Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
jumbojet
Topic Author
Posts: 2957
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

IAG Boss Congratulates DL on LATAM Move, Calls Norwegian & JetBlue Deal Very Limited: (Article).

Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:37 am

Very interesting article, I didnt see this posted but lots of good stuff in here. DL is sure getting a lot of praise from some notable airlines, not just from Anet Delta fan boys.

Envious IAG Boss Congratulates Delta on Latam Move

some interesting quoutes:

Delta Air Lines shocked the aviation world with its decision to buy a 20 percent stake in Latam Airlines Group for $1.9 billion at the end of September and the repercussions of the deal are likely to rumble on for some time.
While the move will strengthen Delta’s position in South America it has thrown a spanner in the works of the Oneworld airline alliance,



IAG CEO Willie Walsh told analysts on an earnings call on Thursday, that it was a “very good strategic move” for Delta, before conceding that it meant a change in the way his airlines interact with Latam.



Even before the news of Delta’s deal broke, IAG and American had suffered a blow with their plans for the region, when a court in Chile banned their joint venture proposals.



And on Norwegian Air...

Norwegian, which was once a takeover target of IAG’s, has managed in recent months to put itself on a stronger financial footing. Although Walsh didn’t get much of the fuss about the interline agreement with JetBlue, which he dubbed “very limited”.


Complete article here:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/envious- ... 03704.html
Last edited by SQ22 on Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
airbazar
Posts: 10120
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Envious IAG Boss Congratulates DL on LATAM Move, Calls Norwegian & JetBlue Deal Very Limited: (Article).

Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:05 pm

IAG's mistake was allowing AA to be their proxy for strategic decisions in Latin America. As the saying goes, never send a ferret to do a weasel's job :)
 
jfk777
Posts: 7340
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: Envious IAG Boss Congratulates DL on LATAM Move, Calls Norwegian & JetBlue Deal Very Limited: (Article).

Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:12 pm

LATAM leaving One World is a big deal since Latin America was one continent where 3 OW airlines had dominant positions. Latam inside South America, AA to & from the USA plus Iberia being huge between Europe and Latin America. This will hurt in ways not yet seen. Air France/KLM which have huge Latin operations from CDG & AMS will likely benefit especially in Sao Paulo where Latam has its main hub. MIA will probably not change much since Latam already has large operations there, what happens to ATL with Delta is the 64K question. Always interesting in aviation never a dull moment.
 
User avatar
DL747400
Posts: 937
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:04 pm

Re: Envious IAG Boss Congratulates DL on LATAM Move, Calls Norwegian & JetBlue Deal Very Limited: (Article).

Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:29 pm

When even IAG's Walsh is publicly admitting that this was a profound shift with far reaching implications, how can some people continue to say that DL/LATAM won't affect OW or AA much at all?
From First to Worst: The history of Airliners.net.

All posts reflect my opinions, not those of my employer or any other company.
 
onwFan
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: Envious IAG Boss Congratulates DL on LATAM Move, Calls Norwegian & JetBlue Deal Very Limited: (Article).

Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:10 pm

Does this signal that IAG is not interested in proceeding with the JV? If so, pretty awesome indeed of LATAM to give up MIA and MAD to lead the pack of DL’s loss-making investments.
 
User avatar
Pudelhund
Posts: 260
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:06 pm

Re: Envious IAG Boss Congratulates DL on LATAM Move, Calls Norwegian & JetBlue Deal Very Limited: (Article).

Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:23 pm

Guys, he is clearly brown-nosing Ed Bastian in hopes of IAG not being gobbled up in the Delta equity empire too. Delta is unstoppable. Why does anyone else even bother competing. Just pack it up and go home. AA in particular. Dougie lol. amirite?
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 10195
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Re: Envious IAG Boss Congratulates DL on LATAM Move, Calls Norwegian & JetBlue Deal Very Limited: (Article).

Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:32 pm

jumbojet wrote:
And on Norwegian Air...

Norwegian, which was once a takeover target of IAG’s, has managed in recent months to put itself on a stronger financial footing. Although Walsh didn’t get much of the fuss about the interline agreement with JetBlue, which he dubbed “very limited”.


Complete article here:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/envious- ... 03704.html

Has anyone realized that this agreement allows B6 to connect in LGW to Norwegian when they add LON in 2021? It basically telegraphs they will be at LGW.
 
Phoenix757767
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: Envious IAG Boss Congratulates DL on LATAM Move, Calls Norwegian & JetBlue Deal Very Limited: (Article).

Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:50 pm

Pudelhund wrote:
Guys, he is clearly brown-nosing Ed Bastian in hopes of IAG not being gobbled up in the Delta equity empire too. Delta is unstoppable. Why does anyone else even bother competing. Just pack it up and go home. AA in particular. Dougie lol. amirite?

Hell would freeze over first, never going to happen.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 7791
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: IAG Boss Congratulates DL on LATAM Move, Calls Norwegian & JetBlue Deal Very Limited: (Article).

Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:54 pm

There's a high probability for LGW, but there are lots of other plausible NAS destinations that could also be served by B6: CDG, AMS, MAD, FCO, BCN, DUB, MAN...
 
User avatar
usdcaguy
Posts: 1514
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:41 pm

Re: Envious IAG Boss Congratulates DL on LATAM Move, Calls Norwegian & JetBlue Deal Very Limited: (Article).

Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:57 pm

Pudelhund wrote:
Guys, he is clearly brown-nosing Ed Bastian in hopes of IAG not being gobbled up in the Delta equity empire too. Delta is unstoppable. Why does anyone else even bother competing. Just pack it up and go home. AA in particular. Dougie lol. amirite?


Not exactly. AA is incredibly strong in areas where DL cannot compete, such as Texas, Philadelphia/West NJ, DCA and in Latin markets out of MIA. They are still strong out of LAX. DL is chipping away at them in NYC and LAX, but AA is still in the game, even with bad Dougie management.
 
NYCAdvantage
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:01 pm

Re: Envious IAG Boss Congratulates DL on LATAM Move, Calls Norwegian & JetBlue Deal Very Limited: (Article).

Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:00 pm

onwFan wrote:
Does this signal that IAG is not interested in proceeding with the JV? If so, pretty awesome indeed of LATAM to give up MIA and MAD to lead the pack of DL’s loss-making investments.

If that happens losing Iberia will be hard no question about it, but then again they may have to join forces with air Europa, better than nothing... in the UK they will have VS, if OneWorld goes that way, they can also do a JV with AF KL,
Time will tell.
 
onwFan
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: Envious IAG Boss Congratulates DL on LATAM Move, Calls Norwegian & JetBlue Deal Very Limited: (Article).

Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:17 pm

NYCAdvantage wrote:
onwFan wrote:
Does this signal that IAG is not interested in proceeding with the JV? If so, pretty awesome indeed of LATAM to give up MIA and MAD to lead the pack of DL’s loss-making investments.

If that happens losing Iberia will be hard no question about it, but then again they may have to join forces with air Europa, better than nothing... in the UK they will have VS, if OneWorld goes that way, they can also do a JV with AF KL,
Time will tell.

UX provides literally no feed to anywhere except Spain & the markets that LA already flies to. VS does not offer any feed at LHR. Also there are very slim chances of a combined AF/KL/UX/LA JV to be approved.
 
ScottB
Posts: 6921
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Envious IAG Boss Congratulates DL on LATAM Move, Calls Norwegian & JetBlue Deal Very Limited: (Article).

Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:46 pm

onwFan wrote:
Does this signal that IAG is not interested in proceeding with the JV? If so, pretty awesome indeed of LATAM to give up MIA and MAD to lead the pack of DL’s loss-making investments.


Tough to say. I think Ed Bastian was probably right about the alliances not driving the sort of benefits for their airline members that were once expected, although they are popular with some customers. For IAG, turning away from a JV with LATAM might be a better symbolic move for oneworld than it would be as a business decision for IAG. There's pretty much no better partner in South America than LATAM and IB benefits from access to LA's network in the region. AV probably isn't available due to the relationship with UA and G3 isn't well-suited for connectivity to the region outside of Brazil.

And... IAG owns an airline which isn't in oneworld. While EI has filed to join the transatlantic joint venture between BA/AA/IB/AY, it's not clear they will ever become part of oneworld -- or they may opt for limited oneworld connect membership. So I'd expect IAG to choose the best decision for the business, which might very well be a joint venture with an airline which is not part of any of the alliances.
 
User avatar
Aisak
Posts: 927
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:56 pm

Re: Envious IAG Boss Congratulates DL on LATAM Move, Calls Norwegian & JetBlue Deal Very Limited: (Article).

Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:15 pm

ScottB wrote:
onwFan wrote:
Does this signal that IAG is not interested in proceeding with the JV? If so, pretty awesome indeed of LATAM to give up MIA and MAD to lead the pack of DL’s loss-making investments.

And... IAG owns an airline which isn't in oneworld. While EI has filed to join the transatlantic joint venture between BA/AA/IB/AY, it's not clear they will ever become part of oneworld


Actually , 4 airlines. Aer Lingus is not part of oneworld. Neither is Vueling. Nor Level Austria or Level France. Level “Spain” is just a brand and dept within Iberia which is part of oneworld, but whose flights numbers “IB26xx” are excluded from oneworld benefits.

JV might be great for airlines as companies, but as customers it is getting harder and harder to keep up with those rulings
 
onwFan
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: Envious IAG Boss Congratulates DL on LATAM Move, Calls Norwegian & JetBlue Deal Very Limited: (Article).

Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:21 pm

ScottB wrote:
onwFan wrote:
Does this signal that IAG is not interested in proceeding with the JV? If so, pretty awesome indeed of LATAM to give up MIA and MAD to lead the pack of DL’s loss-making investments.


Tough to say. I think Ed Bastian was probably right about the alliances not driving the sort of benefits for their airline members that were once expected, although they are popular with some customers. For IAG, turning away from a JV with LATAM might be a better symbolic move for oneworld than it would be as a business decision for IAG. There's pretty much no better partner in South America than LATAM and IB benefits from access to LA's network in the region. AV probably isn't available due to the relationship with UA and G3 isn't well-suited for connectivity to the region outside of Brazil.

And... IAG owns an airline which isn't in oneworld. While EI has filed to join the transatlantic joint venture between BA/AA/IB/AY, it's not clear they will ever become part of oneworld -- or they may opt for limited oneworld connect membership. So I'd expect IAG to choose the best decision for the business, which might very well be a joint venture with an airline which is not part of any of the alliances.


Yes indeed - I also feel IAG should make the decision that is best for them. LA just let go of a great opportunity they had.

As for the alliance, yes - Skyteam has anyway always been irrelevant - it just existed because Star & oneworld were there. If LATAM retains JV with IAG and along with DL and partners with QF instead of VA, oneworld will be rendered equally meaningless. Clearly, it appears that UL, S7, RJ, QR and MH mean nothing for the remaining core of oneworld (AA/IAG/CX/QF/JL and possibly AY).
 
onwFan
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: Envious IAG Boss Congratulates DL on LATAM Move, Calls Norwegian & JetBlue Deal Very Limited: (Article).

Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:21 pm

Aisak wrote:
ScottB wrote:
onwFan wrote:
Does this signal that IAG is not interested in proceeding with the JV? If so, pretty awesome indeed of LATAM to give up MIA and MAD to lead the pack of DL’s loss-making investments.

And... IAG owns an airline which isn't in oneworld. While EI has filed to join the transatlantic joint venture between BA/AA/IB/AY, it's not clear they will ever become part of oneworld


Actually , 4 airlines. Aer Lingus is not part of oneworld. Neither is Vueling. Nor Level Austria or Level France. Level “Spain” is just a brand and dept within Iberia which is part of oneworld, but whose flights numbers “IB26xx” are excluded from oneworld benefits.

JV might be great for airlines as companies, but as customers it is getting harder and harder to keep up with those rulings


Yes, but IIRC, apart from Aer Lingus, none of the others codeshare with airlines outside of oneworld. Although I have always wondered why EI keeps codesharing with UA instead of AA - Do they have to pay UA for leaving their agreement; and want to do that only when their JV with AA is approved?
 
ScottB
Posts: 6921
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Envious IAG Boss Congratulates DL on LATAM Move, Calls Norwegian & JetBlue Deal Very Limited: (Article).

Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:19 pm

onwFan wrote:
Yes indeed - I also feel IAG should make the decision that is best for them. LA just let go of a great opportunity they had.


Not necessarily. LA wasn't going to be allowed to enter into a JV with AA and a JV with DL may be better than no JV in the U.S.-Latin America market.

It is entirely unclear that LA's exit from oneworld means that IAG should choose to not engage in a joint venture with LA, should that be allowed by regulators.

onwFan wrote:
Clearly, it appears that UL, S7, RJ, QR and MH mean nothing for the remaining core of oneworld (AA/IAG/CX/QF/JL and possibly AY).


Honestly, yes. MH is a basket case and both RJ and UL are small. S7 gives access to Russia but oneworld could probably peel SU off from SkyTeam if the market were that relevant strategically. QR is a frenemy. While they have a minority stake in IAG, they also aggressively compete for traffic which in years past had flowed over hubs like LHR and HKG.

The market does appear to be moving toward networks of carriers sharing JVs and ownership stakes. I don't think that's good for passengers since it will reduce competition but then that probably means higher profits.
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 2665
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

Re: IAG Boss Congratulates DL on LATAM Move, Calls Norwegian & JetBlue Deal Very Limited: (Article).

Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:26 pm

Does the DL agreement with LATAM preclude it working with IAG airlines? What is to stop BA/IB having a JV with LATAM for EU-South America Routes? If it makes sense what’s to stop BA/IB treating LATAM as if they were still in oneworld from an FFP point of view - which is what most posters think alliances are about.
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 8275
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: IAG Boss Congratulates DL on LATAM Move, Calls Norwegian & JetBlue Deal Very Limited: (Article).

Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:45 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
Does the DL agreement with LATAM preclude it working with IAG airlines? What is to stop BA/IB having a JV with LATAM for EU-South America Routes?


No, Delta can't do anything to stop LATAM partnering with anyone else outside of the North American market. LATAM said when the deal was announced that they intended to maintain their partnerships with Qantas and IAG. QF quickly confirmed there would be no change, but IAG have been slower to respond. Of course having a JV application in process means that there is more to work through and consider, especially as AA was a big part of their Latin America strategy as well (basically a traingle between Madrid, Miami and Santiago). Whether it ends up still being a JV or not, IAG will undoubtedly continue to partner with LATAM. No amount of dramatic OP posts linking to an article that says almost nothing of substance will change that.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
onwFan
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: Envious IAG Boss Congratulates DL on LATAM Move, Calls Norwegian & JetBlue Deal Very Limited: (Article).

Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:05 pm

ScottB wrote:
onwFan wrote:
Yes indeed - I also feel IAG should make the decision that is best for them. LA just let go of a great opportunity they had.


Not necessarily. LA wasn't going to be allowed to enter into a JV with AA and a JV with DL may be better than no JV in the U.S.-Latin America market.

It is entirely unclear that LA's exit from oneworld means that IAG should choose to not engage in a joint venture with LA, should that be allowed by regulators.

onwFan wrote:
Clearly, it appears that UL, S7, RJ, QR and MH mean nothing for the remaining core of oneworld (AA/IAG/CX/QF/JL and possibly AY).


Honestly, yes. MH is a basket case and both RJ and UL are small. S7 gives access to Russia but oneworld could probably peel SU off from SkyTeam if the market were that relevant strategically. QR is a frenemy. While they have a minority stake in IAG, they also aggressively compete for traffic which in years past had flowed over hubs like LHR and HKG.

The market does appear to be moving toward networks of carriers sharing JVs and ownership stakes. I don't think that's good for passengers since it will reduce competition but then that probably means higher profits.


Plus, customers will also lose the benefit of earn/burn miles on a broader range of carriers. Suddenly, Star looks so much more attractive from a customer point of view...
 
jetmechanicdave
Head Support
Posts: 235
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 4:27 pm

Re: IAG Boss Congratulates DL on LATAM Move, Calls Norwegian & JetBlue Deal Very Limited: (Article).

Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:48 pm

Aircraft Mechanic and Airliners.net Forum Moderator

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos