vulindlela744
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Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:18 am

The CEO of Southwest was given the green light by the Board of Directors of Southwest to look at other aircraft as the MAX grounding drags on. Article from today’s Chicago Tribune https://www.chicagotribune.com/business ... utType=amp
 
bennett123
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:23 am

Not available in Europe.

Any indication of the types that they are thinking of?.
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:26 am

Obviously the Airbus A220-300 and pretty sure that Airbus would even allow them to convert to a - 500 once launched.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:29 am

You can't help thinking this is more an effort to ramp up the pressure on Boeing to get MAX sorted sooner rather than later. I still can't imagine them moving away from their all-737 fleet.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
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SierraPacific
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:36 am

Classic corporate way to ask Boeing for a sweet deal on some new jets. There is no better way to ask for a gigantic discount than threatening to buy someone else's product after being a loyal customer for 40 years.
 
DarthLobster
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:42 am

FFS. By the time the wings would be attached to the first fuselage barrel of whatever, they'll be 100+ richer in MAXes. This is just WN waving their corporate sausage at Boeing and demanding freebies.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:47 am

Pretty-ironic insofar as the hole MCAS debacle is largely the result of WN waving its sausage at Boeing and demanding that there be no need for simulator differences training on the MAX. Admittedly, it is on Boeing that they made that a mission to the exclusion of rationality, and then half-assed the already-approved system that they co-opted to accomplish that mission. Deadly combination of pressure to git 'er done and a demanding requirement. Silicon Valley mentality infecting the engineering corps: we'll give them something serviceable and fix it later.
 
DarthLobster
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:50 am

wjcandee wrote:
Deadly combination of pressure to git 'er done and a demanding requirement. Silicon Valley mentality infecting the engineering corps: we'll give them something serviceable and fix it later.


A tactic "perfected" by another giant Washington-based company, one which hasn't put out a decent operating system in over a decade thanks to that mentality...
 
d8s
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:56 am

vulindlela744 wrote:
The CEO of Southwest was given the green light by the Board of Directors of Southwest to look at other aircraft as the MAX grounding drags on. Article from today’s Chicago Tribune https://www.chicagotribune.com/business ... utType=amp


Why haven't they brought some of the 737 classics out of the desert? I understand they can't fly the classic, NG, and Max at the same time but if no Max are flying it shouldn't be an issue.
 
alyusuph
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:08 am

Didn't they also contribute to the ongoing 737 grandfathering clauses which have hamstrung the AC?, This should be a big lesson to Boeing and Airbus:
I am not an Airbus or Boeing fan, just an aircraft fan
 
kabq737
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:16 am

d8s wrote:
vulindlela744 wrote:
The CEO of Southwest was given the green light by the Board of Directors of Southwest to look at other aircraft as the MAX grounding drags on. Article from today’s Chicago Tribune https://www.chicagotribune.com/business ... utType=amp


Why haven't they brought some of the 737 classics out of the desert? I understand they can't fly the classic, NG, and Max at the same time but if no Max are flying it shouldn't be an issue.

This has been answered so many times in multiple other threads. It’s not as easy as bringing some out. There’s so much work required to do that that it wouldn’t be practical.

Many newer WN pilots haven’t flown them, many have been sold, they’re not on the company paperwork anymore, etc, etc.
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TWA772LR
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:19 am

Did Gary take a play out of Herbs book and write notes with an Airbus pen, to get approval from the board to take a play from Ryanairs book to publicly say they are looking at ordering 100 COMAC 919s to get 500 737s for free?
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Alfons
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:09 am

SierraPacific wrote:
Classic corporate way to ask Boeing for a sweet deal on some new jets. There is no better way to ask for a gigantic discount than threatening to buy someone else's product after being a loyal customer for 40 years.


Well, the fact they are partly the reason for the financial misery Boeing is experiencing now, I hope Boeing will be man's enough to pay them back.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:13 am

That's why they're on the board and not running the company. The thought that an airlines can diversify their way out of the risk of a rare grounding is foolish. Even if WN bought a second type and was split 50/50, losing half the fleet is catastrophic. Making the wrong decision for normal operations will never be worth it.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:25 am

MSPNWA wrote:
That's why they're on the board and not running the company. The thought that an airlines can diversify their way out of the risk of a rare grounding is foolish. Even if WN bought a second type and was split 50/50, losing half the fleet is catastrophic. Making the wrong decision for normal operations will never be worth it.


Are technical problems rare? When you look at the engines, not so much. SW does not face this problem though, as they will have NGs and MAX for a long time and both use the highly reliable CFM engines. Adding a PW GTF would make things worse imho.
 
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LaunchDetected
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:29 am

MSPNWA wrote:
That's why they're on the board and not running the company. The thought that an airlines can diversify their way out of the risk of a rare grounding is foolish. Even if WN bought a second type and was split 50/50, losing half the fleet is catastrophic. Making the wrong decision for normal operations will never be worth it.


Diversifying a fleet to prevent a rare grounding is why Emirates operates both Rolls-Royce and Engine Alliance A380.
ANZ selected GE engine for their next 787 despite being a RR customer.

With a full MAX fleet, Southwest will be vulnerable to another 737 MAX grounding (unlikely), or to a LEAP grounding (not so unlikely given the difficulties of engine manufacturers those days).
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MSPNWA
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:37 am

LaunchDetected wrote:
Diversifying a fleet to prevent a rare grounding is why Emirates operates both Rolls-Royce and Engine Alliance A380.
ANZ selected GE engine for their next 787 despite being a RR customer.

With a full MAX fleet, Southwest will be vulnerable to another 737 MAX grounding (unlikely), or to a LEAP grounding (not so unlikely given the difficulties of engine manufacturers those days).


This isn't about different engines. This is about new types. And even if that is true about Emirates,what they're dealing with highlights the foolishness of the idea. It feels good, but in reality it's adding damaging risk, and all the while it's costing you money by operating the inferior product.
 
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:44 am

MSPNWA wrote:
LaunchDetected wrote:
Diversifying a fleet to prevent a rare grounding is why Emirates operates both Rolls-Royce and Engine Alliance A380.
ANZ selected GE engine for their next 787 despite being a RR customer.

With a full MAX fleet, Southwest will be vulnerable to another 737 MAX grounding (unlikely), or to a LEAP grounding (not so unlikely given the difficulties of engine manufacturers those days).


This isn't about different engines. This is about new types. And even if that is true about Emirates,what they're dealing with highlights the foolishness of the idea. It feels good, but in reality it's adding damaging risk, and all the while it's costing you money by operating the inferior product.


In an industry where aircraft types are linked with a single type of engine, yes it's also about engines.

That's a matter of risk management and how much you want to bet. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't works. Maybe are you more clever than the Emirates or ANZ "fearful" management (and there is a lot of additional examples).
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:07 am

Today Airbus could not take and deliver significant new orders on top of what they have as the lines are busy. But rates can be increased. With Southwest's more longer range and international routes, wouldn't some A321LR make more sense to buy than "tiny" A220s?
 
tomaheath
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:28 am

In my opinion this is better than taking over another airline. If they do decide on another type hopefully they can just order it for themselves. E2 anyone?
 
barney captain
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:34 am

wjcandee wrote:
Pretty-ironic insofar as the hole MCAS debacle is largely the result of WN waving its sausage at Boeing and demanding that there be no need for simulator differences training on the MAX. Admittedly, it is on Boeing that they made that a mission to the exclusion of rationality, and then half-assed the already-approved system that they co-opted to accomplish that mission. Deadly combination of pressure to git 'er done and a demanding requirement. Silicon Valley mentality infecting the engineering corps: we'll give them something serviceable and fix it later.


Complete nonsense.

SWA did not demand any such thing.
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:41 am

TWA772LR wrote:
Did Gary take a play out of Herbs book and write notes with an Airbus pen, to get approval from the board to take a play from Ryanairs book to publicly say they are looking at ordering 100 COMAC 919s to get 500 737s for free?

No one gets planes for free
 
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:43 am

tullamarine wrote:
You can't help thinking this is more an effort to ramp up the pressure on Boeing to get MAX sorted sooner rather than later. I still can't imagine them moving away from their all-737 fleet.



Yes cause rushing has proven to work out so well so far for the Max
 
strfyr51
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:00 am

boeing could just get rid of the MCAS buy WN 3 simulators or pay for all recurrent training to end this mess Or? recertify the damn airplane faster than they're going to do whatever Jury Rig they're doing to the Max. This is just Stupid!!
 
jghealey
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:10 am

Have they ever shown interest in the A321neo? That would allow for capacity increases while the engines share some commonality thanks to the CFM Leaps that aren't available on the A220

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UnMAXed
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:44 am

barney captain wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Pretty-ironic insofar as the hole MCAS debacle is largely the result of WN waving its sausage at Boeing and demanding that there be no need for simulator differences training on the MAX. Admittedly, it is on Boeing that they made that a mission to the exclusion of rationality, and then half-assed the already-approved system that they co-opted to accomplish that mission. Deadly combination of pressure to git 'er done and a demanding requirement. Silicon Valley mentality infecting the engineering corps: we'll give them something serviceable and fix it later.


Complete nonsense.

SWA did not demand any such thing.

Denial is not a river in Egypt.
 
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:21 am

[twoid][/twoid]
tullamarine wrote:
You can't help thinking this is more an effort to ramp up the pressure on Boeing to get MAX sorted sooner rather than later. I still can't imagine them moving away from their all-737 fleet.

Pressure on Boeing is already tremendous, including internal one. Applying any more is pretty pointless, as people cannot work more than 168 hours a week.
 
vulindlela744
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:30 am

The fact that Southwest has already visited a European operator (either Swiss or Air Baltic) shows some serious consideration for the A220. The 300 series can hold up to 150 pax in a single class and has true transcontinental capability and also Hawai’i. The backlog isn’t what the A320/321 is. Not to mention operators have publicly stated they are getting better than advertised fuel Econ. It would be foolish for SW not to consider this plane. Also, I have to say after flying on this aircraft in Europe it is NO regional jet by any means. Anyone who says that simply hasn’t flown on it. Beautiful quiet and smooth.
 
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par13del
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:39 am

LaunchDetected wrote:
Diversifying a fleet to prevent a rare grounding is why Emirates operates both Rolls-Royce and Engine Alliance A380.
ANZ selected GE engine for their next 787 despite being a RR customer.

How exactly did that work out, to get on the A380 RR made promises which they did not fulfill, EA ceased production since RR got the contract away from them, now the A380 is out of production because neither the OEM or RR and the airline could come together on further improvements, so in hindsight, was it really a good thing for one airlines diversification to prematurely end the production of the A380?
 
Armodeen
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:12 am

Worth remembering they haven’t lost the whole fleet now?

MSPNWA wrote:
That's why they're on the board and not running the company. The thought that an airlines can diversify their way out of the risk of a rare grounding is foolish. Even if WN bought a second type and was split 50/50, losing half the fleet is catastrophic. Making the wrong decision for normal operations will never be worth it.
 
Blueknows
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:13 am

https://viewfromthewing.com/southwest-a ... r-e2-jets/

With Boeing now controlling Embraer it’s the logical choice. They won’t buy airbus...B6 is already struggling with delays on current orders. Look for WN to make a huge purchase of Embraer jets. Boeing will allow WN to move order from MAX to New Embraer jets. WN will use the MAX delay to twist Boeing’s arm for a good deal. WN will probably sell the MAX aircraft they have. They will start to transition fleet type. Don’t forget WN hasn’t really done anything game changing in awhile. I think this is the moment. The Aircraft they own will start to be sold to other airlines(WN very smart). GAME CHANGERS!!!!
 
Gulfstream500
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:57 am

Blueknows wrote:
https://viewfromthewing.com/southwest-airlines-could-abandon-the-boeing-737-max-7-order-embraer-e2-jets/

With Boeing now controlling Embraer it’s the logical choice. They won’t buy airbus...B6 is already struggling with delays on current orders. Look for WN to make a huge purchase of Embraer jets. Boeing will allow WN to move order from MAX to New Embraer jets. WN will use the MAX delay to twist Boeing’s arm for a good deal. WN will probably sell the MAX aircraft they have. They will start to transition fleet type. Don’t forget WN hasn’t really done anything game changing in awhile. I think this is the moment. The Aircraft they own will start to be sold to other airlines(WN very smart). GAME CHANGERS!!!!


I like this idea... In a southwest seat pitch, the 195-E2 can now carry 132 pax. Though not as big as the MAX7, it would come at an extremely cheap price, given that only 154 orders are in the book, zero of which are from an American airline. Not to mention, one less FA would be needed than the MAX7...

But that’s only IF they would buy another aircraft.
So... when will the Northwest DC-9s be retired?
 
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DL747400
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:01 pm

WN has considered other aircraft types in the past, so this is not new. They are still too afraid to deviate very far from their comfort zone. I don't see any change here except a public proclamation from the BOD aimed squarely at Boeing.
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Revelation
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:18 pm

tullamarine wrote:
You can't help thinking this is more an effort to ramp up the pressure on Boeing to get MAX sorted sooner rather than later. I still can't imagine them moving away from their all-737 fleet.

Yes, this is just posturing.

WN and FR and AA and AS see that Boeing put aside $5B to pay for MAX problems and they all want to get as big a slice of that pie as they can.

It makes no sense for WN to buy smaller planes.

Unlike the old days, they have a relatively high labor cost and they fly to relatively expensive airports.

Buying planes that take less pax per trip is nonsensical.

They tried that with the ex-Airtran 717s and they could not make it work then and it'd be worse now.

WN is more likely to end up with MAX10 rather than A220, IMO.

Boeing will use discounts on future MAXes to pay for losses due to the MAX grounding.

Heck, they are flying the 737-800 to outposts such as MHT so it's clear they can support larger aircraft.
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ChrisNH38
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:49 pm

Since everyone KNOWS this is a 'ploy' to get Boeing to budge on prices, WHY would Boeing even bother 'budging?'
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reltney
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:50 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Pretty-ironic insofar as the hole MCAS debacle is largely the result of WN waving its sausage at Boeing and demanding that there be no need for simulator differences training on the MAX. Admittedly, it is on Boeing that they made that a mission to the exclusion of rationality, and then half-assed the already-approved system that they co-opted to accomplish that mission. Deadly combination of pressure to git 'er done and a demanding requirement. Silicon Valley mentality infecting the engineering corps: we'll give them something serviceable and fix it later.



Absolutely true. AWST did a great article about the 737 and SW Many years ago. It was basically how SW demanded the 737NG stay similar. Best part was the only reason the 737 still has the old outdated cockpit overhead panel is because of SW. SW screwed over Boeing more than the MAX screwed SW. Really best irony is the one of the MAX test pilots flies as a F/O at SW..... what a law suit that will be.
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:16 pm

ChrisNH38 wrote:
Since everyone KNOWS this is a 'ploy' to get Boeing to budge on prices, WHY would Boeing even bother 'budging?'

Exactly. Everyone involved knows what's going on. The 1%ers on WN's BoD wants to look like they are earning their $millions for watching PowerPoints four times a year so they push out this kind of stuff to look like they are being profound and significant, but it means nothing to both their company's executives and Boeing's executives. It's just corporate theater, nothing more.
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KarlB737
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:31 pm

vulindlela744 wrote:
The CEO of Southwest was given the green light by the Board of Directors of Southwest to look at other aircraft as the MAX grounding drags on.


And at the same time:

Courtesy: ATW Online

Southwest Posts Record 3Q Profit On Strong Demand; Offsets MAX Challenges

"Van de Ven said the company believes it can manage taking delivery of 5-10 MAXs per week, a breakneck pace that would see its delivery schedule fully up to speed by mid-2020. Southwest expects to receive 72 MAXs next year, while retiring between 20 and 25 of its 737-700 aircraft, leaving it with roughly 800 aircraft in its total fleet by December 2020."

https://atwonline.com/airline-financials/southwest-posts-record-3q-profit-strong-demand-offsets-max-challenges
 
caljn
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:35 pm

On Bloomberg yesterday Mr. Kelly said the MAX8 is superior to the 320 but expressed a (vague, non-committal corporate speak) interest in the 220.
 
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:52 pm

reltney wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Pretty-ironic insofar as the hole MCAS debacle is largely the result of WN waving its sausage at Boeing and demanding that there be no need for simulator differences training on the MAX. Admittedly, it is on Boeing that they made that a mission to the exclusion of rationality, and then half-assed the already-approved system that they co-opted to accomplish that mission. Deadly combination of pressure to git 'er done and a demanding requirement. Silicon Valley mentality infecting the engineering corps: we'll give them something serviceable and fix it later.



Absolutely true. AWST did a great article about the 737 and SW Many years ago. It was basically how SW demanded the 737NG stay similar. Best part was the only reason the 737 still has the old outdated cockpit overhead panel is because of SW. SW screwed over Boeing more than the MAX screwed SW. Really best irony is the one of the MAX test pilots flies as a F/O at SW..... what a law suit that will be.


Precisely. WN drove the demand for commonality to a ridiculous degree...it curtailed important avionics and cockpit upgrades Boeing wanted to do but didn't. Something even as arcane as the design for the L1 door...that rotating OJI-inducing outdated design remained thanks to Southwest.
 
Checklist787
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:55 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
Obviously the Airbus A220-300 and pretty sure that Airbus would even allow them to convert to a - 500 once launched.



Where are your sources regarding the launch of the A220-500X concept ??
 
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:11 pm

KarlB737 wrote:
vulindlela744 wrote:
The CEO of Southwest was given the green light by the Board of Directors of Southwest to look at other aircraft as the MAX grounding drags on.


And at the same time:

Courtesy: ATW Online

Southwest Posts Record 3Q Profit On Strong Demand; Offsets MAX Challenges

"Van de Ven said the company believes it can manage taking delivery of 5-10 MAXs per week, a breakneck pace that would see its delivery schedule fully up to speed by mid-2020. Southwest expects to receive 72 MAXs next year, while retiring between 20 and 25 of its 737-700 aircraft, leaving it with roughly 800 aircraft in its total fleet by December 2020."

https://atwonline.com/airline-financials/southwest-posts-record-3q-profit-strong-demand-offsets-max-challenges

Airbus would be wise to sharpen the pencils on the A220. While an order is unlikely, it will pressure Boeing. In the unlikely even WN buys a small number, for discussion sake I'll say 50, it would be a foot in the door for Airbus.

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par13del
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:12 pm

slider wrote:
Precisely. WN drove the demand for commonality to a ridiculous degree...it curtailed important avionics and cockpit upgrades Boeing wanted to do but didn't. Something even as arcane as the design for the L1 door...that rotating OJI-inducing outdated design remained thanks to Southwest.

Remind us again what percentage of the NG fleet produced and sold by Boeing are operated by WN, after a review let's discuss who really is at fault here, especially when the operators of the thousands of NG's not used by Boeing talk about customer service and support.

I think the real question is whether the size of the WN purchase or promised purchased was enough to have some customization just for WN without "suffering" the rest of the world?
Perhaps the rest of the world were too content?
 
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:17 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Airbus would be wise to sharpen the pencils on the A220. While an order is unlikely, it will pressure Boeing. In the unlikely even WN buys a small number, for discussion sake I'll say 50, it would be a foot in the door for Airbus.

Lightsaber

In this case, which would be the bigger driver, Boeing trying to get its new venture with Embraer off the ground, or Airbus trying to get a foot in the door at WN?
Methinks regardless of however sharp the pencils get, if WN decides to get something other than a 737, Boeing's financial motivation is greater, after all, if the Embraer goes into service with WN it may allow other carriers to follow suit, the A220 is already in use so....
 
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:25 pm

Blueknows wrote:
https://viewfromthewing.com/southwest-airlines-could-abandon-the-boeing-737-max-7-order-embraer-e2-jets/

With Boeing now controlling Embraer it’s the logical choice. They won’t buy airbus...B6 is already struggling with delays on current orders. Look for WN to make a huge purchase of Embraer jets. Boeing will allow WN to move order from MAX to New Embraer jets. WN will use the MAX delay to twist Boeing’s arm for a good deal. WN will probably sell the MAX aircraft they have. They will start to transition fleet type. Don’t forget WN hasn’t really done anything game changing in awhile. I think this is the moment. The Aircraft they own will start to be sold to other airlines(WN very smart). GAME CHANGERS!!!!


The E95 is not a logical choice because you are forgetting one key principle of Southwest Airlines sales strategy which is still valid and used as a key USP i.e. offering 2pc luggage allowance per passenger (46KG) free of cost. The E95 even at 90% load will not be able to carry that many suitcases and fly for 3.5 hours nonstop !
 
ShamrockBoi330
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:27 pm

DarthLobster wrote:
FFS. By the time the wings would be attached to the first fuselage barrel of whatever, they'll be 100+ richer in MAXes. This is just WN waving their corporate sausage at Boeing and demanding freebies.


You really think they'll receive 100 MAX before they could receive a220?
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:28 pm

par13del wrote:
slider wrote:
Precisely. WN drove the demand for commonality to a ridiculous degree...it curtailed important avionics and cockpit upgrades Boeing wanted to do but didn't. Something even as arcane as the design for the L1 door...that rotating OJI-inducing outdated design remained thanks to Southwest.

Remind us again what percentage of the NG fleet produced and sold by Boeing are operated by WN, after a review let's discuss who really is at fault here, especially when the operators of the thousands of NG's not used by Boeing talk about customer service and support.

I think the real question is whether the size of the WN purchase or promised purchased was enough to have some customization just for WN without "suffering" the rest of the world?
Perhaps the rest of the world were too content?

Remind us again, who is the world's largest operator of the 737NG? WN.
Remind us again, who is the launch customer for the 737NG? WN
Remind us again, who is the world's largest operator of the 737 as a whole? WN.

Even if WN operates "only" 10% of the 737NGs (and that's a huge feat) and 50% of the 73Gs produced, they're still the #1 operator of the 737NG and could, single-handedly, put a huge dent into the whole program.
 
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Pudelhund
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:28 pm

This clearly indicates that WN wants to make an opportunistic move and become the North American launch customer of the MC-21 with a 200-frame order.
 
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keesje
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Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:29 pm

Slowly reality is sinking in.

Just one thing is worse than leaving the sole 737 fleet strategy, that is sticking with it.

Image
Source photo: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2019/05/07/luchtvaartramp-boeing-zweeg-over-ontbreken-van-waarschuwingssysteem-in-737-max-a3959328
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
ShamrockBoi330
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:35 pm

Noshow wrote:
Today Airbus could not take and deliver significant new orders on top of what they have as the lines are busy. But rates can be increased. With Southwest's more longer range and international routes, wouldn't some A321LR make more sense to buy than "tiny" A220s?


Just curious, how many "tiny" 737-700 and MAX7s do Southwest currently fly or have on order?

And how many more seats do they fit on these "tiny" planes than would fit on the a220-300?

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