CRJ5000
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Updated: NK Announces Upcoming Order of 100 Airbus A320neo Family Aircraft plus Purchase Options for a further 50

Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:59 pm

Sources telling me Spirit will place a large order after markets close today. Reuters now reporting as well.

https://news.google.com/articles/CBMihg ... id=US%3Aen
Last edited by SQ22 on Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
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Frontier14
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:09 pm

CRJ5000 wrote:
Sources telling me Spirit will place a large order after markets close today. Reuters now reporting as well.

https://news.google.com/articles/CBMihg ... id=US%3Aen


What is the advantage to announcing after the markets close? Why not get the stock bump during today's session?

Frontier 14
 
msycajun
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:18 pm

Frontier14 wrote:
CRJ5000 wrote:
Sources telling me Spirit will place a large order after markets close today. Reuters now reporting as well.

https://news.google.com/articles/CBMihg ... id=US%3Aen


What is the advantage to announcing after the markets close? Why not get the stock bump during today's session?

Frontier 14

Pretty sure the NYSE requires that major announcements be made after market hours.
 
FLLspotter747
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:18 pm

Hmmmm, my guess is some combo of A321NEO/LR/XLR. I doubt they would order any widebodies. 1 because they would have some ungodly dense configuration for it, and 2 what route would be able to sustain a widebody in that configuration in their route network?
 
tphuang
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:22 pm

Or this could be a220 order.
 
Beechtobus
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:38 pm

FLLspotter747 wrote:
Hmmmm, my guess is some combo of A321NEO/LR/XLR. I doubt they would order any widebodies. 1 because they would have some ungodly dense configuration for it, and 2 what route would be able to sustain a widebody in that configuration in their route network?


The article does specifically state single aisle, so no widebodies if the source is reliable. I’m guessing a mix of 320neos and and 321neo/LR(possibly XLR). I’m speculating that for cost advantage reasons, NK will remain single fleet type for the time being, so no A220s.
 
raylee67
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:01 pm

321XLR will allow Spirit to penetrate deeper into South America from FLL. Most likely there will be some of that in the mix.
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T4thH
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:07 pm

Beechtobus wrote:
FLLspotter747 wrote:
Hmmmm, my guess is some combo of A321NEO/LR/XLR. I doubt they would order any widebodies. 1 because they would have some ungodly dense configuration for it, and 2 what route would be able to sustain a widebody in that configuration in their route network?


The article does specifically state single aisle, so no widebodies if the source is reliable. I’m guessing a mix of 320neos and and 321neo/LR(possibly XLR). I’m speculating that for cost advantage reasons, NK will remain single fleet type for the time being, so no A220s.


They have already ordered 68 A320 Neo, around 13 of them are delivered. I also expect, they will order A321 Neo family members, some of them A321 LR and few XLR, perhaps 30 % of the A321 Neo order?
A220-300 order as replacement for the A319....possible, also I believe it will be less likely (but I will not exclude it).
More than 100....this is a really big number, to fill it with only A321 Neo family members....

Regarding widebodies; why they shall order them now? If (of course only IF) they will order some LR and XLR and will use them on long range routes; they will get them earliest in 2024/2025. Start a new long haul route with LR and XLR. After one or two years you will be safe and now, if the route is working and if you will be able to fly with a widebody on it. So than we will be in the years 2026/2027 earliest.
At that time, the secondary market will be full of B787 and A330,, just gone back with 10 or 12 years from airlines to the lessors.
So Spirit will be easily able to buy (or lease) still up to date young widebody jets who will be cheap as too much have been produced and too many will fill up the secondary market at the same time. And the B787 will not fly as freighter., it is a PAX jet, a conversion will be unlikely to impossible (composite fuselage).

Some long haul routes, prior tested with XLR/LR will also work with widebodies? You will need 5? Just go to the secondary market and buy them, half a year later, they will fly around with spirit colors, Half a year later, you need two more? There is still a secondary market, full with Dreamlines and A330s, parked somewhere in a desert and waiting for you. Buy them, train pilots and...
Last edited by T4thH on Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
klm617
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:09 pm

raylee67 wrote:
321XLR will allow Spirit to penetrate deeper into South America from FLL. Most likely there will be some of that in the mix.


Maybe they could use the A321XLR to start routes from Detroit to MAN/DUB/KEF and the like. They would do good in the summer.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:12 pm

tphuang wrote:
Or this could be a220 order.

I hope so But with the recent engine issues, I doubt the A220 is ordered.

That said, the costs of the A220-300 are attractive. I think there is a 30% chance of an order.

Lightsaber
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Dominion301
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:12 pm

Here comes the A220 order!...and probably some 321LR/XLRs.
 
WingsOfLove
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:17 pm

What are chances Airbus will expand production in the USA?
 
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American 767
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:18 pm

I think that their idea is to, eventually, base most of them out of their FLL hub and open new routes to South America. Of course that major order means also more domestic expansion. They want to make of FLL their main hub, they are rebuilding their new corporate headquarter in Fort Lauderdale.
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scbriml
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:40 pm

msycajun wrote:
Frontier14 wrote:
CRJ5000 wrote:
Sources telling me Spirit will place a large order after markets close today. Reuters now reporting as well.

https://news.google.com/articles/CBMihg ... id=US%3Aen


What is the advantage to announcing after the markets close? Why not get the stock bump during today's session?

Frontier 14

Pretty sure the NYSE requires that major announcements be made after market hours.


A pointless rule that's easy to get around by leaking the info.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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yyztpa2
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:48 pm

I wouldn't be surprised to see what Czech did but at a larger scale. Split the order between A321NEO, likely longer hall and the A223,.
 
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BN727227Ultra
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:50 pm

scbriml wrote:
msycajun wrote:
Frontier14 wrote:

What is the advantage to announcing after the markets close? Why not get the stock bump during today's session?

Frontier 14

Pretty sure the NYSE requires that major announcements be made after market hours.


A pointless rule that's easy to get around by leaking the info.


Especially since trading now goes on around the clock. 4:01 PM ET is not sacrosanct any more.
 
behramjee
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:19 pm

Hopefully a mixture of A321Neos, A321Neo-LRs and A223s. After standard discounting, you can almost get 5 A223s for the price of 3 A321Neo-LRs especially if you place a large bulk order for the A223.

Spirit does not need the XLR as the A321Neo-LR is more than adequate for routes under 8 hours flying time from Florida.

If Spirit are a bit worried on the A223 engine issues of last week at LX, then they could instead place a large A321neo order + initially a LOI/MOU for bulk A223s subject to what their legal team feels is adequate.

Over the long term though the cost savings they will gain flying the A223 over the A320Neo + lower capital costs are quite significant and cannot be ignored.
 
FWAERJ
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:16 pm

WingsOfLove wrote:
What are chances Airbus will expand production in the USA?


They already are with the addition of A220-300 production in Mobile. First planes are being built as I speak for DL, and new jobs are being added.

Regarding the A320 family: Even if the 10% WTO order tariffs are temporary, there’s still significant room for higher production rates for A320/A321 at Mobile. The plant is hardly maxed out, and Airbus owns more land for additional production capacity as well, whether for A220 or A320 family aircraft. But I’m sure Airbus will prioritize Mobile-made A320 family aircraft to reduce tariff exposure to customers.

A220s, whether made in in Mobile or Montreal, are always exempt from the planned 10% tariffs on EU-made Airbus products (no A220s are made in the EU). And the A220 is rumored to be part of the order - Airbus can do mixed sourcing of the A220 from both plants tariff-free.
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jbs2886
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:38 pm

BN727227Ultra wrote:
scbriml wrote:
msycajun wrote:
Pretty sure the NYSE requires that major announcements be made after market hours.


A pointless rule that's easy to get around by leaking the info.


Especially since trading now goes on around the clock. 4:01 PM ET is not sacrosanct any more.


Well Spirit's listing is on the NYSE, which isn't open for trading then. Sure, you can queue a buy/sell, but it doesn't process until the market opens.
 
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BN727227Ultra
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:09 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
BN727227Ultra wrote:
scbriml wrote:

A pointless rule that's easy to get around by leaking the info.


Especially since trading now goes on around the clock. 4:01 PM ET is not sacrosanct any more.


Well Spirit's listing is on the NYSE, which isn't open for trading then. Sure, you can queue a buy/sell, but it doesn't process until the market opens.


I left that part of the industry in 2015, but for at least five years before that, I could trade anything in the pre- and post-market. At least an hour before and after, and that was ten years ago. For sure, you could only place limit orders because the bid/ask was so small, but if you really wanted out of an odd lot and were willing to leave a few pennies/share on the table, you might get a fill.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:13 pm

Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
ShamrockBoi330
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:15 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
http://ir.spirit.com/file/Index?KeyFile=400583482

100 new Airbus


Plus purchase options for a further 50!

Interesting to see the a319NEO in the mix!
Last edited by ShamrockBoi330 on Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Polot
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:16 pm

Looks like they decided fleet commonality trumped the A223/Embraer E2.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:28 pm

Sad they didn't go for the E2s, but hoping they have some of the XLRs as options! I for one am happy to see the A319NEO there.
Last edited by gatibosgru on Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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tomcat
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:31 pm

Looks like the new US tariffs on Airbus are not such a big deterrent. At least at the current EURUSD exchange rate.
 
ericm2031
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:33 pm

Interesting that they decided on the A319NEO. Guess the advantages of a common fleet type might have beat out adding the A220...for the time being.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:37 pm

tomcat wrote:
Looks like the new US tariffs on Airbus are not such a big deterrent. At least at the current EURUSD exchange rate.


Why wouldn't you expect an LCC with nothing but Airbus A32X to order more Airbus? Let's see how many they take from Hamburg (tariffed) vs. Mobile (tariff-free).
 
ShamrockBoi330
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:39 pm

tomcat wrote:
Looks like the new US tariffs on Airbus are not such a big deterrent. At least at the current EURUSD exchange rate.


Well, there's no tariffs on those coming from Alabama, and one could assume its a safe bet the tariffs issue will have rectified itself by the time the rest become deliverable!
 
oschkosch
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:42 pm

Wow! Congratulations to Spirit and Airbus! Nice big order plus options :)

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gatibosgru
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:42 pm

Between the new HQ and this order it's a good PR week for NK.
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Delta28L
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:50 pm

Nice boost to the Alabama FAL if they take all 100 from Alabama.
 
tomcat
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:52 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
tomcat wrote:
Looks like the new US tariffs on Airbus are not such a big deterrent. At least at the current EURUSD exchange rate.


Why wouldn't you expect an LCC with nothing but Airbus A32X to order more Airbus? Let's see how many they take from Hamburg (tariffed) vs. Mobile (tariff-free).


Even with an all A32X fleet, any airline would only be ready to pay this much to expand its fleet with more A32X. At least this order provides some evidences that the US tarifs haven't prevented this deal. Tariff-free Mobile surely helps within the limits of its capacity.
 
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res77W
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:07 pm

Great to see some interest in the A319neo.

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UPNYGuy
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:09 pm

Delta28L wrote:
Nice boost to the Alabama FAL if they take all 100 from Alabama.


The NK twitter feed says more than 100 NEO family
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:14 pm

raylee67 wrote:
321XLR will allow Spirit to penetrate deeper into South America from FLL. Most likely there will be some of that in the mix.


Latin America has been very good to most of the airlines in the USA with some record profits. There would be no reason for Spirit to be the first USA LCC to strt ordering widebodies and change their strategy at this point. The XLR should handle some real world routes of 4000 nmi.

South America
FLL LIM 2,282 nm (currently longest route for Spirit)
FLL GRU 3,547 nm
FLL SCL 3,594 nm
FLL EZE 3,842 nm

Western Europe
FLL LIS 3,597 nm
FLL DUB 3,602 nm
FLL MAD 3,829 nm
FLL CDG 3,970 nm
 
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ODwyerPW
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:22 pm

Spirit is doing nice stuff lately... revamp of the interiors, new headquarters being constructed and now this large NEO order (yeah I know it's an MOU, but we are all pretty sure it will be firmed!).

Congradulations to Airbus and Spirit. And yes, I too hope they will be built in Alabama, though I thought only A321NEOs are being produced there (and of course I am often very wrong... so correct me if I am...)
learning never stops.
 
N292UX
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:29 pm

I doubt NK will be going to Europe, even with A321XLRs. I can certainly see them going deeper into South America and growing their presence around there, though.
 
Jack
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:30 pm

Interesting in respect of the A319NEO part. I wonder if there is life in the frame yet given the China demand as well.

In answer to ODwyerPW the A320 and A321 have so far been produced in Alabama. Could this be a land grab for slots on the production line in case of tariffs?
 
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ODwyerPW
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:46 pm

Jack wrote:
Interesting in respect of the A319NEO part. I wonder if there is life in the frame yet given the China demand as well.
In answer to ODwyerPW the A320 and A321 have so far been produced in Alabama. Could this be a land grab for slots on the production line in case of tariffs?


Thanks Jack! Airbus would certainly be score big if they produced the A319NEO in Alabama too. Imagine that potentially a single 150 plane order (order + options) by a foreign manufacturer being completely fulfilled with deliveries produced in the USA just two states over from that other domestic manufacturer's newest site.... bypassing all tariffs. I did not see Airbus responding to the tariff threat so quickly and completely... just wow. impressive maneuvering.
learning never stops.
 
tphuang
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:49 pm

I'm surprised they ordered A319NEO and not A220. A220-300 CASM on isolated basis is lower than even A320NEO. I guess the additional complexity is just not worth it.

Really surprised by the huge order. That's a lot of growth if they are taking 48 NEOs in 2020 and 2021 and not retiring any. There is going to be a lot of discomfort from the big 4 (especially WN) if they are growing that much.
 
m007j
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:03 pm

BN727227Ultra wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
BN727227Ultra wrote:

Especially since trading now goes on around the clock. 4:01 PM ET is not sacrosanct any more.


Well Spirit's listing is on the NYSE, which isn't open for trading then. Sure, you can queue a buy/sell, but it doesn't process until the market opens.


I left that part of the industry in 2015, but for at least five years before that, I could trade anything in the pre- and post-market. At least an hour before and after, and that was ten years ago. For sure, you could only place limit orders because the bid/ask was so small, but if you really wanted out of an odd lot and were willing to leave a few pennies/share on the table, you might get a fill.


You can still trade after-hours until 8pm Eastern for NYSE-listed stocks. However, market makers that try to stabilize the movement of a stock's price by offering to match each side of a buy/sell transaction generally do not trade after 4pm. Worse still for individual investors, a lot of institutional investors trade after hours, which limit the amount of shares that are in play that you can buy and sell individually.

What you really get out of releasing this kind of info after 4pm is the trading volume, which inherently can cause a lot of volatility, which companies do not want. Yes, the absence of market makers after hours can cause large swings in the price that a holding last traded at, but that risk is offset by the much lower volume.

My firm only accepts limit orders from individual clients because the bid/ask spread gets rather ridiculous for stocks (have seen spreads in the triple digits in premarket trading before, granted it was 7am) but the rules are up to each broker.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:08 pm

I'm mildly surprised at the A319 being involved. But I would have been more surprised at the A220 and breaking up fleet commonality. To me NK was one of the few buyers that would still be interested in the A319. Good score for Airbus. That's some aggressive growth coming for NK.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:11 pm

Yawn. Coulda been exciting. Isn't.
 
aryonoco
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:29 pm

A319 NEO over A223? Did not see that coming.

Fleet commonality, sure, but...
 
YouGeeElWhy
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:38 pm

AA and DL/LATAM must pleased they did not order the XLR
 
umichman
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:42 pm

msycajun wrote:
Pretty sure the NYSE requires that major announcements be made after market hours.


No such regs. They are only required to give 10 minutes notice to Exchange if they release material news during trading hours and if releasing news after hours, wait until either official closing price has been posted or 15 minutes after close.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:49 pm

I have to say that I think Spirit's A321s look really good.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
Bricktop
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:55 pm

scbriml wrote:
I have to say that I think Spirit's A321s look really good.

Ever been in one?

I have. :white:
 
juliuswong
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:00 pm

Nice win for Airbus and Spirit! Congratulation is in order.

Glad to see A319neo getting some love. Now this order will put to rest whether A319neo will be delivered. Potentially killing thousands of thread in future "Why Airbus developed A319neo?" "Why so few A319neo made? ".....
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Bricktop
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Re: Spirit Airlines to announce major Airbus order

Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:00 pm

As to the breakdown, nice to see some A319s in there.

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