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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:38 am

UA857 wrote:
Why is this route using EWR and not JFK?


With a username such as yours I would have thought it was rather obvious as to why NZ are going to EWR and not JFK!
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:46 am

LAXintl wrote:
Long questioned the need and viability of such 5th freedom service via LAX. Send customers via partners instead.

As press release states there are many means between AKL and LHR as the market has evolved over the years with only 7 percent choosing the NZ service.
LAX-LHR route largely became one for local LAX-LHR traffic, something NZ would be the odd man out in between strong local players.


Maybe that explains why I kept getting ads for the NZ LAX-LHR service on Facebook even though I live in Texas and would be much more likely to fly IAH-LHR or even AUS-LHR. They must have been desperate to fill seat on their LAX-LHR flight.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:55 am

Zkpilot wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
smi0006 wrote:

Does AKL-LAX need any more capacity? Not clear are you suggesting 17 weekly 77W? That seems excessive with IAH,ORD and then EWR.

My bet is more changes to come, this was just an early announcement due to layoffs. I wouldn’t be surprised depending on the future of protests does HKG get axed or downguaged to a 789 3-4 weekly and SIN gets a 77W with connections moved over SIN with SQ? And Star? Where is this EWR 789 coming from?

Are SFO, and IAH daily? I don’t think so, and wonder if the 77W is too big for them daily? Perhaps a 772 or 789 would be better fit purpose daily? I believe PER gets good loads aBe could get an up gauge?


I know the IAH flight substitutes a 77E on days with lower demand. Just a week ago Monday I saw an NZ 77E from the parking garage between C and D taxiing for takeoff. If I were making a connection in the US to LHR, I would rather do it at IAH than LAX. There is also an opportunity to connect to the SQ IAH-MAN flight.

Lower demand yes, but not largely so, more a shortage of 77W and availability of 77E. With this change I would expect LAX, SFO, IAH all to go almost exclusively 77W.


That makes sense. I looked at the AKL-LAX traffic on Flight Aware. They had 2 77W's flying AKL-LAX about an hour apart. Looks like that way they would have a spare to cover the LHR flight in case one has a technical problem. That's an expensive asset to have sitting around at LAX.
 
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:07 am

Motorhussy wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Motorhussy wrote:

NZ will not gift their LHR slots to anyone, they’re worth a lot of £££ and I’m sure will be sold (provided that they’re not having to be forfeited). It may come to a deal with UA for them.

This news has come as a surprise to this NZ watcher. Everyone expected the NYC announcement as this has been an aspiration on the cards for years but I did not expect the supposedly lucrative LAX-LHR route to be dropped.

Someone showed surprise that Chicago was launched before NYC. The airline will not have a ULR route appropriate aircraft until the GE powered premium-heavy 789 sub-fleet arrives. The 781’s will be GE powered too and were part of the same order.

Looking at the overall NZ longhaul fleet, I no longer see a need for any other aircraft than the 787 now. If the 781 gets the touted range bump, it can replace the 77W on remaining Nth American routes plus key Asian ones including ones currently using the 77E. The GE 789 will no doubt replace the RR ones on ORD. And some other 77E routes can have their frequency upped with the 789.

Well played NZ and a brave move from the new CEO. A shame though that we won’t seethe A351 with the Koru on the tail.

MH



What 787-9 GE powered, as of today all their 787-9 are Rolls powered, the 787-10 are the GE powered planes. Would not expect any 787-9 with GE engines soon unless they switch the -10 to -9.


Ah yes, you are quite right, mea culpa. My understanding was the 14 RR 787-9’s were to be augmented by GE powered 787-9’s for the NYC route (as part of the 787-10 order which can be changed or added to in terms of models) and with a third variety of seating. I was wrong, they will use their existing code-2 RR powered 789’s - no doubt with some seats blocked off.


Considering that EWR-AKL is about 150nm shorter than PER-LHR I would expect a significant amount of seats to be blocked particularly when the winds are at their strongest. During NW18/19 PER-LHR at times had up 30-40 seats blocked which equates to some days with only 200-210 passengers on board so with NZ's higher seat configuration they are likely to need to block even more. So I do wonder how they are going to make money out of this only operating the route 3 weekly with an aircraft which is probably needing more premium seats. The other things to consider are firstly there is likely no cargo on EWR-AKL, AKL-EWR on the other hand is a different story and they will need to depart EWR with a full load of fuel, PER-LHR goes out close to MTOW so I would expect this flight would be the same
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gregn21
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:12 am

Does UA go double daily on LAX-LHR now?
 
yyzmdw
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:25 am

Hearing that people hate connecting in LAX generally, maybe ANZ will take this opportunity to adjust the timing of AKL-YVR to facilitate better connections with AC YVR - LHR?
 
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zkojq
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:55 am

Zkpilot wrote:
Unless something major has changed (Brexit perhaps?) I think this is a mistake. Excited for NY (and EWR would be a solid bet) but don’t think it should be at the expense of LHR.

3 main reasons to retain LHR:
1) It is (or certainly has been) one of NZs most profitable routes.
2) Provides a certain level of diversity regarding destinations (not putting all the eggs in the US basket).
3) Brand recognition/presence - LHR does have a certain level of prestige to it, it gives NZ that presence in the UK/EU, it does have that B-list celebrity use, and even as a fly the flag exercise does give New Zealand in general a boost in the UK.

Agreed. Regarding point two, I think the large US exposure is becoming quite risky. Especially with the US coming closer to recession (despite what the administration would tell you). OTOH it's not like Britain is going to have a very healthy economy in the years following Brexit..

Zkpilot wrote:
With this decision, I’m pretty certain we can farewell any chance of 77X/A350 (unless they’re secretly planning LHR direct). LAX no longer would need 2x 77W daily sized planes as the LHR through pax won’t be on it and neither will NY pax so 2x daily 78J will do the job.

I guess all this makes it clearer why they didn't order A350/777-8/9s earlier in the year. Still, what a shame.


Lufthansa wrote:
As for the 77W's... the obvious thing to do with the freed up ones is up gagde SIN. However I also wouldn't be surprised to see them dump the 777 entirely with the 787-10 coming.

HKG is probably a route better suited to the 77W, considering that the 787-10s have the range for Singapore. IAH is another good place to send the 77Ws permenantly - if nothing else, they'll be able to uplift a meaningful cargo load on that route. :lol:


Lufthansa wrote:
If they do this, they're going to need to try and come to some arrangement with UA though to use their terminal at EWR to make Transatlantic connections there easy, plus be able to get premium pax into the Polaris lounge. This opens up places like EDI and TXL one stop and connects to places SQ doesn't fly in Europe.

I can't see any codeshare pax wanting to one stop through EWR with United and having to clear US immigration/customs when they could instead two stop through FRA/MUC and SIN/HKG with a LH/SQ/CX.

Motorhussy wrote:
The airline will not have a ULR route appropriate aircraft until the GE powered premium-heavy 789 sub-fleet arrives. The 781’s will be GE powered too and were part of the same order.

Looking at the overall NZ longhaul fleet, I no longer see a need for any other aircraft than the 787 now. If the 781 gets the touted range bump, it can replace the 77W on remaining Nth American routes plus key Asian ones including ones currently using the 77E. The GE 789 will no doubt replace the RR ones on ORD. And some other 77E routes can have their frequency upped with the 789.


There's no 787-9GEs on order. Now that ZK-NZR is delivered (it arrives into Auckland from Seattle tonight) there are on 787-9s on order. Whilst the airline talked a lot about ordering 787-9s with GE engines during the announcement in May, when the order was finalized last month it was only for 787-10s. Although they do have conversion rights to -9s it seems unlikely that they'd want a 787-9GE fleet of only a few aircraft.
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smi0006 wrote:
Whilst airport jobs make sense, a seperate crew group for a single port with the associated overheads is a significant cost when competing against other carriers across the atlantic.


The LHR crew base is saving them money. Otherwise they'd have to be putting up the NZ Based cabin crew in hotels for 8(?) days per round trip. IIRC as it stands the NZ based cabin crew do three room nights in LA whilst the LHR based crew do two room nights there.

smi0006 wrote:
It makes sense if that cost is spread AKL-LAX-LHR, but with only 7% of pax competing the whole journey it doesn’t make sense

You're implying that the airline wants more NZ originating pax to fly the full length of the trip. In reality, the airline has for years been encouraging NZ originating pax to fly to LHR via SIN or HKG. Their website will always direct NZ customers to these routings. You can still book via LA but they charge a hefty premium for that (since the seats would otherwise be occupied by higher yielding UK or US passengers). In economy, they usually they charge a ~NZD$300 premium in each direction to do the full trip on Air New Zealand metal via LA as compared to the codeshares with CX and SQ.

Before Air New Zealand had JVs with SQ and CX they'd similarly try to direct New Zealand originating passengers onto LH codeshares via SIN, HKG, PVG, NRT etc (sometimes even LAX, SFO or YVR) with an extra stop in FRA or MUC.

Before that they'd direct them to their own AKL-HKG-LHR service when they flew that route.


pbm wrote:
Where is the information coming from that this flight is high yielding? I find it surprising that Air NZ would quit a high yielding route.

Because the airline would charge a premium for passengers to be going on their own metal via LA, rather than with a codeshare partner. Not sure if it's still the case, but for a time LAX-LHR had by far the highest J load factors in the network.

codc10 wrote:
I highly doubt NZ was capturing outsize high-yield traffic on LAXLHR. AA/BA are the undisputed heavyweights in that market, and there’s competition from other carriers with much more to offer to LAX or LHR-based pax, especially business travelers and corporate contracts.


High yielding compared to regular New Zealand based passengers.
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pa747sp
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:09 am

axio wrote:
Wow - LAX/LHR was often touted as the highest yielding route on the network.
Having done AKL-LHR via LAX a couple of times though I can safely say it was a horrible way to travel as transit at LAX is annoying (thanks to immigration queues) compared to going via SIN or HKG.



It was one of the higher yielding (AKL NOU was the highest ) but AKL LHR was the lowest. I guess the comparative returns of LAX LHR vs AKL EWR means that its not worth flying to LAX to have an a/c to fly LAX LHR
Nothing seems as good since the VC10.
 
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:33 am

NZ516 wrote:
Gangurru wrote:
I believe this also marks the end of the world's longest flight between two points, including stopover? (11960 mi/19246km)

The LON route uses quite a lot aircraft hours and frames. I wonder where the 77Ws will be redeployed after the change?


Sad to see the route go wonder if they could try a non stop flight one day.

The 7 owned 77Ws will stay on doing what they currently do
AKL -SFO daily 2 aircraft
AKL -IAH daily 2 aircraft
AKL -LAX daily 2 aircraft
The one spare freed up 77W from the LHR route can do 3 extra AKL -LAX flights with one day spare for maintenance.


Won't cutting LAX/LHR give them two 77W aircraft to play with as they can't do this return flight in 24 hours?

LHR/LAX 1615/1940
LAX/LHR 1715/1145+1

Very sad to see NZ leave London - thoughts with the great team they have here.

Interesting to hear that they are keeping some sales staff on..apparently some two thirds of revenue generated from UK office was not based on UK departures.

https://www.headforpoints.com/2019/10/2 ... les-route/


Mark
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SKAirbus
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:49 am

If you want to keep your mental well-being in check, never attempt an international transfer/transit in the US. Even for NZ1/2 it is a nightmare - it used to be much more simple. I never understood why NZ kept the route via LAX and not via HKG - the latter is much easier to transit through as it only involves a simple security check.

NZ have a good cooperation with SQ so I am hoping they will look to this partnership more than UA because a) SQ has a far superior product to UA and b) SIN is a much nicer airport to transit through than any of the US gateways.

It's an end of an era for NZ, but also the end of a massive ball ache for passengers.
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LAX772LR
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:52 am

Be funny if B6 is the one who ends up buying the LHR slots :stirthepot:
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
strfyr51
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:34 am

[quote="mercure1"]Interesting to see how the industry evolves with another 5th freedom route dead. First milk runs died, now increasingly 5th freedoms.

Can't say its shocking though. Clearly route must ??have been a poor financial performer in recent years.
And yes, NZ can 't say when that might becodeshare and provide through fares to London on partners.


ANZ can interline on UA from LAX-LHR or even ORD LHR. That 15+ flight time is grueling enough and any Hiccup? Would be pretty hard to deal with. Since they're flying 787-9's on the route ? They have ready access to spares and service in both Chicago (ORD) and EWR(New York) so their Turnarounds could be pretty smooth.
They can still g to LHR direct if they need to at a later date. especially if HKG opens back up from their political troubles. Can say when that might be though, It's not looking too promising at the moment even for HKG to remain an international finance capital. China might be doing it IN for international Finance. but far be it for me to say what they're doing. They have anointed Singapore a far east Financial Capital by default with the mess going on in Hong Kong.
 
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:17 am

smi0006 wrote:
I thinks it’s rather telling that a single route cut will cost 130 jobs. Whilst very sad, that’s a huge number of jobs to go for a single route. Whilst airport jobs make sense, a seperate crew group for a single port with the associated overheads is a significant cost when competing against other carriers across the atlantic. It makes sense if that cost is spread AKL-LAX-LHR, but with only 7% of pax competing the whole journey it doesn’t make sense


What? 130jobs?

Can you help me with the math? It seems huge number for a 7 times per week route although on an 77W.

Thank you!
 
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:32 am

vahancrazy wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
I thinks it’s rather telling that a single route cut will cost 130 jobs. Whilst very sad, that’s a huge number of jobs to go for a single route. Whilst airport jobs make sense, a seperate crew group for a single port with the associated overheads is a significant cost when competing against other carriers across the atlantic. It makes sense if that cost is spread AKL-LAX-LHR, but with only 7% of pax competing the whole journey it doesn’t make sense


What? 130jobs?

Can you help me with the math? It seems huge number for a 7 times per week route although on an 77W.

Thank you!


They will close their LHR base.
come visit the south pacific
 
skipness1E
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:36 am

SKAirbus wrote:
If you want to keep your mental well-being in check, never attempt an international transfer/transit in the US. Even for NZ1/2 it is a nightmare - it used to be much more simple. I never understood why NZ kept the route via LAX and not via HKG - the latter is much easier to transit through as it only involves a simple security check.

NZ have a good cooperation with SQ so I am hoping they will look to this partnership more than UA because a) SQ has a far superior product to UA and b) SIN is a much nicer airport to transit through than any of the US gateways.

It's an end of an era for NZ, but also the end of a massive ball ache for passengers.

Yup, a fundamentally noncompetitive offering in market
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:39 am

vahancrazy wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
I thinks it’s rather telling that a single route cut will cost 130 jobs. Whilst very sad, that’s a huge number of jobs to go for a single route. Whilst airport jobs make sense, a seperate crew group for a single port with the associated overheads is a significant cost when competing against other carriers across the atlantic. It makes sense if that cost is spread AKL-LAX-LHR, but with only 7% of pax competing the whole journey it doesn’t make sense


What? 130jobs?

Can you help me with the math? It seems huge number for a 7 times per week route although on an 77W.

Thank you!

Well on any given day you have 5x 11 crew (one LHR-LAX, one in LAX, one LAX-LHR, two on days off in LHR. So there’s 55. Add in standby say 5 each day, annual leave say 7 each Day and you’re now up to 67 plus a handful of extras so you’re never short crewed. Add in a few managers and you’re up to 75. You have Airport staff (mostly team leaders, managers) say that’s another dozen or so. There you’re up to around 90. Then you have the London office (bookings, calls, marketing etc).
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Motorhussy
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:39 am

I’d wager that if NZ can get AKL-EWR working with existing equipment they’ll order new aircraft specific to ULR routes, with fewer seats overall and proportionately more in the premium cabins, at some point.

They have options for GE powered 789’s.
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Galwayman
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:46 am

airbazar wrote:
5th freedom or not I can't imagine NYC being a larger market than LHR, from AKL. Is it? So they are replacing a 5th freedom route with a questionably viable ULR one. Hummm...


They’re probably looking for the most profitable market not just the largest one , airfares and yields from Lon to NZ are pure trash ...
 
OmerMaz
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:48 am

Motorhussy wrote:
I’d wager that if NZ can get AKL-EWR working with existing equipment they’ll order new aircraft specific to ULR routes, with fewer seats overall and proportionately more in the premium cabins, at some point.

They have options for GE powered 789’s.


As said earlier, they have a more premium heavy yet less in general capacity 789s.
With some restrictions they'll be able to pull it off as the general distance is around 14,200 km, so that it scratches the limits of a MTOW 789.
But...QF showed us it's possible and can also be quite a successefull route.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:15 am

I’m glad that NZ chose EWR because I simply don’t understand why airlines chose JFK? Is it for anything more than the name? First, it is further from Manhattan and that’s where most people come to to visit! Moving forward, their facilities are packed. Lastly, EWR also has a big “local” demand with people and companies from Jersey City, Hoboken, Newark I.e. (Citi, Bank of America, EY, Goya)...
 
NZ321
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:44 am

Don't forget folks, that NZ has already publicly announced its economy extra product that will be rolled out starting next year on its long haul fleet. So the code 2 789 at 275 seats is likely going to drop a little - we don't yet know the expected final configuration but I'd expect we will lose at least 1 row of economy (i.e. a config of about 266). We'll have to wait and see.

We may be jumping to conclusions that the release of 77W will be assigned to LAX given LHR withdrawal; NZ may decide to mix and match with 772 and use some 77W capacity elsewhere. They will also need to plan for some 77W downtime to install economy extra. Going to be interesting to see how all of this rolls out.

I am also sad to see LHR go, but plenty of options exist with their well oiled alliances and partnerships with LH, SQ, CX, LX, UA for starters.
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vahancrazy
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:03 am

Zkpilot wrote:
vahancrazy wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
I thinks it’s rather telling that a single route cut will cost 130 jobs. Whilst very sad, that’s a huge number of jobs to go for a single route. Whilst airport jobs make sense, a seperate crew group for a single port with the associated overheads is a significant cost when competing against other carriers across the atlantic. It makes sense if that cost is spread AKL-LAX-LHR, but with only 7% of pax competing the whole journey it doesn’t make sense


What? 130jobs?

Can you help me with the math? It seems huge number for a 7 times per week route although on an 77W.

Thank you!

Well on any given day you have 5x 11 crew (one LHR-LAX, one in LAX, one LAX-LHR, two on days off in LHR. So there’s 55. Add in standby say 5 each day, annual leave say 7 each Day and you’re now up to 67 plus a handful of extras so you’re never short crewed. Add in a few managers and you’re up to 75. You have Airport staff (mostly team leaders, managers) say that’s another dozen or so. There you’re up to around 90. Then you have the London office (bookings, calls, marketing etc).


Thank you!
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MIflyer12
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:11 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
I’m glad that NZ chose EWR because I simply don’t understand why airlines chose JFK? Is it for anything more than the name? First, it is further from Manhattan and that’s where most people come to to visit! Moving forward, their facilities are packed. Lastly, EWR also has a big “local” demand with people and companies from Jersey City, Hoboken, Newark I.e. (Citi, Bank of America, EY, Goya)...


You can try to rationalize it away but JFK is by far NYC's leading international airport in passenger count, carriers operating internationally, and non-stop intl destinations. For 12-months ending 3/19:

JFK, 33.5 million intl passengers

EWR, 13.6 million passengers

https://www.transportation.gov/sites/do ... h-2019.pdf

http://www.panynj.gov/airports/pdf-traf ... Y_2019.pdf

A better question is why EWR and not JFK? There isn't going to be much UA-connecting traffic in the Northeast, and ORD could already handle much of it.
 
behramjee
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:26 am

I wonder who will take over NZ slots at LHR

Arr 1050 daily
Dep 1520 daily

These are quite attractive timings for trans-atlantic and arab carriers.
 
NZ321
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:39 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
I’m glad that NZ chose EWR because I simply don’t understand why airlines chose JFK? Is it for anything more than the name? First, it is further from Manhattan and that’s where most people come to to visit! Moving forward, their facilities are packed. Lastly, EWR also has a big “local” demand with people and companies from Jersey City, Hoboken, Newark I.e. (Citi, Bank of America, EY, Goya)...


You can try to rationalize it away but JFK is by far NYC's leading international airport in passenger count, carriers operating internationally, and non-stop intl destinations. For 12-months ending 3/19:

JFK, 33.5 million intl passengers

EWR, 13.6 million passengers

https://www.transportation.gov/sites/do ... h-2019.pdf

http://www.panynj.gov/airports/pdf-traf ... Y_2019.pdf

A better question is why EWR and not JFK? There isn't going to be much UA-connecting traffic in the Northeast, and ORD could already handle much of it.


The answers - (1) UAL, and a code share / partnership on the flight. That won't be possible out of JFK. UAL has no presence at JFK although they are now seeking some slots. (2) Also there is a huge amount of reconstruction planned for JFK and it's not going to be an easy ride for airlines - EWR is also reconstructing terminal A but UAL is at terminal C which as far as I know is newer and not affected. (3) Flying into NYC although primarily about NYC is not just about NYC but also about connectivity in the North East US (refer UAL schedules, ORD vs EWR). I doubt NZ would pursue this without the cushion of connectivity provided by UAL even though that is not the main aim. Further, as I understand it, many business travelers prefer EWR to JFK as an entry point to Manhattan because of shorter distance. (4) And lastly, Star partners SK, LH, LX, OS, LO all fly into EWR.
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Kiwirob
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:52 am

Even thought I wasn't getting on them I always felt homesick and some pride in seeing NZ aircraft in LHR. It's a sad announcement. I also think public opinion will be against them re this decision.
 
JustSomeDood
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:06 pm

zkojq wrote:
Lufthansa wrote:
As for the 77W's... the obvious thing to do with the freed up ones is up gagde SIN. However I also wouldn't be surprised to see them dump the 777 entirely with the 787-10 coming.

HKG is probably a route better suited to the 77W, considering that the 787-10s have the range for Singapore. IAH is another good place to send the 77Ws permenantly - if nothing else, they'll be able to uplift a meaningful cargo load on that route. :lol:


Given what UA is doing with their 787-10s over the pacific, range would not be a concern to get to HKG. The 77Ws would probably be best served on NA routes but it would not be surprising to see both the 78Js and 77Ws overlap routes a lot once the 77Es are gone.

Come to think of it, now would be a damn good time to secure/lease extra cheap(er) slots in HK to fly to LHR, all of NZ's widebodies (789/78J/77W/77E) have the legs for HKG-LHR, and HKIA might be persuaded to partially subsidize the extra overflight fees through Russia just to get a much needed W these days... :stirthepot: :stirthepot:
 
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:09 pm

Motorhussy wrote:
I’d wager that if NZ can get AKL-EWR working with existing equipment they’ll order new aircraft specific to ULR routes, with fewer seats overall and proportionately more in the premium cabins, at some point.

They have options for GE powered 789’s.

The big takeaway from the 77E replacement decision is that they're in capital conservation mode. They went for a low cost/risk one for one replacement. It's clear they won't be buying for expansion until it's clear they can see a return to sustained growth. Doubt that will happen before the 77Ws are up for replacement.
 
Aceskywalker
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:27 pm

Kinda makes sense from a passenger convenience perspective. The United States is extremely unfriendly for operating 5th freedom routes with lack of sterile transit. Better off transiting through YVR, HKG, or SIN. The fact that French airlines can make Paris-LAX/SFO-PPT work is amazing.
 
Bhoy
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:28 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Even thought I wasn't getting on them I always felt homesick and some pride in seeing NZ aircraft in LHR. It's a sad announcement. I also think public opinion will be against them re this decision.

I also find it surprising, given the attitude of people in NZ towards heading to the UK- I travelled on NZ1 on holiday 11 years ago, and got talking to a barmaid in Whanganui who’d been to London, but never to the South Island of NZ (80 miles away).
 
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United787
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:34 pm

AVFCdownunder wrote:
United787 wrote:
So EWR will join the "six continents club"!

Without getting into a stupid discussion on the geology, geography and geopolitical meaning of continents, it is safe to say that the general A-Net consensus of this made up A-Net designation is that New Zealand can be counted as part of Australia...



it's definitely not safe to say, New Zealand and Australia are two independant countries and kiwis will not thank you for suggesting they are part of Australia. Both countries are in Oceania / Australasia though, if that is what you meant.


Yes, that is what I meant. That New Zealand is grouped with Australia in geographic terms, not that it is a part of Australia, politically or geologically. Having lived in Melbourne for 6 months, I understand the sensitivity even though I can't distinguish between the accents anymore :(
 
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zkojq
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:41 pm

tealnz wrote:
Motorhussy wrote:
I’d wager that if NZ can get AKL-EWR working with existing equipment they’ll order new aircraft specific to ULR routes, with fewer seats overall and proportionately more in the premium cabins, at some point.

They have options for GE powered 789’s.

The big takeaway from the 77E replacement decision is that they're in capital conservation mode. They went for a low cost/risk one for one replacement. It's clear they won't be buying for expansion until it's clear they can see a return to sustained growth. Doubt that will happen before the 77Ws are up for replacement.

:checkmark: and when you think about it, that's perfectly logical. The airline has undergone massive growth in the past few years. New routes to IAH, ORD, TPE, ICN, DPS, HND, SGN (cancelled temporarily) as well as CHC-PER & CHC-SIN, restarting SIN and KIX, whilst also growing domestic capacity at ~5% per year every year since 2011 or so. At some point you're inevitably going to have to put the brakes on growth and let them mature, especially when approaching potentially volatile economic periods. With this in mind, the 787 becomes very much the safe option even though many of us are still wishing that they'd bought A359/Ks or 777-8/9s.
First to fly the 787-9
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:42 pm

behramjee wrote:
I wonder who will take over NZ slots at LHR

Arr 1050 daily
Dep 1520 daily

These are quite attractive timings for trans-atlantic and arab carriers.


If NZ is smart they will lease them out rather than sell them off.
 
NZ516
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:42 pm

Air New Zealand was at a huge disadvantage in operating their LHR to AKL flights. Due to the higher UK departure tax charged on every ticket sold through to NZ. At £175 it's the highest amount charged which this cost has to be added in to the ticket price. All other airlines EK, QR, CZ, MH etc offering connection flights between the UK and NZ don't pay the higher rate. Therefore they were always able to undercut Air NZ and had an unfair advantage. Which always made AIR NZ the most expensive option on a return AKL LHR flight when choosing between a large number of available airlines.
 
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cathay747
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:42 pm

behramjee wrote:
I wonder who will take over NZ slots at LHR

Arr 1050 daily
Dep 1520 daily

These are quite attractive timings for trans-atlantic and arab carriers.


Calling jetBlue, calling jetBlue...
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
Arion640
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:55 pm

Has anyone not realised yet these are in fact 2 separate business moves just paired together for PR purposes to put a positive spin on it?

Sad to them go never the less.
 
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qf789
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:11 pm

Forum Moderator
 
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qf789
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:23 pm

NZ also says working with Boeing in maximising capability of 789's, will involve slight improvement to MTOW, load restrictions may apply dependent on season and weather

https://twitter.com/AvWeekScho/status/1 ... 06624?s=20
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dmstorm22
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:18 pm

qf789 wrote:


Something seems off with this.

For the return leg, that flight would take off at 02:55 local time in Newark - so the flight is only 14:40?

Maybe it's a daylight savings time issue or something.

The EWR-AKL one seems ok.
 
bananaboy
Posts: 1683
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:42 pm

NZ516 wrote:
Air New Zealand was at a huge disadvantage in operating their LHR to AKL flights. Due to the higher UK departure tax charged on every ticket sold through to NZ. At £175 it's the highest amount charged which this cost has to be added in to the ticket price. All other airlines EK, QR, CZ, MH etc offering connection flights between the UK and NZ don't pay the higher rate. Therefore they were always able to undercut Air NZ and had an unfair advantage. Which always made AIR NZ the most expensive option on a return AKL LHR flight when choosing between a large number of available airlines.


That's not correct. APD is charged on the destination of the passenger and not the aircraft if the connection is less than 24 hours. Flying LHR-DXB-AKL will attract the same rate of APD as someone flying LHR-LAX-AKL if they are connecting straight through.

Mark
All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
 
EMB170
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:05 pm

I'm quite stoked to welcome NZ to NJ! Any word on when these flights will become bookable?
IND ORD ATL MCO PIT EWR BUF CVG DEN RNO JFK DTW BOS BDL BWI IAD RDU CLT MYR CHS TPA CID MSP STL MSY DFW IAH AUS SLC LAS
 
JayBCN
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:00 pm

With all those wonderful trade deals that England will strike after Brexit I would have thought there would have to be an increased need for direct Intra-Commonwealth airlinks sich as AKL-LON-AKL.
 
aryonoco
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:53 pm

Bhoy wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
I also find it surprising, given the attitude of people in NZ towards heading to the UK- I travelled on NZ1 on holiday 11 years ago, and got talking to a barmaid in Whanganui who’d been to London, but never to the South Island of NZ (80 miles away).


My wife grew up in Whangarei and has been to Paris, London and NYC a lot more times than to the south island (once).
 
DavidByrne
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:02 pm

bananaboy wrote:
Won't cutting LAX/LHR give them two 77W aircraft to play with as they can't do this return flight in 24 hours?

LHR/LAX 1615/1940
LAX/LHR 1715/1145+1

No, it will just save one a/c. Currently AKL-LAX-LHR return requires three aircraft, but AKL-LAX requires requires two. So one aircraft saved, enough for EWR at 3x weekly.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:22 pm

EMB170 wrote:
I'm quite stoked to welcome NZ to NJ! Any word on when these flights will become bookable?

NZ typically loads seats for sale around 340 days out. Then again as this is a new route they might delay that a bit further. I’d say maybe January.
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
NZ516
Posts: 466
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:02 am

bananaboy wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Air New Zealand was at a huge disadvantage in operating their LHR to AKL flights. Due to the higher UK departure tax charged on every ticket sold through to NZ. At £175 it's the highest amount charged which this cost has to be added in to the ticket price. All other airlines EK, QR, CZ, MH etc offering connection flights between the UK and NZ don't pay the higher rate. Therefore they were always able to undercut Air NZ and had an unfair advantage. Which always made AIR NZ the most expensive option on a return AKL LHR flight when choosing between a large number of available airlines.


That's not correct. APD is charged on the destination of the passenger and not the aircraft if the connection is less than 24 hours. Flying LHR-DXB-AKL will attract the same rate of APD as someone flying LHR-LAX-AKL if they are connecting straight through.

Mark


Hi Mark, I stand corrected then I had misread that it only applies to direct flights and not connections with two different flight numbers. You could get round it by buying two separate tickets one LHR-DXB and then one DXB-AKL.etc and avoid paying the highest charge.
 
NZ516
Posts: 466
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:12 am

Air New Zealand releases details of new New York flights

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/116 ... rk-flights

First flight is 29 October 2020 and will connect with United's 400 daily flights out of Newark.
 
tso310
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 9:16 am

Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:12 am

Just want to mention Qatar and One World. Last week I flew LGW-DOH-BKK, flight upgraded from a B788 to a A333 and it was full. Sitting in the back cabin I was surprised just how many New Zealanders were in the cabin. At least 30 in that cabin. I passed the AKL gate at Doha and there was a healthy queue for it. Bearing in mind that, I stand corrected if wrong, most of their UK provincial city flights have a link to the 02:20 AKL flight then a one stop from say MAN to AKL makes alot of sense particularly avoiding LHR. Probably the cheapest flights and quickest to be had with that quick change at DOH.
 
smi0006
Posts: 2580
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:25 am

dmstorm22 wrote:
qf789 wrote:


Something seems off with this.

For the return leg, that flight would take off at 02:55 local time in Newark - so the flight is only 14:40?

Maybe it's a daylight savings time issue or something.

The EWR-AKL one seems ok.


Wonder what the new LAX flight numbers will be? And if the schedule will change at all?
 
zkncj
Posts: 3912
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:34 am

smi0006 wrote:
dmstorm22 wrote:
qf789 wrote:


Something seems off with this.

For the return leg, that flight would take off at 02:55 local time in Newark - so the flight is only 14:40?

Maybe it's a daylight savings time issue or something.

The EWR-AKL one seems ok.


Wonder what the new LAX flight numbers will be? And if the schedule will change at all?


Probably NZ3/4 - which is what is currently used when an 3rd service is operated to LAX.

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