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mcdu
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:21 pm

n92r03 wrote:
Perhaps a cry closet or other safe space is available for those that are offended. Good God people, lighten up a bit. This appears to be a stupid joke/prank.



While you may look at this as a stupid joke/prank. Southwest took a stance that this did not take place at all. The allegations are that not only did Southwest not present the truth they took punitive action agains the person that reported this event. While often the crime is not as bad as the coverup, it is the coverup that will paint the worst of the company. IF the FA has solid proof and IF she can present this evidence in court this will not favorable for WN or the pilots involved.
 
richierich
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:47 pm

Veigar wrote:
This is the weirdest thread I have ever read o_O


It hasn't got any better.
I don't know where this thread went off-topic, but it sure did in a big way.

If this incident happened as it has been alleged, then pilots should have known better in 2017. Much much better. This would have been a very serious breach of judgement, possibly crossing into a criminal complaint. Just because "pilots do this kind of stuff all the time" and "it's just boys being boys" is not an acceptable argument in this day and age. Fun is only fun if everybody agrees it was fun...apparently the FA felt quite differently about the alleged event.

Also, pilots are not glorified bus drivers. I am not a pilot by profession but I find that to be an incredibly insulting analogy. Bus drivers have an important job, that is to drive safely, but the amount of rules, regulations, procedures and complexity between driving a bus (something I actually did for a few years in college) and flying a modern airliner is not even worth mentioning together in the same breath. Let's move on.
None shall pass!!!!
 
kiowa
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:31 pm

mcdu wrote:
n92r03 wrote:
Perhaps a cry closet or other safe space is available for those that are offended. Good God people, lighten up a bit. This appears to be a stupid joke/prank.



While you may look at this as a stupid joke/prank. Southwest took a stance that this did not take place at all. The allegations are that not only did Southwest not present the truth they took punitive action agains the person that reported this event. While often the crime is not as bad as the coverup, it is the coverup that will paint the worst of the company. IF the FA has solid proof and IF she can present this evidence in court this will not favorable for WN or the pilots involved.


agreed, I guess the courts will decide or perhaps the FA will be bought off before it gets more bad press.
 
Babyshark
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:09 pm

This thread is very bizzare. But funny.

The prank was explained early on and so many people just sped right by it clueless and also super offended.

So if post 29 is right this was film yourself washing hands in lav on the ground. When the FA comes up in flight for bathroom break have video playing on ipad of hand washing. Claim you have a camera in the bathroom. You do??? Oh yeah. SWA requires us to monitor. They do???? Oh yeah. Send her back and after the flight... got you!!!!

Just people are clueless and didnt get it. Buy theyll watch Justin Timberlake get punked on MTV and think its awesome. And watch the bachelor and think.... no wait, not possible.

Anyways, yes pilots are overpaid bus drivers. Just like teachers are babysitters, wallstreet analysts are snake oil salesman, like accountants are overpaid calculators, dispatchers are desk jockeys, ceos are thieves, salesman are used car salesman, used car salesman are used car salesman and whatever you do is a joke too.

Just don't be upset one day when the engine blows apart on your airline flight compromising the jet and the Captain says its just too much and they quit trying and the FO is offended by the captain's tone and refuses to help.
 
mcdu
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:21 am

Babyshark wrote:
This thread is very bizzare. But funny.

The prank was explained early on and so many people just sped right by it clueless and also super offended.
p.


From the first article linked.
As such, Southwest does not place cameras in the lavatories of our aircraft. At this time, we have no other comment on the pending litigation,” the airline told the newspaper in a statement.


Southwest didn’t say it was a prank gone awry. They didn’t confirm it was a act that was commuted by their pilots in an attempt at humor. Maybe they should have just stripped naked and made ATC calls about the grannies and grandes they have to work with? Now that is funny...if you are a southwest pilot apparently.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:34 am

If this was indeed a prank, it really backfired.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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barney captain
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:47 pm

Babyshark wrote:
This thread is very bizzare. But funny.

The prank was explained early on and so many people just sped right by it clueless and also super offended.

So if post 29 is right this was film yourself washing hands in lav on the ground. When the FA comes up in flight for bathroom break have video playing on ipad of hand washing. Claim you have a camera in the bathroom. You do??? Oh yeah. SWA requires us to monitor. They do???? Oh yeah. Send her back and after the flight... got you!!!!

Just people are clueless and didnt get it. Buy theyll watch Justin Timberlake get punked on MTV and think its awesome. And watch the bachelor and think.... no wait, not possible.

Anyways, yes pilots are overpaid bus drivers. Just like teachers are babysitters, wallstreet analysts are snake oil salesman, like accountants are overpaid calculators, dispatchers are desk jockeys, ceos are thieves, salesman are used car salesman, used car salesman are used car salesman and whatever you do is a joke too.

Just don't be upset one day when the engine blows apart on your airline flight compromising the jet and the Captain says its just too much and they quit trying and the FO is offended by the captain's tone and refuses to help.


Bingo, and thank you. As confirmed by the pilots Union, this was nothing more than a selfie video of the Captain washing his hands. Oh the horror!

I'm certainly glad common sense and the facts dictated the investigation as opposed to the "Shoot ready aim" social media injustice warriors that rule the world today.

Curious (but not surprising) how the facts of this story are not being carried by the media.

The only thing offensive about this event was the way it was reported and subsequently buried.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
Fiend
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:00 am

NW747-400 wrote:
twinotter wrote:
Redd wrote:
Pilots are bus drivers the same way physicians are people mechanics..... lol


I've ridden the jumpseat. My opinion is based on direct observation.


Riding the jumpseat once on a blue sky day between two domestic stations is not a representative experience of what pilots do.

Some scenarios to consider:

You’re in the middle of the North Atlantic track system with aircraft all around you. You have a rapid depressurization and you need to get yourself safely away from traffic, down to 10,000’ and start a mid ocean diversion without the immediate help of an air traffic service. How would you do that?

You’re flying through Central America in mountainous terrain and you enter an unforecast area of volcanic ash and you’re in the verge of an all engine flameout. If you descend below FL200 you’ll hit a mountain. Now what?

You’re halfway between Hawai’i and the US mainland, which is the furthest distance you can be from an alternate airport. The flight attendant calls and reports they are fighting a fire in the cabin but they can’t locate the source and are not able to extinguish it. You’re two hours from landing. What are you going to do now?

You have a terrorist on board attempting to breach the flight deck. How are you going to handle that?

Nevermind all of the language barriers, different procedures for every country and every airport, constantly analyzing weather to make decisions regarding enroute diversions and approach / landing options, dealing with minor aircraft malfunctions and their impact on the operation (APU won’t start on your way to somewhere in the Caribbean that doesn’t have ground power and an air start), and the list goes on and on, all while managing the flight path of the aircraft and staying 10 minutes ahead of the aircraft at any given time.

I’m sure these situations are all very comparable to a bus driver in your eyes.

Side note regarding the topic at hand: I find this “prank” to be incredibly inappropriate. Some pranks are harmless and funny; this one is abhorrent. I’m shocked that someone actually thought of this plan and considered it funny.


And I guess you think that a bus/coach driver just drives... and only has to drive. :shakehead:
BAC 1-11, A300, A320, A321, A330, A340, A350, A380, B737, B747, B757, B777, B787, L1011, Fokker 100, ATR 72, MD83
 
kiowa
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:05 am

barney captain wrote:
Babyshark wrote:
This thread is very bizzare. But funny.

The prank was explained early on and so many people just sped right by it clueless and also super offended.

So if post 29 is right this was film yourself washing hands in lav on the ground. When the FA comes up in flight for bathroom break have video playing on ipad of hand washing. Claim you have a camera in the bathroom. You do??? Oh yeah. SWA requires us to monitor. They do???? Oh yeah. Send her back and after the flight... got you!!!!

Just people are clueless and didnt get it. Buy theyll watch Justin Timberlake get punked on MTV and think its awesome. And watch the bachelor and think.... no wait, not possible.

Anyways, yes pilots are overpaid bus drivers. Just like teachers are babysitters, wallstreet analysts are snake oil salesman, like accountants are overpaid calculators, dispatchers are desk jockeys, ceos are thieves, salesman are used car salesman, used car salesman are used car salesman and whatever you do is a joke too.

Just don't be upset one day when the engine blows apart on your airline flight compromising the jet and the Captain says its just too much and they quit trying and the FO is offended by the captain's tone and refuses to help.


Bingo, and thank you. As confirmed by the pilots Union, this was nothing more than a selfie video of the Captain washing his hands. Oh the horror!

I'm certainly glad common sense and the facts dictated the investigation as opposed to the "Shoot ready aim" social media injustice warriors that rule the world today.

Curious (but not surprising) how the facts of this story are not being carried by the media.

The only thing offensive about this event was the way it was reported and subsequently buried.


I am glad the pilots union was in the bathroom with the Southwest captain so we can get the Real story. -still he-said, she-said and still sounds bad. Perhaps the captain had been recording other passengers and the pilots union was not there to see it happen. "oh the horror!"
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:45 am

barney captain wrote:
Babyshark wrote:
This thread is very bizzare. But funny.

The prank was explained early on and so many people just sped right by it clueless and also super offended.

So if post 29 is right this was film yourself washing hands in lav on the ground. When the FA comes up in flight for bathroom break have video playing on ipad of hand washing. Claim you have a camera in the bathroom. You do??? Oh yeah. SWA requires us to monitor. They do???? Oh yeah. Send her back and after the flight... got you!!!!

Just people are clueless and didnt get it. Buy theyll watch Justin Timberlake get punked on MTV and think its awesome. And watch the bachelor and think.... no wait, not possible.

Anyways, yes pilots are overpaid bus drivers. Just like teachers are babysitters, wallstreet analysts are snake oil salesman, like accountants are overpaid calculators, dispatchers are desk jockeys, ceos are thieves, salesman are used car salesman, used car salesman are used car salesman and whatever you do is a joke too.

Just don't be upset one day when the engine blows apart on your airline flight compromising the jet and the Captain says its just too much and they quit trying and the FO is offended by the captain's tone and refuses to help.


Bingo, and thank you. As confirmed by the pilots Union, this was nothing more than a selfie video of the Captain washing his hands. Oh the horror!

I'm certainly glad common sense and the facts dictated the investigation as opposed to the "Shoot ready aim" social media injustice warriors that rule the world today.

Curious (but not surprising) how the facts of this story are not being carried by the media.

The only thing offensive about this event was the way it was reported and subsequently buried.


How does one combine having a pilots licence and being responsible for a lot of lives, with the mindset of a 14 year old? Do pilots ever grow up?
 
WNCrew
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:56 am

nagpaw wrote:
.... didn't TWU 556 (the SWA FA Union) get in trouble for inappropriately releasing the Captain's name, CASS photo, and address from the 2011 "hot mic" incident? And didn't the SWA flight attendants engage in a series of personal attacks against him and his family, including showing up at his house?


I wish I could speak to this, but I honestly don't know. I can't imagine that the FA Union would have any obligation to "protect" the name of... anyone at the company just as I wouldn't expect it of the Pilot's union. Both unions are (in essence) their own companies that function (while somewhat symbiotically) also separately from WN. Even if those things are true (and I don't condone them)... if they didn't occur at work IN the workplace, they aren't truly the same thing. Not liking the "reaction" to someone's behavior doesn't mean that the behavior itself it without fault. While a reaction may not be appropriate... it is in fact a reaction to something ELSE that came before.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
nagpaw
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:03 am

OK, I was just curious. Sorry, I already deleted that portion of my post since it was basically heresay. Thanks!
 
AABusDrvr
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:05 am

nagpaw wrote:
WNCrew wrote:
Yes... the "horror". Filming yourself in a RESTROOM is entirely inappropriate and borders on sexual harassment... though I'm sure these were both White Males so they get a free pass right? It's disturbing that they feel that they can even make jokes like this with people they do NOT know! They were at work, not at home. This isn't 1995 anymore... our society has made progress with not tolerating this kind of behavior; though apparently not enough progress.

In 2011 CA James Taylor made inappropriate comments about FAs which were made public because of a slip of his finger.... he was slapped on the wrist and retains his employment with WN. Here we have two more Pilots who behaved inappropriately and the Company states they made an "inappropriate attempt and humor" and their union states it was "a poor attempt at humor".... and yet, they ALSO retained their employment. I'm sure they were put on a paid leave (poor guys)... but at the end of the day... no consequences for ANY of these men!!! In some respects, it doesn't matter if this was a real video or not... what matters is that these Pilots (who are also Leaders in the field) felt that it was acceptable to "inappropriately attempt humor"... you had better believe if it were a Flight Attendant they'd be gone.


Original post edited because...never mind. There's no talking to some people.

My buddy says SWA's culture has changed for the worse, and that many pilots actively find ways to avoid the flight attendants on overnights. There's apparently even talk at SWAPA of negotiating separate hotels for the two groups. Seems like a shame, but I guess I can see why.

BTW, could someone change the title of this thread to match reality? Something like "SWA Pilots' Poor Attempt at Humor?"



Edited to remove original text. Should probably just delete the whole thing...



At my shop, most of the time the flight deck and cabin crews layover at different hotels. Even if we are at the same hotel, with the way things are today, we don't interact at all, outside the airplane. I don't miss the "old days" at all.
 
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barney captain
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:08 am

The Union and the company both saw the video of him fully clothed washing his hands, and determined it was a bunch of nothing. So it's hardly he-said she-said.

How that can be construed as harassment I have no idea.


That pales in comparison to some of the detailed subjects I've heard openly discussed by FAs on the van.

Again, where is the retraction/correction by the media after publicly naming these guys? Crickets.

Btw nagpaw, you're assessment of that situation is spot on. Thanks for some sanity.
Last edited by barney captain on Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
WNCrew
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:13 am

AABusDrvr wrote:

At my shop, most of the time the flight deck and cabin crews layover at different hotels. Even if we are at the same hotel, with the way things are today, we don't interact at all, outside the airplane. I don't miss the "old days" at all.


That's unfortunate. I enjoy 99% of the people I work with on 99% of my trips, but bad behavior from ALL workgroups also doesn't surprise me. If people want to assume I'm not worth their time that's their prerogative. The sad thing is though, while a bad FA makes for a bad Customer experience, a great FA is the reason people come back again and again. Unfortunately they don't get much interaction with the Pilots but they do with the cabin crew, and I work very hard to ensure the guests are happy... but I also know that they're happy in large part due to my efforts. Not to take anything FROM the Pilots' contributions but let's be honest; Customers expect the Pilot will take off and land.... it's their interactions enroute that make up the bulk of their experience.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
WNCrew
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:14 am

barney captain wrote:
The Union and the company both saw the video of him fully clothed washing his hands, and determined it was a bunch of nothing. So it's hardly he-said she-said.

How that can be construed as harassment I have no idea.


You proved my point for me! The fact the you "have no idea" is entirely the problem.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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barney captain
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:48 am

Ok wn, you win, everyone else is wrong.

And you wonder why the culture died.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:48 am

WNCrew wrote:
kiowa wrote:
VS11 wrote:

Unbelievable how crass some employees of Southwest are. Do you have to be a redneck to work there? I remember several years ago, a conversation was recorded in a Southwest cockpit (stuck mic or something) and one of the pilots who was married was rambling on and on some homophobic rants because he couldn’t get laid because the cabin crew were gay men and unattractive (according to him) women.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/pilots-rant-f ... d=13903790


That was pretty poor behavior too. Perhaps these are the same Southwest pilots.



and the fact that barney captain thinks it's all laughable... it says EVERYTHING about the CULT we work for ... same can be said for WN operating an alternate fleet type. They've NO CLUE what they're doing outside of the 737 ( and barely that)... but you know, profit equals intelligence and experience, just like society. Let's get one thing clear, MONEY is NOT equatable to knowledge... PERIOD.


I’ve been here a long time and so have you...why/how/when did you become so bitter?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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airportugal310
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:56 am

This dynamic of (presumably) WN crews arguing about their own employers culture is actually just as interesting as everything else, I’m finding...
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
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barney captain
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:04 am

Well said Silver.

How many times over the last few decades have I heard FAs make the PA "tampering with the smoke detectors or video camera in our lavs is a Federal offense".

It's a JOKE. We were once known for not taking ourselves too seriously.

Sorry Herb.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
BravoOne
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:19 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
barney captain wrote:
Babyshark wrote:
This thread is very bizzare. But funny.

The prank was explained early on and so many people just sped right by it clueless and also super offended.

So if post 29 is right this was film yourself washing hands in lav on the ground. When the FA comes up in flight for bathroom break have video playing on ipad of hand washing. Claim you have a camera in the bathroom. You do??? Oh yeah. SWA requires us to monitor. They do???? Oh yeah. Send her back and after the flight... got you!!!!

Just people are clueless and didnt get it. Buy theyll watch Justin Timberlake get punked on MTV and think its awesome. And watch the bachelor and think.... no wait, not possible.

Anyways, yes pilots are overpaid bus drivers. Just like teachers are babysitters, wallstreet analysts are snake oil salesman, like accountants are overpaid calculators, dispatchers are desk jockeys, ceos are thieves, salesman are used car salesman, used car salesman are used car salesman and whatever you do is a joke too.

Just don't be upset one day when the engine blows apart on your airline flight compromising the jet and the Captain says its just too much and they quit trying and the FO is offended by the captain's tone and refuses to help.


Bingo, and thank you. As confirmed by the pilots Union, this was nothing more than a selfie video of the Captain washing his hands. Oh the horror!

I'm certainly glad common sense and the facts dictated the investigation as opposed to the "Shoot ready aim" social media injustice warriors that rule the world today.

Curious (but not surprising) how the facts of this story are not being carried by the media.

The only thing offensive about this event was the way it was reported and subsequently buried.


How does one combine having a pilots licence and being responsible for a lot of lives, with the mindset of a 14 year old? Do pilots ever grow up?



Congratulations as you just broke the code and that's why the job can be so much fun!!
 
kiowa
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:21 pm

barney captain wrote:
Well said Silver.

How many times over the last few decades have I heard FAs make the PA "tampering with the smoke detectors or video camera in our lavs is a Federal offense".

It's a JOKE. We were once known for not taking ourselves too seriously.

Sorry Herb.


Being a commercial pilot is serious. This pilot is the JOKE.
 
DDR
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:35 pm

I do not believe there was anything sexual or inappropriate that happened. It was just a crew member playing a joke on another crew member. It is too bad that someone felt "wronged." Flying trips used to be a lot more fun "back in the day."
 
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DeltaMD90
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:40 am

I agree with many... Bizarre thread.

I will finally have my qualifications for being a airline pilot for the big 4 in a couple years, Delta being my #1 choice obviously, but I've been thinking about my #2. A reason I like DL is the culture and I thought WN would be an easy #2... But after this thread I'm caught off guard...

Is the culture at WN really this strained and toxic, or is it a few people? I mean I wouldn't pull a joke like this (assuming if it was a video of washing hands) because of reactions like we are seeing... but I mean, come on, lighten up people... (and this is coming from someone that has almost come to blows with someone that totally would've beaten me up so I could help out a girl being sexually harassed and possibly more. I'm no fan of making women uncomfortable and think they routinely put up with a lot of shit)
 
WNCrew
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:29 pm

DeltaMD90 wrote:
Is the culture at WN really this strained and toxic, or is it a few people? I mean I wouldn't pull a joke like this (assuming if it was a video of washing hands) because of reactions like we are seeing... but I mean, come on, lighten up people...


No, I wouldn't say the culture is toxic at all. I still love my job and 99% of the interactions I have with fellow employees are positive and enjoyable... what I WILL say is that many FAs are frustrated that yet again a Pilot has been able to get away with inappropriate behavior and the FA was dealing with retaliation form the Company; it looks like a double standard to many of us. While others on here have said they won't "sponsor" Flight Attendants anymore, or have commented that they will avoid or continue to avoid us; I don't and won't do the same in return. Even those wanting to stay in different hotels ... that just drips of pretension. Pilots are to be LEADERS out in the field in many respects and unfortunately some here are not professional (the same can be said for FAs).

Where I DO think the culture has gone awry is that they let "casual" and "relaxed" and "fun" bleed into certain areas where it doesn't belong allowing people too much latitude with how they chose to behave. This creates a sense of entitlement among employees who then bristle at any sort of "rule" or "standard" and view it as a restriction or as having "less freedom" and that simply isn't true. Perhaps some of those freedoms shouldn't ever have been allowed in the first place. I am still grateful for my job and I work very VERY hard (much more than I should have to at times) but the posts below are exactly the point I've been trying to make;


richierich wrote:
JAAlbert wrote:
barney captain wrote:


Good lord - THERE WAS NO CAMERA.


Thanks for screaming. And what? Did I miss something? The article alleges she saw live streaming video from the pilot's iPad while he was in the lavatory.

Ah, I now see the SWA post (after mine) in which the airline says it was all a prank. If that is so (the link to the 3d article isn't working), it makes the pilots' behavior only incrementally less offensive. The conduct is still outrageous -- those guys actually had to plan and work this whole thing out to pull it off. And, given that it involves a purported surreptitious camera hidden in the lav, a stunt that has victimized women in other situations, this is an easy sex harassment case. But the real question becomes, if this is a "prank," what sort of juvenile pilots are these? What kind of man thinks this is all in good fun? And who is flying the damn plane through all this nonsense?

Feel free to scream your replies.


Completely agree. This sounds like it was a terrible, quite possibly criminal, act disguised as a prank, and it is frankly a little disturbing that a large airline with the public image of WN would even remotely try to downplay this to the point of dismissal. I guess they just don't want this in the media.

I don't want to get into a pissing match (pun intended) with people who feel that this was a harmless prank, but clearly based on the lawsuit it was much much more than that. At the very least, I find the opinion that it was FA's fault (that it took 2-3 years to file said lawsuit) to be nothing more than victim-shaming and this disturbs me almost as much as the event itself, even assuming it was an elaborate 'prank.' Yes, there is due process and, yes, we don't know all the facts or what the pilot/FO have to say, but based on what we do know, anybody defending the actions of the flight crew - or worse, blaming the FA - is part of the problem. Have we not learned anything in the last few years?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Sokes
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:31 am

barney captain wrote:
Babyshark wrote:
This thread is very bizzare. But funny.

The prank was explained early on and so many people just sped right by it clueless and also super offended.

...


Bingo, and thank you. As confirmed by the pilots Union, this was nothing more than a selfie video of the Captain washing his hands. Oh the horror!

I'm certainly glad common sense and the facts dictated the investigation as opposed to the "Shoot ready aim" social media injustice warriors that rule the world today.

Curious (but not surprising) how the facts of this story are not being carried by the media.

The only thing offensive about this event was the way it was reported and subsequently buried.


I guess hand washing doesn't qualify for exhibitionism. My apologies for blowing this out of proportion. When I posted, the discussion so far sounded quite dramatic. But I should have really given more weight to the credibility of the original source. My bad.

I appreciate Babyshark can see the light side to it.

Unrelated to handwashing one more thought about "acting out":
30 years or so back I read about a town in Spain. Apparently every four years there is a fight in which people of different streets fight against each other. Obviously one wouldn't be allowed to kick the teeth in, but it sounded like real hammering. It was claimed that this town had one of the lowest criminality rates in Spain. I can't find anything in google. Can somebody from Spain reject or confirm this claim? Enough fake news for today.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
737max8
Posts: 668
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:17 am

[Can we change the thread title since it has been learned there was no camera in the lav?

The funny thing is everyone in this thread might fly with each other and have a great trip and have no clue what user names are :D
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
Flown on: 717 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 7M8 744 744ER 752 753 762 763 772 773ER 788 789 A220 A319/20/21 A332 A333 A339 A343 A346 A359 A388
 
VS11
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:05 am

What difference does it make that the video showed him washing hands? The intent was to terrorize the viewer by making them believe they are being watched in the bathroom - this is a form of bullying. The more I read the Southwest apologists here the more I am put off from ever flying that airline. It feels most pilots there lack basic social skills. What’s next - pilots playing a prank by simulating MCAS activation when the MAX8 is back in service? Should be a lot of harmless fun.....
 
speedbird52
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:04 am

barney captain wrote:
DenverTed wrote:
Southwest says they don't put cameras in bathrooms.
Ya, great answer. Whoever came up with that response is an idiot.
The issue is whether they did a thorough investigation to the allegation of a serious crime.


What crime? Its a stupid (admittedly) prank where one records themselves earlier in the lav (no revealing views) and lets the intended target "discover" it later when the prankster again use the facilities - making them think it's a live feed instead of recorded video. The only person recorded was the person doing the prank.

A prank as old as the hills (or at least as old as cameras on phones) and hardly unique to one airline.

How the media doesn't understand any of that is unbelievable.

That isn't a prank. That is terrifying for someone to find. Imagine how much worse this would be if someone who had been a victim of sexual abuse was the one who discovered the video?
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:53 am

If there’s anything I’ve learned from my years in the industry, on this site and on social media, reacting to stories in the news and attempting to bring context in an effort to correct the reported details, you’re going to be accused of defending the wrong side of the story.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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barney captain
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:56 am

Silver1SWA wrote:
If there’s anything I’ve learned from my years in the industry, on this site and on social media, reacting to stories in the news and attempting to bring context in an effort to correct the reported details, you’re going to be accused of defending the wrong side of the story.


Yup.

Ask the President of TWU 556.
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DenverTed
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:07 pm

Silver1SWA wrote:
If there’s anything I’ve learned from my years in the industry, on this site and on social media, reacting to stories in the news and attempting to bring context in an effort to correct the reported details, you’re going to be accused of defending the wrong side of the story.

Assuming it is true that the pilots were making a joke about filming in a lavatory, that goes beyond "inappropriate humor". Highly illegal behavior or life and death stuff is simply not something to joke about. What is the appropriate punishment? What did Southwest do? Now that it is public knowlege, Southwest has some interest in defending their corporate integrity. Do they have control over their employess, or is it just romper room and jokeland?
 
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longhauler
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:32 pm

Silver1SWA wrote:
If there’s anything I’ve learned from my years in the industry, on this site and on social media, reacting to stories in the news and attempting to bring context in an effort to correct the reported details, you’re going to be accused of defending the wrong side of the story.


Hear hear!

Let's face it, with regard to social media, the public when given a choice between the (less horrific) truth and something inluding shock and horror, will go for the horror every time. Even though the "truth" is far more believable. And, the news media eats it up. The thought of cameras in a lav will sell far more ads and generate far more clicks than the more believable truth.

This thread showed it in spades! Even though Barney Captain gave us a very plausible explanation .... most on here chose to believe otherwise. For the record, that "prank" has been around for at least a decade. I have even seen it with "cameras" purported to be in overhead bins, closets, galleys and even on the wing tip of the aircraft itself. It's not new.

But ... think about "pranks" themselves. Is it professional? My partner is a surgeon and hospital pranks are played on each other all the time. I can think of no more professional a group than a team of health care workers saving someone's life. My son is a fire-fighter ... same thing there. I hear it is the same with the legal profession, law enforcement ... even educators.

So what's the deal? Historically, "teams" work better, with better results when inclusion in that team is enforced. And among other ways, playing pranks on each other sets up the whole team spirit. I am not surprised therefore, that Southwest Airlines encouraged it in the past. Not only will that team of Pilots and Flight Attendants work better together, but as an added bonus, it brings out an image to the passengers of camaraderie and fun. That image has often been copied and is a part of the "Southwest Model" we have heard so much about. As I live close to BUF, I often fly Southwest and that mood of fun is still there. Not to mention that Southwest has an enviable safety record. Namely ... it works.

Sad though that today's "offended snowflakes" are bothered by it. But I have to wonder though. Looking at the reports of this incident I am curious of the reaction of the Flight Attendant on who the prank was played. Why her reaction was so forceful. One almost has to chuckle that if she went to her immediate superior crying that she was "pranked" .... the response may well have been "What, are you new here?" Today, that is not an appropriate HR response. But reading further, apparently she said to Southwest more than once that they don't want her to report this to the media as it would not look good. It almost sounded like a threat.

I remember though, 30 years ago, life circumstances allowed me to apply to Southwest as a pilot. I was currently flying 737s for Canadian Airlines, enjoying it, but we were teetering on bankruptcy. I was sent an information package that included a brochure with a picture of Herb Kelleher dressed as Elvis on the cover. Opening the brochure on page one was the notation .... "Yes, that is Herb Kelleher dressed up. Sometimes he comes to board meetings dressed as Ethel Merman! We try to discourage him but ... if that bothers you, you may not fit in at Southwest. (I couldn't sign up fast enough!).
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
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barney captain
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:40 pm

Longhauler -

That was perfect.

You stated so well what I have been hopelessly attempting to.

You would have been a great addition over here. :bigthumbsup:
Southeast Of Disorder
 
smartplane
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:39 pm

longhauler wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:
If there’s anything I’ve learned from my years in the industry, on this site and on social media, reacting to stories in the news and attempting to bring context in an effort to correct the reported details, you’re going to be accused of defending the wrong side of the story.


Hear hear!

Let's face it, with regard to social media, the public when given a choice between the (less horrific) truth and something inluding shock and horror, will go for the horror every time. Even though the "truth" is far more believable. And, the news media eats it up. The thought of cameras in a lav will sell far more ads and generate far more clicks than the more believable truth.

This thread showed it in spades! Even though Barney Captain gave us a very plausible explanation .... most on here chose to believe otherwise. For the record, that "prank" has been around for at least a decade. I have even seen it with "cameras" purported to be in overhead bins, closets, galleys and even on the wing tip of the aircraft itself. It's not new.

But ... think about "pranks" themselves. Is it professional? My partner is a surgeon and hospital pranks are played on each other all the time. I can think of no more professional a group than a team of health care workers saving someone's life. My son is a fire-fighter ... same thing there. I hear it is the same with the legal profession, law enforcement ... even educators.

So what's the deal? Historically, "teams" work better, with better results when inclusion in that team is enforced. And among other ways, playing pranks on each other sets up the whole team spirit. I am not surprised therefore, that Southwest Airlines encouraged it in the past. Not only will that team of Pilots and Flight Attendants work better together, but as an added bonus, it brings out an image to the passengers of camaraderie and fun. That image has often been copied and is a part of the "Southwest Model" we have heard so much about. As I live close to BUF, I often fly Southwest and that mood of fun is still there. Not to mention that Southwest has an enviable safety record. Namely ... it works.

Sad though that today's "offended snowflakes" are bothered by it. But I have to wonder though. Looking at the reports of this incident I am curious of the reaction of the Flight Attendant on who the prank was played. Why her reaction was so forceful. One almost has to chuckle that if she went to her immediate superior crying that she was "pranked" .... the response may well have been "What, are you new here?" Today, that is not an appropriate HR response. But reading further, apparently she said to Southwest more than once that they don't want her to report this to the media as it would not look good. It almost sounded like a threat.

I remember though, 30 years ago, life circumstances allowed me to apply to Southwest as a pilot. I was currently flying 737s for Canadian Airlines, enjoying it, but we were teetering on bankruptcy. I was sent an information package that included a brochure with a picture of Herb Kelleher dressed as Elvis on the cover. Opening the brochure on page one was the notation .... "Yes, that is Herb Kelleher dressed up. Sometimes he comes to board meetings dressed as Ethel Merman! We try to discourage him but ... if that bothers you, you may not fit in at Southwest. (I couldn't sign up fast enough!).

Pranks are about power. The 'pranksters' have power, and the 'prankees' don't. It perpetuates bullying. The 'prankees' of today, are the 'pranksters' of tomorrow.

Try a prank on your board of directors, or senior management, and check out their sense of humour. What would the outcome be if the cabin crew pranked the pilots?

Many decades ago when working for a European bank, a colleague and I concluded an aviation transaction which generated millions of dollars in front end fees and ongoing margins for our employer. Our boss made a comment in front of the team, about the two of us having earned a free trip on Concorde. We already had some leave scheduled, so the next day we booked a return trip to NY through the bank's travel agent. On checking in for our return flight, we were advised our tickets were not valid. Until we made arrangements with our employer to repay the cost of the flights, we were stranded in NY. Our boss thought that was a great prank, but didn't let us in on the secret until later when he added the return fare cost to our quarterly bonus. Meantime we let it be known we were ready to move on, and accepted new jobs effective from when our performance bonuses were paid. Prank!!
 
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longhauler
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:20 pm

smartplane wrote:
Try a prank on your board of directors, or senior management, and check out their sense of humour. What would the outcome be if the cabin crew pranked the pilots?

Sadly, it is very difficult to upload a picture into message threads now, or, I would show you a recent prank played on me (The Captain) by one of the Flight Attendants. It was an open can of cat food, sitting nicely on the Air Canada Business Class royal doulton china, properly garnished (of course) for my dinner. The outcome? I was still laughing at the NAT exit point. You see, my thought has always been that if you were going to dish it out, you better be prepared to take it too!

Or, with no pictures allowed, the time I walked into secondary screening at Customs with a HUGE dildo and ladies undergarments in my overnight case ... placed there by a Flight Attendant. (different flight). Honestly, I thought the funniest part was the look on the face of the Customs Officer who was mortified! Until I said, in all sincerity, "you don't honestly think there's somewhere on my body that would fit do you????". The thing belonged in movies and I can't imagine where she got it!

But that was my point before. It's all in the team, within the team. Your point about the playing a prank on the Board of Directors would not be appropriate ... they are not part of the team. Also, with reference to your tickets on Concorde ... that is another facet of a well played prank, in that you don't let it go on too long or too far. In my opinion, the prank should be "solved" almost immediately.

And on an airplane, or in an operational environment, it usually is .... we don't get to spend a lot of time together.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
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Revelation
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:14 pm

barney captain wrote:
Congratulations, the culture you once revered has been permanently damaged. You can now buy everything on your overnights - I will no longer sponsor any of you.

This reads as "Since you won't put up with my pranks, I'm not going to buy you meals/drinks down route any more".

I bet most of the prankees are happy to have the arrangement be that they will not be pranked and they will pay for their own meals/drinks.

smartplane wrote:
Pranks are about power. The 'pranksters' have power, and the 'prankees' don't. It perpetuates bullying. The 'prankees' of today, are the 'pranksters' of tomorrow.

:checkmark:

The culture seems to be "You let me be an overbearing ass, and I'll buy you drinks/meals".

The culture should be "We are all professionals doing difficult jobs, let's treat each other as such".

The main thrust of the lawsuit is not the camera itself, it is:

The suit alleges the Steinakers have faced retaliation through stalking, being monitored by managers in a "threatening and bizarre manner" and being subjected to an increased number of performance audits.
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barney captain
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:31 pm

smartplane wrote:
What would the outcome be if the cabin crew pranked the pilots?


Seriously??????

You've clearly never worked in the airline biz.

Just a short list of what I've experienced -

1) Been congratulated over the PA by the FA's that it was my birthday - only to have them announce my age as 102.

2) Walked out of the cockpit unknowingly wearing a Maxi-pad affixed to the top of my hat.

3) Been told there was a crack in a passenger window and to take a close look on the pre-flight....only to look up and see a bare ass.

4) Been locked in the forward lav (on the ground).

5) Be in the middle of a PA when the FA runs up and sticks a wet finger in my ear.

Those are just off the top of my head.

Some other classics include -

Having the target run around the cabin with a trash bag collecting "air samples". Telling the target there's a mouse loose on the plane and tell them to catch it in a box. You then have random groups of pax scream at the presence of said mouse (that doesn't exist). The best? Having all the crew but one standing with pee in cups explaining we're all getting urine tested. The mark has to go in the lav and produce a like sample. When they exit, all the rest of the crew simultaneously drinks their pee. It was apple juice.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
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barney captain
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:35 pm

Revelation wrote:
barney captain wrote:
Congratulations, the culture you once revered has been permanently damaged. You can now buy everything on your overnights - I will no longer sponsor any of you.

This reads as "Since you won't put up with my pranks, I'm not going to buy you meals/drinks down route any more".

I bet most of the prankees are happy to have the arrangement be that they will not be pranked and they will pay for their own meals/drinks.


I never do pranks but I usually do (did) buy everything - one has nothing to do with the other.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
MrBretz
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Sun Nov 03, 2019 12:01 am

Barney captain, I am having a good laugh. Luckily the 2 FAs who filed the suit weren’t on one of your flights.
 
WNCrew
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:03 am

MrBretz wrote:
Barney captain, I am having a good laugh. Luckily the 2 FAs who filed the suit weren’t on one of your flights.


Yes, luckily.....
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
asr0dzjq
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:09 am

barney captain wrote:
WNCrew wrote:
kiowa wrote:

That was pretty poor behavior too. Perhaps these are the same Southwest pilots.



and the fact that barney captain thinks it's all laughable... it says EVERYTHING about the CULT we work for ... same can be said for WN operating an alternate fleet type. They've NO CLUE what they're doing outside of the 737 ( and barely that)... but you know, profit equals intelligence and experience, just like society. Let's get one thing clear, MONEY is NOT equatable to knowledge... PERIOD.


I never stated or implied that.

You insult me, and those of us in your charge.

Congratulations, the culture you once revered has been permanently damaged. You can now buy everything on your overnights - I will no longer sponsor any of you.

Let me grab some popcorn. This will be fun. :biggrin:
R.I.P. Douglas Aircraft Company
Born 22 July 1921 | Died 23 May 2006
You will be missed, but your management will not.
 
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barney captain
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:54 am

MrBretz wrote:
Barney captain, I am having a good laugh. Luckily the 2 FAs who filed the suit weren’t on one of your flights.



Again - to be abundantly clear - I DO NOT DO PRANKS.

Although as mentioned, I have been the "victim" of many, which I thought then and think now, were quite harmless and fun.

"Take your jobs seriously, but not yourselves". We once had a great man that made that statement.


Image
Southeast Of Disorder
 
ikramerica
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:04 am

DDR wrote:
I do not believe there was anything sexual or inappropriate that happened. It was just a crew member playing a joke on another crew member. It is too bad that someone felt "wronged." Flying trips used to be a lot more fun "back in the day."

Yes, it was a joke. And had they owned up to it right then, no harm.

But if you let the FA go the whole trip thinking that the pilots have been watching the crew and pax pee and poop, it rises to the level of an offense. It’s psychological harassment.

Frankly, as a pax I always found the comedy culture at WN to be unprofessional. I don’t want the class clown in charge of my safety.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
WNCrew
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:19 am

barney captain wrote:
MrBretz wrote:
Barney captain, I am having a good laugh. Luckily the 2 FAs who filed the suit weren’t on one of your flights.



Again - to be abundantly clear - I DO NOT DO PRANKS.

Although as mentioned, I have been the "victim" of many, which I thought then and think now, were quite harmless and fun.

"Take your jobs seriously, but not yourselves". We once had a great man that made that statement.


Image



Herb NEVER would've allowed it.. and Captain James Taylor would be LONG gone under Herb's reign. Sadly that's not the case.... and INAPPROPRIATE behavior (and not just in the form of poorly executed humor) are still the norm.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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barney captain
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:35 am

Curious you keep bringing his name up. It's also curious that a private conversation would have forever stayed that way if the FA union hadn't released the tapes. But that's another rabbit hole I won't go down.

Speaking of conversations, I was recently on the crew van and myself and everyone on-board were subjected to the very graphic sexual details of two male FA's who were clearly partners. When another crewmember asked them to stop, they became visibly offended. Oh the irony.

Wn, those are some pretty big stones you keep throwing in that glass house of yours, considering some the behavior I'VE witnessed over the years from your side of the door.

I'm now done with this subject.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
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intrance
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:26 am

Small jokes are one thing, joking about being able to see someone in a supposedly private area is something else. Could have perhaps been saved by clearing it up two minutes later and letting the FA in on the prank.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of pilots with a mindset of a horny teenager. I’ve once encountered pilots doing push-ups in the aisle to impress a young lady on the cabin crew, or “teaching” the cabin crew a sentence in a language she did not know that translated to “I want to suck your ****” while claiming it meant something innocent like goodmorning... all the while secretly filming that and sending it to their mates. Some people are simply jackasses.

These kind of jokes have no place in the working environment while onboard the plane. There’s plenty of more innocent jokes that will build team spirit. These SWA pilots need to grow up a bit.
 
TheOldDude
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:23 pm

What a bizarre thread! It stays well away from the substance of the complaint -- Southwest's action toward the complainants -- and focuses on whether the pilots actions were benign or worthy of termination. Following the latter point I wonder how many on this board would support the establishment of re-education camps to house people that offend someone else, and keep the people there until their thinking matches the offended people's mindset. Nothing would have to be invented to create such a camp, it's all been done before.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:02 pm

barney captain wrote:
Revelation wrote:
barney captain wrote:
Congratulations, the culture you once revered has been permanently damaged. You can now buy everything on your overnights - I will no longer sponsor any of you.

This reads as "Since you won't put up with my pranks, I'm not going to buy you meals/drinks down route any more".

I bet most of the prankees are happy to have the arrangement be that they will not be pranked and they will pay for their own meals/drinks.


I never do pranks but I usually do (did) buy everything - one has nothing to do with the other.

Yes, but you chose the thread about pranks to make your haughty announcement about no longer sponsoring others, it's hard to avoid making the connection between the two.

Hey, if the thread and the changing climate it portrays drove you to the point of changing your policies that's fine, but no need to go "nah nah nah nah you pissed me off so I won't be buying any more".

Just do it, and move on.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
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Revelation
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Re: Southwest pilots allegedly placed hidden camera in lavatory

Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:26 pm

twinotter wrote:
Pilots are bus drivers in a machine with wings.

There is that little 2D vs 3D aspect of the job, right? Running out of fuel in bus is really not the same as running out of fuel in an airplane, right? And remind us of how those bus drivers get put into a bus sim every six months with an examiner and with a bad day ending your career. Or take a medical exam once a year with the possibility of ending your career right then and there. All this after many years of hard work and lots of money even to get the job in the first place.

But yeah, this does not mean the skygod mentality is justified, it just means your analogy is way off.

And if they really are "skygods" they should understand that pulling pranks is a poor way of showing leadership especially in today's cultural climate.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own

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