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EL-AL
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Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:34 am

Ukraine International Airlines, which has expanded significantly since the collapse of Aerosvit in 2013 yet still losing money, announced some route cuts in its winter schedule: the airline will axe flights to PEK, AMM, RIX & MSQ altogether; BKK will reduce to 3 flights a week (instead of 4 or 5, Im not sure) and the busiest route, KBP-TLV, will be 3 daily instead of 4 daily.

Fleet cuts also: Plans for 4th 777 are on hold, the airline retire its 767 fleet until 2020. This, in addition to classic 737s (-300 & -500) retired in 2018. The airline has order for 3 737MAX which are currently grounded.

My 2 cents: the airline must improve its customer service because I hear from many passengers flying with PS the same thing: "never again". Flight cancellations, rude ground crews, no answer from customer service and gate charges for luggage that make Ryanair look like Swiss. Better customer service will lead to more returning passengers.

https://www.kyivpost.com/business/uia-c ... reloaded=1
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Blerg
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:05 am

My guess is that their finances took a hit when Wizz Air and Ryanair started expanding aggressively in Ukraine. This meant that it became increasingly difficult to maintain underperforming routes such as AMM, RIX or MSQ. As for PEK, I wonder if not being able to overfly Russia played a key role in the route's demise.
 
a350lover
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:10 am

Blerg wrote:
My guess is that their finances took a hit when Wizz Air and Ryanair started expanding aggressively in Ukraine. This meant that it became increasingly difficult to maintain underperforming routes such as AMM, RIX or MSQ.


However, Ryanair and Wizz do not fly these routes. Just IEV-RIX on Wizz.
 
Blerg
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:18 am

a350lover wrote:
Blerg wrote:
My guess is that their finances took a hit when Wizz Air and Ryanair started expanding aggressively in Ukraine. This meant that it became increasingly difficult to maintain underperforming routes such as AMM, RIX or MSQ.


However, Ryanair and Wizz do not fly these routes. Just IEV-RIX on Wizz.


I never said they were directly competing. They probably took away quite a few passengers from UIA on other routes thus lowering their overall revenue and profits and in such a way making it more difficult to operate loss-making routes elsewhere.
 
a350lover
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:22 am

Blerg wrote:

I never said they were directly competing. They probably took away quite a few passengers from UIA on other routes thus lowering their overall revenue and profits and in such a way making it more difficult to operate loss-making routes elsewhere.


True. I agree UIA has been all alone for many years in their home base setting the rules of the market just for the benefit of themselves.
 
Blerg
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:25 am

a350lover wrote:
Blerg wrote:

I never said they were directly competing. They probably took away quite a few passengers from UIA on other routes thus lowering their overall revenue and profits and in such a way making it more difficult to operate loss-making routes elsewhere.


True. I agree UIA has been all alone for many years in their home base setting the rules of the market just for the benefit of themselves.


Exactly and like it was mentioned above, their onboard and on-ground experience is quite bad so they can't charge more than they already do, people are not willing to pay a bit more to fly with them.
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:33 am

I found them pretty good the first time when they flew the Embraer from London to Kiev. However, later they changed it to a 737 and that is far less comfortable. Also, for some reason their on-line check-in didn't work and I had to spend an hour in a totally disorganised queue amongst people that had to pay for baggage (which apart from being expensive, takes ages).
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:42 am

I think apart from this, UIA are going to be in for a shock over the next 12 months as Ryanair and Wizz gain increasing market share in flights between Ukrain and Western Europe - not only Kiev routes but also provincial cities as well
 
salmonh
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:31 am

Might be an opportunity for Tarom to put one of those A330s they've been perpetually thinking about using to good use with a Beijing route. But first I suppose they'd have to find someone willing to accept the position of CEO, lol.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:58 am

Big-stakes political maneuvering, IMHO.
PS was hurt badly by Russian invasion, with loss of normal routing to its non-Russian eastwards destinations, loss of market in Russia. Plus invasion physically cut off Donetsk and Luhansk regions, where local airports are destroyed and/or under occupation of Ruskies and their proxies. Ditto for Simferopol. It all represents massive loss of business and high costs (for example, some weeks ago, PS abandoned flying to Kazakhstan with their own metal -- it's impossible to compete, when PS routing forces them to fly 2+ hrs longer than that of Air Astana).

Now, separately from that, PS is preparing to retire its four-strong 767-300ER fleet (this was in planning for years now). This is a serious loss of long-haul capacity (four out of seven frames altogether, remaining three being 777-200ER), and like-for-like replacement cannot be had. At least, not cheaply.

To top it all, PS is losing money(officially, at least) and is presenting Ukrainian government with (more or less) an ultimatum -- a source of money is to be found, to underwrite loss of competitiveness, forced upon PS. Or PS will continue to hurt, and connectivity will continue to decrease.
Previously, PS maneuvered themselves into a situation, where they are an important part of the transportation backbone of the country. As a long-term customer, I am both impressed by the progress in terms of size, and saddened by deterioration of service quality along the way.

Now, political games begin. It looks like one of main shareholders of PS (and a behind-the-scenes promoter), Mr. Kolomoysky, managed to get his people elected both into the parliament (majority party "Sluga Narodu") and into the presidential office (incumbent president Mr. Zelensky). Let's see if he manages (not personally, of course; there are multiple mouthpieces for that) to state the case for government support convincingly enough, and actually get it approved.
Step 1 is already on the way -- the government offered to cut VAT from domestic flying. PS is the obvious main beneficiary, though Motor-Sich (and now SkyUp, once they launch domestic flying) are to benefit too.
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debonair
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:36 am

EL-AL wrote:
Ukraine International Airlines ... the airline will axe flights to PEK, AMM, RIX & MSQ altogether

Fleet cuts also: Plans for 4th 777 are on hold, the airline retire its 767 fleet until 2020.

My 2 cents: the airline must improve its customer service because I hear from many passengers flying with PS the same thing: "never again".


Not true at all, PEK will NOT be axed - it is just due to political reasons with Russia "temporarily suspended". Other improvements will see KBP re-build as a true hub-and-spoke airport with 2 banks, one in the morning and one in the evening. Toronto and New York will also see changes.

And, no - the B767-300ER will stay for med-haul routes, like Delhi (see also summer timetable 2020):
"Kyiv – Delhi – Kyiv flights will be operated on Boeing 767 aircraft."

source: https://www.flyuia.com/de/en/news/2019/ ... ht-program

:twocents: I thought, I will regret my flights to KBP booked on UIA this year - but as it turned out, this was one of my best flights ever in the last couple of years. The crew was not only friendly and very attentive - but had the highest safety standards I have seen in many years of travelling. Actually, they put LH & Co. to shame! Not only that they re-seated passengers, despite their paid seat reservation, to have better able bodied persons at all exits, they even made sure, that everyone was listening and following their safety demonstration.
 
Blerg
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:03 pm

Seems like other routes will see additional cuts as well.

CDG becomes daily, 19.30 departure is suspended.
BRU becomes daily, afternoon and evening departures are suspended.
FCO becomes daily, evening flights are cut.

So it seems cuts are taking place all around. This will seriously impact connectivity. I am sure other airlines are celebrating after today.
 
debonair
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:55 pm

Blerg wrote:
Seems like other routes will see additional cuts as well.

CDG becomes daily, 19.30 departure is suspended.
BRU becomes daily, afternoon and evening departures are suspended.
FCO becomes daily, evening flights are cut.

So it seems cuts are taking place all around. This will seriously impact connectivity. I am sure other airlines are celebrating after today.


You have to read the PR I linked to understand the new "wave"-concept for better connecting:

All UIA flights to destinations of Western Europe will be operated during the daytime :alert: : departure from Kyiv is scheduled between 9:30 and 10:30 a.m.; arrival to Kyiv is scheduled between 5:30 and 6:30 p.m. local time. ...

All UIA flights to Cairo, Dubai, Ankara, Izmir, Yerevan, Baku, and Tehran will be operated at nighttime: departure from Kyiv is scheduled between 8:00 and 9:00 p.m.; arrival to Kyiv is scheduled between 07:30 and 08:45 a.m. local time. Flights to Tel Aviv, Istanbul, and Tbilisi will be operated several times per day.
 
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lesfalls
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:50 pm

If i'm not mistaken I heard that they are also increasing MAD?
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Blerg
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:12 pm

debonair wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Seems like other routes will see additional cuts as well.

CDG becomes daily, 19.30 departure is suspended.
BRU becomes daily, afternoon and evening departures are suspended.
FCO becomes daily, evening flights are cut.

So it seems cuts are taking place all around. This will seriously impact connectivity. I am sure other airlines are celebrating after today.


You have to read the PR I linked to understand the new "wave"-concept for better connecting:

All UIA flights to destinations of Western Europe will be operated during the daytime :alert: : departure from Kyiv is scheduled between 9:30 and 10:30 a.m.; arrival to Kyiv is scheduled between 5:30 and 6:30 p.m. local time. ...

All UIA flights to Cairo, Dubai, Ankara, Izmir, Yerevan, Baku, and Tehran will be operated at nighttime: departure from Kyiv is scheduled between 8:00 and 9:00 p.m.; arrival to Kyiv is scheduled between 07:30 and 08:45 a.m. local time. Flights to Tel Aviv, Istanbul, and Tbilisi will be operated several times per day.


That I understood but still, the overall connectivity is going down? They probably need to consolidate but they should be careful not to overdo it.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:41 pm

debonair wrote:
...
And, no - the B767-300ER will stay for med-haul routes, like Delhi (see also summer timetable 2020):
"Kyiv – Delhi – Kyiv flights will be operated on Boeing 767 aircraft."

source: https://www.flyuia.com/de/en/news/2019/ ... ht-program

:twocents: I thought, I will regret my flights to KBP booked on UIA this year - but as it turned out, this was one of my best flights ever in the last couple of years. The crew was not only friendly and very attentive - but had the highest safety standards I have seen in many years of travelling. Actually, they put LH & Co. to shame! Not only that they re-seated passengers, despite their paid seat reservation, to have better able bodied persons at all exits, they even made sure, that everyone was listening and following their safety demonstration.


Phase-out of 767-300ER was always planned to be staggered. The idea was the first retirement(s) would happen within 2019, and the last -- within 2020. Otherwise, press-releases were intentionally vague.

And yes, as a passenger of size, I can be on the receiving end of PS policies on reshuffling passengers. I try to do my homework, and buy legroom seats in non-emergency exit rows. Works like charm -- until it doesn't -- and you get a 767 thrown in mid-haul, instead of a 737. With 8-across in economy, their seating is an abomination... Trying to upgrade (to "premium economy" -- i.e. normal 7-abreast) at the last moment is a dream come true...
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Birdwatching
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:38 pm

Blerg wrote:
Seems like other routes will see additional cuts as well.

CDG becomes daily, 19.30 departure is suspended.
BRU becomes daily, afternoon and evening departures are suspended.
FCO becomes daily, evening flights are cut.

So it seems cuts are taking place all around. This will seriously impact connectivity. I am sure other airlines are celebrating after today.


FRA is also cut to daily
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:04 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
I think apart from this, UIA are going to be in for a shock over the next 12 months as Ryanair and Wizz gain increasing market share in flights between Ukrain and Western Europe - not only Kiev routes but also provincial cities as well


Considering how poorly connected Ukrainian cities other than Kyiv are to the US, one would think they could make money with well timed flights to European hubs. UIA's only flights to the US are to JFK which is a rather terrible hub for connections.
 
maverick4002
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:30 am

Oh this is sad. I flew them to Jordan this year and it honestly wasnt bad. The service was okay and about 2 weeks later I flew economy on United's 777 and I preferred the Ukraine one lol. Also, the economy class meal was really really good.
 
MaksFly
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:25 am

flyingclrs727 wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
I think apart from this, UIA are going to be in for a shock over the next 12 months as Ryanair and Wizz gain increasing market share in flights between Ukrain and Western Europe - not only Kiev routes but also provincial cities as well


Considering how poorly connected Ukrainian cities other than Kyiv are to the US, one would think they could make money with well timed flights to European hubs. UIA's only flights to the US are to JFK which is a rather terrible hub for connections.


JFK, not really... in either case, most of what they do is VFR.

The connection travel out of JFK is onto TLV... orthodox jews flying through Kiev because UIA/Aerosvit was always dirt cheap, cheaper than El-Al and others.

737 is not bad but in my experience has almost always been late, especially afternoon/evening flights.
767 with 8 across is unbearable.

Even though we are Ukranian, and still have friends/family there... we do not fly UIA, unless it is significantly cheaper, especially if we are going to ODS... in which case would fly through Western Europe with a connection.

AS far as losing money? Well, crappy product, crappy service, crappy economy and plenty of corruption... what does anyone expect?
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:53 am

MaksFly wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
I think apart from this, UIA are going to be in for a shock over the next 12 months as Ryanair and Wizz gain increasing market share in flights between Ukrain and Western Europe - not only Kiev routes but also provincial cities as well


Considering how poorly connected Ukrainian cities other than Kyiv are to the US, one would think they could make money with well timed flights to European hubs. UIA's only flights to the US are to JFK which is a rather terrible hub for connections.


JFK, not really... in either case, most of what they do is VFR.

The connection travel out of JFK is onto TLV... orthodox jews flying through Kiev because UIA/Aerosvit was always dirt cheap, cheaper than El-Al and others.

737 is not bad but in my experience has almost always been late, especially afternoon/evening flights.
767 with 8 across is unbearable.

Even though we are Ukranian, and still have friends/family there... we do not fly UIA, unless it is significantly cheaper, especially if we are going to ODS... in which case would fly through Western Europe with a connection.

AS far as losing money? Well, crappy product, crappy service, crappy economy and plenty of corruption... what does anyone expect?


My wife flies IAH-IST-ODS every year on TK. It's by far the most convenient way to travel between Odessa and the US. The connections are between 2 hours and 2 hours 30 minutes each way. Any other airline is much longer or more complicated.

My wife's mother once made the mistake of flying on the 767 between KBP and JFK. I figured my in-laws would just have to experience it rather than have me explain why those tickets were so cheap.

Her father told me recently that they would like to visit early next year. I'm going to suggest they get open jaw tickets from ODS to IAH and return JFK to ODS on TK. It's much easier for them to fly CRP-HOU-LGA to visit their friends in Brooklyn before returning to Odessa.
 
anrec80
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:52 am

flyingclrs727 wrote:
Considering how poorly connected Ukrainian cities other than Kyiv are to the US, one would think they could make money with well timed flights to European hubs. UIA's only flights to the US are to JFK which is a rather terrible hub for connections.


There is virtually no business traffic between US and Ukraine (and the rest of Eastern Europe for that reason), hence too few of these flights will be sustainable. In North America, New York and Toronto have substantial Ukrainian presence, hence I see only those cities working from KBP.
 
anrec80
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:55 am

flyingclrs727 wrote:
My wife flies IAH-IST-ODS every year on TK. It's by far the most convenient way to travel between Odessa and the US. The connections are between 2 hours and 2 hours 30 minutes each way. Any other airline is much longer or more complicated.



I second TK to Ukrainian regional cities - by far the best option.
 
anrec80
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:03 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
I think apart from this, UIA are going to be in for a shock over the next 12 months as Ryanair and Wizz gain increasing market share in flights between Ukrain and Western Europe - not only Kiev routes but also provincial cities as well


Not sure those are quite competitors. LCCs are used more by "earners" - Ukrainians who earn their basic living in Western Europe. PS is more for tourists and business traffic.
 
anrec80
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:05 am

salmonh wrote:
Might be an opportunity for Tarom to put one of those A330s they've been perpetually thinking about using to good use with a Beijing route. But first I suppose they'd have to find someone willing to accept the position of CEO, lol.


If Russians grant them overflight rights for flights from KBP. They are very restrictive on those.
 
anrec80
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:07 am

EL-AL wrote:
My 2 cents: the airline must improve its customer service because I hear from many passengers flying with PS the same thing: "never again". Flight cancellations, rude ground crews, no answer from customer service and gate charges for luggage that make Ryanair look like Swiss. Better customer service will lead to more returning passengers.


It's hard to say - a typical PS passenger is an enormous cheapskate, and will bear anything for lower fare.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:11 am

I am not surprised about those cuts.

AMM and TLV have been liberalised with more low-cost competition (lower fares). RIX has more and more AirBaltic and FR/W6 routes.

BKK is all about connections from Europe competing with ME3, Aeroflot, etc. With less demand on ME3 overall, Emirates or Qatar are probably more competitive than ever taking passengers to Thailand.
 
Blerg
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:42 am

I see SkyUp is a new player in Ukraine, who are they and who is backing them? They seem to be successful so far.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:00 am

anrec80 wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
Big-stakes political maneuvering, IMHO.
PS was hurt badly by Russian invasion, with loss of normal routing to its non-Russian eastwards destinations, loss of market in Russia.


Whose fault is it? ..

I gather invasion of Ukraine by Ruskies has something to do with it, no?
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WorldFlier
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:13 pm

Blerg wrote:
My guess is that their finances took a hit when Wizz Air and Ryanair started expanding aggressively in Ukraine. This meant that it became increasingly difficult to maintain underperforming routes such as AMM, RIX or MSQ. As for PEK, I wonder if not being able to overfly Russia played a key role in the route's demise.


Free trade with Europe has it's downsides. Having your underdeveloped market flooded with established players whose combined market cap is the size of your country.

Great job guys. Way to go.
 
drdisque
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:32 pm

The big question: Does Motor Sich Airline actually make money flying their weird routes with old aircraft at fares that are often lower than UIA? Or is it merely a corporate shuttle for Motor Sich (the manufacturing company) that happens to also sell tickets to the public and operates at a loss?
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:44 pm

drdisque wrote:
The big question: Does Motor Sich Airline actually make money flying their weird routes with old aircraft at fares that are often lower than UIA? Or is it merely a corporate shuttle for Motor Sich (the manufacturing company) that happens to also sell tickets to the public and operates at a loss?


Rather second option, plus it's a mechanism to keep mechanics, pilots, airplanes and paperwork current, when the need for corporate flying on non-scheduled routes arises.
We don't see their costs, so no way to know if they make or lose money. I'd venture to say they lose a little, but if they were still kept as a purely charter outfit, without scheduled flying -- they'd end up costing more.
And the engine work is an interesting accounting entry for these guys -- we don't know which way possible cross-subsidization works.
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GLANKG
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:06 am

anrec80 wrote:

When you have 10% of your country’s population working and living in a neighboring one, there are plenty of profitable destinations to be had, besides DME and LED. There is nothing prevents Ukrainian authorities to sit down with their Russian counterparts and figure this one out.

Soon to be Poland perhaps? Thousands are going to work in the wealthier west neighbours now, Russia may well become the past.
 
anrec80
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:59 am

GLANKG wrote:
Soon to be Poland perhaps? Thousands are going to work in the wealthier west neighbours now, Russia may well become the past.


One doesn’t prevent the other. Ukraine is the poorest country in Europe, so pretty much any detonation around it will be wealthier.
 
juliuswong
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:36 am

Their 4th B772ER was never taken up after it was fully painted and now maybe undergoing scrapping at desert. They would need to give OZ a ring if they need another one. Their 763ER are really old. The saving grace would be their B737NG. But new toys are nothing if their ground and on air experiences are too much to be desired for.
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c933103
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Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:16 am

So that mean they're giving up the previous five year plan?
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GLANKG
Posts: 107
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:19 am

Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:36 am

anrec80 wrote:
GLANKG wrote:
Soon to be Poland perhaps? Thousands are going to work in the wealthier west neighbours now, Russia may well become the past.


One doesn’t prevent the other. Ukraine is the poorest country in Europe, so pretty much any detonation around it will be wealthier.

Clearly I wasn't comparing Ukraine to its EU neighbours...
 
jordanh
Posts: 327
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:56 pm

Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:54 am

anrec80 wrote:
Ukraine is the poorest country in Europe, so pretty much any detonation around it will be wealthier.


That is a lie - again. Moldova is significantly poorer, and is the poorest country in Europe.

But never let the facts get in the way of your Russian rants against Ukraine.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the ... %243%2C553.
 
MaksFly
Posts: 367
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:50 am

Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:46 am

jordanh wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
Ukraine is the poorest country in Europe, so pretty much any detonation around it will be wealthier.


That is a lie - again. Moldova is significantly poorer, and is the poorest country in Europe.

But never let the facts get in the way of your Russian rants against Ukraine.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the ... %243%2C553.


Just wondering, have you ever been to Moldova?

It is a drive through place that is essentially western Ukraine.

In either case, the other guy's post still stands true... whether or not Ukraine is the poorest or the second poorest.

And I say this as a Ukranian who's mom is from Moldova.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4534
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:50 am

Here is a complete list of all the changes, some are pretty drastic like Vienna since they have a strong connection to Austrian Airlines. I guess with reduced flexibility, unimpressive onboard experience, all they will be left with are cheap fares. Not very promising in the long run.

Kyiv Borispil – Amman eff 17NOV19 3 weekly service cancelled
Kyiv Borispil – Ankara eff 16NOV19 7 weekly service unified to evening departure, replacing day-time
Kyiv Borispil – Bangkok eff 19NOV19 Reduce from 5-6 to 3 weekly, 777 operating
Kyiv Borispil – Beijing Capital eff 19NOV19 5 weekly service suspended
Kyiv Borispil – Brussels eff 16NOV19 Reduce from 9 to 7 weekly
Kyiv Borispil – Cairo eff 17NOV19 4 weekly service moves to evening departure, replacing day-time service
Kyiv Borispil – Krakow eff 19NOV19 Increase from 5 to 7 weekly
Kyiv Borispil – Madrid eff 17NOV19 4 weekly service moves to morning departure
Kyiv Borispil – Minsk eff 16NOV19 1 daily service cancelled
Kyiv Borispil – Paris CDG eff 16NOV19 Reduce from 2 to 1 daily
Kyiv Borispil – Riga eff 15NOV19 3 weekly service cancelled
Kyiv Borispil – Stockholm Arlanda eff 16NOV19 Reduce from 11-12 to 7 weekly
Kyiv Borispil – Tbilisi eff 16NOV19 All service moves to evening departure
Kyiv Borispil – Vienna eff 16NOV19 Reduce from 12 to 7 weekly
Kyiv Borispil – Vilnius eff 16NOV19 Reduce from 14 to 11 weekly
Kyiv Borispil – Warsaw eff 16NOV19 Reduce from 2 to 1 daily
Kyiv Borispil – Yerevan eff 16NOV19 Reduce from 11 to 7 weekly

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... k-changes/
 
DouglasDC10
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 3:27 am

Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:20 am

Blerg wrote:
Here is a complete list of all the changes, some are pretty drastic like Vienna since they have a strong connection to Austrian Airlines. I guess with reduced flexibility, unimpressive onboard experience, all they will be left with are cheap fares. Not very promising in the long run.

Kyiv Borispil – Amman eff 17NOV19 3 weekly service cancelled
Kyiv Borispil – Ankara eff 16NOV19 7 weekly service unified to evening departure, replacing day-time
Kyiv Borispil – Bangkok eff 19NOV19 Reduce from 5-6 to 3 weekly, 777 operating
Kyiv Borispil – Beijing Capital eff 19NOV19 5 weekly service suspended
Kyiv Borispil – Brussels eff 16NOV19 Reduce from 9 to 7 weekly
Kyiv Borispil – Cairo eff 17NOV19 4 weekly service moves to evening departure, replacing day-time service
Kyiv Borispil – Krakow eff 19NOV19 Increase from 5 to 7 weekly
Kyiv Borispil – Madrid eff 17NOV19 4 weekly service moves to morning departure
Kyiv Borispil – Minsk eff 16NOV19 1 daily service cancelled
Kyiv Borispil – Paris CDG eff 16NOV19 Reduce from 2 to 1 daily
Kyiv Borispil – Riga eff 15NOV19 3 weekly service cancelled
Kyiv Borispil – Stockholm Arlanda eff 16NOV19 Reduce from 11-12 to 7 weekly
Kyiv Borispil – Tbilisi eff 16NOV19 All service moves to evening departure
Kyiv Borispil – Vienna eff 16NOV19 Reduce from 12 to 7 weekly
Kyiv Borispil – Vilnius eff 16NOV19 Reduce from 14 to 11 weekly
Kyiv Borispil – Warsaw eff 16NOV19 Reduce from 2 to 1 daily
Kyiv Borispil – Yerevan eff 16NOV19 Reduce from 11 to 7 weekly

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... k-changes/


I am surprised not to see FRA here as stated in a previous post. Normally, they only suspended PS404 (the early morning departure at 05:00 LT) between mid-January and the beginning of the summer schedule. This year, the last flight took place in mid-October. Does anyone know if the flight will come back in 2020 or if FRA will also be served in summer by PS402 (departure at 14:15 LT) only?
 
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Phosphorus
Posts: 1136
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 11:38 am

Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:56 pm

juliuswong wrote:
Their 4th B772ER was never taken up after it was fully painted and now maybe undergoing scrapping at desert. They would need to give OZ a ring if they need another one. Their 763ER are really old. The saving grace would be their B737NG. But new toys are nothing if their ground and on air experiences are too much to be desired for.

my previous answer got deleted, the gist here:

This would be this frame:
https://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-b777-28685.htm
It was allocated UR-GOD tail number, but that was never applied, as the frame was NTU

PS was public that the frame was found in very poor condition during acceptance checks, and was rejected for that. PS people were outspoken that they see no other fate for this frame, rather than scrapping.
The lessor was of a different opinion, and eventually, there was an announcement that the frame would be stored, until the resolution is reached.
Apparently, the resolution has not been reached yet, as there's nothing new in public, and the frame is still listed as stored.
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
Ceterum autem censeo, Moscovia esse delendam
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 3709
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:19 pm

A lot of the reduced flying is within the CIS and Baltic regions. To the Baltics, airBaltic offers a superior product, and even without the overflight issues, connecting in Nur-sultan or Almaty on Air Astana offers a superior product. The root issue is customer service. This is where SkyUp could really take advantage.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4534
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:33 pm

According to avianews.com UIA will not renew the leases for three B738 in 2020. In 2019 two B738 were replaced by two E95. I guess this was expected.
 
User avatar
Phosphorus
Posts: 1136
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 11:38 am

Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:49 am

Blerg wrote:
According to avianews.com UIA will not renew the leases for three B738 in 2020. In 2019 two B738 were replaced by two E95. I guess this was expected.

With all the MAX troubles, it's a seller's market. I gather, PS prefers to reshuffle itself, and let go of the frames, coming off the lease, rather than bid for them.
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
Ceterum autem censeo, Moscovia esse delendam
 
flybaby
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 5:20 am

Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:46 pm

Just curious... why are PS’ afternoon flights from TLV to KBP always scheduled to depart within about half an hour of each other? Would it not make sense to spread them out a bit more?
 
artflyer
Posts: 156
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:08 pm

And now further cuts announced today:

effective 14 January 2020, cancels KRK

effective 29 March 2020, suspends BKK.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4534
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:24 pm

artflyer wrote:
And now further cuts announced today:

effective 14 January 2020, cancels KRK

effective 29 March 2020, suspends BKK.


Wait ... wasn't KRK actually increased when they were cutting flights left and right?
 
artflyer
Posts: 156
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:46 pm

Blerg wrote:
artflyer wrote:
And now further cuts announced today:

effective 14 January 2020, cancels KRK

effective 29 March 2020, suspends BKK.


Wait ... wasn't KRK actually increased when they were cutting flights left and right?


Yes, it was just increased from 5 during W18 to 7. During S2019 it was 10/11 weekly.

Even with that increase to 7 they had just 11% of the capacity KRK-Ukraine and 32% of the capacity KRK-KBP.

It seems they are now cutting right and left, not really knowing whether they are after dirty cheap transit pax or Ukrainian gastarbeiters in Poland.

Source: https://www.flyuia.com/de/en/news/2019/ ... ht-program
 
Blerg
Posts: 4534
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Ukraine Int'l cuts: Axe PEK, AMM, RIX; reduce BKK & TLV

Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:10 pm

artflyer wrote:
Blerg wrote:
artflyer wrote:
And now further cuts announced today:

effective 14 January 2020, cancels KRK

effective 29 March 2020, suspends BKK.


Wait ... wasn't KRK actually increased when they were cutting flights left and right?


Yes, it was just increased from 5 during W18 to 7. During S2019 it was 10/11 weekly.

Even with that increase to 7 they had just 11% of the capacity KRK-Ukraine and 32% of the capacity KRK-KBP.

It seems they are now cutting right and left, not really knowing whether they are after dirty cheap transit pax or Ukrainian gastarbeiters in Poland.

Source: https://www.flyuia.com/de/en/news/2019/ ... ht-program


Let's see what becomes of their new strategy and how much it actually pays off.

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