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The787Driver
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Etihad and First Class

Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:52 pm

In another move of cost cutting for the airline, Etihad will remove first class from the “Majority” of its fleet from 2022. Only the A380 will remain with first class from this date on. Newer 777’s, from reg -ETK, will be reconfigured over the coming years with the new and improved business studio.

Changing times in the industry, first class is finally and inevitably, becoming obsolete.

T787D
 
MoonC
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:18 pm

I assume that's the reason why no other 787s recieved a First class cabin besides the first 5 x -9s. A6-BLA to -BLE. But First does apparently have its place in the industry. Geneva for example is served only by these 5 x 787s, but because they are apparently undergoing maintenance in AUH, instead of sending a Business and Economy only equipped 787s, Etihad reactivated their very last A333, A6-AFA, solely for use on this particular route. Exactly because it is equipped with a First!
 
ethernal
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:08 am

The787Driver wrote:
Changing times in the industry, first class is finally and inevitably, becoming obsolete.


First class isn't dead - it's booming more than ever. It's just now called Business Class. But don't worry - Business Class is still here, it's just now called Premium Economy.

At some point the cycle will repeat as more and more corporate travel policies restrict the use of business class. I give it about 15-20 years before Premium Economy starts having lie-flats (I'm only half joking about this).

Incidentally, Coach doesn't exist anymore on many airlines - instead most airlines have introduced Torture Class.
 
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ojjunior
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:52 am

ethernal wrote:
Incidentally, Coach doesn't exist anymore on many airlines - instead most airlines have introduced Torture Class.


Indeed. And for that there's a whole family of modern airliners out there called Crampliner.
 
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SQ789
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:44 am

The787Driver wrote:
In another move of cost cutting for the airline, Etihad will remove first class from the “Majority” of its fleet from 2022. Only the A380 will remain with first class from this date on. Newer 777’s, from reg -ETK, will be reconfigured over the coming years with the new and improved business studio.

Changing times in the industry, first class is finally and inevitably, becoming obsolete.

T787D

Do you have the source stating that they are removing First Class on remaining planes except A380 by 2022?
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
 
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sergegva
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:14 am

MoonC wrote:
Geneva for example is served only by these 5 x 787s, but because they are apparently undergoing maintenance in AUH, instead of sending a Business and Economy only equipped 787s, Etihad reactivated their very last A333, A6-AFA, solely for use on this particular route. Exactly because it is equipped with a First!


According to dpts.org, tomorrow October 26th will be the last chance to spot this rare bird at Geneva.
 
waly777
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:53 am

The787Driver wrote:
In another move of cost cutting for the airline, Etihad will remove first class from the “Majority” of its fleet from 2022. Only the A380 will remain with first class from this date on. Newer 777’s, from reg -ETK, will be reconfigured over the coming years with the new and improved business studio.

Changing times in the industry, first class is finally and inevitably, becoming obsolete.

T787D


Any sources? It is a logical move however.
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Arion640
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:19 am

Aren’t the 789 F suites stupidly heavy?
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waly777
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:33 am

Arion640 wrote:
Aren’t the 789 F suites stupidly heavy?


Yea, the impact on payload/range is certainly interesting.
The test of first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold 2 opposed ideas in the mind concurrently, and still function
 
cpd
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:10 am

ethernal wrote:
The787Driver wrote:
Changing times in the industry, first class is finally and inevitably, becoming obsolete.


First class isn't dead - it's booming more than ever. It's just now called Business Class. But don't worry - Business Class is still here, it's just now called Premium Economy.

At some point the cycle will repeat as more and more corporate travel policies restrict the use of business class. I give it about 15-20 years before Premium Economy starts having lie-flats (I'm only half joking about this).

Incidentally, Coach doesn't exist anymore on many airlines - instead most airlines have introduced Torture Class.


Business and First are massively different. Last time I flew First on EK it was miles ahead of J in comfort, space and every other way. J seemed uncomfortable in comparison.
 
aviationaware
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:16 am

cpd wrote:
Business and First are massively different. Last time I flew First on EK it was miles ahead of J in comfort, space and every other way. J seemed uncomfortable in comparison.


I guess his point was that most new Business Class seats these days are miles ahead of where First Class seats were not 15 years ago. Which is certainly true.
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:19 am

cpd wrote:
ethernal wrote:
The787Driver wrote:
Changing times in the industry, first class is finally and inevitably, becoming obsolete.


First class isn't dead - it's booming more than ever. It's just now called Business Class. But don't worry - Business Class is still here, it's just now called Premium Economy.

At some point the cycle will repeat as more and more corporate travel policies restrict the use of business class. I give it about 15-20 years before Premium Economy starts having lie-flats (I'm only half joking about this).

Incidentally, Coach doesn't exist anymore on many airlines - instead most airlines have introduced Torture Class.


Business and First are massively different. Last time I flew First on EK it was miles ahead of J in comfort, space and every other way. J seemed uncomfortable in comparison.


EK J class hard product is mediocre when compared to other 2ME/US3
 
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The787Driver
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:45 am

waly777 wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Aren’t the 789 F suites stupidly heavy?


Yea, the impact on payload/range is certainly interesting.


Yes, so heavy Infact that a forward crew rest was not able to be fitted.

OMAA
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:24 am

Business jets have taken the top of the market. For those willing to pay for the top level of service, privacy and speed are worth it to a certain market.
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lhrsfosyd91
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:43 am

If they want to be a boutique airline and have a USP, time to introduce world's best premium economy product.
 
AEROFAN
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:45 am

The787Driver wrote:
In another move of cost cutting for the airline, Etihad will remove first class from the “Majority” of its fleet from 2022. Only the A380 will remain with first class from this date on. Newer 777’s, from reg -ETK, will be reconfigured over the coming years with the new and improved business studio.

Changing times in the industry, first class is finally and inevitably, becoming obsolete.

T787D


What will happen to that idiotic residence? Will that disappear as well?
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:59 am

Seems like this will happen to lots of airlines. I did like the EY business product (studio) and it was good for sleeping (felt more integrated than the 777 product) but as much as it was good as a bed it wasn't as good as QR with the topper on. The big issue for me (and I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere) is that it feels like you are nearly sitting on the floor in the business studio. If EY add a door to the business studio then things change a lot with regards to first.

Fred
Image
 
ethernal
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:27 am

aviationaware wrote:
cpd wrote:
Business and First are massively different. Last time I flew First on EK it was miles ahead of J in comfort, space and every other way. J seemed uncomfortable in comparison.


I guess his point was that most new Business Class seats these days are miles ahead of where First Class seats were not 15 years ago. Which is certainly true.


Yes. Of course First Class has had to further differentiate relative to business class (leading to insanely opulent products like Residences). But it is absolutely no exaggeration to say that Premium Economy is what Business Class was 20 years ago, and Business Class is what First Class was 20 years ago (and superior in many ways to what it was 30 years ago - lie-flats were rare in International First until the mid/late 90's).

Premium Economy today versus Business Class of the 90's
1990's business class on Delta
Image

2019 Premium Economy on Delta
Image

Virtually indistinguishable (maybe 90's business class had a few extra inches of recline).

And first class?
A British Airlines first class cabin style launched around 1995 (note this was a pretty leading product for the era)
Image

Modern business class on Ethiad...
Image

Basically the same product - the BA IFC product may have a bit more width, especially around the legs since you aren't going into the next seat - but that's it (and note that the cabin on the BA cabin is narrower than the one above).

And.. if you go back 30 years.. this is what internatioanl first looked like:
Image

A better thread title is "Ethiad joins the rest of the industry re-branding its first class cabin as Business Class." ;)
 
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InnsbruckFlyer
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:29 am

chunhimlai wrote:
cpd wrote:
ethernal wrote:

First class isn't dead - it's booming more than ever. It's just now called Business Class. But don't worry - Business Class is still here, it's just now called Premium Economy.

At some point the cycle will repeat as more and more corporate travel policies restrict the use of business class. I give it about 15-20 years before Premium Economy starts having lie-flats (I'm only half joking about this).

Incidentally, Coach doesn't exist anymore on many airlines - instead most airlines have introduced Torture Class.


Business and First are massively different. Last time I flew First on EK it was miles ahead of J in comfort, space and every other way. J seemed uncomfortable in comparison.


EK J class hard product is mediocre when compared to other 2ME/US3


I’d beg to differ. Sure, QSuites is much better, but QR’s other J isn’t as good. And EK J is a disgrace, except for the A380’s J.

Last flown aircraft: A320 D-AIPS < A319 OE-LDD < A320 D-AIQA < DH8D OE-LGO < A320 HA-LWC < A320 HA-LWV < A320 SX-DVT < A320 SX-DVK < B733 LZ-BVU < E190 LZ-SOF < A320 D-AIUQ < DH8D OE-LGJ < A321 D-AIRN < A319 LZ-FBB
 
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The787Driver
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:02 pm

AEROFAN wrote:
The787Driver wrote:
In another move of cost cutting for the airline, Etihad will remove first class from the “Majority” of its fleet from 2022. Only the A380 will remain with first class from this date on. Newer 777’s, from reg -ETK, will be reconfigured over the coming years with the new and improved business studio.

Changing times in the industry, first class is finally and inevitably, becoming obsolete.

T787D


What will happen to that idiotic residence? Will that disappear as well?



That will remain on the A380, even tho it's not a huge attraction to many, it usually sells. The problem with it, is there is nothing on the market to compare it too.

T787D
 
AlexBrewster03
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:04 pm

InnsbruckFlyer wrote:
chunhimlai wrote:
cpd wrote:

Business and First are massively different. Last time I flew First on EK it was miles ahead of J in comfort, space and every other way. J seemed uncomfortable in comparison.


EK J class hard product is mediocre when compared to other 2ME/US3


I’d beg to differ. Sure, QSuites is much better, but QR’s other J isn’t as good. And EK J is a disgrace, except for the A380’s J.

God EK should be embarrassed with their hard product in J on the 777s.
 
A388
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:22 pm

ethernal wrote:
Incidentally, Coach doesn't exist anymore on many airlines - instead most airlines have introduced Torture Class.


HAHAHAHA, good one and absolutely true. It's the sad reality we live in nowadays :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

A388
 
VTCIE
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:53 pm

AlexBrewster03 wrote:
InnsbruckFlyer wrote:
chunhimlai wrote:

EK J class hard product is mediocre when compared to other 2ME/US3

I’d beg to differ. Sure, QSuites is much better, but QR’s other J isn’t as good. And EK J is a disgrace, except for the A380’s J.

God EK should be embarrassed with their hard product in J on the 777s.

QR and the much smaller EY are eliminating F—or, precisely, confining F to the A380s—to focus their attention on J. The QR Qsuite is objectively the world’s best J class by many miles, partly because QR has put so much effort in J that it does not care about its A380 F product.

EY is following a similar path. With the exception of its legendary A380 Residence and Apartments, which are the pride and joy of an otherwise gasping-for-breath airline, it has decided to cut F from its fleet.

EK, on the other hand, is all about F and the A380 bar/shower suites experience, as well as the new 777 F product. EK places so much importance on F that it’s decided to hand J passengers the short end of the stick with a disgraceful 7-abreast J product. EY until now followed an F-first strategy, like EK, but it is now following QR’s J-first strategy instead.
 
waly777
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:00 pm

AEROFAN wrote:
The787Driver wrote:
In another move of cost cutting for the airline, Etihad will remove first class from the “Majority” of its fleet from 2022. Only the A380 will remain with first class from this date on. Newer 777’s, from reg -ETK, will be reconfigured over the coming years with the new and improved business studio.

Changing times in the industry, first class is finally and inevitably, becoming obsolete.

T787D


What will happen to that idiotic residence? Will that disappear as well?


It might surprise you that it does sell, especially during the busy seasons.
The test of first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold 2 opposed ideas in the mind concurrently, and still function
 
BUFJACK10
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:10 pm

Actually it’s reminiscent of the 90’s when many airlines upgraded international business class and eliminated first. Continental introduced Business First, and many European carriers followed suit, KLM is an example. I believe airlines like BA and AF retained first. First definitely has a place, but the upgrade to business class covers hundreds of routes where First makes no sense.
AA AK AL AQ AS B6 CO DL EA FL F9 HP KN NY MO NW PA PE PI RC QX TW UA UR US WN AF AN AO CS IB OA TR VS
A300 A319 A320 BAE146 BAC111 DC8 DC9 DC10 MD80 707 717 727 737 747 757 767 777 787 L10 F27 F28 F100 ERJ CRJ SE-210 SSC B1900 ATR42 ATR72 DH8 E120 SWM
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:19 pm

VTCIE wrote:
AlexBrewster03 wrote:
InnsbruckFlyer wrote:
I’d beg to differ. Sure, QSuites is much better, but QR’s other J isn’t as good. And EK J is a disgrace, except for the A380’s J.

God EK should be embarrassed with their hard product in J on the 777s.

QR and the much smaller EY are eliminating F—or, precisely, confining F to the A380s—to focus their attention on J. The QR Qsuite is objectively the world’s best J class by many miles, partly because QR has put so much effort in J that it does not care about its A380 F product.

EY is following a similar path. With the exception of its legendary A380 Residence and Apartments, which are the pride and joy of an otherwise gasping-for-breath airline, it has decided to cut F from its fleet.

EK, on the other hand, is all about F and the A380 bar/shower suites experience, as well as the new 777 F product. EK places so much importance on F that it’s decided to hand J passengers the short end of the stick with a disgraceful 7-abreast J product. EY until now followed an F-first strategy, like EK, but it is now following QR’s J-first strategy instead.


I would phrase it differently. EK is pursuing the value J market. The higher density and lighter seats are to be good enough to pursue corporate contracts. So far, it has worked extremely well generating revenue.

EK this has a lower bar for F. However, not all markets support F. Personally, the ME3 have it tougher as ET and TK are now competing mega hubs.

Lightsaber
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ethernal
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:21 pm

waly777 wrote:
AEROFAN wrote:
The787Driver wrote:
In another move of cost cutting for the airline, Etihad will remove first class from the “Majority” of its fleet from 2022. Only the A380 will remain with first class from this date on. Newer 777’s, from reg -ETK, will be reconfigured over the coming years with the new and improved business studio.

Changing times in the industry, first class is finally and inevitably, becoming obsolete.

T787D


What will happen to that idiotic residence? Will that disappear as well?


It might surprise you that it does sell, especially during the busy seasons.


Pretty much any airline can fill / sell a seat. It's a question of yield. And $9K round trip on 14 hour flights (e.g., DOH-NYC) almost certainly doesn't cover the cost to serve and maintain - especially when the seats still fly empty most of the time (or end up fulled with op-ups from J). It's a pure halo/prestige product of questionable value. Because the Business class cabin (f.k.a. First Class) has become so good, first class has to compete from above with private jets and below with business class cabins. It's a tiny niche.

The only reason it is being retained on the A380 is because they likely don't want to invest in a cabin refurb for those birds - and that the birds likely have more capacity than needed on most routes, so the Residences essentially act as filler.
 
AEROFAN
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:51 am

waly777 wrote:
AEROFAN wrote:
The787Driver wrote:
In another move of cost cutting for the airline, Etihad will remove first class from the “Majority” of its fleet from 2022. Only the A380 will remain with first class from this date on. Newer 777’s, from reg -ETK, will be reconfigured over the coming years with the new and improved business studio.

Changing times in the industry, first class is finally and inevitably, becoming obsolete.

T787D


What will happen to that idiotic residence? Will that disappear as well?


It might surprise you that it does sell, especially during the busy seasons.


That is indeed a surprise.
 
waly777
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:09 am

ethernal wrote:
waly777 wrote:
AEROFAN wrote:

What will happen to that idiotic residence? Will that disappear as well?


It might surprise you that it does sell, especially during the busy seasons.


Pretty much any airline can fill / sell a seat. It's a question of yield. And $9K round trip on 14 hour flights (e.g., DOH-NYC) almost certainly doesn't cover the cost to serve and maintain - especially when the seats still fly empty most of the time (or end up fulled with op-ups from J). It's a pure halo/prestige product of questionable value. Because the Business class cabin (f.k.a. First Class) has become so good, first class has to compete from above with private jets and below with business class cabins. It's a tiny niche.

The only reason it is being retained on the A380 is because they likely don't want to invest in a cabin refurb for those birds - and that the birds likely have more capacity than needed on most routes, so the Residences essentially act as filler.


Firstly, you do realise the residence utilises what is generally useless space on the 380 right? Secondly yield is hardly an issue on the residence....

I would add that the OP did not provide a source and thus this is not fact but speculation/rumour. As far as I'm aware, the only planned reconfig being done across the widebody fleet is for extra legroom seats in the Y cabin.

Finally.. EY has a fleet of 90+ and F is on 20 AC. (10 A380, 5 789 and 5 77W) which serve select markets with F demand.
The test of first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold 2 opposed ideas in the mind concurrently, and still function
 
ethernal
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:44 pm

waly777 wrote:
ethernal wrote:
waly777 wrote:

It might surprise you that it does sell, especially during the busy seasons.


Pretty much any airline can fill / sell a seat. It's a question of yield. And $9K round trip on 14 hour flights (e.g., DOH-NYC) almost certainly doesn't cover the cost to serve and maintain - especially when the seats still fly empty most of the time (or end up fulled with op-ups from J). It's a pure halo/prestige product of questionable value. Because the Business class cabin (f.k.a. First Class) has become so good, first class has to compete from above with private jets and below with business class cabins. It's a tiny niche.

The only reason it is being retained on the A380 is because they likely don't want to invest in a cabin refurb for those birds - and that the birds likely have more capacity than needed on most routes, so the Residences essentially act as filler.


Firstly, you do realise the residence utilises what is generally useless space on the 380 right?


Is that not what I said? I said the planes have too much capacity, so the Residences act as a filler for space that they would have trouble filling with more J or Y seats.

Secondly yield is hardly an issue on the residence....


You're joking right? Everything has a yield curve, including International First Class and whatever category the Residences is. I can book a last minute ticket for this upcoming week round trip on the residence on SYD-JFK for $22000 per passenger for two passengers for any day next week with a return on the following week with only a few days unavailable. This means that - even a week before departure - there is an empty Residence flying on not one but two premier routes (SYD-AUH and AUH-JFK) on most days and they're willing to sell it for garbage yield for essentially a walk-up fare (it's the same fare throughout the year).

$22K may sound like a lot, but it's a very poor price for a product that takes up so much floor space and sits empty on at least 75% of their flights (based on availability on SYD-AUH and AUH-JFK I see in the upcoming weeks) given the investment required to design them, gain regulatory approval for, build it, maintain, and staff. I have to advertise and market it, build a booking capability for it, and then curate (menu, catering supply chain) it. I have to give special training to my flight attendants for it. All of this costs a lot of money - much of it fixed - with very little return given that it is spread out across a grand total of 10 planes.

Similarly, looking at their international first class - it's very low priced in context of what it is. $10K with wide open availability on the same SYD-AUH-JFK route. Nearly 60 hours in the air taking up one of those seats is less than $160 per hour of flying. Obviously not comparable as it's a different environment, competitive context, and cost structure, but it is not rare for me to pay a higher cost per hour in the air for domestic economy seats than that. Typical J yield on NYC-Europe - which is highly competitive with quite depressed J fares relative to most markets - is on the order of $3-4K round trip for 7 hour flights. Where I fly out of, I typically pay $6-8K even with corporate discounts for short (8-9 hour) TATLs. That is good yield.

Just because something is expensive in absolute terms doesn't mean that it is good yield. Ethiad's J product is probably the best benchmark: the same SYD-JFK route in their J product is typically $7K - which given the flight duration is actually not a bad price at all. Do you really believe that the First class seat - which takes nearly twice as much floor space, has higher catering costs and staffing costs per seat, and is meant to be a highly differentiated offering - should be less than 50% more expensive than the J seats?
 
waly777
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Sun Oct 27, 2019 5:26 am

ethernal wrote:
waly777 wrote:
ethernal wrote:

Pretty much any airline can fill / sell a seat. It's a question of yield. And $9K round trip on 14 hour flights (e.g., DOH-NYC) almost certainly doesn't cover the cost to serve and maintain - especially when the seats still fly empty most of the time (or end up fulled with op-ups from J). It's a pure halo/prestige product of questionable value. Because the Business class cabin (f.k.a. First Class) has become so good, first class has to compete from above with private jets and below with business class cabins. It's a tiny niche.

The only reason it is being retained on the A380 is because they likely don't want to invest in a cabin refurb for those birds - and that the birds likely have more capacity than needed on most routes, so the Residences essentially act as filler.


Firstly, you do realise the residence utilises what is generally useless space on the 380 right?


Is that not what I said? I said the planes have too much capacity, so the Residences act as a filler for space that they would have trouble filling with more J or Y seats.

Secondly yield is hardly an issue on the residence....


You're joking right? Everything has a yield curve, including International First Class and whatever category the Residences is. I can book a last minute ticket for this upcoming week round trip on the residence on SYD-JFK for $22000 per passenger for two passengers for any day next week with a return on the following week with only a few days unavailable. This means that - even a week before departure - there is an empty Residence flying on not one but two premier routes (SYD-AUH and AUH-JFK) on most days and they're willing to sell it for garbage yield for essentially a walk-up fare (it's the same fare throughout the year).

$22K may sound like a lot, but it's a very poor price for a product that takes up so much floor space and sits empty on at least 75% of their flights (based on availability on SYD-AUH and AUH-JFK I see in the upcoming weeks) given the investment required to design them, gain regulatory approval for, build it, maintain, and staff. I have to advertise and market it, build a booking capability for it, and then curate (menu, catering supply chain) it. I have to give special training to my flight attendants for it. All of this costs a lot of money - much of it fixed - with very little return given that it is spread out across a grand total of 10 planes.

Similarly, looking at their international first class - it's very low priced in context of what it is. $10K with wide open availability on the same SYD-AUH-JFK route. Nearly 60 hours in the air taking up one of those seats is less than $160 per hour of flying. Obviously not comparable as it's a different environment, competitive context, and cost structure, but it is not rare for me to pay a higher cost per hour in the air for domestic economy seats than that. Typical J yield on NYC-Europe - which is highly competitive with quite depressed J fares relative to most markets - is on the order of $3-4K round trip for 7 hour flights. Where I fly out of, I typically pay $6-8K even with corporate discounts for short (8-9 hour) TATLs. That is good yield.

Just because something is expensive in absolute terms doesn't mean that it is good yield. Ethiad's J product is probably the best benchmark: the same SYD-JFK route in their J product is typically $7K - which given the flight duration is actually not a bad price at all. Do you really believe that the First class seat - which takes nearly twice as much floor space, has higher catering costs and staffing costs per seat, and is meant to be a highly differentiated offering - should be less than 50% more expensive than the J seats?


:? all of this over an unconfirmed rumour and numbers you don't have access to (re-yield)? Again, yield is not an issue on the 380. The seat takes up the space of one F seat, whilst the bedroom occupies a position where a seat can't fit. Staffing for the residence is variable depending on it's occupancy. I.e. butler is not onboard if the residence is not occupied.

Yield is not to be looked @ independently, you have to balance it out with volume, overall revenue and thus profitability. You can price a route for high yield and have 20% LF, thus poor revenue and thus a loss. Pricing is not done independently, there is competition and well as benchmark fares on what pax are willing/able to pay dependent on the market profile.
Secondly, i imagine you understand seasonality... we are in low season, which will reflect generally lower fares. Then of course RBD structure with varying prices by OD & POS and/or POC concepts depending on which version the airline uses.

Its apples and oranges comparing transatlantic to other regions, the demand curve per cabin varies greatly per route. Transatlantic, especially London to JFK probably the highest premium demand of any route in the world. :roll: of course you can fly higher prices within the US domestically, there is an oligopoly... US domestic yields are the highest in the world, more than twice the global average... congratulations on paying more I guess :duck:

Again, not sure what all of the above is about as my original comment was that the residence does sell well especially during the peak seasons.
The test of first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold 2 opposed ideas in the mind concurrently, and still function
 
aviationaware
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Re: Etihad and First Class

Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:30 am

waly777 wrote:

Again, not sure what all of the above is about as my original comment was that the residence does sell well especially during the peak seasons.


Clearly not. A quick search on the booking engine may be anecdotal evidence, but it's quite telling nevertheless. A poor understanding of what yield is does not mean that his point isn't valid. If Etihad's premium cabins were selling like hot cake the airline wouldn't be back to the wall financially. It's not just the impairment losses that have ruined Etihad.

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