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RyanairGuru
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:41 am

NZ516 wrote:
bananaboy wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Air New Zealand was at a huge disadvantage in operating their LHR to AKL flights. Due to the higher UK departure tax charged on every ticket sold through to NZ. At £175 it's the highest amount charged which this cost has to be added in to the ticket price. All other airlines EK, QR, CZ, MH etc offering connection flights between the UK and NZ don't pay the higher rate. Therefore they were always able to undercut Air NZ and had an unfair advantage. Which always made AIR NZ the most expensive option on a return AKL LHR flight when choosing between a large number of available airlines.


That's not correct. APD is charged on the destination of the passenger and not the aircraft if the connection is less than 24 hours. Flying LHR-DXB-AKL will attract the same rate of APD as someone flying LHR-LAX-AKL if they are connecting straight through.

Mark


Hi Mark, I stand corrected then I had misread that it only applies to direct flights and not connections with two different flight numbers. You could get round it by buying two separate tickets one LHR-DXB and then one DXB-AKL.etc and avoid paying the highest charge.


The O&D fare for LHR-DXB is probably not much less than LHR-AKL. Purchasing two separate tickets will almost certainly cost you more, not withstanding that less will go the British government.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
Arion640
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:59 am

Petition to keep the route flying has started https://our.actionstation.org.nz/petiti ... z2-flights
 
zkncj
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:53 am

Arion640 wrote:
Petition to keep the route flying has started https://our.actionstation.org.nz/petiti ... z2-flights


Hardly think it will do anything thing, there are much more comfortable ways to get travel AKL-LHR.

Having done it a couple of times over the last few years by flying NZ to the US or Aisa then connecting to an partner, the NZ operated sector were the worst.
 
NZ516
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:39 am

Looks like the petition has been removed for some reason.
 
Nouflyer
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:52 am

Air NZ is taking a rather tone-deaf position in terms of Brexit.

Whether British people oppose or support Brexit, it’s an undeniable fact that it has already strengthened aviation ties with Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the USA, all of whose citizens now get to use the UK/EU entry machines at British airports.

Again, whether you support or oppose Brexit, those other four countries between them offer an economic market as large as the EU for the UK. Actually larger.

So like it or not, a post EU UK will have little choice but to seek closer economic ties with those four countries....and Australia has already made clear that Freedom of Labour (not Movement as per the EU) will be the price for a free trade agreement.

It means that LAX-LHR is likely to become a much more significant market after Brexit, but also that the old ties between those four countries and the UK are likely to be strengthened.

So it’s an extremely brave time to exit LAX-LHR.
 
smi0006
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:12 am

zkncj wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Petition to keep the route flying has started https://our.actionstation.org.nz/petiti ... z2-flights


Hardly think it will do anything thing, there are much more comfortable ways to get travel AKL-LHR.

Having done it a couple of times over the last few years by flying NZ to the US or Aisa then connecting to an partner, the NZ operated sector were the worst.


Looking at NZ Facebook page - a lot of sad people, but most flag LAX was a horrid transit experience and they understand the decision.

NZ is a business, petition won’t translate to $$s people can be a little too sentimental. Of all the things to petition over in the current global political, social, and environmental climate.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:24 am

Nouflyer wrote:
Air NZ is taking a rather tone-deaf position in terms of Brexit.

Whether British people oppose or support Brexit, it’s an undeniable fact that it has already strengthened aviation ties with Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the USA, all of whose citizens now get to use the UK/EU entry machines at British airports.

Again, whether you support or oppose Brexit, those other four countries between them offer an economic market as large as the EU for the UK. Actually larger.

So like it or not, a post EU UK will have little choice but to seek closer economic ties with those four countries....and Australia has already made clear that Freedom of Labour (not Movement as per the EU) will be the price for a free trade agreement.

It means that LAX-LHR is likely to become a much more significant market after Brexit, but also that the old ties between those four countries and the UK are likely to be strengthened.

So it’s an extremely brave time to exit LAX-LHR.

It's not as if NZ has abandoned Europe or the UK - just that it won't serve them on its own metal. I can't believe that NZ will have not had its ears well to the ground over the implications of Brexit. Just love the way everyone has strong views on the LHR pullout while having none of the information that NZ decision makers will have had when making the call! If they believe that the route is not viable, then I'm happy to believe them. Why would they can it if it was a living, breathing route with heaps of potential?
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
wawaman
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:33 am

Surely whats happening here is that NZ are telling us that NZ1/2 is really 2 markets. AKL<->LAX and LAX<->LHR. You can see this when you try to book AKL to LHR. They do a lot to convince you to go via Asia. So if we accept that they are 2 different markets, then what they are saying is that LAX<->LHR is not core which seems reasonable doesn't it. This has nothing to do NZ saying the UK market is/is not important.
 
eagles94
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:45 pm

So the LHR cabin crew base will just get made redundant then? Seems like a waste of a valuable pool of experience as they only really recruit people with significant experience.
 
jamsco99
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:25 pm

Out of interest how many planes did this route utilise and what was the eound trip time from Auckland in lieing layover at lhr

Thanks
 
zkncj
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:51 pm

eagles94 wrote:
So the LHR cabin crew base will just get made redundant then? Seems like a waste of a valuable pool of experience as they only really recruit people with significant experience.


They have been offered other roles within NZ, some of the crew are from New Zealand that have been living in the UK so they will likely move home.

Some will transfer to AKL, on work visa (this already happens now with some LHR crew coming for a couple of year stint in AKL).

NZ is short of long-haul cabin crew at the moment, so the ones willing to re-location will likely keep their jobs.
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:23 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
[It's not as if NZ has abandoned Europe or the UK - just that it won't serve them on its own metal.


United flies from EWR to LHR 4-5 times per day, so presumably, there will be a codeshare that will permit ANZ passengers to continue on to LHR.

Star Alliance Partners that fly into Auckland
Air Canada Seasonal: Vancouver (begins 12 December 2019)
Air China Beijing–Capital
Singapore Airlines Singapore
United Airlines San Francisco

So Aucklanders can fly to London via a Star alliance partner via PEK, SIN, or SFO as well as via EWR.

AKL LAX LHR 11,960 mi
AKL SFO LHR 11,884 mi
AKL PEK LHR 11,543 mi
AKL SIN LHR 11,990 mi
AKL EWR LHR 12,275 mi
 
NZ516
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:35 pm

jamsco99 wrote:
Out of interest how many planes did this route utilise and what was the eound trip time from Auckland in lieing layover at lhr

Thanks


The route uses 3 77Ws includes a return Australian or Nadi sector in-between. The rotation takes 53 hours to get back to AKL.
 
PhilMcCrackin
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:04 am

zkncj wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Petition to keep the route flying has started https://our.actionstation.org.nz/petiti ... z2-flights


Hardly think it will do anything thing, there are much more comfortable ways to get travel AKL-LHR.

Having done it a couple of times over the last few years by flying NZ to the US or Aisa then connecting to an partner, the NZ operated sector were the worst.


AKL-PER-LHR seems to make a lot more sense than AKL-LAX-LHR.
 
zkncj
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:22 am

PacoMartin wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
[It's not as if NZ has abandoned Europe or the UK - just that it won't serve them on its own metal.


United flies from EWR to LHR 4-5 times per day, so presumably, there will be a codeshare that will permit ANZ passengers to continue on to LHR.

Star Alliance Partners that fly into Auckland
Air Canada Seasonal: Vancouver (begins 12 December 2019)
Air China Beijing–Capital
Singapore Airlines Singapore
United Airlines San Francisco

So Aucklanders can fly to London via a Star alliance partner via PEK, SIN, or SFO as well as via EWR.

AKL LAX LHR 11,960 mi
AKL SFO LHR 11,884 mi
AKL PEK LHR 11,543 mi
AKL SIN LHR 11,990 mi
AKL EWR LHR 12,275 mi


There are plenty of ways to get between AKL-LHR, in fact when booking ex-AKL NZ’s own website prefers to offer you other options. Typically you’ll get offered:

AKL-HKG-LHR/LGW on NZ then CX,VS or even BA. They will also offer you CX all the way.
AKL-BKK-LHR on NZ then TH
AKL-PVG-LHR on NZ then CA or VS
AKL-NRT-LHR on NZ the VS or NH
AKL-SIN-LHR on NZ then SQ or SQ all the way.

NZ has an joint venture with UA,SQ,CX which provide many routing options between New Zealand and Europe.
 
NYKiwi
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:27 am

I wonder if they will retime the old NZ 2 out of AKL.so leaves a bit later and then spends less time on the ground in LAX......i.know they rely on some.Oz feed ...but now they dont have to leave to make slot at LHR could there be a rejig
 
NZ516
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:58 am

There is 12 code share routes to get to London including the list above and also with Air Canada through YVR, All the ones with United, Eva Air through TPE and soon from 23 November with Asiana through ICN. They could even offer a route via EZE with AR to LHR.
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:20 am

NZ516 wrote:
There is 12 code share routes to get to London including the list above and also with Air Canada through YVR, All the ones with United, Eva Air through TPE and soon from 23 November with Asiana through ICN. They could even offer a route via EZE with AR to LHR.


Looking at the timetable on the ANZ website only Singapore and Hong Kong offer reasonable layovers of around 2-3 hours.
 
BCA2005
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:51 am

With regards to the alternative routings mentioned:
NZ don’t fly to BKK
CA don’t fly PVG-LHR
VS no longer fly NRT-LHR (was dropped a few years ago)
AR don’t fly EZE-LHR
 
YYZORD
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:18 am

Can't NZ do AKL-YYZ-LHR? I'm sure the route would be more viable through Canada instead of the US?
 
UAL777UK
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:49 am

behramjee wrote:
I wonder who will take over NZ slots at LHR

Arr 1050 daily
Dep 1520 daily

These are quite attractive timings for trans-atlantic and arab carriers.


I would like to think UA gets it and does some kind of deal with NZ. Maybe offering job opportunities for the NZ staff in LHR as part of a deal? As you say though, attractive times, many will try and get hold of themi am sure.

Personally I am sad at the thought of NZ not gracing these shores in the near future.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:53 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
The O&D fare for LHR-DXB is probably not much less than LHR-AKL. Purchasing two separate tickets will almost certainly cost you more, not withstanding that less will go the British government.


At RBA we tried to work around the UK APD by ticketing pax LHR-DXB, DXB-BWN on the same flight so there was no fare difference. Trouble was DXB departure tax then kicked in and when you tried to over-ride it only as a transit, computer said no.

LHR-PEK-AKL would be the most pleasant routing for me in terms of flight durations. Unfortunately, the PEK transit immigration experience kills any joy from this option.
 
smi0006
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:51 am

UAL777UK wrote:
behramjee wrote:
I wonder who will take over NZ slots at LHR

Arr 1050 daily
Dep 1520 daily

These are quite attractive timings for trans-atlantic and arab carriers.


I would like to think UA gets it and does some kind of deal with NZ. Maybe offering job opportunities for the NZ staff in LHR as part of a deal? As you say though, attractive times, many will try and get hold of themi am sure.

Personally I am sad at the thought of NZ not gracing these shores in the near future.


No way would the UA cabin crew unions allow it, and NZ only has two airport staff in LHR rest are Menzies. Marketing and commercial team will stay in smaller numbers, most will move on. Kiwi cabin crew will decide if they want to head back to NZ or stay in the U.K. as for local U.K. and EU cabin crew they could apply to move to AKL, but massive lifestyle shift and far from home, I doubt many will.
 
APYu
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:42 am

Whilst it is of course tremendously sad for the UK NZ Crews, Its really good that they have a years notice of this happening. When you think about the notice the TCX staff recently got, a year is a really good notice period to have time to think about what you want to do next when dreadful events such as redundancy are thrust on you.
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
NZ321
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:55 am

PacoMartin wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
[It's not as if NZ has abandoned Europe or the UK - just that it won't serve them on its own metal.


United flies from EWR to LHR 4-5 times per day, so presumably, there will be a codeshare that will permit ANZ passengers to continue on to LHR.

Star Alliance Partners that fly into Auckland
Air Canada Seasonal: Vancouver (begins 12 December 2019)
Air China Beijing–Capital
Singapore Airlines Singapore
United Airlines San Francisco

So Aucklanders can fly to London via a Star alliance partner via PEK, SIN, or SFO as well as via EWR.

AKL LAX LHR 11,960 mi
AKL SFO LHR 11,884 mi
AKL PEK LHR 11,543 mi
AKL SIN LHR 11,990 mi
AKL EWR LHR 12,275 mi


Don't forget TG :)
Plane mad!
 
planemanofnz
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:59 am

It wouldn't surprise me to see NZ back at LHR in 10-15 years, non-stop from AKL, with technology allowing it.

I mean, seriously, who would have thought 10-15 years ago that we would have seen routes like DOH - AKL?

Cheers,

C.
 
xiaotung
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:41 am

BCA2005 wrote:
With regards to the alternative routings mentioned:
NZ don’t fly to BKK
CA don’t fly PVG-LHR
VS no longer fly NRT-LHR (was dropped a few years ago)
AR don’t fly EZE-LHR


CA now offers PVG-LGW.
 
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United787
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:45 pm

PacoMartin wrote:

AKL LAX LHR 11,960 mi
AKL SFO LHR 11,884 mi
AKL PEK LHR 11,543 mi
AKL SIN LHR 11,990 mi
AKL EWR LHR 12,275 mi


Also:
AKL ORD LHR 12,136 mi

AKL-ORD on NZ arrives at 4:05pm which allows for connections to two UA flights to LHR (1 hr 50 min OR 5 hr 0 min layovers)

ORD-AKL on NZ departs at 7:00pm which allows for connections from two UA flights from LHR (3 hr 30 min OR 5 hr 25 min layovers)
 
BenflysDTW
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:31 pm

AKL-LHR is 723 NM longer than SYD-LHR. 9188 vs 9911. That’s gotta be about 21-23 hours flying time.
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:04 pm

BenflysDTW wrote:
AKL-LHR is 723 NM longer than SYD-LHR. 9188 vs 9911. That’s gotta be about 21-23 hours flying time.

True, that said NZ would be able to use the prevailing winds in both directions (eg fly up over the US to LHR and fly back via Asia). I think QF is looking at via Asia both ways.
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
tealnz
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:20 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
BenflysDTW wrote:
AKL-LHR is 723 NM longer than SYD-LHR. 9188 vs 9911. That’s gotta be about 21-23 hours flying time.

True, that said NZ would be able to use the prevailing winds in both directions (eg fly up over the US to LHR and fly back via Asia). I think QF is looking at via Asia both ways.

Leeham reported a year or two back, based on conversations with Qantas insiders, that the normal SYD-LHR route would be polar, roughly over Anchorage. Factoring in winds this would cap the equivalent still air distance at around 9500nm.
 
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janders
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:06 pm

Route Online weekly newsletter states that EK has the largest current AKL-LON market share capturing 14.7 percent of travelers.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... rk-service
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
zkncj
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:06 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
There is 12 code share routes to get to London including the list above and also with Air Canada through YVR, All the ones with United, Eva Air through TPE and soon from 23 November with Asiana through ICN. They could even offer a route via EZE with AR to LHR.


Looking at the timetable on the ANZ website only Singapore and Hong Kong offer reasonable layovers of around 2-3 hours.


Looking at the online timetable isn’t the best option, there are plenty more options that the booking engine offers you with some connections being just over an hour in Aisa.

Then there is always the option to stop longer in Asia and spend an night there. Allot do the New Zealand market doesn’t mind an cheeky stop over in Asia’s on the way to Europe.
 
jfk777
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:03 pm

ANZ's new flight to Newark is bold and rounds out their US expansion very nicely with Chicago. Giving up London is sad but the world is different then 37 years ago, alliances and Emirates have changed things. Surprising it lasted this long, ANZ should have made a deal with Star alliance airlines to route their passengers via Asia where many Star airlines fly daily to LHR. More interesting will be what ANZ does with the extra 777 capacity the London route used.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:47 pm

jfk777 wrote:
ANZ's new flight to Newark is bold and rounds out their US expansion very nicely with Chicago. Giving up London is sad but the world is different then 37 years ago, alliances and Emirates have changed things. Surprising it lasted this long, ANZ should have made a deal with Star alliance airlines to route their passengers via Asia where many Star airlines fly daily to LHR. More interesting will be what ANZ does with the extra 777 capacity the London route used.

NZ already does have arrangements with several airlines, SQ and CX (despite not being *A) in particular, to do just that, and has had for some while. Most of the traffic on AKL-LAX-LHR was either AKL-LAX or LAX-LHR; it was more financially advantageous for the airline to route through pax through Asia and sell the two sectors effectively as stand-alone sectors. But now, obviously, LAX-LHR standalone doesn't work for them.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
Gasman
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:53 pm

Nouflyer wrote:
Air NZ is taking a rather tone-deaf position in terms of Brexit.

Whether British people oppose or support Brexit, it’s an undeniable fact that it has already strengthened aviation ties with Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the USA, all of whose citizens now get to use the UK/EU entry machines at British airports.

Again, whether you support or oppose Brexit, those other four countries between them offer an economic market as large as the EU for the UK. Actually larger.

So like it or not, a post EU UK will have little choice but to seek closer economic ties with those four countries....and Australia has already made clear that Freedom of Labour (not Movement as per the EU) will be the price for a free trade agreement.

It means that LAX-LHR is likely to become a much more significant market after Brexit, but also that the old ties between those four countries and the UK are likely to be strengthened.

So it’s an extremely brave time to exit LAX-LHR.


I take your point K'man, but the inescapable reality is that there remains a tsunami of cheaper and more comfortable ways to travel between AKL and LHR than on an NZ 77W via LAX.
 
NTLDaz
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:27 am

planemanofnz wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me to see NZ back at LHR in 10-15 years, non-stop from AKL, with technology allowing it.

I mean, seriously, who would have thought 10-15 years ago that we would have seen routes like DOH - AKL?

Cheers,

C.


I would think if this was an option they'd retain LHR for now to make a non stop easier. Just my thoughts.

Other issue is do you ever see AKL having the premium demand QF will in Oz ? It's the premium demand that'll make or break these routes.
 
NTLDaz
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:28 am

YYZORD wrote:
Can't NZ do AKL-YYZ-LHR? I'm sure the route would be more viable through Canada instead of the US?


But why would they ? If the transit experience was an issue they could have kept HKG - LHR.
 
Gasman
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:39 am

NTLDaz wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
Can't NZ do AKL-YYZ-LHR? I'm sure the route would be more viable through Canada instead of the US?


But why would they ? If the transit experience was an issue they could have kept HKG - LHR.


It was certainly an issue but not the only one. Enough people have realised by now that you can travel to LHR on better hard products for less money than it costs to fly NZ (which yes, comes with a dreadful transit experience at LAX to boot).
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:49 am

smi0006 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Petition to keep the route flying has started https://our.actionstation.org.nz/petiti ... z2-flights


Hardly think it will do anything thing, there are much more comfortable ways to get travel AKL-LHR.

Having done it a couple of times over the last few years by flying NZ to the US or Aisa then connecting to an partner, the NZ operated sector were the worst.


Looking at NZ Facebook page - a lot of sad people, but most flag LAX was a horrid transit experience and they understand the decision.

NZ is a business, petition won’t translate to $$s people can be a little too sentimental. Of all the things to petition over in the current global political, social, and environmental climate.


I then have to wonder why it was HKG-LHR that was dropped, or not shifted to SIN (AKL-SIN-LHR). I also notice that the ME3, especially EK and QR, are basically the coup de grace on this, as DXB and DOH are great transit airports (the flights to AKL from the Middle East are also among the longest in the world), and then you have QF as well. (For purposes of aviation, Australia and New Zealand are considered a single aviation market.)
 
zkncj
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:55 am

jfk777 wrote:
ANZ's new flight to Newark is bold and rounds out their US expansion very nicely with Chicago. Giving up London is sad but the world is different then 37 years ago, alliances and Emirates have changed things. Surprising it lasted this long, ANZ should have made a deal with Star alliance airlines to route their passengers via Asia where many Star airlines fly daily to LHR. More interesting will be what ANZ does with the extra 777 capacity the London route used.


I think some of it will go towards removing the 77E from long-haul flying, freeing up some the 789s from current short-haul routes.

It makes more sense to use the 77E on shorter route were the fuel saving of the 77W/789 is less effective.

We already seen more 77E’s start doing 4x short-haul sectors in an day over the last year compared to 2x short-haul + and overnight sector. The 77Es are basically the new 763s which will get thrashed until there scrap metal.
 
Gasman
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:53 am

zkncj wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
ANZ's new flight to Newark is bold and rounds out their US expansion very nicely with Chicago. Giving up London is sad but the world is different then 37 years ago, alliances and Emirates have changed things. Surprising it lasted this long, ANZ should have made a deal with Star alliance airlines to route their passengers via Asia where many Star airlines fly daily to LHR. More interesting will be what ANZ does with the extra 777 capacity the London route used.


I think some of it will go towards removing the 77E from long-haul flying, freeing up some the 789s from current short-haul routes.

It makes more sense to use the 77E on shorter route were the fuel saving of the 77W/789 is less effective.

We already seen more 77E’s start doing 4x short-haul sectors in an day over the last year compared to 2x short-haul + and overnight sector. The 77Es are basically the new 763s which will get thrashed until there scrap metal.


Is there now an argument to be made for the entire medium/long haul international fleet to be made up of 789s?
 
DavidByrne
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:00 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
For purposes of aviation, Australia and New Zealand are considered a single aviation market.

Only insofar as local traffic is concerned. Rights for services to other countries are negotiated by their individual governments on a bilateral basis.
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Zkpilot
Posts: 4522
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:41 am

Gasman wrote:
zkncj wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
ANZ's new flight to Newark is bold and rounds out their US expansion very nicely with Chicago. Giving up London is sad but the world is different then 37 years ago, alliances and Emirates have changed things. Surprising it lasted this long, ANZ should have made a deal with Star alliance airlines to route their passengers via Asia where many Star airlines fly daily to LHR. More interesting will be what ANZ does with the extra 777 capacity the London route used.


I think some of it will go towards removing the 77E from long-haul flying, freeing up some the 789s from current short-haul routes.

It makes more sense to use the 77E on shorter route were the fuel saving of the 77W/789 is less effective.

We already seen more 77E’s start doing 4x short-haul sectors in an day over the last year compared to 2x short-haul + and overnight sector. The 77Es are basically the new 763s which will get thrashed until there scrap metal.


Is there now an argument to be made for the entire medium/long haul international fleet to be made up of 789s?

789s and 10s most definitely. If they get the performance they want from a 789 doing EWR then no need to go for a bigger aircraft type (A350/77X) the 78J can cover routes needing bigger capacity with less range.
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tealnz
Posts: 638
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:47 am

Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:43 am

Zkpilot wrote:
Gasman wrote:
Is there now an argument to be made for the entire medium/long haul international fleet to be made up of 789s?

789s and 10s most definitely. If they get the performance they want from a 789 doing EWR then no need to go for a bigger aircraft type (A350/77X) the 78J can cover routes needing bigger capacity with less range.

In an interview following the announcement of the 77E replacement Luxon said specifically that the 78J wasn’t going to replace the 77Ws. He added that he expected a larger type – 77X or A350 ~ would be needed in future. This followed all the technical and commercial analysis that went into the 78J decision. Unless we know something that NZ management don’t then we have to reckon on a future buy of a type with more payload/range than the 787. Given the 78Js are mostly going to be used on Asian routes that shouldn’t be a surprise.
 
SurlyBonds
Posts: 391
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:04 pm

Gasman wrote:
Enough people have realised by now that you can travel to LHR on better hard products....


Who has the "better hard products"? I thought NZ was right up there with the ME3 carriers in terms of hard product.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1666
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:18 pm

tealnz wrote:
In an interview following the announcement of the 77E replacement Luxon said specifically that the 78J wasn’t going to replace the 77Ws

My interpretation of what he said is that you shouldn’t draw any conclusions about the 77W replacement from the 78J purchase. I don’t believe he specifically ruled out the 78J, but I’m open to correction.
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tealnz
Posts: 638
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:47 am

Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:12 pm

Luxon referred to the A350 and 77X as the future contenders to replace the 77W fleet. I dunno why there’s so much reluctance to take his comments at face value: he was a smart guy when he announced the 78J buy but shouldn’t be taken seriously when he says there will be a need for something more capable to replace the 77Ws? :roll:
 
NZ321
Posts: 1218
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:08 pm

SurlyBonds wrote:
Gasman wrote:
Enough people have realised by now that you can travel to LHR on better hard products....


Who has the "better hard products"? I thought NZ was right up there with the ME3 carriers in terms of hard product.


No. Not really. Where do you want to begin?
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ZK-NBT
Posts: 7500
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Re: Air New Zealand dropping LHR launch NYC

Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:32 pm

tealnz wrote:
Luxon referred to the A350 and 77X as the future contenders to replace the 77W fleet. I dunno why there’s so much reluctance to take his comments at face value: he was a smart guy when he announced the 78J buy but shouldn’t be taken seriously when he says there will be a need for something more capable to replace the 77Ws? :roll:


All he said was that the current 78J order wasn’t code to replace the 77W, no more no less, they may need something more capable, how about a more capable 78J? He’s no longer the CEO, and this game is about p2p and JV’s. An all 787 fleet surely.

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