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Ishrion
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Brazil In Talks With JetBlue, Volaris, and Sky Airline To Operate Domestic Flights

Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:03 pm

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/exclusiv ... 07281.html

Brazil is determined to lure airlines to operate domestic flights in Latin America's largest aviation market, and is taking meetings with at least three carriers, a senior government official told Reuters.


"We are going to talk with Jet Blue, we are going to talk with Volaris, a Mexican group ... we are going to talk with Sky Airline, which is Chilean," Ronei Glanzmann, Brazil's civil aviation secretary, told Reuters on the sidelines of the ALTA Airline Leaders Forum, an industry conference.


JetBlue - U.S.
Volaris - Mexico
Sky Airline - Chile

Will be interesting to see if this goes through... Would JetBlue/Volaris launch Deep South American routes to station aircraft?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Brazil In Talks With JetBlue, Volaris, and Sky Airline To Operate Domestic Flights

Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:06 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Would JetBlue/Volaris launch Deep South American routes to station aircraft?


P=zero on JetBlue operating that way. They would have a Brazilian subsidiary with a separate pilot/FA seniority list and local staff. They won't operate with U.S. staff, wages, and labor rules in Brazil.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Brazil In Talks With JetBlue, Volaris, and Sky Airline To Operate Domestic Flights

Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:16 pm

If Jetblue ever get in, things should get interesting to say, with Neeleman already operating Azul in Brazil.

Sky is the most likely IMHO, even though they don't currently fly to anywhere in Brazil.
Last edited by zakuivcustom on Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
santi319
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Re: Brazil In Talks With JetBlue, Volaris, and Sky Airline To Operate Domestic Flights

Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:17 pm

What a horrible time to need a new airline, with the Max groundings and the backlog of Airbus, its a tough position to be in.

Only hope is create a Brazilian LCC using E2 aircraft but even then the economics wont add up.
 
vtchaz78
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Re: Brazil In Talks With JetBlue, Volaris, and Sky Airline To Operate Domestic Flights

Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:21 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Would JetBlue/Volaris launch Deep South American routes to station aircraft?


P=zero on JetBlue operating that way. They would have a Brazilian subsidiary with a separate pilot/FA seniority list and local staff. They won't operate with U.S. staff, wages, and labor rules in Brazil.


Pilot CBA specifically prohibits this. Not going to happen.
 
Bluewho
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Re: Brazil In Talks With JetBlue, Volaris, and Sky Airline To Operate Domestic Flights

Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:26 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Would JetBlue/Volaris launch Deep South American routes to station aircraft?


P=zero on JetBlue operating that way. They would have a Brazilian subsidiary with a separate pilot/FA seniority list and local staff. They won't operate with U.S. staff, wages, and labor rules in Brazil.



Yeah not like that with our contract.
Now you could TDY guys down there but if they are JetBlue planes they are JetBlue pilots.

It is interesting that Spirit or Frontier were not asked just JetBlue.
 
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lesfalls
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Re: Brazil In Talks With JetBlue, Volaris, and Sky Airline To Operate Domestic Flights

Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:28 pm

Air Europa has confirmed its plans and is currently in the works on setting up domestic ops in the country. I wonder of the 3 above who will join them.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
INFINITI329
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Re: Brazil In Talks With JetBlue, Volaris, and Sky Airline To Operate Domestic Flights

Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:44 pm

vtchaz78 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Would JetBlue/Volaris launch Deep South American routes to station aircraft?


P=zero on JetBlue operating that way. They would have a Brazilian subsidiary with a separate pilot/FA seniority list and local staff. They won't operate with U.S. staff, wages, and labor rules in Brazil.


Pilot CBA specifically prohibits this. Not going to happen.


Couldn't Jetblue argue that since it would be technically and legally a Brazilan airline that, that clause would not be enforceable?
 
flyby519
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Re: Brazil In Talks With JetBlue, Volaris, and Sky Airline To Operate Domestic Flights

Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:59 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:
vtchaz78 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

P=zero on JetBlue operating that way. They would have a Brazilian subsidiary with a separate pilot/FA seniority list and local staff. They won't operate with U.S. staff, wages, and labor rules in Brazil.


Pilot CBA specifically prohibits this. Not going to happen.


Couldn't Jetblue argue that since it would be technically and legally a Brazilan airline that, that clause would not be enforceable?


If JB has operational control of the carrier then the contract would apply.
 
jumbojet
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Re: Brazil In Talks With JetBlue, Volaris, and Sky Airline To Operate Domestic Flights

Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:16 pm

with B6 still trying to figure Europe out, its entirely possible this is a project of such scope and size that they are unable to take it on at the present time. And I am not saying that to bash B6 but Europe right now has to be a full time project
 
flyby519
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Re: Brazil In Talks With JetBlue, Volaris, and Sky Airline To Operate Domestic Flights

Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:22 pm

jumbojet wrote:
with B6 still trying to figure Europe out, its entirely possible this is a project of such scope and size that they are unable to take it on at the present time. And I am not saying that to bash B6 but Europe right now has to be a full time project


I agree 100%. I’m honestly not sure why B6 is taking this meeting.
 
avi8
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Re: Brazil In Talks With JetBlue, Volaris, and Sky Airline To Operate Domestic Flights

Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:01 pm

flyby519 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
with B6 still trying to figure Europe out, its entirely possible this is a project of such scope and size that they are unable to take it on at the present time. And I am not saying that to bash B6 but Europe right now has to be a full time project


I agree 100%. I’m honestly not sure why B6 is taking this meeting.


They may not want a hub in Brazil, but what if they launched FLL-GRU or some other city with the XLR and a few domestic flights to feed their USA flights?
avi8
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Brazil In Talks With JetBlue, Volaris, and Sky Airline To Operate Domestic Flights

Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:12 pm

flyby519 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
with B6 still trying to figure Europe out, its entirely possible this is a project of such scope and size that they are unable to take it on at the present time. And I am not saying that to bash B6 but Europe right now has to be a full time project


I agree 100%. I’m honestly not sure why B6 is taking this meeting.

You're invited by a government to enter a potentially huge market, be crazy not to go and hear them out. If you can do it, great, if not, oh well you at least made a shot at it.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
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PRGEC
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Re: Brazil In Talks With JetBlue, Volaris, and Sky Airline To Operate Domestic Flights

Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:55 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
If Jetblue ever get in, things should get interesting to say, with Neeleman already operating Azul in Brazil.

Sky is the most likely IMHO, even though they don't currently fly to anywhere in Brazil.


Sky do fly to GIG, GRU and seasonally FLN and SSA.
Libertas quæ sera tamen
 
rabader
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Re: Brazil In Talks With JetBlue, Volaris, and Sky Airline To Operate Domestic Flights

Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:07 pm

Volaris is already doing this in Costa Rica; I wouldn't rule out the possibility of start operating there if the conditions are right. BTW is worth nothing that Volaris is part of INDIGO Group, so they have a large number of A320 orders

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volaris_Costa_Rica
 
jumbojet
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Re: Brazil In Talks With JetBlue, Volaris, and Sky Airline To Operate Domestic Flights

Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:29 pm

jetblueguy22 wrote:
flyby519 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
with B6 still trying to figure Europe out, its entirely possible this is a project of such scope and size that they are unable to take it on at the present time. And I am not saying that to bash B6 but Europe right now has to be a full time project


I agree 100%. I’m honestly not sure why B6 is taking this meeting.

You're invited by a government to enter a potentially huge market, be crazy not to go and hear them out. If you can do it, great, if not, oh well you at least made a shot at it.


but why even bother and waste your time when you probably, as a small low cost leisure airline, already have enough on your plate? They probably know that they would be getting in over their heads at this point. Kind of like Alaska a few years ago when they were knee deep with the Virgin America acquisition. Again, nothing against B6 but they need to focus on Europe before even thinking about a meeting with the Brazilian government about domestic flights in South Am.
 
11C
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Re: Brazil In Talks With JetBlue, Volaris, and Sky Airline To Operate Domestic Flights

Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:41 pm

jumbojet wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
flyby519 wrote:

I agree 100%. I’m honestly not sure why B6 is taking this meeting.

You're invited by a government to enter a potentially huge market, be crazy not to go and hear them out. If you can do it, great, if not, oh well you at least made a shot at it.


but why even bother and waste your time when you probably, as a small low cost leisure airline, already have enough on your plate? They probably know that they would be getting in over their heads at this point. Kind of like Alaska a few years ago when they were knee deep with the Virgin America acquisition. Again, nothing against B6 but they need to focus on Europe before even thinking about a meeting with the Brazilian government about domestic flights in South Am.


I agree, ETOPS, Europe, A220 fleet integration, LR, and XLR integration seems like more than enough.
 
DDR
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Re: Brazil In Talks With JetBlue, Volaris, and Sky Airline To Operate Domestic Flights

Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:44 pm

Why doesn't the Brasilian government just restart Varig? Lots of governments bankroll the national airline.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Brazil In Talks With JetBlue, Volaris, and Sky Airline To Operate Domestic Flights

Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:00 am

11C wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
You're invited by a government to enter a potentially huge market, be crazy not to go and hear them out. If you can do it, great, if not, oh well you at least made a shot at it.


but why even bother and waste your time when you probably, as a small low cost leisure airline, already have enough on your plate? They probably know that they would be getting in over their heads at this point. Kind of like Alaska a few years ago when they were knee deep with the Virgin America acquisition. Again, nothing against B6 but they need to focus on Europe before even thinking about a meeting with the Brazilian government about domestic flights in South Am.


I agree, ETOPS, Europe, A220 fleet integration, LR, and XLR integration seems like more than enough.

Turning down such an opportunity would be silly. At least listen. If a great opportunity, hire a VP and a few directors to start the paperwork.

Norwegian has destroyed yield to Europe, follow the money. Not listening would be bad form. A flight, a couple if hotel rooms, and a few executives loose a week focusing on other tasks, a small price for a big opportunity (or not, the details matter).

Lightsaber
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TheWorm123
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Re: Brazil In Talks With JetBlue, Volaris, and Sky Airline To Operate Domestic Flights

Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:07 am

DDR wrote:
Why doesn't the Brasilian government just restart Varig? Lots of governments bankroll the national airline.


Likely politics, the current government is far right and as such they’d likely never start or support a nationalised business.
B752 B753 A332 A321 B738
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Brazil In Talks With JetBlue, Volaris, and Sky Airline To Operate Domestic Flights

Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:41 am

jumbojet wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
flyby519 wrote:

I agree 100%. I’m honestly not sure why B6 is taking this meeting.

You're invited by a government to enter a potentially huge market, be crazy not to go and hear them out. If you can do it, great, if not, oh well you at least made a shot at it.


but why even bother and waste your time when you probably, as a small low cost leisure airline, already have enough on your plate? They probably know that they would be getting in over their heads at this point. Kind of like Alaska a few years ago when they were knee deep with the Virgin America acquisition. Again, nothing against B6 but they need to focus on Europe before even thinking about a meeting with the Brazilian government about domestic flights in South Am.

Because you don't turn down an opportunity to possibly make a boat load of cash. A meeting isn't a commitment for anything. I don't know a salesman alive that wouldn't go to a meeting like this, even if on paper the company wouldn't be able to do it. Even with Europe on the horizon you take the meeting, enjoy some sunshine and good food, and then figure out if it's possible. Just saying no from the get go leaves you no opportunity. Literally no risk involved in going to the meeting.

Yes they have a lot on their plate, not really going to argue with you there, but one of B6's biggest issues is they just are just stagnant. Want to fly from JFK-Florida/Caribbean/Mexico? Great! Want to fly to somewhere else? Well, good luck to you. Europe is a fix, but they are in this awkward in between point right now. They aren't US3, but they aren't NK. So where are they going? They either need to be content with being a WN with domestic and shorter international legs or they need to expand and be a US3. This could perhaps be a way to expand their reach and stay out of the bloodbath that is US-Europe, or at least hedge themselves for it.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Brazil In Talks With JetBlue, Volaris, and Sky Airline To Operate Domestic Flights

Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:45 am

11C wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
You're invited by a government to enter a potentially huge market, be crazy not to go and hear them out. If you can do it, great, if not, oh well you at least made a shot at it.


but why even bother and waste your time when you probably, as a small low cost leisure airline, already have enough on your plate? They probably know that they would be getting in over their heads at this point. Kind of like Alaska a few years ago when they were knee deep with the Virgin America acquisition. Again, nothing against B6 but they need to focus on Europe before even thinking about a meeting with the Brazilian government about domestic flights in South Am.


I agree, ETOPS, Europe, A220 fleet integration, LR, and XLR integration seems like more than enough.

The people who would take these meetings are involved in all the big picture stuff of what you mentioned, but in the grand scheme of things they are providing direction, not the details. Managers or director levels should be dealing with all of that.

And really, if they are struggling to bring the LR and XLR into the fleet, aircraft which base models they already operate, they have much bigger things to worry about.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
tphuang
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Re: Brazil In Talks With JetBlue, Volaris, and Sky Airline To Operate Domestic Flights

Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:18 am

11C wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
You're invited by a government to enter a potentially huge market, be crazy not to go and hear them out. If you can do it, great, if not, oh well you at least made a shot at it.


but why even bother and waste your time when you probably, as a small low cost leisure airline, already have enough on your plate? They probably know that they would be getting in over their heads at this point. Kind of like Alaska a few years ago when they were knee deep with the Virgin America acquisition. Again, nothing against B6 but they need to focus on Europe before even thinking about a meeting with the Brazilian government about domestic flights in South Am.


I agree, ETOPS, Europe, A220 fleet integration, LR, and XLR integration seems like more than enough.

Keep in mind that they would want to fly to Brazil at some point. Plenty of reason to be friendly with a government that is looking to liberalize the aviation sector.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Brazil In Talks With JetBlue, Volaris, and Sky Airline To Operate Domestic Flights

Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:29 am

jumbojet wrote:
but why even bother and waste your time when you probably, as a small low cost leisure airline, already have enough on your plate?

Because your shareholders would (and should) flay you alive, if you turned down a nearly free opportunity to thoroughly investigate significant new revenue flows and operational strategies.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
77H
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Re: Brazil In Talks With JetBlue, Volaris, and Sky Airline To Operate Domestic Flights

Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:45 am

Any guesses as to why an airline like B6 was approached but none of the US3? DL and UA are already pretty heavily invested in several SA carriers.

77H
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Brazil In Talks With JetBlue, Volaris, and Sky Airline To Operate Domestic Flights

Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:49 am

Reuters was less than enthusiastic about prospects: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-braz ... SKBN1XB3Y7

Yes, the word doomed appeared in their title.

Brazil transported 118 million passengers in 2018, 20% more than Mexico, Latin America’s No. 2 market.

However, experts say airlines in Brazil struggle with sky high fuel taxes, labor costs and legal liabilities - as well as lack of access to the coveted Congonhas airport in Sao Paulo, where the landing slots are fully booked.
...
Those already operating in the country are not particularly profitable. Brazilian carriers lost 10.5 billion reais ($2.62 billion) in the last five years, according to L.E.K, a consulting firm, while local executives do not strike an encouraging tone.

Gol, Brazil’s largest domestic airline, has lost 9 billion reais since 2008. The market’s No. 2 carrier, LATAM Airlines Group (LTM.SN), lost 440 million reais in Brazil in 2018.
...
Fares in Brazil are at historic lows, averaging $100 each way in 2018. Gol averaged $88. But expenses are high, preventing the efficiencies that allow carriers like Ireland’s Ryanair Holdings (RYA.I) to turn a profit.

“The difference is that Ryanair can make money at $88 a ticket and Gol cannot,” said Carlos Ozores, from consulting firm ICF.

Big markets can be attractive. Big markets where everybody loses money year after year are not.
 
avi8
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Re: Brazil In Talks With JetBlue, Volaris, and Sky Airline To Operate Domestic Flights

Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:25 pm

TheWorm123 wrote:
DDR wrote:
Why doesn't the Brasilian government just restart Varig? Lots of governments bankroll the national airline.


Likely politics, the current government is far right and as such they’d likely never start or support a nationalised business.


I think you misunderstand what “far right” means. Anyways, the new Brazilian government wants to boost the economy by decreasing regulations and restrictions, at least from what I understand. We’ll see if that works.
avi8
 
TheWorm123
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Re: Brazil In Talks With JetBlue, Volaris, and Sky Airline To Operate Domestic Flights

Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:31 am

avi8 wrote:
TheWorm123 wrote:
DDR wrote:
Why doesn't the Brasilian government just restart Varig? Lots of governments bankroll the national airline.


Likely politics, the current government is far right and as such they’d likely never start or support a nationalised business.


I think you misunderstand what “far right” means. Anyways, the new Brazilian government wants to boost the economy by decreasing regulations and restrictions, at least from what I understand. We’ll see if that works.

Oh yes they’ll be planning dramatically decrease regulations, however it will be to support for-profit private businesses, they’d never do it for publicly owned companies; such as the proposal to restart Varig.
B752 B753 A332 A321 B738
 
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mooseofspruce
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Re: Brazil In Talks With JetBlue, Volaris, and Sky Airline To Operate Domestic Flights

Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:37 am

rabader wrote:
Volaris is already doing this in Costa Rica; I wouldn't rule out the possibility of start operating there if the conditions are right. BTW is worth nothing that Volaris is part of INDIGO Group, so they have a large number of A320 orders

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volaris_Costa_Rica

If not Volaris perhaps JetSmart which also shares roots in Indigo, and is due to begin service from SCL to Brazil around the turn of the new year. It'd also be an opportunity for them to expand in South America like they already have in Argentina. Although that would mean there'd be two Chilean prospects, supposing that matters.
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