jumbojet
Topic Author
Posts: 2942
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:23 pm

Article is by the Dallas Business Journal.

American Airlines leadership recognizes the gap isn't shrinking between itself and a chief rival in key financial metrics.

AA blames the max but also blames itself on a bunch of other important metrics including operational reliability, huge difference in PRASM, and other things

Specifically, Parker pointed to the gap between American and Delta Air Lines Inc. (NYSE: DAL) in unit revenue. Passenger revenue per available seat mile, PRASM, is a key financial metric in the airline industry, and the value is calculated by dividing passenger revenue by available seat miles.
The gap between Delta and American had begun to narrow since American and US Airways merged in 2013. It is now "starting to widen the last six quarters, and that's not what we should be doing," Parker said. "We should be narrowing that gap, not widening it."


million dollar question is, can they narrow the gap or even overtake DL or is DL to focused and disciplined an airline for that to happen


https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... delta.html
Last edited by jumbojet on Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3383
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:26 pm

I don't see how they can give up on new York market and expect this to happen.
 
HPAEAA
Posts: 1126
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:24 am

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:31 pm

tphuang wrote:
I don't see how they can give up on new York market and expect this to happen.

That would be a big step to get serious about one of the largest markets in the country, second might be to focus on getting people from A to B, not only deal with the operational challenges, but might be time to rethink some p2p flying, if there’s significant demand, why not skip the hub? Not everyone wants to fly through CLT or DFW.
1.4mm and counting...
 
Antarius
Posts: 1764
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:54 pm

It started to narrow because LAA was amidst a major change, with new planes, US airline leading J etc. LUS had turned itself around operationally despite being an LCC before the merger too.

Somehow they managed to take the LAA operational aspects and the LUS LCC customer experience and create a mess.
19:SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN MHT YYZ STS DOH BLR KTM MFM MEX MSY BWI BNA
 
User avatar
OzarkD9S
Posts: 5413
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:31 am

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:00 pm

tphuang wrote:

I don't see how they can give up on new York market and expect this to happen.


AA still has the second largest slot portfolio at LGA, it can't be as simple as blaming NYC or lack thereof for the bigger picture.

They've densified seating, taken out IFE and a myriad of other soft and hard product changes that together add up to an inferior product vs. DL overall. And now UA is coming after premium pax with CRJ-550. After years of being the worst of the Big 3 US network carriers, UA is stepping up their game. AA is now a global carrier run with an almost regional, LCC mindset.
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
User avatar
usdcaguy
Posts: 1366
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:41 pm

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:02 pm

They need to try offering MORE than Delta is offering, not the same or less. Delta did more than what AA did in terms of service without creating significant long-term costs, and guess where they are today? In addition, AA is a little too everywhere for everyone at any given time. Putting more time into looking at how many markets are meeting their PRASM threshold and cutting those routes that are not contributing as strongly as they should be might be a good idea. Pricing strategy also needs to be looked at, as they tend to match carriers like NK and F9 way too much while forgetting they're a legacy carrier with a different customer base. It's not 1995 anymore; scheduling and pricing for 2020 would be a good idea.
 
BNAMealer
Posts: 345
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:06 pm

Some steps AA should take to fix itself

1. Improve operational reliability and customer experience/service (I.e, ditch Project Oasis)

2. Build back up JFK/LGA and stop this nonsense of shifting everything to PHL.

3. Optimize/rebuild the layouts of DFW and CLT, their most profitable hubs for better connections. Not necessarily saying rebuild the entire terminal space at each place, but there are things they can do at both that could make things more efficient.

4. Upgauge to more mainline flights in their core hubs of DFW, CLT and ORD.

5. Improve the soft product in all classes
 
Chemist
Posts: 633
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:46 am

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:17 pm

They could always fly to countries which have smaller average-sized people so that they might be able to be more comfortable on AA's latest aircraft configurations.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 724
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:17 pm

AA management does not seem up to task to turn this around. As stated in the article, the gap has been widening for the last 6 quarters which would precede Max grounding and their labor relations issues with the mechanics. Quite frankly, the time at which the gap started to widen is when the reverse should have been happening as AA should have been in the stage of the merger when links should have been worked out and synergies should have been optimal.

I really don’t think US management was ready for managing an AA style airline. Of the hubs they inherited from AA, only DFW (the second largest hub in the world) seems to be performing particularly well. Their customers and employees both seem to be fed up with AA. More quarters of them lagging behind the rest of the industry and their investors will be too.

Their two largest competitors are both currently focusing on enhancing their product to attract customers by making people want to fly them while AA seems like it’s on a mission to prove a hypothesis that it can make more money by making its product objectively worse.

Structurally, I think they have quite a few challenges as well. They operate five East Coast hubs (PHL, JFK/LGA, DCA, CLT, MIA). I think the death by 1000 cuts in NYC will eventually prove that isn’t sustainable. LAX and DFW seem to duplicate Asia service. I don’t know how sustainable that will prove to be.

Good luck to AA. I think they have a lot of things in their favor keeping them afloat (the best single JV partner in BA, hubs in prime cities, etc.) but I also think this management team is proving to be a millstone around the carrier’s neck.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 724
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:19 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
tphuang wrote:

I don't see how they can give up on new York market and expect this to happen.


AA still has the second largest slot portfolio at LGA, it can't be as simple as blaming NYC or lack thereof for the bigger picture.

They've densified seating, taken out IFE and a myriad of other soft and hard product changes that together add up to an inferior product vs. DL overall. And now UA is coming after premium pax with CRJ-550. After years of being the worst of the Big 3 US network carriers, UA is stepping up their game. AA is now a global carrier run with an almost regional, LCC mindset.

Exactly
 
tphuang
Posts: 3383
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:28 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
tphuang wrote:

I don't see how they can give up on new York market and expect this to happen.


AA still has the second largest slot portfolio at LGA, it can't be as simple as blaming NYC or lack thereof for the bigger picture.

They've densified seating, taken out IFE and a myriad of other soft and hard product changes that together add up to an inferior product vs. DL overall. And now UA is coming after premium pax with CRJ-550. After years of being the worst of the Big 3 US network carriers, UA is stepping up their game. AA is now a global carrier run with an almost regional, LCC mindset.


What they've done in JFK is a huge reason for the RASM widening between the two. As a result of what they've done. DL has gained over 7% in relative yield against them in major JFK markets in past year alone. And that was before their trimming down to 70 departures a day for most of the past 6 months.

As a result of that, DL's NYC performance has completely turned around. In the past, they might have been losing money in NYC, but their competitive effort here allowed they to keep a lot of loyal ff and JFK was consistently an underperformer in DL network. Without that drag, DL yield go up in NYC and AA's yield at LGA come crashing down. Simple as that. All this stuff about JFK international being finally profitable is a cover over their decision taken 2 years ago to start backing off major money losing market out of JFK.

I'm consistently amazed by the people thinking that somehow cutting this much at JFK is somehow a good thing.
 
usairways787
Posts: 227
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:42 pm

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:51 pm

Typical Doug, blaming everyone but himself and the decisions at the top that have turned us into what it we are today. An LCC only in a legacy name, with $20+ billion in debt.
 
User avatar
American 767
Posts: 4455
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 7:27 am

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:51 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
Some steps AA should take to fix itself

1. Improve operational reliability and customer experience/service (I.e, ditch Project Oasis)

2. Build back up JFK/LGA and stop this nonsense of shifting everything to PHL.

3. Optimize/rebuild the layouts of DFW and CLT, their most profitable hubs for better connections. Not necessarily saying rebuild the entire terminal space at each place, but there are things they can do at both that could make things more efficient.

4. Upgauge to more mainline flights in their core hubs of DFW, CLT and ORD.

5. Improve the soft product in all classes


And 6. Think twice about reintroducing the 737MAX even if the FAA lifts the ban. Yes it is true that American was one of the launch customers of the MAX about a decade ago or so, but they have been postponing deliveries and passengers were not very satisfied with the newest variant of the 737, so I'm not so sure they are really enthusiastic about that airplane. They have to think seriously: "The MAX do we really want that airplane?" That's the very question they have to ask themselves. Southwest, who was always loyal to Boeing and always wanted to be all-737, is now considering switching to another aircraft maybe not even a Boeing model. So I won't be surprised if American decides to do the same: remove the MAX from the fleet and choose something else. I have never flown on the MAX so I can't judge what that airplane really is, but I have heard negative feedback since American started flying it.
Ben Soriano
 
questions
Posts: 2066
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:54 pm

This was all under Parker’s leadership. His strategy to Win The Race To The Bottom with the guiding principles of The Customer Is The Enemy and The Customer Won’t Pay For It hasn’t played out financially for AA. If the BOD wants improvement Parker needs to go.
 
maverick4002
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:14 pm

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:01 pm

tphuang wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
tphuang wrote:

I don't see how they can give up on new York market and expect this to happen.


AA still has the second largest slot portfolio at LGA, it can't be as simple as blaming NYC or lack thereof for the bigger picture.

They've densified seating, taken out IFE and a myriad of other soft and hard product changes that together add up to an inferior product vs. DL overall. And now UA is coming after premium pax with CRJ-550. After years of being the worst of the Big 3 US network carriers, UA is stepping up their game. AA is now a global carrier run with an almost regional, LCC mindset.


What they've done in JFK is a huge reason for the RASM widening between the two. As a result of what they've done. DL has gained over 7% in relative yield against them in major JFK markets in past year alone. And that was before their trimming down to 70 departures a day for most of the past 6 months.

As a result of that, DL's NYC performance has completely turned around. In the past, they might have been losing money in NYC, but their competitive effort here allowed they to keep a lot of loyal ff and JFK was consistently an underperformer in DL network. Without that drag, DL yield go up in NYC and AA's yield at LGA come crashing down. Simple as that. All this stuff about JFK international being finally profitable is a cover over their decision taken 2 years ago to start backing off major money losing market out of JFK.

I'm consistently amazed by the people thinking that somehow cutting this much at JFK is somehow a good thing.


Well I assume they cant lie about financial stuff so if JFK finally is profitable becuase they dropped money losing market, how exactly is it a cover? If its profitable its profitable. If that route to profitability also made DL even more profitable, then okay, but its probably not fair to call it a cover.
 
alasizon
Posts: 1994
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:10 pm

I think the obsession with AA @ NYC is overrated. NYC is maybe what 3-4% of AA's seats? The issue is far bigger than NYC.
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1699
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:30 pm

Is Dougie seriously this out of touch? He needs to put down the bottle and realize that HIS decisions to destroy AA's product and destroy AAdvantage are the reasons AA is now so far behind it's peers. It's really not that complicated. What a complete joker.

A week ago Gary at VFTW posted about OPTIONAL FA premium cabin training for FAs. Optional! And Dougie wonders why AA's revenue is so much lower. Why the hell would anyone ever pay a premium to fly AA?
 
OB1504
Posts: 3708
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:32 pm

9w748capt wrote:
Is Dougie seriously this out of touch? He needs to put down the bottle and realize that HIS decisions to destroy AA's product and destroy AAdvantage are the reasons AA is now so far behind it's peers. It's really not that complicated. What a complete joker.


To be fair, Delta led the charge on devaluing their frequent flier program. That being said, Delta made up for it by becoming an airline people like flying on.
 
PhilMcCrackin
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:54 pm

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:33 pm

alasizon wrote:
I think the obsession with AA @ NYC is overrated. NYC is maybe what 3-4% of AA's seats? The issue is far bigger than NYC.


Agreed.

Take ORD for example. AA has been slowly dieing internationally from ORD for years now. BRU, FRA, NRT, PEK, PVG, ZUR, SVO, DEL, HEL, etc. Pretty much the only thing that's left transoceanic is DUB, LHR, CDG, and MAN? Ridiculous.

Dougie thinks he can become a ULCC and still command legacy yields on par with DL and UA and that just isn't the case.
 
HPAEAA
Posts: 1126
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:24 am

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:34 pm

American 767 wrote:
And 6. Think twice about reintroducing the 737MAX even if the FAA lifts the ban. Yes it is true that American was one of the launch customers of the MAX about a decade ago or so, but they have been postponing deliveries and passengers were not very satisfied with the newest variant of the 737, so I'm not so sure they are really enthusiastic about that airplane. They have to think seriously: "The MAX do we really want that airplane?" That's the very question they have to ask themselves. Southwest, who was always loyal to Boeing and always wanted to be all-737, is now considering switching to another aircraft maybe not even a Boeing model. So I won't be surprised if American decides to do the same: remove the MAX from the fleet and choose something else. I have never flown on the MAX so I can't judge what that airplane really is, but I have heard negative feedback since American started flying it.

So I’ve not heard much on the operating costs, has anyone heard if the max was delivering on the promised operating cost saves before it was grounded?

On the Pax side, it’s more about how AA has configured the plane with the oasis style interior, if aa did the same thing to a a320, we’d likely hear the same complaints.

WN is asking a slightly different question about their supplier strategy, the Max has made it more public than it usually is but as a company they’re considering if the benefits of a single fleet out weigh the benefits of a more diverse strategy.. if you believe Boeing will fix the problems, then this is a teething pain of a new aircraft type that will be a risk every 10-20 years, no matter the builder, your likely to have issues, prob not of this type though.
1.4mm and counting...
 
SteelChair
Posts: 1229
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:55 pm

Imho, until labor amd managment get on the same page, all else is a footnote. The situation reminds me of the auto industry in the 1970s.

I have no confidence Doug and his team can turn it around. Theyre not a wotls class management team.

I have no confidence in labor. Yes, they've protected 30,000 jobs that a competitor has contracted out, but they seem unwilling to work hard enough or smart enough to continue to justify keeping those jobs in house. Instead, they seem to be digging in their heels and becoming more obstinate all the time.

Its a standoff, meanwhile the company deteriorates.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2047
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:56 pm

What's interesting to me is that all of the US3 have densified their Y cabin domestically and now all offer essentially 30 inch pitch on their domestic Y fleets, but for some reason AA gets the most hate for it. DL has PTVs so that obviously steers criticism away from their seating. I don't see why UA doesn't get the same criticism, especially because they still fail to provide power/USB ports at every seat. On their new 737 Max 9 for example, for every 3 Y seats, there are only 2 power ports. I do find UA and DL Y seating to be generally more comfortable/padded than AA in Y, so that could play a role.
alasizon wrote:
I think the obsession with AA @ NYC is overrated.

AA still maintains an impressive operation out of LGA focused on serving key LGA business markets. Other than not flying LGA-Florida leisure markets and select Northeastern cities (Upstate NY, for example) their footprint is relatively equal I would say. Is DL larger? Absolutely, but AA still offers a diverse schedule. AA also provides either a shuttle service or high-frequency service to 5 of the most heavily trafficked destinations out of LGA (ORD/DFW/MIA/BOS/CLT).
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744, 752, 753, 762, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
jfern022
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:24 pm

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:57 pm

usairways787 wrote:
Typical Doug, blaming everyone but himself and the decisions at the top that have turned us into what it we are today. An LCC only in a legacy name, with $20+ billion in debt.


Isn’t their debt load north of $30B?
 
UpNAWAy
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:32 am

Cutting money losing routes in NYC and at ORD is not a bad thing. The Oasis config is essentially the same as United and Delta. The real issue is top down management does not work at AA. Too many silos, each hub does its own thing and employees do not want or handle change well. Essentially its the culture. Not necessarily the culture this management team created but a culture they have proven incapable of fixing.
Last edited by UpNAWAy on Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 3498
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:33 am

Must be the weekly AA bashing thread. At least this time there's an article with comments. I guess it's good they know there's a problem.

My outsider top-4 list (not including a temporary placebo effect of leadership change, a la UA):

1) Improve the operations - this is the clear number one. Without it any other change is lipstick. Subpar operations are hurting both revenue and cost.

2) Find a way to drive more productivity from the workforce (that isn't by the placebo effect) - this one is a tough sell, but somehow AA needs to work on lowering its headcount and/or drive more productivity. Of course with unions this is a very difficult to basically impossible task. But without AA will always play catch-up.

3) Once the MAX is back, work quickly to resume Oasis refurbishments. The fleet consistency/improvement and lower unit cost is a benefit on both ends.

4) Diversify the spoke network like UA is doing - identify underserved markets, no matter how large/small, regional or international, to capture high revenue streams. I specifically think ORD is lacking in this department.
 
legend500
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:05 pm

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:47 am

BNAMealer wrote:
Some steps AA should take to fix itself

1. Improve operational reliability and customer experience/service (I.e, ditch Project Oasis)

2. Build back up JFK/LGA and stop this nonsense of shifting everything to PHL.

3. Optimize/rebuild the layouts of DFW and CLT, their most profitable hubs for better connections. Not necessarily saying rebuild the entire terminal space at each place, but there are things they can do at both that could make things more efficient.

4. Upgauge to more mainline flights in their core hubs of DFW, CLT and ORD.

5. Improve the soft product in all classes


I, for one, look forward to flying a Wichita Falls-DFW-Greenville flight on an A321. We can take bets on whether taxi time will be double or triple air time.

But seriously, on the rest 1,2, and 5 are big reasons. AA's soft product needs work, especially in enticing non-status F flyers.

3.... is underway, but to really get it done, AA will have to mortgage Doug's ego.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3383
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:55 am

maverick4002 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:

AA still has the second largest slot portfolio at LGA, it can't be as simple as blaming NYC or lack thereof for the bigger picture.

They've densified seating, taken out IFE and a myriad of other soft and hard product changes that together add up to an inferior product vs. DL overall. And now UA is coming after premium pax with CRJ-550. After years of being the worst of the Big 3 US network carriers, UA is stepping up their game. AA is now a global carrier run with an almost regional, LCC mindset.


What they've done in JFK is a huge reason for the RASM widening between the two. As a result of what they've done. DL has gained over 7% in relative yield against them in major JFK markets in past year alone. And that was before their trimming down to 70 departures a day for most of the past 6 months.

As a result of that, DL's NYC performance has completely turned around. In the past, they might have been losing money in NYC, but their competitive effort here allowed they to keep a lot of loyal ff and JFK was consistently an underperformer in DL network. Without that drag, DL yield go up in NYC and AA's yield at LGA come crashing down. Simple as that. All this stuff about JFK international being finally profitable is a cover over their decision taken 2 years ago to start backing off major money losing market out of JFK.

I'm consistently amazed by the people thinking that somehow cutting this much at JFK is somehow a good thing.


Well I assume they cant lie about financial stuff so if JFK finally is profitable becuase they dropped money losing market, how exactly is it a cover? If its profitable its profitable. If that route to profitability also made DL even more profitable, then okay, but its probably not fair to call it a cover.


Cutting JFK makes lga even less profitable. It hurts their corporate contracts Nationwide. Losing money at JFK is a trade-off for system wide performance. And how do you close gap with delta if your action at NYC results in delta getting a lot more profitable.
 
jagraham
Posts: 948
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:23 am

HPAEAA wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I don't see how they can give up on new York market and expect this to happen.

That would be a big step to get serious about one of the largest markets in the country, second might be to focus on getting people from A to B, not only deal with the operational challenges, but might be time to rethink some p2p flying, if there’s significant demand, why not skip the hub? Not everyone wants to fly through CLT or DFW.


For AA, it's not about skipping the hub. AA has hubs or focus cities in 9 of the top ten metro areas, the only exception being Houston. 90% of trips start or end in one of these 10 metro areas. So over 80% of trips are between the top 10 metro areas. AA just needs to increase focus on flying from top ten metro area to top ten metro area, with emphasis on business class and premium economy. They may have to upgauge; flying 102 seat A321s between JFK and SFO / LAX isn't going to cut it, for example. Better to route 788s on some flights.
Last edited by jagraham on Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 1303
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:29 am

jagraham wrote:
HPAEAA wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I don't see how they can give up on new York market and expect this to happen.

That would be a big step to get serious about one of the largest markets in the country, second might be to focus on getting people from A to B, not only deal with the operational challenges, but might be time to rethink some p2p flying, if there’s significant demand, why not skip the hub? Not everyone wants to fly through CLT or DFW.


For AA, it's not about skipping the hub. AA has hubs or focus cities in 9 of the top ten metro areas, the only exception being Houston. 90% of trips start or end in one of these 10 metro areas. So over 80% of trips are between the top 10 metro areas. AA just needs to increase focus on flying from top ten metro area to top ten metro area, with emphasis on business class and premium economy. They may have to upgauge; flying 102 seat A321s between JFK and SFO / LAS isn't going to cut it, for example. Better to route 788s on some flights.


Doubt AA will use 788s on JFK transcons any time soon, unless they start flying the Dreamliner out of JFK, which for the moment, isn't at all likely. They just transitioned the last two 763 JFK TATL routes (MAD, CDG) to the 777 in March 2019 and for the first time in a long time, as proclaimed by Raja, JFK TATL and longhaul is profitable. It is all done on the 777 (77W for up to 2 x LHR and 1 x GRU) the rest is all 772.

JFK to LAS is flown on the 738 mostly, not the A321 and the A321T is exclusively used on LAX/SFO. Those are nice planes and a nice layout but for a four to five year old aircraft, they sure are getting beaten up inside.
 
jagraham
Posts: 948
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:36 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
jagraham wrote:
HPAEAA wrote:
That would be a big step to get serious about one of the largest markets in the country, second might be to focus on getting people from A to B, not only deal with the operational challenges, but might be time to rethink some p2p flying, if there’s significant demand, why not skip the hub? Not everyone wants to fly through CLT or DFW.


For AA, it's not about skipping the hub. AA has hubs or focus cities in 9 of the top ten metro areas, the only exception being Houston. 90% of trips start or end in one of these 10 metro areas. So over 80% of trips are between the top 10 metro areas. AA just needs to increase focus on flying from top ten metro area to top ten metro area, with emphasis on business class and premium economy. They may have to upgauge; flying 102 seat A321s between JFK and SFO / LAS isn't going to cut it, for example. Better to route 788s on some flights.


Doubt AA will use 788s on JFK transcons any time soon, unless they start flying the Dreamliner out of JFK, which for the moment, isn't at all likely. They just transitioned the last two 763 JFK TATL routes (MAD, CDG) to the 777 in March 2019 and for the first time in a long time, as proclaimed by Raja, JFK TATL and longhaul is profitable. It is all done on the 777 (77W for up to 2 x LHR and 1 x GRU) the rest is all 772.

JFK to LAS is flown on the 738 mostly, not the A321 and the A321T is exclusively used on LAX/SFO. Those are nice planes and a nice layout but for a four to five year old aircraft, they sure are getting beaten up inside.


Sorry meant LAX.

As for JFK international flying, the most lucrative city pair in the world is NYC to LON, and most specifically, JFK - LHR. AA is part of the Oneworld alliance; the AA / BA JV is the leader on JFK - LHR. If AA can't make money with JFK - LHR they should not exist.

But the JFK - LHR flying masks issues elsewhere. And with only 70 departures at JFK, AA can't properly support JFK. Even with BA flying to 10 or so US cities, there are people who want to fly elsewhere. Especially in the Northeast. Transferring to LGA doesn't work for that. Not to mention people west of Dallas who are not in LA or SF who want to go to NYC; they have to transfer for the most part. It's not like AA doesn't have the slots . . .
 
HPAEAA
Posts: 1126
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:24 am

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:47 am

jagraham wrote:
HPAEAA wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I don't see how they can give up on new York market and expect this to happen.

That would be a big step to get serious about one of the largest markets in the country, second might be to focus on getting people from A to B, not only deal with the operational challenges, but might be time to rethink some p2p flying, if there’s significant demand, why not skip the hub? Not everyone wants to fly through CLT or DFW.


For AA, it's not about skipping the hub. AA has hubs or focus cities in 9 of the top ten metro areas, the only exception being Houston. 90% of trips start or end in one of these 10 metro areas. So over 80% of trips are between the top 10 metro areas. AA just needs to increase focus on flying from top ten metro area to top ten metro area, with emphasis on business class and premium economy. They may have to upgauge; flying 102 seat A321s between JFK and SFO / LAX isn't going to cut it, for example. Better to route 788s on some flights.


Not to start anything, But what data do you have to support the 90% assertion and 80% assertion? Also, how are you defining metros? I count 7 of 10 by MSA/CSA definitions and less by pure city populations. Gaps on the csa front are SFO, HOU, BOS. Also, The 788 would need reconfiguration, it would be a 33% decrease in premium seats... given how well aa does with the lay flat F & J cabins on the a321t.
1.4mm and counting...
 
jagraham
Posts: 948
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:54 am

HPAEAA wrote:
jagraham wrote:
HPAEAA wrote:
That would be a big step to get serious about one of the largest markets in the country, second might be to focus on getting people from A to B, not only deal with the operational challenges, but might be time to rethink some p2p flying, if there’s significant demand, why not skip the hub? Not everyone wants to fly through CLT or DFW.


For AA, it's not about skipping the hub. AA has hubs or focus cities in 9 of the top ten metro areas, the only exception being Houston. 90% of trips start or end in one of these 10 metro areas. So over 80% of trips are between the top 10 metro areas. AA just needs to increase focus on flying from top ten metro area to top ten metro area, with emphasis on business class and premium economy. They may have to upgauge; flying 102 seat A321s between JFK and SFO / LAX isn't going to cut it, for example. Better to route 788s on some flights.


Not to start anything, But what data do you have to support the 90% assertion and 80% assertion? Also, how are you defining metros? I count 7 of 10 by MSA/CSA definitions and less by pure city populations. Gaps on the csa front are SFO, HOU, BOS. Also, The 788 would need reconfiguration, it would be a 33% decrease in premium seats... given how well aa does with the lay flat F & J cabins on the a321t.


It is CSA. SFO and BOS are focus cities. IAH is the missing CSA.

You are right about the 788. Only 20 J seats!?! On international flights??? What's the point of that nice new cattle car? SMH. Thanks for bringing that to my attention . . I must have been thinking 789s
 
codc10
Posts: 2562
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:00 am

jagraham wrote:
HPAEAA wrote:
jagraham wrote:

For AA, it's not about skipping the hub. AA has hubs or focus cities in 9 of the top ten metro areas, the only exception being Houston. 90% of trips start or end in one of these 10 metro areas. So over 80% of trips are between the top 10 metro areas. AA just needs to increase focus on flying from top ten metro area to top ten metro area, with emphasis on business class and premium economy. They may have to upgauge; flying 102 seat A321s between JFK and SFO / LAX isn't going to cut it, for example. Better to route 788s on some flights.


Not to start anything, But what data do you have to support the 90% assertion and 80% assertion? Also, how are you defining metros? I count 7 of 10 by MSA/CSA definitions and less by pure city populations. Gaps on the csa front are SFO, HOU, BOS. Also, The 788 would need reconfiguration, it would be a 33% decrease in premium seats... given how well aa does with the lay flat F & J cabins on the a321t.


It is CSA. SFO and BOS are focus cities. IAH is the missing CSA.

You are right about the 788. Only 20 J seats!?! On international flights??? What's the point of that nice new cattle car? SMH. Thanks for bringing that to my attention . . I must have been thinking 789s


SFO a focus city? By what definition?
 
HPAEAA
Posts: 1126
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:24 am

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:08 am

jagraham wrote:
HPAEAA wrote:
jagraham wrote:

For AA, it's not about skipping the hub. AA has hubs or focus cities in 9 of the top ten metro areas, the only exception being Houston. 90% of trips start or end in one of these 10 metro areas. So over 80% of trips are between the top 10 metro areas. AA just needs to increase focus on flying from top ten metro area to top ten metro area, with emphasis on business class and premium economy. They may have to upgauge; flying 102 seat A321s between JFK and SFO / LAX isn't going to cut it, for example. Better to route 788s on some flights.


Not to start anything, But what data do you have to support the 90% assertion and 80% assertion? Also, how are you defining metros? I count 7 of 10 by MSA/CSA definitions and less by pure city populations. Gaps on the csa front are SFO, HOU, BOS. Also, The 788 would need reconfiguration, it would be a 33% decrease in premium seats... given how well aa does with the lay flat F & J cabins on the a321t.


It is CSA. SFO and BOS are focus cities. IAH is the missing CSA.

You are right about the 788. Only 20 J seats!?! On international flights??? What's the point of that nice new cattle car? SMH. Thanks for bringing that to my attention . . I must have been thinking 789s

How are you defining focus city? Sfo only sees hub flying these days and BOS might be considered with the couple of eagle routes and Saturday non hub flying, but compared to the “focus city” definition used at DL, UA it’s a stretch... putting that aside though I am curious what data you used to get to the 80 & 90% of trip numbers, I can’t quite rationalize that 90% of trips in the US originate or end at one of the top 10 MSA/CSA, the population is too spread out.
1.4mm and counting...
 
alasizon
Posts: 1994
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:08 am

codc10 wrote:
jagraham wrote:
HPAEAA wrote:

Not to start anything, But what data do you have to support the 90% assertion and 80% assertion? Also, how are you defining metros? I count 7 of 10 by MSA/CSA definitions and less by pure city populations. Gaps on the csa front are SFO, HOU, BOS. Also, The 788 would need reconfiguration, it would be a 33% decrease in premium seats... given how well aa does with the lay flat F & J cabins on the a321t.


It is CSA. SFO and BOS are focus cities. IAH is the missing CSA.

You are right about the 788. Only 20 J seats!?! On international flights??? What's the point of that nice new cattle car? SMH. Thanks for bringing that to my attention . . I must have been thinking 789s


SFO a focus city? By what definition?


Pretty hard to call BOS a focus city too given there is a whopping 5 RJs a day to non-hub locations.
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
alfa164
Posts: 3057
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:09 am

Chemist wrote:
They could always fly to countries which have smaller average-sized people so that they might be able to be more comfortable on AA's latest aircraft configurations.


"American Airlines - Something special in the air.... for pygmies..."

;)
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:21 am

jagraham wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
jagraham wrote:

For AA, it's not about skipping the hub. AA has hubs or focus cities in 9 of the top ten metro areas, the only exception being Houston. 90% of trips start or end in one of these 10 metro areas. So over 80% of trips are between the top 10 metro areas. AA just needs to increase focus on flying from top ten metro area to top ten metro area, with emphasis on business class and premium economy. They may have to upgauge; flying 102 seat A321s between JFK and SFO / LAS isn't going to cut it, for example. Better to route 788s on some flights.


Doubt AA will use 788s on JFK transcons any time soon, unless they start flying the Dreamliner out of JFK, which for the moment, isn't at all likely. They just transitioned the last two 763 JFK TATL routes (MAD, CDG) to the 777 in March 2019 and for the first time in a long time, as proclaimed by Raja, JFK TATL and longhaul is profitable. It is all done on the 777 (77W for up to 2 x LHR and 1 x GRU) the rest is all 772.

JFK to LAS is flown on the 738 mostly, not the A321 and the A321T is exclusively used on LAX/SFO. Those are nice planes and a nice layout but for a four to five year old aircraft, they sure are getting beaten up inside.


Sorry meant LAX.

As for JFK international flying, the most lucrative city pair in the world is NYC to LON, and most specifically, JFK - LHR. AA is part of the Oneworld alliance; the AA / BA JV is the leader on JFK - LHR. If AA can't make money with JFK - LHR they should not exist.

But the JFK - LHR flying masks issues elsewhere. And with only 70 departures at JFK, AA can't properly support JFK. Even with BA flying to 10 or so US cities, there are people who want to fly elsewhere. Especially in the Northeast. Transferring to LGA doesn't work for that. Not to mention people west of Dallas who are not in LA or SF who want to go to NYC; they have to transfer for the most part. It's not like AA doesn't have the slots . . .


I'm totally confused by your comment. JFK is an O/D station for AA.

AA does not want to connect people via JFK, they use PHL because it is cheaper and more reliable. If someone wants to fly to the NE, they can easily do it via PHL. No need for an airport transfer.

BA/AA fly to 28 airports in the US from London. If you want to fly someplace, there is no need to go via NYC.

AA flies to SAN, LAS, PHX, LAX, SFO, SEA plus AUS and SAT from JFK outside of the LGA perimeter (Admittedly, SAN and SEA have been iffy lately). The only markets of any significance that are missing are DEN and PDX. Those 8 cities probably account for 70% of NYC-Places between Dallas and LA traffic.

Not to say that AA could not try harder at JFK but I think you are making a case based on inaccurate info.
 
OB1504
Posts: 3708
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:02 am

USAirALB wrote:
What's interesting to me is that all of the US3 have densified their Y cabin domestically and now all offer essentially 30 inch pitch on their domestic Y fleets, but for some reason AA gets the most hate for it. DL has PTVs so that obviously steers criticism away from their seating. I don't see why UA doesn't get the same criticism, especially because they still fail to provide power/USB ports at every seat. On their new 737 Max 9 for example, for every 3 Y seats, there are only 2 power ports. I do find UA and DL Y seating to be generally more comfortable/padded than AA in Y, so that could play a role.


For AA, it's not just the 30" pitch, but the combination of the cheap feel of the Oasis interiors (and the atrocious premium cabin not worth the upcharge) on top of all of the other issues they have. AA went to 30" pitch with the arrival of the new build A319s in 2014, but the hate didn't really start until the arrival of the 737 MAX and the gradual loss of everything else that would've made 30" pitch a worthwhile trade off. Even the 737 MAX narrowly averted having 29" pitch in some rows, and passengers and crews still hated it from day one.

I agree that Delta's economy class seats are much more comfortable than AA's. My back was starting to hurt after 30 minutes when I flew on an AA 737 MAX from MCO to MIA, but I've done ATL-SEA on refurbished Delta 757s with 30" pitch several times without any comfort issues.
 
nwcoflyer
Posts: 682
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 7:55 am

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:39 am

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
alasizon wrote:
I think the obsession with AA @ NYC is overrated. NYC is maybe what 3-4% of AA's seats? The issue is far bigger than NYC.


Agreed.

Take ORD for example. AA has been slowly dieing internationally from ORD for years now. BRU, FRA, NRT, PEK, PVG, ZUR, SVO, DEL, HEL, etc. Pretty much the only thing that's left transoceanic is DUB, LHR, CDG, and MAN? Ridiculous.

Dougie thinks he can become a ULCC and still command legacy yields on par with DL and UA and that just isn't the case.

Really? All of those routes were cut before Doug and LUS arrived here with the exception of NRT, PVG and PEK. And admittedly those were dogs. They have added ATH, BUD, FAI, KRK, and ANC and have talked internally about adding gauge next year to several key markets from ORD.

How is AA a ULCC?
NK/F9 don’t have: WiFi, streaming live TV and content to your personal device, power in every seat (and yes they are being installed on the LUS), 30 plus in pitch with MCE option, clubs, a frequent flyer program, free drinks and snacks in Y, and a network that is superior to AA. YES, operations were messy over the summer and there is work to do, but the gap to the competition to DL and UA is closing. It honestly amazes me that AA gets so much flack on here. Also, Oasis isn’t a bad thing. A terrible lav? Yes. A seat in Y that is more comfortable for me ( 6’2 and 250) is also an accurate statement. At least the arm rest is skinnier and the seat isn’t angled in a way that our old 737 gave me sciatica after 2 hours !!!

Parker could be replaced tomorrow with “John Smith” who could announce one new route from DFW to anywhere exotic and this forum would be praising the new AA spirit with out anything materially changing.

Get a grip. The big three are the big three. DL is undoubtedly on the top right now. However, the chairs shuffle quickly on the deck and AA or UA could easily take the top spot without too much more effort.
 
crownvic
Posts: 2487
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:44 am

BNAMealer wrote:
Some steps AA should take to fix itself

1. Improve operational reliability and customer experience/service (I.e, ditch Project Oasis)

2. Build back up JFK/LGA and stop this nonsense of shifting everything to PHL.

3. Optimize/rebuild the layouts of DFW and CLT, their most profitable hubs for better connections. Not necessarily saying rebuild the entire terminal space at each place, but there are things they can do at both that could make things more efficient.

4. Upgauge to more mainline flights in their core hubs of DFW, CLT and ORD.

5. Improve the soft product in all classes



On your #2 comment, maybe NYC is not the "top dog" everyone thinks it still is. Have you been there at all recently? Horrible traffic and it has lost it's charm from the past. My wife and I have visited this place for the last time and I have been traveling to NY for nearly 60 years. Everything is horribly expensive and maybe airlines just do not make a profit from there. Remember General Motors? Remember Sears? While I am not saying NYC is done, perhaps it is not as important as it once was, especially with more point to point international flying to other cities. Many of you are too young to know, some of America's most important cities once were Cleveland and Pittsburgh. They are a shadow of importance in America compared to what they once were. Not everything lasts forever and perhaps NYC's best days are behind it. Look at their sports teams :stirthepot:
 
Etheereal
Posts: 354
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:44 am

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:48 am

You see.. the funny part is that they havent done a proper critic of their own faults. They blame the MAX (which is not even close to be an important factor)
 
gokmengs
Posts: 1241
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:48 am

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:40 am

crownvic wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
Some steps AA should take to fix itself

1. Improve operational reliability and customer experience/service (I.e, ditch Project Oasis)

2. Build back up JFK/LGA and stop this nonsense of shifting everything to PHL.

3. Optimize/rebuild the layouts of DFW and CLT, their most profitable hubs for better connections. Not necessarily saying rebuild the entire terminal space at each place, but there are things they can do at both that could make things more efficient.

4. Upgauge to more mainline flights in their core hubs of DFW, CLT and ORD.

5. Improve the soft product in all classes



On your #2 comment, maybe NYC is not the "top dog" everyone thinks it still is. Have you been there at all recently? Horrible traffic and it has lost it's charm from the past. My wife and I have visited this place for the last time and I have been traveling to NY for nearly 60 years. Everything is horribly expensive and maybe airlines just do not make a profit from there. Remember General Motors? Remember Sears? While I am not saying NYC is done, perhaps it is not as important as it once was, especially with more point to point international flying to other cities. Many of you are too young to know, some of America's most important cities once were Cleveland and Pittsburgh. They are a shadow of importance in America compared to what they once were. Not everything lasts forever and perhaps NYC's best days are behind it. Look at their sports teams :stirthepot:

Hate to say it but your bad experience with your wife and the horrible traffic, especially it being very expensive ( since its filled with people who can afford it) doesn’t change the fact that its one of the largest markets in the world. Airlines’ that manage it well are making money, and they will continue to do so.
Yaşa Mustafa Kemal Paşa Yaşa, Adın Yazılacak Mücevher Taşa
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3314
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:29 am

OB1504 wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
What's interesting to me is that all of the US3 have densified their Y cabin domestically and now all offer essentially 30 inch pitch on their domestic Y fleets, but for some reason AA gets the most hate for it. DL has PTVs so that obviously steers criticism away from their seating. I don't see why UA doesn't get the same criticism, especially because they still fail to provide power/USB ports at every seat. On their new 737 Max 9 for example, for every 3 Y seats, there are only 2 power ports. I do find UA and DL Y seating to be generally more comfortable/padded than AA in Y, so that could play a role.


For AA, it's not just the 30" pitch, but the combination of the cheap feel of the Oasis interiors (and the atrocious premium cabin not worth the upcharge) on top of all of the other issues they have. AA went to 30" pitch with the arrival of the new build A319s in 2014, but the hate didn't really start until the arrival of the 737 MAX and the gradual loss of everything else that would've made 30" pitch a worthwhile trade off. Even the 737 MAX narrowly averted having 29" pitch in some rows, and passengers and crews still hated it from day one.

I agree that Delta's economy class seats are much more comfortable than AA's. My back was starting to hurt after 30 minutes when I flew on an AA 737 MAX from MCO to MIA, but I've done ATL-SEA on refurbished Delta 757s with 30" pitch several times without any comfort issues.


Sorry but people were bitching about the A319's 30" pitch from near day one. It was covered quite well on here on airliners.net as well.
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 429
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:51 am

Getting rid of that horrible AA livery would be a first start to leveling the wings and climbing. Gray paint is NOT polished shiny aviation aluminum.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
User avatar
OzarkD9S
Posts: 5413
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:31 am

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:48 am

KlimaBXsst wrote:

Getting rid of that horrible AA livery would be a first start to leveling the wings and climbing. Gray paint is NOT polished shiny aviation aluminum.


People don't chose airlines based on the exterior livery. They pick them on price, schedule, hard and soft product, reliability and service among other criteria. The livery is WAY down the list, if on the list at all. Av-geeks excluded of course, to a point.
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
oldannyboy
Posts: 2424
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:18 am

Sadly it's all about financial performance it appears. Nowhere in the article it says that they are worried about DL "being a better airline". Guys this all about financial performance and nothing about providing people with a better, more humane treatment. Typical American corporate thinking. CEO is probably wondering where he can make further cuts and erode further services to return better profits for shareholders!
 
User avatar
BA744PHX
Posts: 237
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:42 am

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:16 am

I find it hilarious how everyone blames Doug for AA's problems, most of you forget AA wouldn't be around today if HP/US management weren't running the show. There is a reason AA had to merge, Doug's team was given an operation who's employees and travelers expect 5 star service, but only willing to pay 3 star prices (prior to Doug + team). Something had to give and the team is now running an airline without being negative in revenue.

AA's glory days and its previous management teams are the reason AA is what is it today. Blame them and not the current team who is helping AA survive
UA Gold 2019, DL Silver 2019
Upcoming flights
UA EWR-ZRH - November
UA EWR-LHR/YYZ - December
UA EWR-BCN/MAD, FR BCN-MAK, IB MAK-MAD - January
 
ethernal
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon May 06, 2019 12:09 pm

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:18 am

OB1504 wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
I agree that Delta's economy class seats are much more comfortable than AA's. My back was starting to hurt after 30 minutes when I flew on an AA 737 MAX from MCO to MIA, but I've done ATL-SEA on refurbished Delta 757s with 30" pitch several times without any comfort issues.


The vast majority of the seats on Delta's 757s (and A321s and 737s for that matter) are 31". Unfortunately Delta is willing to compromise a few rows in order to squeeze in seats at the exit row intervals (the 739 has, I believe, 3 rows at 30" pitch), but more than likely you sat in a 31" pitch seat. I wish Delta would clearly tag on their site which rows are 30" pitch but unfortunately they don't do that so you are sometimes confused as to why things are tighter than usual.

Still, most of Delta's seats are 31". Not enough to work effectively but enough not to be uncomfortable. 30" is where comfort issues become apparent (at least for me, who is admittedly 6' 4").
 
Miamiairport
Posts: 249
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:09 pm

I think the response from Parker and team will be more fees, less product innovation and attempts through a lower fare structure to put a butt in every seat. AA doesn't innovate, it only copies when it needs to. Operationally AA wants to run the kind of "fine oiled machine" of DL has and reap the benefits but doesn't have the ability to do so, including banked hubs.

Never once does Parker say we want to be the airline that the once/twice a month business traveler (and they are there in significant numbers) wants to fly.
 
JAMBOJET
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:23 pm

Re: AA Leadership Recognizes Widening Gap Between Itself, Delta - article

Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:30 pm

ethernal wrote:
OB1504 wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
I agree that Delta's economy class seats are much more comfortable than AA's. My back was starting to hurt after 30 minutes when I flew on an AA 737 MAX from MCO to MIA, but I've done ATL-SEA on refurbished Delta 757s with 30" pitch several times without any comfort issues.


The vast majority of the seats on Delta's 757s (and A321s and 737s for that matter) are 31". Unfortunately Delta is willing to compromise a few rows in order to squeeze in seats at the exit row intervals (the 739 has, I believe, 3 rows at 30" pitch), but more than likely you sat in a 31" pitch seat. I wish Delta would clearly tag on their site which rows are 30" pitch but unfortunately they don't do that so you are sometimes confused as to why things are tighter than usual.

Still, most of Delta's seats are 31". Not enough to work effectively but enough not to be uncomfortable. 30" is where comfort issues become apparent (at least for me, who is admittedly 6' 4").

Prove it.
Where has Delta ever said “most are 31” “?
This assumption has become some ridiculous A.net fact with no backup whatsoever. Link to something/anything that backs that statement up aside from you and your ruler.
Take the a321ceo. Delta has more seats on their a321 than any variant of the aa a321ceo.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos