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DenverTed
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:26 am

C 919 or MC-21?
 
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precure787
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:38 am

Would that mean they'd look for wide-bodied aircraft?
If so, then the A330 and the 787 would best fit them.
If not, they'd probably go with the A321neo (good for transcontinental and Hawaii routes). The 797 may be a possibility for their aircraft type other than the 737, but depends on the fruition and developmental progress for that type. Such debacles may be the result of the botched developmental progress, as in the case of the 737 MAX.
The A220 wouldn't work for them because of certain issues related to the PW1000G powerplant.
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precure787
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:39 am

DenverTed wrote:
C 919 or MC-21?

They can't order the C919 because of tariffs on Chinese-imported products, and the ongoing trade war with China.
Edward Zen/Precure 787
 
716131
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:42 am

Will Dreamliner be the next one to order or maybe the 737 MAX 10.
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
 
Babyshark
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:30 am

Eyad89 wrote:
seabosdca wrote:


But all the looking in the world doesn't change the business reality, which is that (a) a smaller type is going to be difficult to operate profitably and (b) it is going to add a whole lot of near-term expense, for attenuated benefit, to add another type of the same size (i.e., A320neo/A321neo).


How does DL or other major airlines run mix fleets of 738/A320 while achieving great cost management figures?


Fleet diversity can be a good thing for many reasons, and fleet simplification by itself isn’t a target a company should achieve. It’s just a tool that could work, but you could achieve the same results without it in some cases.


Airline mergers make those diverse fleets work. Truth is it causes great inefficiencies at delta too. We are trying to clean that up, reduce multi fleets overnighting at outstations and so forth. It would be a far more efficient airline with just a airbus fleet of 350, 330, 321, 320, 319. But buying all new jets is expensive, cheaper to use old jets we already own.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:21 am

Gulfstream500 wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
https://viewfromthewing.com/southwest-airlines-could-abandon-the-boeing-737-max-7-order-embraer-e2-jets/

With Boeing now controlling Embraer it’s the logical choice. They won’t buy airbus...B6 is already struggling with delays on current orders. Look for WN to make a huge purchase of Embraer jets. Boeing will allow WN to move order from MAX to New Embraer jets. WN will use the MAX delay to twist Boeing’s arm for a good deal. WN will probably sell the MAX aircraft they have. They will start to transition fleet type. Don’t forget WN hasn’t really done anything game changing in awhile. I think this is the moment. The Aircraft they own will start to be sold to other airlines(WN very smart). GAME CHANGERS!!!!


I like this idea... In a southwest seat pitch, the 195-E2 can now carry 132 pax. Though not as big as the MAX7, it would come at an extremely cheap price, given that only 154 orders are in the book, zero of which are from an American airline. Not to mention, one less FA would be needed than the MAX7...

But that’s only IF they would buy another aircraft.


The E295 would have been an ideal B735 replacement. But it's probably too small to be a B737 replacement, for which WN could dangle a 300-aircraft order, and WN would likely want more passengers for a 3 FA plane than 132 (the BCS3 would be 140 seats and much more range).

As for the B737, WN is basically the only market for it, operating about half of the examples in service. The only other significant operators of scale for it today are WS and UA.
 
airzona11
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:16 am

seabosdca wrote:
ODwyerPW wrote:
So you think every Route that is serviced by a plane that holds 137-143pax is suddenly going to support 175pax just because you put bigger planes on it? You only have to go back a decade and Boeing was still flying planes that topped out at 122pax.


No, I think WN is going to have to rationalize its route network, increasing frequency and/or upgauging on some routes and dropping those that can't support a larger gauge even at low frequency. The unit cost of a 143-seat aircraft is just not going to be competitive.

All 510 planes will be replaced by couterparts that seat 32-38 more seats?


Eventually, yes, if they want to keep their current business model. The alternative is that they go to a more legacy-style hub and spoke model, and rely expressly on connections to keep small stations going. P2P with small aircraft is just not going to compete with the legacies.

What if you cannot fill the seats after upgauging?


Then you drop the route and use the asset to reinforce your core network.


The unit costs of the 143 seats are still working for WN. The MAX situation does not change that. What is your time horizon for the 143 category not being competitive? The last 20 years, all airlines not WN have skipped the 143 and gone bigger A320/321/738/739 and Southwest has been just as competitive, just as consistent, just as profitable. Now WN might go for the 7310 for the longer legs in their network to get the CASM advantage, but the overwhelming majority of the the WN model is core routes with high frequency. That is also what the most coveted travelers want.

Express or connections is not the road to profitability for any airline.
 
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zeke
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:40 am

precure787 wrote:
DenverTed wrote:
C 919 or MC-21?

They can't order the C919 because of tariffs on Chinese-imported products, and the ongoing trade war with China.



I would be surprised to see any Chinese certified aircraft in any western airline.

There is just too much risk patent infringement litigation which could see an airframe sitting on the ground for years while the multiple cases are heard.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:45 am

airzona11 wrote:
What is your time horizon for the 143 category not being competitive?


We're in the middle of it now.

WN could make 143 seats work when the bulk of legacy flying was done with 160-seat aircraft. Now the legacies are shifting en masse to 200-seat aircraft on domestic core routes, as demand has grown. The payload range improvements enabled by the new engines are accelerating the trend. It's why Boeing is in such a spot with the 737-9/10, and why every month we see more A320neo orders being converted to A321neo.
 
INFINITI329
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:06 am

I would hope Airbus is preparing an attractive package to offer WN 150 seat A320neos & 200 seat A321neos....as much as I would like see the A220 at WN as far fleet diversification concerned i think the 320/321 would be the best option
 
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scbriml
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:32 am

Chemist wrote:
jbmitt wrote:
Chemist wrote:
Having two types in your fleet means twice the chance that one of them is grounded you know.


..but the odds of the entire fleet being grounded would be half right?


Yes, but half a grounded fleet is still a disaster.


But only half as disastrous as having your whole fleet grounded.
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LAX772LR
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:01 am

tullamarine wrote:
I still can't imagine them moving away from their all-737 fleet.

They're going to have to, eventually.

This has only served to remind them of that.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
rbavfan
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:16 am

barney captain wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Pretty-ironic insofar as the hole MCAS debacle is largely the result of WN waving its sausage at Boeing and demanding that there be no need for simulator differences training on the MAX. Admittedly, it is on Boeing that they made that a mission to the exclusion of rationality, and then half-assed the already-approved system that they co-opted to accomplish that mission. Deadly combination of pressure to git 'er done and a demanding requirement. Silicon Valley mentality infecting the engineering corps: we'll give them something serviceable and fix it later.


Complete nonsense.

SWA did not demand any such thing.


WN was quite vocal that they be common rated without difference training. Thats why the classics were retired when the -8 was delivered. you can get common 737 classic & 737NG common rating or you can get 737NG & 737Max common rating. So the classics went to the desert.
 
asteriskceo
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:18 am

Southwest is so arrogant. There will be no Airbus or Embraer. There will be no more mergers or acquisitions. There will be no carts. No assigned seating. They will continue on the beat of their own drum into the sunset......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
rbavfan
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:25 am

Gulfstream500 wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
https://viewfromthewing.com/southwest-airlines-could-abandon-the-boeing-737-max-7-order-embraer-e2-jets/

With Boeing now controlling Embraer it’s the logical choice. They won’t buy airbus...B6 is already struggling with delays on current orders. Look for WN to make a huge purchase of Embraer jets. Boeing will allow WN to move order from MAX to New Embraer jets. WN will use the MAX delay to twist Boeing’s arm for a good deal. WN will probably sell the MAX aircraft they have. They will start to transition fleet type. Don’t forget WN hasn’t really done anything game changing in awhile. I think this is the moment. The Aircraft they own will start to be sold to other airlines(WN very smart). GAME CHANGERS!!!!


I like this idea... In a southwest seat pitch, the 195-E2 can now carry 132 pax. Though not as big as the MAX7, it would come at an extremely cheap price, given that only 154 orders are in the book, zero of which are from an American airline. Not to mention, one less FA would be needed than the MAX7...

But that’s only IF they would buy another aircraft.


WN max 7 might have the same pitch as the Max-8/800. If so the plane should carry 149 seats in their layout. If they do the same pitch in the current 73G they would should have 155. then it would be 4 FA's vs the old 3.
 
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Spiderguy252
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:52 am

There are lessons from this saga for Boeing too - that is not to be beholden to one customer - leave alone such a conservative one in Southwest - to such an extent that you sacrifice safety and innovation for economic gain.
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T54A
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:09 am

keesje wrote:
Slowly reality is sinking in.

Just one thing is worse than leaving the sole 737 fleet strategy, that is sticking with it.

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Source photo: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2019/05/07/luchtvaartramp-boeing-zweeg-over-ontbreken-van-waarschuwingssysteem-in-737-max-a3959328


My thoughts exactly. If this Max debacle has shown anything, it’s a single type fleet is very risky. Be that all A or all B. If I were on the board, I would advise diversity.
T6, Allouette 3, Oryx, King Air, B1900, B727, B744, A319, A342/3/6 A332/3 A359
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:05 pm

seabosdca wrote:
No, I think WN is goi]ng to have to rationalize its route network, increasing frequency and/or upgauging on some routes and dropping those that can't support a larger gauge even at low frequency. The unit cost of a 143-seat aircraft is just not going to be competitive.

All 510 planes will be replaced by couterparts that seat 32-38 more seats?


Eventually, yes, if they want to keep their current business model. The alternative is that they go to a more legacy-style hub and spoke model, and rely expressly on connections to keep small stations going. P2P with small aircraft is just not going to compete with the legacies.

What if you cannot fill the seats after upgauging?


Then you drop the route and use the asset to reinforce your core network.


WN can likely make most of its smallest by population U.S. markets already served by the airline such as OGG, KOA, LBB, MAF, ECP, and PNS work if it transitions over to a fleet consisting of 737-800 or larger aircraft as there is likely enough demand for WN to continue serving these markets if WN retires all of the planes smaller than the 737-800 from its fleet.
 
bob75013
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:12 pm

asteriskceo wrote:
Southwest is so arrogant. There will be no Airbus or Embraer. There will be no more mergers or acquisitions. There will be no carts. No assigned seating. They will continue on the beat of their own drum into the sunset......




You forgot "and continue to be the most profitable airline in North America while doing so"
 
747cllipper747
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:54 pm

Let’s all remember Boeing kept the 737 Max the same as Southwest basically told them to... SW did not want a new type of a/c. SW bullied them into keeping a 737 type, just updated... still Boeing’s lack of disclosure is criminal!

Frankly Boeing’s CEO should be fired!
 
wjcandee
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:01 pm

bob75013 wrote:
asteriskceo wrote:
Southwest is so arrogant. There will be no Airbus or Embraer. There will be no more mergers or acquisitions. There will be no carts. No assigned seating. They will continue on the beat of their own drum into the sunset......




You forgot "and continue to be the most profitable airline in North America while doing so"


DL 2018 net profit: $3.9 Billion. You know, the airline with the widely-diverse fleet of old and new aircraft, big and small, that are all painted the same and have a common brand experience.
WN 2018 net profit: $2.5 Billion.

FWIW, and it helps make your point: UA $2.13 Billion, AA $2.1 Billion.

Source: https://simpleflying.com/most-profitable-airlines-2018/
 
UA772IAD
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:11 pm

Revelation wrote:
ChrisNH38 wrote:
Since everyone KNOWS this is a 'ploy' to get Boeing to budge on prices, WHY would Boeing even bother 'budging?'

Exactly. Everyone involved knows what's going on. The 1%ers on WN's BoD wants to look like they are earning their $millions for watching PowerPoints four times a year so they push out this kind of stuff to look like they are being profound and significant, but it means nothing to both their company's executives and Boeing's executives. It's just corporate theater, nothing more.


I am normally in agreement with you- but but I do not fully agree with this. People that sit on corporate boards, particularly on very public facing companies, like WN tend to take the job very seriously. They also tend to be busy people, being business leaders themselves- even if they are fully or semi retired. And while they may not all and always be the picture of business perfection and decorum, you don't get elected and get to stay on the board by simply mailing it in. Now, this isn't to say that it isn't clubby, but to just claim this as corporate theater is a bit reductionist.

--

It's 2019, and we continue to see that results on Wall Street matter most. And while it's no surprise that airlines shop around, I believe this time, in this case, it is more significant than just posturing. The MAX is going into it's eighth month grounded. It's customers have wiped the fleet from their schedules for the remainder of this year-WN has removed it through February- a timeline that continues to roll back. We do not know when it will return to service, and we do know that once it's given the green light (which is a discussion in itself), that the planes will not be immediately in the skies and back on schedules. The grounding has caused an enormous slew of problems for Boeing, notably exposure and crisis of confidence. We have seen many discussions on this site, spurred by various news reportings, that the MAX is a chain in compounding issues (also among them issues with the 787, and now 777X delays) which has effected Boeing's ability to produce new, clean sheet designs. The MoM is now no closer to reality and neither is a 737 replacement. Which brings me back to why this thread exists in the first place... this isn't about tomorrow, or February, or whenever the MAX returns to service, it's the long game. It's WN asking what are we going to be flying in 10 or 20 years from now?

--
I think the tone of some here, is that WN is where it is because of the 737. The plane has been a huge variable in WN's success, and one that they truly "believe in," but it's not the only factor in their success. The airline has pivoted tremendously in the last two decades and I think surprised us in ways that go against our nostalgia for the WN of yesterday that plied the skies between it's "non-hubs" and points. That WN wouldn't overtake UA in DEN in 2013, because they didn't even fly to DEN until 2006; or have a a presence in DCA, or dare think of flying into "expensive" primary airports like SFO or BOS. Or fly to Mexico, the Caribbean, or launch it's own Hawaii operation, which includes inter-island. So is it really out of the realm of possibility to think that WN could fly something else besides the 737?

Recall other things that would "never" happen in the airline world, until they did:
- UA would never order another GE engine after UA 232
- AA would never order another Airbus after AA587
- UA would never actually order the A320 over the 737...
I'm sure there are many others.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:39 pm

Chemist wrote:
jbmitt wrote:
Chemist wrote:
Having two types in your fleet means twice the chance that one of them is grounded you know.


..but the odds of the entire fleet being grounded would be half right?


Yes, but half a grounded fleet is still a disaster.


But far less a disaster than a whole fleet grounding.
 
questions
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:45 pm

“Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft”

From a corporate governance standpoint, this makes no sense. The BOD does not approve aircraft type. The BOD approves aircraft funding.

The BOD does not have to give the CEO a “green light” “to look” at other aircraft. As the CEO and his team execute the strategy, which may include new routes, which may necessitate an analysis of whether or not existing aircraft in the fleet would be the most profitable, the team can look at alternatives (i.e., other aircraft). The BOD is fully aware of the strategy, high level work to execute (including aircraft analysis), implications and risks.

If Kelly and his team believe the best aircraft to execute the strategy is one other that the 737, they will present the business case to the BOD. The BOD will not “approve” the aircraft type, but will attempt to confirm, at a high level, that the underlying analytics in the business case are correct and will be asked to approve the *funding* associated with the new aircraft.

This does not mean that individual BOD members will have an opinion grounded in other factors, including being members of the good old boys/gals club.
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:00 pm

A220 sized aircraft makes no sense for WN's business model.

They fly with costly labor to costly airports.

Flying less pax per trip makes the math worse rather than better.

Adding a second fleet type makes the math worse rather than better.



It depends upon whether there are any longer, thinner routes within SW's network that could use the A220's superb range and still be reasonably profitable. Transcons from secondary airports to secondary airports just might be. Also, if you view the A220 as a direct 737-700 replacement then the case for the A220 becomes more compelling.

Do I think it will happen? No. Actually, I do not. Is this posturing from SW to pressure Boeing for more compensation? Heck yes. However, if Boeing drags its feet on compensation then a lot of things could happen. Given Boeing's need to retain goodwill with SW, I'm sure they're moving Heaven and Earth to keep SW happy, but the case for the A220 flying in SW colors isn't a terrible one, actually.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:35 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
A220 sized aircraft makes no sense for WN's business model.

They fly with costly labor to costly airports.

Flying less pax per trip makes the math worse rather than better.

Adding a second fleet type makes the math worse rather than better.



It depends upon whether there are any longer, thinner routes within SW's network that could use the A220's superb range and still be reasonably profitable. Transcons from secondary airports to secondary airports just might be. Also, if you view the A220 as a direct 737-700 replacement then the case for the A220 becomes more compelling.

Do I think it will happen? No. Actually, I do not. Is this posturing from SW to pressure Boeing for more compensation? Heck yes. However, if Boeing drags its feet on compensation then a lot of things could happen. Given Boeing's need to retain goodwill with SW, I'm sure they're moving Heaven and Earth to keep SW happy, but the case for the A220 flying in SW colors isn't a terrible one, actually.


The A220 would be superior to buying the 737-7 MAX. Southwest is going to have to stop being an all 737 airline eventually. There won't be another major revision to the 737 after the MAX debacle. They might as well start with converting their existing orders for the least efficient MAX model, the 737--7. Once an airline has a couple of hundred copies of a particular model, the economies fo scale don't decrease much with each additional unit added. Getting an A220 would allow the flexibility to fly both long thin routes and short hub and spoke routes in Texas. Don't believe the hype that Southwest is a point to point airline with minimal connections. The intra-Texas market is a hub and spoke model. The A220 is a much better plane than the Embraer E2. The interior of the E2 looks like a cramped regional jet since the larger bins have been installed. Plus the A220 has the range to fly all the missions of the existing 738-700.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:53 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
The A220 would be superior to buying the 737-7 MAX.

Sure, if you only consider the positives related to somewhat lower fuel burn than MAX-7 and more fleet diversity, but ignore all the negatives such as re-training crews and mechanics, maintaining spares for two fleets, changing IT infrastructure, reducing crew scheduling flexibility, spending money on small planes when the need is for larger planes, etc.

WN got a fully up to speed 717 fleet complete with trained crews, mechanics, spare parts, IT, etc and could not make it work, and the way their operation has changed since is even more flights with even bigger airplanes to costlier resource constrained airports, and A220 helps address none of these things.
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Babyshark
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:05 pm

Not to mention revelation that the A220 is having issues with engines, factory QC and electrical systems design.
 
Babyshark
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:08 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
Aptivaboy wrote:
The interior of the E2 looks like a cramped regional jet since the larger bins have been installed. Plus the A220 has the range to fly all the missions of the existing 738-700.


Yeah the E2 looks miserable

Image
 
barney captain
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:12 pm

rbavfan wrote:
barney captain wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Pretty-ironic insofar as the hole MCAS debacle is largely the result of WN waving its sausage at Boeing and demanding that there be no need for simulator differences training on the MAX. Admittedly, it is on Boeing that they made that a mission to the exclusion of rationality, and then half-assed the already-approved system that they co-opted to accomplish that mission. Deadly combination of pressure to git 'er done and a demanding requirement. Silicon Valley mentality infecting the engineering corps: we'll give them something serviceable and fix it later.


Complete nonsense.

SWA did not demand any such thing.


WN was quite vocal that they be common rated without difference training. Thats why the classics were retired when the -8 was delivered. you can get common 737 classic & 737NG common rating or you can get 737NG & 737Max common rating. So the classics went to the desert.


Incorrect. As I pointed out earlier, there is only one type rating for all 737 models. The FAA won't allow cross-utilization between the variants, but there is only one type rating. The classics went to the desert for multitude of reasons, AD's, reliability, fuel burn and fleet modernization - but we could have continued to operate them as a sub-fleet, just like we did for the -200.
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:36 pm

Babyshark wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
Aptivaboy wrote:


Yeah the E2 looks miserable

Image


Not if you're paying for a domestic first class ticket. Go further back in economy.
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:42 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
The interior of the E2 looks like a cramped regional jet since the larger bins have been installed. Plus the A220 has the range to fly all the missions of the existing 738-700.


Yeah the E2 looks miserable


Quirk of the cut and paste function. Nope, I didn't say that, another poster did. I wish the mods would update the cut and paste function to quote the actual person saying the statement. Quote vortexes tend to cite the wrong A-netter... Just clearing the air.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:46 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
Aptivaboy wrote:
The interior of the E2 looks like a cramped regional jet since the larger bins have been installed. Plus the A220 has the range to fly all the missions of the existing 738-700.


Yeah the E2 looks miserable


Quirk of the cut and paste function. Nope, I didn't say that, another poster did. I wish the mods would update the cut and paste function to quote the actual person saying the statement. Quote vortexes tend to cite the wrong A-netter... Just clearing the air.


It's really hard to qoute an exerpt from a long post using a mobile device. Sorry about that.
 
airzona11
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:05 pm

asteriskceo wrote:
Southwest is so arrogant. There will be no Airbus or Embraer. There will be no more mergers or acquisitions. There will be no carts. No assigned seating. They will continue on the beat of their own drum into the sunset......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The most consistently profitable while being one of the worlds largest airlines... seems like they drum is beating them in the right direction.
 
asteriskceo
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:08 pm

airzona11 wrote:
asteriskceo wrote:
Southwest is so arrogant. There will be no Airbus or Embraer. There will be no more mergers or acquisitions. There will be no carts. No assigned seating. They will continue on the beat of their own drum into the sunset......


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The most consistently profitable while being one of the worlds largest airlines... seems like they drum is beating them in the right direction.


Disagreed. While a preferred airline for the older crowd, younger generations prefer airlines with assigned seating, power outlets, etc....

If WN was smart, they would start looking further into the future in regards to their customer base.


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airzona11
Posts: 1743
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:10 pm

asteriskceo wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
asteriskceo wrote:
Southwest is so arrogant. There will be no Airbus or Embraer. There will be no more mergers or acquisitions. There will be no carts. No assigned seating. They will continue on the beat of their own drum into the sunset......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The most consistently profitable while being one of the worlds largest airlines... seems like they drum is beating them in the right direction.


Disagreed. While a preferred airline for the older crowd, younger generations prefer airlines with assigned seating, power outlets, etc....

If WN was smart, they would start looking further into the future in regards to their customer base.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You can disagree. But there is zero data that supports what you say.
 
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hOMSaR
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:21 pm

While I certainly agree that power outlets are an increasingly important amenity, I’ve seen zero indication that “younger generations” prefer assigned seating moreso than anyone else.

I know a number of younger folks who fly Southwest almost exclusively, and one of their main reasons for liking them is they find the airline just easier to deal with. No extra fees, free changes should their plans change, etc. Never heard any of them complain about lack of assigned seats.
I was raised by a cup of coffee.
 
asteriskceo
Posts: 501
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:23 pm

hOMSaR wrote:
While I certainly agree that power outlets are an increasingly important amenity, I’ve seen zero indication that “younger generations” prefer assigned seating moreso than anyone else.

I know a number of younger folks who fly Southwest almost exclusively, and one of their main reasons for liking them is they find the airline just easier to deal with. No extra fees, free changes should their plans change, etc. Never heard any of them complain about lack of assigned seats.


Hmm...I have observed the opposite. Perhaps it’s a California thing.


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747megatop
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:35 pm

bob75013 wrote:
747megatop wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
You can't help thinking this is more an effort to ramp up the pressure on Boeing to get MAX sorted sooner rather than later. I still can't imagine them moving away from their all-737 fleet.

They will move away from an all-737 fleet. The 737 MAX fiasco has made Southwest realize that they can't have all eggs(planes) in one basket(Manufacturer). Also, Boeing doesn't have another type that is equivalent of the 737.


Did WN's earnings report help you come to that conclusion?

Common sense and then this - https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/24/business ... index.html
 
bob75013
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Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:51 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Chemist wrote:
jbmitt wrote:

..but the odds of the entire fleet being grounded would be half right?


Yes, but half a grounded fleet is still a disaster.


But far less a disaster than a whole fleet grounding.



So has there EVER been a time when an airline has had it's whole fleet grounded?

Just wondering...
 
bob75013
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Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:05 pm

747megatop wrote:
bob75013 wrote:
747megatop wrote:
They will move away from an all-737 fleet. The 737 MAX fiasco has made Southwest realize that they can't have all eggs(planes) in one basket(Manufacturer). Also, Boeing doesn't have another type that is equivalent of the 737.


Did WN's earnings report help you come to that conclusion?

Common sense and then this - https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/24/business ... index.html


Ahh, so the most profitable airline in the US. The airlne tht has suceeeded by doing the opposite of what the various talking heads told it to do, should now start listening to talking head experts now?

Really???

There is a reason WN didn't go BK wen all the legacies did. There is a reason WN has nrvver laid an enoloyee off whie the legacies laid off thousands and thousands/.
There is a reason WN has been profitable for over 40 consecutive years (the legacies might get there is they have another 35 straight years of profits).

The reason is that WN does what WN thinks it needs to do to be a great company -- F..K the talking heads and what they think.
 
BravoOne
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:54 pm

747cllipper747 wrote:
Let’s all remember Boeing kept the 737 Max the same as Southwest basically told them to... SW did not want a new type of a/c. SW bullied them into keeping a 737 type, just updated... still Boeing’s lack of disclosure is criminal!

Frankly Boeing’s CEO should be fired!


Keep in mind that the current CEO was not even a part of Boeing Commercial when all this shyt started flowing. You shoot from the hip attitude is so noted.
 
xxcr
Posts: 467
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:35 pm

ShamrockBoi330 wrote:
Noshow wrote:
Today Airbus could not take and deliver significant new orders on top of what they have as the lines are busy. But rates can be increased. With Southwest's more longer range and international routes, wouldn't some A321LR make more sense to buy than "tiny" A220s?


Just curious, how many "tiny" 737-700 and MAX7s do Southwest currently fly or have on order?

And how many more seats do they fit on these "tiny" planes than would fit on the a220-300?



WN has:

737-700----508
737-800----208
737 Max8---33(All Stored)

Im sure if WN did order the A220-300, they would squeeze in atleast 135seats.
 
716131
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:00 am

bob75013 wrote:
SQ789 wrote:
Switching/converting some orders to 787's or 777X's. Will this be possible?



Comedian ae you?

I don't think a 777 fits in about 1/3 of the airports WN flys to

So other aircrafts outside Boeing then?
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
 
kaneporta1
Posts: 737
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:22 am

Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:41 am

xxcr wrote:
ShamrockBoi330 wrote:
Noshow wrote:
Today Airbus could not take and deliver significant new orders on top of what they have as the lines are busy. But rates can be increased. With Southwest's more longer range and international routes, wouldn't some A321LR make more sense to buy than "tiny" A220s?


Just curious, how many "tiny" 737-700 and MAX7s do Southwest currently fly or have on order?

And how many more seats do they fit on these "tiny" planes than would fit on the a220-300?



WN has:

737-700----508
737-800----208
737 Max8---33(All Stored)

Im sure if WN did order the A220-300, they would squeeze in atleast 135seats.


If JetBlue can fit 140 seats in their A220s, Southwest should be able to get at least 5 more (1 extra row). 145 seats is pretty a good number for the replacement of the 143-seat 737-700s.
I'd rather die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather, not terrified and screaming, like his passengers
 
Elementalism
Posts: 602
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:03 am

Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:46 am

I could see A321s. Southwest seems to be more interested in the MAX-8 than the -7.
 
lat41
Posts: 640
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 12:23 pm

Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:31 pm

If the MAX issue drags on too long with no resolution, WN will be tripping over their "corporate sausage"
 
INFINITI329
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:17 am

 
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seahawk
Posts: 9627
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:52 am

If an airline has a large fleet of 150 seat planes and fill them to 90% average, they usually use 135 seats. If this airline now wants to buy an new aircraft and use it for the next 15-20 years and calculates with a modest traffic growth of 1,5% per year it needs the plane needs to offer around 170 seats.

for 2% growth 182 seats
for 2,5% growth 196 seats
for 3% growth 211 seats
 
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scbriml
Posts: 19033
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Re: Southwest CEO given green light by Board to look at other aircraft

Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:12 am

Gary Kelly, the chairman of Southwest Airlines, told CNBC Thursday that next year, the company will review whether to source airplanes from another manufacturer besides Boeing.


So despite all the denials here, it looks like WN is serious about this.

Aptivaboy wrote:
Quirk of the cut and paste function. Nope, I didn't say that, another poster did. I wish the mods would update the cut and paste function to quote the actual person saying the statement. Quote vortexes tend to cite the wrong A-netter... Just clearing the air.


It's not the site (and nothing the mods do anyway), it's always a user error.

flyingclrs727 wrote:
It's really hard to qoute an exerpt from a long post using a mobile device. Sorry about that.


It is difficult.
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There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.

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