And which airline they are going to team up with to provide LHR service?
 
dmstorm22
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:44 pm

Assuming this happens, it would be the new 5th longest flight in the world, but only the 3rd longest from AKL (AKL-DXB and AKL-DOH) and obviously 2nd longest from EWR (SIN-EWR).

It always surprised me they picked Chicago over NYC as an expansion point, but glad to see that route is doing well.

Always nice to see the world get a little bit smaller when we get a new route like this.
 
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mercure1
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:45 pm

Interesting to see how the industry evolves with another 5th freedom route dead. First milk runs died, now increasingly 5th freedoms.

Can't say its shocking though. Clearly route must have been a poor financial performer in recent years.

And yes, NZ can always codeshare and provide through fares to London on partners.
mercure f-wtcc
 
MON
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:51 pm

The LHR slots are probably an underused valuable asset that has perhaps also hastened this decision?
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:58 pm

In todays world and airlines cooperation and competition, I was surprised sometimes ago to see they still served the route themselves. It's not as if they were still doing it as they were with BA some 40 years ago.
 
mrbonfire
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:00 pm

Assuming it will be EWR?

Announced a year ahead to help with consultation and pax to reconsider travel plans.

Will that mean they'll down gauge to 789?
 
dmstorm22
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:02 pm

mrbonfire wrote:
Assuming it will be EWR?

Announced a year ahead to help with consultation and pax to reconsider travel plans.

Will that mean they'll down gauge to 789?


Yes, the article mentioned it would be to EWR
 
jasoncrh
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:02 pm

The press release above clearly says it'll be Newark.



mrbonfire wrote:
Assuming it will be EWR?

Announced a year ahead to help with consultation and pax to reconsider travel plans.

Will that mean they'll down gauge to 789?
 
jbs2886
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:04 pm

mrbonfire wrote:
Assuming it will be EWR?

Announced a year ahead to help with consultation and pax to reconsider travel plans.

Will that mean they'll down gauge to 789?


Yes, EWR. The PR states: Air New Zealand will fly between Auckland and its alliance partner United Airlines' New York hub Newark Liberty International Airport three times weekly, year-round, using its latest configuration Boeing 787-9 aircraft.

What is downgauged? They currently don't fly to NYC.
 
mrbonfire
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:05 pm

[quote="jasoncrh"]The press release above clearly says it'll be Newark.

The 5th para isn't really clear. Any good press officer would put the key details in the stand first.
 
axio
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:07 pm

Wow - LAX/LHR was often touted as the highest yielding route on the network.
Having done AKL-LHR via LAX a couple of times though I can safely say it was a horrible way to travel as transit at LAX is annoying (thanks to immigration queues) compared to going via SIN or HKG.
Time for a new viewing deck at AKL!
 
mrbonfire
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:08 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
mrbonfire wrote:
Assuming it will be EWR?

Announced a year ahead to help with consultation and pax to reconsider travel plans.

Will that mean they'll down gauge to 789?


Yes, EWR. The PR states: Air New Zealand will fly between Auckland and its alliance partner United Airlines' New York hub Newark Liberty International Airport three times weekly, year-round, using its latest configuration Boeing 787-9 aircraft.

What is downgauged? They currently don't fly to NYC.


LHR/LAX is usually a 77W. Might they down gauge to 789 if bookings fall?
 
jasoncrh
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:09 pm

While I agree it would have been better if they had said Newark in the headline, this is what it says:

Air New Zealand will fly between Auckland and its alliance partner United Airlines' New York hub Newark Liberty International Airport three times weekly, year-round, using its latest configuration Boeing 787-9 aircraft.

I mean, it's right there.


mrbonfire wrote:
jasoncrh wrote:
The press release above clearly says it'll be Newark.

The 5th para isn't really clear. Any good press officer would put the key details in the stand first.
 
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Rifitto
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:11 pm

This is going to be the longest route flown by a T1000 engine powered aircraft ,
will be interesting to compare it's performance with the genx's one
 
Judge1310
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:18 pm

This further highlights the increasingly anachronistic raisons d'etre for 5th Freedoms (and some of the other 8)--as aviation technology rapidly advances, so-called 'milk runs', round-the-world pairings, etc are becoming obsolete. Of course, there will be some folks who'll pine for the experience of flying via intermediate/tech-stops for >30 hours just to get to some other point on the globe; but those days of yore are long gone to reside in the pages in the aviation history. :old:

Cheers to Air New Zealand!
 
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United787
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:24 pm

So EWR will join the "six continents club"!

Without getting into a stupid discussion on the geology, geography and geopolitical meaning of continents, it is safe to say that the general A-Net consensus of this made up A-Net designation is that New Zealand can be counted as part of Australia...
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:27 pm

British Airways should launch flights from London Heathrow to Aucklaǹd with a stop in possibly Singapore or Brunei to replace the Air New Zealand flights from London to Auckland via Los Angeles
Last edited by ArchGuy1 on Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
airbazar
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:27 pm

5th freedom or not I can't imagine NYC being a larger market than LHR, from AKL. Is it? So they are replacing a 5th freedom route with a questionably viable ULR one. Hummm...
 
jfk777
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:29 pm

Sad but understandable with the ME3 and Asian options available between Auckland and London Heathrow. Flying to Newark completes ANZ's North American route system to the US east coast with their recent expansion to Chicago. They started Houston a few years ago too.
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:31 pm

Wow, I'm surprised to see that go. A lot of people love Air New Zealand from LHR to LAX as they have by far the best service on that route.
 
Judge1310
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:33 pm

airbazar wrote:
5th freedom or not I can't imagine NYC being a larger market than LHR, from AKL. Is it? So they are replacing a 5th freedom route with a suspiciously viable ULR one. Hummm...


Why the confusion/suspicion? The press release explicitly stated the reasons why and provided the numbers to back their plans: the LHR-NZ market is served by plenty of connecting carriers (read: potentially/allegedly subsidised foreign carriers, et. al). Honestly, whether a traveller is transiting to LHR via EWR or LAX is rather irrelevant, save for the fact that the LHR sector won't be on NZ metal. But, with the Star Alliance, travellers will have plenty of options to connect to, not only LHR, but many other points in the UK, Ireland, and continental Europe.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:39 pm

I didn’t think NZ could reach Newark nonstop on a B789. I would expect a premium heavy subfleet for AKL-EWR.
 
codc10
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:43 pm

airbazar wrote:
5th freedom or not I can't imagine NYC being a larger market than LHR, from AKL. Is it? So they are replacing a 5th freedom route with a questionably viable ULR one. Hummm...


A larger, but extraordinarily fragmented, market. Orders of magnitude more competition (all three alliances, plus EK/QR, with good connections), and no chance to serve nonstop.

Better to add routes in which NZ might be able to extract a nonstop premium and leverage a JV partner’s feed.

It’s sad to see historical routes go, however.
 
OmerMaz
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:50 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I didn’t think NZ could reach Newark nonstop on a B789. I would expect a premium heavy subfleet for AKL-EWR.


From the article:
Air New Zealand will operate its 787-9 'Code 2' aircraft to New York. This aircraft has a 275-seat configuration with a higher proportion of Business Premier and Premium Economy seating


Yes indeed, compared to other 789s configured at 302 seats, the configuration of the code is as follows (according to wikipedia) :
27B33P39S176E
Unlike the "code 1" aircraft which feature 221 seats in Economy.

What happened to AKL-HKG-LHR?
 
kaitak
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:53 pm

Yes, very sad to see a route of over 35 yrs going. NZ started flying to LGW with 742s in around '81/82, then with the -400 and then, moved to LHR when they got the slots. And of course, their DC10s were seen when they had a partnership with BA in the late '70s, using DC10s.
 
IADCA
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:56 pm

OmerMaz wrote:

What happened to AKL-HKG-LHR?


It ended a few years back- 2012 or 2013ish.
 
OmerMaz
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:01 pm

It ended a few years back- 2012 or 2013ish.


Didn't notice that, unfortuenatley...
Never been in LHR to see them, but it's truely an iconic route...But airlines have to do what it takes to survive.
Espcially if they want to launch some ground breaking features in Economy.

Another question is, isn't axing a route a year ahead from now is a little too much?
 
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PigScroll
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:06 pm

Disappointing to see an iconic route go, although it is an understandable decision from ANZ.

It'll be interesting to see who the LHR slots go to, and for how much...
 
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zkojq
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:08 pm

When you consider that all Air New Zealand's competitors on LAX-LHR-LAX have anti trust immunity JVs, it's probably not so surprising that the smallest fish gets squeezed out of the pond.

It's a shame that the route is closing. On the other hand, considering that in recent times I've consistently chosen to fly to LH metal for the other half of the journey to/from Europe and always via Asia, I guess I'm part of the problem.
First to fly the 787-9
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:10 pm

kaitak wrote:
Yes, very sad to see a route of over 35 yrs going. NZ started flying to LGW with 742s in around '81/82, then with the -400 and then, moved to LHR when they got the slots. And of course, their DC10s were seen when they had a partnership with BA in the late '70s, using DC10s.


I can remember a NZ 744 on AKL-SYD-LAX-LHR in the mid-90s. That really struck me as a tortured routing just to stay on NZ metal.
 
smi0006
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:15 pm

Very sad day for the team at LHR, and Cabin crew base. Hope they all find jobs soon, but not an easy time...

With JVs with CX and SQ this does make sense, I’d imagine the niche NZ carved out between LHR and LAX just shrank too small in the end. Hopefully NYC can make them more money- but touch call. Be curious to see where the 77W capacity ends up to release the 789
 
TSA125
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:24 pm

mrbonfire wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
mrbonfire wrote:
Assuming it will be EWR?

Announced a year ahead to help with consultation and pax to reconsider travel plans.

Will that mean they'll down gauge to 789?


Yes, EWR. The PR states: Air New Zealand will fly between Auckland and its alliance partner United Airlines' New York hub Newark Liberty International Airport three times weekly, year-round, using its latest configuration Boeing 787-9 aircraft.

What is downgauged? They currently don't fly to NYC.


LHR/LAX is usually a 77W. Might they down gauge to 789 if bookings fall?


Wouldn't call that a down gauge. This route is already stated to be a 787-9. They have plenty of utility for their 77W elsewhere. The LHR-LAX route on a 77W for them was overkill as it was. Not a surprising development whatsoever.
No not that TSA.
 
Gangurru
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:27 pm

I believe this also marks the end of the world's longest flight between two points, including stopover? (11960 mi/19246km)

The LON route uses quite a lot aircraft hours and frames. I wonder where the 77Ws will be redeployed after the change?
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:28 pm

Unless something major has changed (Brexit perhaps?) I think this is a mistake. Excited for NY (and EWR would be a solid bet) but don’t think it should be at the expense of LHR.

3 main reasons to retain LHR:
1) It is (or certainly has been) one of NZs most profitable routes.
2) Provides a certain level of diversity regarding destinations (not putting all the eggs in the US basket).
3) Brand recognition/presence - LHR does have a certain level of prestige to it, it gives NZ that presence in the UK/EU, it does have that B-list celebrity use, and even as a fly the flag exercise does give New Zealand in general a boost in the UK.

With this decision, I’m pretty certain we can farewell any chance of 77X/A350 (unless they’re secretly planning LHR direct). LAX no longer would need 2x 77W daily sized planes as the LHR through pax won’t be on it and neither will NY pax so 2x daily 78J will do the job. I’d also bet money (provided no recession) that another US/Canada destination will be on the cards as a result (SEA/YYZ/DEN).
59 types. 42 countries. 24 airlines.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:40 pm

Any chance that NZ will give the LHR slot to UA to guarantee space at EWR? UA is said to be interested in LHR-LAX x2 or EWR x6. Both would be great additions with extra connections with EWR now to AUK or to fill the Star alliance gap at LAX.
 
seansasLCY
Topic Author
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:46 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
Unless something major has changed (Brexit perhaps?) I think this is a mistake. Excited for NY (and EWR would be a solid bet) but don’t think it should be at the expense of LHR.

3 main reasons to retain LHR:
1) It is (or certainly has been) one of NZs most profitable routes.
2) Provides a certain level of diversity regarding destinations (not putting all the eggs in the US basket).
3) Brand recognition/presence - LHR does have a certain level of prestige to it, it gives NZ that presence in the UK/EU, it does have that B-list celebrity use, and even as a fly the flag exercise does give New Zealand in general a boost in the UK.

With this decision, I’m pretty certain we can farewell any chance of 77X/A350 (unless they’re secretly planning LHR direct). LAX no longer would need 2x 77W daily sized planes as the LHR through pax won’t be on it and neither will NY pax so 2x daily 78J will do the job. I’d also bet money (provided no recession) that another US/Canada destination will be on the cards as a result (SEA/YYZ/DEN).


If it was the most profitable route it wouldn’t be dropped. As Air NZ say, there are plenty of options for LHR-AKL and it doesn’t make sense for them to fly the route when there partners can and then connect in other cities.
 
910A
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:47 pm

axio wrote:
Wow - LAX/LHR was often touted as the highest yielding route on the network.
Having done AKL-LHR via LAX a couple of times though I can safely say it was a horrible way to travel as transit at LAX is annoying (thanks to immigration queues) compared to going via SIN or HKG.


When NZ moved to the Bradley Terminal at LAX from T2, NZ started to complain almost a once about the delays caused by the immigration process at LAX. Wouldn't surprise me at all if AF and TN move their PPT-LAX-CDG service to YVR in the near future. Standing in line for an hour and a half to two plus hours just to transit doesn't make any sense to me.
Last edited by 910A on Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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iseeyyc
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:47 pm

nine4nine wrote:
killer price always.


I think thats the "tell"?
 
Galwayman
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:57 pm

Withdrawing AKL > LAX > LHR makes perfect operational and strategic sense . Much more intelligent than Qantas unhealthy obsession with nonstops to the U.K. . Fares to NZ are actually cheaper than to Oz , lots of open competition delivering thousands of daily seats at affordable prices everyday . Well done AirNZ ..
 
Galwayman
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:59 pm

Hopefully ANZ will add GRU now and sell connections to Asia via NZ
 
lhrnue
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:00 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
3) Brand recognition/presence - LHR does have a certain level of prestige to it,


That will earn NZ not a single cent.
 
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OA940
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:02 pm

I'm surprised they can't make LHR work honestly. Truly sad. I wonder where the 77Ws will go.
A350/CSeries = bae
 
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afterburner33
Posts: 175
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:06 pm

Well I'm disappointed by this, as it removes another option for travelling home. And it's a shame to see that taste of NZ go from the UK.

But then again I haven't traveled on NZ1/2 in over 10 years. Primarily because:

- The transit via LAX is painful.
- There are better options available than a 10 abreast 77W.
- NZ has consistently been just a bit more expensive than some of the competition. It's been quite hard to justify them over (for example) a cheaper Singapore Airlines A380.

So maybe I shouldn't really be surprised.
 
Lufthansa
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:09 pm

United787 wrote:
So EWR will join the "six continents club"!

Without getting into a stupid discussion on the geology, geography and geopolitical meaning of continents, it is safe to say that the general A-Net consensus of this made up A-Net designation is that New Zealand can be counted as part of Australia...


How they're quitting London, and with that the European continent at the same time?

Also there could be some Advantages here for NZ pax heading to Europe in general. United from EWR can get the
into many more regional places out of there in Europe, single stop. Expect this route to go daily. Remember UA and
NZ have a JV so through tickets on UA shouldn't be an issue. It may be at the expense of ORD though, as QF starts
that from BNE.

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