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NWAESC
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:28 pm

I know. My comment was in regard to another poster saying they should watch how they conduct themselves on social media.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
cdgdtw
Posts: 163
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:42 pm

If anyone thinks there isn't historic and inherent sexism (YES there are both genders working as cabincrew now, but I'm talking about attitudes going back a long time) in the industry, here is an interesting exercise in humanities:

Review all the above posts, and wherever it says "flight attendants", replace that with "pilots"; and wherever it says "AFA (or cabincrew union)", replace that with ALPA. Just try it and see if it sounds reasonable.
 
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EA CO AS
Topic Author
Posts: 15486
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:53 pm

cdgdtw wrote:
If anyone thinks there isn't historic and inherent sexism (YES there are both genders working as cabincrew now, but I'm talking about attitudes going back a long time) in the industry, here is an interesting exercise in humanities:

Review all the above posts, and wherever it says "flight attendants", replace that with "pilots"; and wherever it says "AFA (or cabincrew union)", replace that with ALPA. Just try it and see if it sounds reasonable.


Can you provide examples? I don’t have time to scroll back through 300 posts to satisfy your litmus test.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2469
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:00 am

cessna2 wrote:
Sara Nelson is not a lazy union leader. One only needs to look at the initiatives she has pushed through as the head of AFA. Furthermore being out in the airport at DTW yesterday, versus at home during thanksgiving negates that point even more. Where were DL leaders yesterday? Definitely not in the airports thanking those that had to work.


Herb Kelleher they ain't, that's for sure.

I imagine this brings back the memories for many:

https://people.com/archive/cleared-for- ... -41-no-16/
 
Packson
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:49 am

EA CO AS wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
Then why did the pilots keep their high percentage of profit sharing when Delta arbitrarily cut the non-union?


Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the pilots have their percentage cut and only reinstated when they threw a fit? That's what I seem to remember, although I'll gladly stand corrected if that's not the case.

Phoenix757767 wrote:
Delta has to negotiate with the FAs if they become unionized and can’t impose nor dictate terms.


Profit sharing is voluntary until such time as it becomes part of a CBA, meaning DL can modify or suspend it as they see fit, anytime they want.

Phoenix757767 wrote:
Your statement is totally untrue.


No, my statement about DL reducing the profit sharing to FAs if they vote for a union is just my opinion, same as yours. Neither your statement nor mine are true or untrue until we see how things play out, okay Boof?



Wrong ps was negotiated away into pay raises in pilot contract 2012. The percentage was lowered from 15% for the first 2.5 billion down to 10% for the first 2.5 billion and converted into hourly rates. The company again tried lower ps and change how it was calculated and that was shot down in when we the pilots voted No on their first TA in 2015. This resulted in the company not changing the formula as the pilots said they would not pass a contract with a modified PS...

As for Fa raises, they recieved a 14% increase the year the company announced changes to their PS, essentially converting some of the annual PS into hourly rates (the pilots that year received a 3% raise). Not that any of this matters, because pilots pay is determined by their peers pay and benefits. Fa's pay needs to reflect that of their peers....not the pilots. Apple's and Oranges
 
N983AN
Posts: 111
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:52 am

Phoenix757767 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
people do get their jobs back


You mean like the IAM represented Ramp group at SEA for AS? :duck:

They did win the arbitration. Says a lot about you when you take glee in people losing their job.


Like how the IAM “won” the Airbus arbitration at USAIR but work didn’t come back in-house? Are you familiar with that one?
 
Phoenix757767
Posts: 319
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:54 pm

N983AN wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:

You mean like the IAM represented Ramp group at SEA for AS? :duck:

They did win the arbitration. Says a lot about you when you take glee in people losing their job.


Like how the IAM “won” the Airbus arbitration at USAIR but work didn’t come back in-house? Are you familiar with that one?

Tell the whole story, the company filed Bantu abrogate our CBA. And yes the work was brought back in-house in our 2008 JCBA, 50% of billable hours.

https://www.post-gazette.com/business/b ... 0501070161

US Airways' pact with 8,800 machinists tossed out by bankruptcy court
 
Phoenix757767
Posts: 319
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:56 pm

Packson wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
Then why did the pilots keep their high percentage of profit sharing when Delta arbitrarily cut the non-union?


Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the pilots have their percentage cut and only reinstated when they threw a fit? That's what I seem to remember, although I'll gladly stand corrected if that's not the case.

Phoenix757767 wrote:
Delta has to negotiate with the FAs if they become unionized and can’t impose nor dictate terms.


Profit sharing is voluntary until such time as it becomes part of a CBA, meaning DL can modify or suspend it as they see fit, anytime they want.

Phoenix757767 wrote:
Your statement is totally untrue.


No, my statement about DL reducing the profit sharing to FAs if they vote for a union is just my opinion, same as yours. Neither your statement nor mine are true or untrue until we see how things play out, okay Boof?



Wrong ps was negotiated away into pay raises in pilot contract 2012. The percentage was lowered from 15% for the first 2.5 billion down to 10% for the first 2.5 billion and converted into hourly rates. The company again tried lower ps and change how it was calculated and that was shot down in when we the pilots voted No on their first TA in 2015. This resulted in the company not changing the formula as the pilots said they would not pass a contract with a modified PS...

As for Fa raises, they recieved a 14% increase the year the company announced changes to their PS, essentially converting some of the annual PS into hourly rates (the pilots that year received a 3% raise). Not that any of this matters, because pilots pay is determined by their peers pay and benefits. Fa's pay needs to reflect that of their peers....not the pilots. Apple's and Oranges

No FAs received a 14% raise, that’s blatantly false.

And every news article shows almost a 20% raise for pilots with no reduction in PS.
 
Varsity1
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:32 pm

cdgdtw wrote:
If anyone thinks there isn't historic and inherent sexism (YES there are both genders working as cabincrew now, but I'm talking about attitudes going back a long time) in the industry, here is an interesting exercise in humanities:

Review all the above posts, and wherever it says "flight attendants", replace that with "pilots"; and wherever it says "AFA (or cabincrew union)", replace that with ALPA. Just try it and see if it sounds reasonable.


Do you realize how sexist this job is in Europe/Asia/Middle East? They are fired for almost nothing, and hired for their appearance.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
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DL747400
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:35 pm

A quick Google search confirms the raise of more than 14% via multiple sources, proving that your post is blatantly false. This was announced on September 16, 2015 and was bundled with restoration of profit sharing to the original formula as well as increase in 401K company match. Sounds like a pretty good year for DELTA employees, if you ask me.

https://news.delta.com/delta-invests-mo ... -employees

"Base pay rates will increase by 14.5 percent for all eligible merit, ground and flight attendant employees around the world on Dec. 1."
From First to Worst: The history of Airliners.net.

All posts reflect my opinions, not those of my employer or any other company.
 
NWAESC
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:05 pm

The 14% raise and return to "old" PS formula didn't take place at the same time. They talk about it in the article you linked above.

That said (and at the risk of speaking for the IFS group) I don't think base rates per se top the list of reasons for wanting to organize?
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
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DL747400
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:18 pm

NWAESC wrote:
The 14% raise and return to "old" PS formula didn't take place at the same time. They talk about it in the article you linked above.


OK, I see we need to be really, really precise for some folks, so here it is:

Three announcements bundled together in a single news release, with varying effective dates. I suspect whatever internal memos were issued were similar.

:dollarsign: 14.5% base pay raise announced September 16, 2015 and became effective on December 1, 2015. :checkmark:

:dollarsign: Restoration of PS to the original formula announced September 16, 2015 and effective January 1, 2016 for PS payouts effective on February 14, 2017 and beyond. :checkmark:

:dollarsign: 401K company match increased to a maximum of 6% announced September 16, 2015 and effective January 1, 2016. :checkmark:
From First to Worst: The history of Airliners.net.

All posts reflect my opinions, not those of my employer or any other company.
 
NWAESC
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:45 pm

No need to be condescending. Clear communication is always a good thing- especially online. Nuance, intent, and context are often lost.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
Phoenix757767
Posts: 319
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:56 pm

DL747400 wrote:
A quick Google search confirms the raise of more than 14% via multiple sources, proving that your post is blatantly false. This was announced on September 16, 2015 and was bundled with restoration of profit sharing to the original formula as well as increase in 401K company match. Sounds like a pretty good year for DELTA employees, if you ask me.

https://news.delta.com/delta-invests-mo ... -employees

"Base pay rates will increase by 14.5 percent for all eligible merit, ground and flight attendant employees around the world on Dec. 1."

The pilots received their 20% pay raise from 2012 to 2015. Show me where the FAs got 14.5% in 2012.
 
JAMBOJET
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:06 pm

DL747400 wrote:
NWAESC wrote:
The 14% raise and return to "old" PS formula didn't take place at the same time. They talk about it in the article you linked above.


OK, I see we need to be really, really precise for some folks, so here it is:

Three announcements bundled together in a single news release, with varying effective dates. I suspect whatever internal memos were issued were similar.

:dollarsign: 14.5% base pay raise announced September 16, 2015 and became effective on December 1, 2015. :checkmark:

:dollarsign: Restoration of PS to the original formula announced September 16, 2015 and effective January 1, 2016 for PS payouts effective on February 14, 2017 and beyond. :checkmark:

:dollarsign: 401K company match increased to a maximum of 6% announced September 16, 2015 and effective January 1, 2016. :checkmark:

What point are you trying to make?
From what you referenced, it seems obvious Delta intended to take away profit sharing with the 14.5% increase then gave it back after the union pilots hung on to it.
 
NWAESC
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:15 pm

Exactly. And they made it quite clear repeatedly in internal announcements as well. The narrative at the time was that (paraphrasing) "you told us you want more of your compensation in the form of base pay."
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
Phoenix757767
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:49 pm

DL747400 wrote:
NWAESC wrote:
The 14% raise and return to "old" PS formula didn't take place at the same time. They talk about it in the article you linked above.


OK, I see we need to be really, really precise for some folks, so here it is:

Three announcements bundled together in a single news release, with varying effective dates. I suspect whatever internal memos were issued were similar.

:dollarsign: 14.5% base pay raise announced September 16, 2015 and became effective on December 1, 2015. :checkmark:

:dollarsign: Restoration of PS to the original formula announced September 16, 2015 and effective January 1, 2016 for PS payouts effective on February 14, 2017 and beyond. :checkmark:

:dollarsign: 401K company match increased to a maximum of 6% announced September 16, 2015 and effective January 1, 2016. :checkmark:

Pilots got their raises from 2012-2015, so where did the FAs get their 14% in 2012-2015?

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... 0-by-2015/

Delta pilots to get pay rate increases of close to 20% by 2015
 
Detroit313
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:09 pm

Delta flight attendants at the moment are very tired of the toxic uniforms, the messy international main cabin service that requires way more work with no extra pay and extra flight attendants, shady tactics like holding them hostages on airplanes when they are about to time out and their horrible work rules.

I'm sorry but if you look at United and American's work rules, sick policy and health insurance, they are so much better. Not even close.
 
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DL747400
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:22 am

Phoenix757767 wrote:
The pilots received their 20% pay raise from 2012 to 2015. Show me where the FAs got 14.5% in 2012.


14.5% base pay raise announced September 16, 2015 and became effective on December 1, 2015.
From First to Worst: The history of Airliners.net.

All posts reflect my opinions, not those of my employer or any other company.
 
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DL747400
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:24 am

JAMBOJET wrote:
What point are you trying to make? From what you referenced, it seems obvious Delta intended to take away profit sharing with the 14.5% increase then gave it back after the union pilots hung on to it.


I’m not trying to make any point whatsoever. I was simply responding to a blatantly false, misleading, and untrue statement made by another poster.

My response supplied the correct, true, and factual information along with the source. End of story.
From First to Worst: The history of Airliners.net.

All posts reflect my opinions, not those of my employer or any other company.
 
Packson
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:50 am

Phoenix757767 wrote:
DL747400 wrote:
NWAESC wrote:
The 14% raise and return to "old" PS formula didn't take place at the same time. They talk about it in the article you linked above.


OK, I see we need to be really, really precise for some folks, so here it is:

Three announcements bundled together in a single news release, with varying effective dates. I suspect whatever internal memos were issued were similar.

:dollarsign: 14.5% base pay raise announced September 16, 2015 and became effective on December 1, 2015. :checkmark:

:dollarsign: Restoration of PS to the original formula announced September 16, 2015 and effective January 1, 2016 for PS payouts effective on February 14, 2017 and beyond. :checkmark:

:dollarsign: 401K company match increased to a maximum of 6% announced September 16, 2015 and effective January 1, 2016. :checkmark:

Pilots got their raises from 2012-2015, so where did the FAs get their 14% in 2012-2015?

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... 0-by-2015/

Delta pilots to get pay rate increases of close to 20% by 2015


Quite comparing the raises of Fa's and pilots. Two drastically different skill sets. Pilots pay is in relation to their fellow pilots peers..IT'S THAT SIMPLE! Pilot pay is not pegged to Fa's or vice versa. The flight attendants received a 14% pay raise in October of either 2015 or 2016 ( don't really know or care...but it did happen)! This big pay rate was a conversion of some PS to hourly rates. At this point there was 2 separate PS formulas one for pilots (dispatchers piggy backed on the pilots ps as they had something in their working agreement pertaining to that) and FA's with the new lower limit. This lasted a little over a year until the following February ps payout and FA's rightfully so they were upset that the pilots were getting a higher percentage. The reason why was, the pilots voted against a contract that was suppose to lower their ps as well...After this the industry found new contracts at UPS, Fedex, Sw and UAL. The failed pilot agreement now set a new higher bar for the second round of negotiations and resulted in a substantial pay bump over what had previously failed (the new standard was raised by the pilots peers at the previous mentioned airline's).

Now the fight you need to focus on is, how do you stack up against AA, UAL, SW, FA'S...NOT pilots. Pilots base their pay and benefits along with UPS, FedEx, Ual, SW, Pilots
 
n7371f
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:37 am

Well of course someone with DTW in their user name would blow a gasket over the new intl coach service that requires more work. You folks used to bitch and moan if NWA required an extra breath out of you.

Detroit313 wrote:
Delta flight attendants at the moment are very tired of the toxic uniforms, the messy international main cabin service that requires way more work with no extra pay and extra flight attendants, shady tactics like holding them hostages on airplanes when they are about to time out and their horrible work rules.

I'm sorry but if you look at United and American's work rules, sick policy and health insurance, they are so much better. Not even close.
 
Phoenix757767
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:11 am

DL747400 wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
The pilots received their 20% pay raise from 2012 to 2015. Show me where the FAs got 14.5% in 2012.


14.5% base pay raise announced September 16, 2015 and became effective on December 1, 2015.

And like I stated. The FAs didn’t get the same percentage raise as the pilots.
 
Detroit313
Posts: 348
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:54 am

n7371f wrote:
Well of course someone with DTW in their user name would blow a gasket over the new intl coach service that requires more work. You folks used to bitch and moan if NWA required an extra breath out of you.

Detroit313 wrote:
Delta flight attendants at the moment are very tired of the toxic uniforms, the messy international main cabin service that requires way more work with no extra pay and extra flight attendants, shady tactics like holding them hostages on airplanes when they are about to time out and their horrible work rules.

I'm sorry but if you look at United and American's work rules, sick policy and health insurance, they are so much better. Not even close.


What exactly is wrong with people who want better pay when they are asked to do way more work? Do you personally work for free in your life? You never want to get a raise?
 
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DL747400
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:28 pm

Phoenix757767 wrote:
DL747400 wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
The pilots received their 20% pay raise from 2012 to 2015. Show me where the FAs got 14.5% in 2012.


14.5% base pay raise announced September 16, 2015 and became effective on December 1, 2015.

And like I stated. The FAs didn’t get the same percentage raise as the pilots.


The FAs don't fly the planes, either!
From First to Worst: The history of Airliners.net.

All posts reflect my opinions, not those of my employer or any other company.
 
Phoenix757767
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:00 pm

DL747400 wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
DL747400 wrote:

14.5% base pay raise announced September 16, 2015 and became effective on December 1, 2015.

And like I stated. The FAs didn’t get the same percentage raise as the pilots.


The FAs don't fly the planes, either!

Apples and oranges. So why did ALL the other employees get the same percentage excepts the pilots who got way more, earlier and more?

And then why did the pilots get another 40% raise in the next contract while the rest got barely nothing?

And the autopilot flies the plane more than the pilots.

I can see a pilot earning more but their profession has zero to do with a percentage of a raise. If flying is so prestigious, then why do a lot of flight attendants make more than a regional pilot?
 
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DL747400
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:12 pm

Phoenix757767 wrote:
DL747400 wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
And like I stated. The FAs didn’t get the same percentage raise as the pilots.


The FAs don't fly the planes, either!

Apples and oranges. So why did ALL the other employees get the same percentage excepts the pilots who got way more, earlier and more?

And then why did the pilots get another 40% raise in the next contract while the rest got barely nothing?

And the autopilot flies the plane more than the pilots.

I can see a pilot earning more but their profession has zero to do with a percentage of a raise. If flying is so prestigious, then why do a lot of flight attendants make more than a regional pilot?


Me thinks someone checked the wrong box on their employment application and is now regretting their decision.

Your comments are a lesson to us all, clearly demonstrating the importance of pre-employment screening.
From First to Worst: The history of Airliners.net.

All posts reflect my opinions, not those of my employer or any other company.
 
Phoenix757767
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:58 pm

DL747400 wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
DL747400 wrote:

The FAs don't fly the planes, either!

Apples and oranges. So why did ALL the other employees get the same percentage excepts the pilots who got way more, earlier and more?

And then why did the pilots get another 40% raise in the next contract while the rest got barely nothing?

And the autopilot flies the plane more than the pilots.

I can see a pilot earning more but their profession has zero to do with a percentage of a raise. If flying is so prestigious, then why do a lot of flight attendants make more than a regional pilot?


Me thinks someone checked the wrong box on their employment application and is now regretting their decision.

Your comments are a lesson to us all, clearly demonstrating the importance of pre-employment screening.

Good to see you had to use an ad hominem attack instead of refuting my points.

And one don’t work for delta and never did, was with US and never was a Flight Attendant, try again.
 
cessna2
Posts: 372
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:17 pm

DL747400 wrote:
NWAESC wrote:
The 14% raise and return to "old" PS formula didn't take place at the same time. They talk about it in the article you linked above.


OK, I see we need to be really, really precise for some folks, so here it is:

Three announcements bundled together in a single news release, with varying effective dates. I suspect whatever internal memos were issued were similar.

:dollarsign: 14.5% base pay raise announced September 16, 2015 and became effective on December 1, 2015. :checkmark:

:dollarsign: Restoration of PS to the original formula announced September 16, 2015 and effective January 1, 2016 for PS payouts effective on February 14, 2017 and beyond. :checkmark:

:dollarsign: 401K company match increased to a maximum of 6% announced September 16, 2015 and effective January 1, 2016. :checkmark:

You have your facts wrong about the PS. When the 14.5% raise was announced the PS formula was changed to a lower amount for all employees except pilots and dispatchers for 2016. The February 2017 payout was 10.1% compared to the pilots 17%. Which caused an uproar within the company. So sometime in mid 2017 an announcement was made that the PS formula would revert back to what the pilots had effective October 1, 2017 because two different formulas didn’t feel “like a family.” More like union cards were being signed left and right. 2018 was the first full year back on the same plan and the payout was 14% across the board.
 
Packson
Posts: 25
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:21 pm

Phoenix757767 wrote:
DL747400 wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
And like I stated. The FAs didn’t get the same percentage raise as the pilots.


The FAs don't fly the planes, either!

Apples and oranges. So why did ALL the other employees get the same percentage excepts the pilots who got way more, earlier and more?

And then why did the pilots get another 40% raise in the next contract while the rest got barely nothing?

And the autopilot flies the plane more than the pilots.

I can see a pilot earning more but their profession has zero to do with a percentage of a raise. If flying is so prestigious, then why do a lot of flight attendants make more than a regional pilot?



Pilots took 36% paycuts to save the company from bankruptcy which ultimately they did anyway and took even more while dumping the pilots pension...not freezing it, dumping it. The pilots took far larger paycuts as a dollar amount and as a percentage. It was going to come back at a higher percentage as well when times were good. The pilots never got a 40% pay raise in a contract cycle either. No what your talking about before you speak! The last cycle was 18% first year (which was to match gains that AA and SW gave their pilots again Delta paying their pilots on par with their peers) second year was 4%, third 3% and fourth 4%) These rates kept Delta at or slightly above their peers at other airlines. You still try and argue that you should receive something along the lines of pilots when you need to focus pay rates amongst other FA group's.

Now as to you comment about the job being nothing more than auto pilot. I encourage you to apply to the military for pilot training, spend an 8 year commitment to uncle sam flying, in some cases over hostile countries and dropping bombs knowing your actions saved some and killed some then apply to Delta.....Or go the civilian route rack well over a 125,000 in student debt so you can go fly at a regional airline for a few years making less than a FA. These are all choices and you apparently made yours but want to change the financial rules to suit your needs. For that i salute you, but realize FA's role in safely operating a flight will NEVER be near the same level of pilots...good luck going down that road...you'll only find yourself on Anti-depressants
 
Packson
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:28 pm

Phoenix757767 wrote:
A plane can’t take without the required number of FAs either.


Really FA's are not needed to fly an airplane. Can happen any day as long as there are fewer than 19 passengers...just the facts please. Planes will and do take off every day without FA's.
 
Phoenix757767
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:39 pm

Packson wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
DL747400 wrote:

The FAs don't fly the planes, either!

Apples and oranges. So why did ALL the other employees get the same percentage excepts the pilots who got way more, earlier and more?

And then why did the pilots get another 40% raise in the next contract while the rest got barely nothing?

And the autopilot flies the plane more than the pilots.

I can see a pilot earning more but their profession has zero to do with a percentage of a raise. If flying is so prestigious, then why do a lot of flight attendants make more than a regional pilot?



Pilots took 36% paycuts to save the company from bankruptcy which ultimately they did anyway and took even more while dumping the pilots pension...not freezing it, dumping it. The pilots took far larger paycuts as a dollar amount and as a percentage. It was going to come back at a higher percentage as well when times were good. The pilots never got a 40% pay raise in a contract cycle either. No what your talking about before you speak! The last cycle was 18% first year (which was to match gains that AA and SW gave their pilots again Delta paying their pilots on par with their peers) second year was 4%, third 3% and fourth 4%) These rates kept Delta at or slightly above their peers at other airlines. You still try and argue that you should receive something along the lines of pilots when you need to focus pay rates amongst other FA group's.

Now as to you comment about the job being nothing more than auto pilot. I encourage you to apply to the military for pilot training, spend an 8 year commitment to uncle sam flying, in some cases over hostile countries and dropping bombs knowing your actions saved some and killed some then apply to Delta.....Or go the civilian route rack well over a 125,000 in student debt so you can go fly at a regional airline for a few years making less than a FA. These are all choices and you apparently made yours but want to change the financial rules to suit your needs. For that i salute you, but realize FA's role in safely operating a flight will NEVER be near the same level of pilots...good luck going down that road...you'll only find yourself on Anti-depressants

Every employee took cute, the pilots NEGOTIATED their cuts, can’t say the same for the rest of the employees.
 
Packson
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 2:27 am

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:52 pm

Phoenix757767 wrote:
Packson wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
Apples and oranges. So why did ALL the other employees get the same percentage excepts the pilots who got way more, earlier and more?

And then why did the pilots get another 40% raise in the next contract while the rest got barely nothing?

And the autopilot flies the plane more than the pilots.

I can see a pilot earning more but their profession has zero to do with a percentage of a raise. If flying is so prestigious, then why do a lot of flight attendants make more than a regional pilot?



Pilots took 36% paycuts to save the company from bankruptcy which ultimately they did anyway and took even more while dumping the pilots pension...not freezing it, dumping it. The pilots took far larger paycuts as a dollar amount and as a percentage. It was going to come back at a higher percentage as well when times were good. The pilots never got a 40% pay raise in a contract cycle either. No what your talking about before you speak! The last cycle was 18% first year (which was to match gains that AA and SW gave their pilots again Delta paying their pilots on par with their peers) second year was 4%, third 3% and fourth 4%) These rates kept Delta at or slightly above their peers at other airlines. You still try and argue that you should receive something along the lines of pilots when you need to focus pay rates amongst other FA group's.

Now as to you comment about the job being nothing more than auto pilot. I encourage you to apply to the military for pilot training, spend an 8 year commitment to uncle sam flying, in some cases over hostile countries and dropping bombs knowing your actions saved some and killed some then apply to Delta.....Or go the civilian route rack well over a 125,000 in student debt so you can go fly at a regional airline for a few years making less than a FA. These are all choices and you apparently made yours but want to change the financial rules to suit your needs. For that i salute you, but realize FA's role in safely operating a flight will NEVER be near the same level of pilots...good luck going down that road...you'll only find yourself on Anti-depressants

Every employee took cute, the pilots NEGOTIATED their cuts, can’t say the same for the rest of the employees.


Ok what percentage of a paycut did FA's take? Was it higher or lower than pilots? You know the answer but dont want to admit it. So when the pilots had they pay cut by 40% and their pension dumped into the PBGC (which BTW really only pays out 20% of what pilots would have gotten had their pension been frozen like the other employees) who took the largest paycuts?

Now after the company found itself on stable ground and profits began to return who had the farthest to go as a percentage of pay to reclaim their pay cuts? The correct answers will allow you to find peace with your diatribe against the pilots. Again, I'm all for paying Delta FA's near the top of their profession (they deserve it). Where you will never win an argument with anyone is trying to peg your financial gains to those of the pilots.
 
Lootess
Posts: 174
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:55 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
Delta flight attendants at the moment are very tired of the toxic uniforms, the messy international main cabin service that requires way more work with no extra pay and extra flight attendants, shady tactics like holding them hostages on airplanes when they are about to time out and their horrible work rules.

I'm sorry but if you look at United and American's work rules, sick policy and health insurance, they are so much better. Not even close.


No, what's not even close is the relationship VP Joanne has with the Delta FAs, none of the other carriers can say the same being union represented. It's just eats some of you away that a company can actually be successful having a direct relationship with their work force.
 
NWAESC
Posts: 1095
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:02 pm

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:10 pm

Phoenix757767 wrote:
And one don’t work for delta and never did, was with US and never was a Flight Attendant, try again.


Nice to see you've finally stopped pretending to be an AA employee.
cessna2 wrote:
You have your facts wrong about the PS. When the 14.5% raise was announced the PS formula was changed to a lower amount for all employees except pilots and dispatchers for 2016. The February 2017 payout was 10.1% compared to the pilots 17%. Which caused an uproar within the company. So sometime in mid 2017 an announcement was made that the PS formula would revert back to what the pilots had effective October 1, 2017 because two different formulas didn’t feel “like a family.” More like union cards were being signed left and right. 2018 was the first full year back on the same plan and the payout was 14% across the board.


^This^
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
Phoenix757767
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:01 pm

Packson wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
Packson wrote:


Pilots took 36% paycuts to save the company from bankruptcy which ultimately they did anyway and took even more while dumping the pilots pension...not freezing it, dumping it. The pilots took far larger paycuts as a dollar amount and as a percentage. It was going to come back at a higher percentage as well when times were good. The pilots never got a 40% pay raise in a contract cycle either. No what your talking about before you speak! The last cycle was 18% first year (which was to match gains that AA and SW gave their pilots again Delta paying their pilots on par with their peers) second year was 4%, third 3% and fourth 4%) These rates kept Delta at or slightly above their peers at other airlines. You still try and argue that you should receive something along the lines of pilots when you need to focus pay rates amongst other FA group's.

Now as to you comment about the job being nothing more than auto pilot. I encourage you to apply to the military for pilot training, spend an 8 year commitment to uncle sam flying, in some cases over hostile countries and dropping bombs knowing your actions saved some and killed some then apply to Delta.....Or go the civilian route rack well over a 125,000 in student debt so you can go fly at a regional airline for a few years making less than a FA. These are all choices and you apparently made yours but want to change the financial rules to suit your needs. For that i salute you, but realize FA's role in safely operating a flight will NEVER be near the same level of pilots...good luck going down that road...you'll only find yourself on Anti-depressants

Every employee took cute, the pilots NEGOTIATED their cuts, can’t say the same for the rest of the employees.


Ok what percentage of a paycut did FA's take? Was it higher or lower than pilots? You know the answer but dont want to admit it. So when the pilots had they pay cut by 40% and their pension dumped into the PBGC (which BTW really only pays out 20% of what pilots would have gotten had their pension been frozen like the other employees) who took the largest paycuts?

Now after the company found itself on stable ground and profits began to return who had the farthest to go as a percentage of pay to reclaim their pay cuts? The correct answers will allow you to find peace with your diatribe against the pilots. Again, I'm all for paying Delta FA's near the top of their profession (they deserve it). Where you will never win an argument with anyone is trying to peg your financial gains to those of the pilots.

First of all I have nothing against pilots, I merely pointing out they made out better because they are unionized and the FAs aren’t.

And I don’t know ALL the cuts non-union DL took, I do know NWAESC can tell you they took less cuts atvNW because they were unionized and even got equity, can’t say the same for DL.
 
DL777200LR
Posts: 130
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:15 am

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:49 pm

Phoenix757767 wrote:
Packson wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
Every employee took cute, the pilots NEGOTIATED their cuts, can’t say the same for the rest of the employees.


Ok what percentage of a paycut did FA's take? Was it higher or lower than pilots? You know the answer but dont want to admit it. So when the pilots had they pay cut by 40% and their pension dumped into the PBGC (which BTW really only pays out 20% of what pilots would have gotten had their pension been frozen like the other employees) who took the largest paycuts?

Now after the company found itself on stable ground and profits began to return who had the farthest to go as a percentage of pay to reclaim their pay cuts? The correct answers will allow you to find peace with your diatribe against the pilots. Again, I'm all for paying Delta FA's near the top of their profession (they deserve it). Where you will never win an argument with anyone is trying to peg your financial gains to those of the pilots.

First of all I have nothing against pilots, I merely pointing out they made out better because they are unionized and the FAs aren’t.

And I don’t know ALL the cuts non-union DL took, I do know NWAESC can tell you they took less cuts atvNW because they were unionized and even got equity, can’t say the same for DL.


So instead of comparing DL FA’s to all AA/UA/B6 FA’s you want to compare them to DL pilots just because it validates your union is always better opinion. And I guess if the DL FA’s vote no then they must not be that smart in your eyes since pilots got 20% and they didn’t.
Nothing better than the sound of a 77W GE90-115B on engine start.
 
Phoenix757767
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:55 pm

DL777200LR wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
Packson wrote:

Ok what percentage of a paycut did FA's take? Was it higher or lower than pilots? You know the answer but dont want to admit it. So when the pilots had they pay cut by 40% and their pension dumped into the PBGC (which BTW really only pays out 20% of what pilots would have gotten had their pension been frozen like the other employees) who took the largest paycuts?

Now after the company found itself on stable ground and profits began to return who had the farthest to go as a percentage of pay to reclaim their pay cuts? The correct answers will allow you to find peace with your diatribe against the pilots. Again, I'm all for paying Delta FA's near the top of their profession (they deserve it). Where you will never win an argument with anyone is trying to peg your financial gains to those of the pilots.

First of all I have nothing against pilots, I merely pointing out they made out better because they are unionized and the FAs aren’t.

And I don’t know ALL the cuts non-union DL took, I do know NWAESC can tell you they took less cuts atvNW because they were unionized and even got equity, can’t say the same for DL.


So instead of comparing DL FA’s to all AA/UA/B6 FA’s you want to compare them to DL pilots just because it validates your union is always better opinion. And I guess if the DL FA’s vote no then they must not be that smart in your eyes since pilots got 20% and they didn’t.

Same company. Why did ALL the other employees get the same raise at DL than the pilots? Why did the pilots keep their PS percentage while ALL other employees had theirs cut?

And AA and UA FAs make more in total compensation than DL and enjoy work rules that can’t be changed at a whim.
 
cessna2
Posts: 372
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:16 am

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:28 pm

Lootess wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
Delta flight attendants at the moment are very tired of the toxic uniforms, the messy international main cabin service that requires way more work with no extra pay and extra flight attendants, shady tactics like holding them hostages on airplanes when they are about to time out and their horrible work rules.

I'm sorry but if you look at United and American's work rules, sick policy and health insurance, they are so much better. Not even close.


No, what's not even close is the relationship VP Joanne has with the Delta FAs, none of the other carriers can say the same being union represented. It's just eats some of you away that a company can actually be successful having a direct relationship with their work force.

Two things.
1: Joanne isn't the VP of inflight. So unless you know the current standing with DL FAs and their leadership I wouldn't comment. I can tell you current leadership is out of touch with today's workforce.

2: What union carriers don't have direct relationships with leadership? I know for a fact that at AS for example, managers often times call the union reps to make sure they are doing things correctly and get contractual clarification before talking to employees. As to avoid making a mistake and having to go through the grievance process. Now that is working together.
 
DL777200LR
Posts: 130
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:15 am

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:02 pm

Phoenix757767 wrote:
DL777200LR wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
First of all I have nothing against pilots, I merely pointing out they made out better because they are unionized and the FAs aren’t.

And I don’t know ALL the cuts non-union DL took, I do know NWAESC can tell you they took less cuts atvNW because they were unionized and even got equity, can’t say the same for DL.


So instead of comparing DL FA’s to all AA/UA/B6 FA’s you want to compare them to DL pilots just because it validates your union is always better opinion. And I guess if the DL FA’s vote no then they must not be that smart in your eyes since pilots got 20% and they didn’t.

Same company. Why did ALL the other employees get the same raise at DL than the pilots? Why did the pilots keep their PS percentage while ALL other employees had theirs cut?

And AA and UA FAs make more in total compensation than DL and enjoy work rules that can’t be changed at a whim.


Again your statement of having profit sharing cut out of nowhere is false. It was reported widely in an employee survey that people preferred guaranteed pay increase than a higher profit sharing formula that isn’t guaranteed, so a higher raise (14.5%) was given and with a reduction in the PS formula. After employees save the difference in PS % (10% to 17%) employees made their voices heard that they were unhappy about the differences between work groups of the same company and the original was restarted for all employees. You want to keep ignoring that fact for some reason.
Nothing better than the sound of a 77W GE90-115B on engine start.
 
User avatar
TransWorldOne
Posts: 318
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 12:13 am

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:13 pm

Lootess wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
Delta flight attendants at the moment are very tired of the toxic uniforms, the messy international main cabin service that requires way more work with no extra pay and extra flight attendants, shady tactics like holding them hostages on airplanes when they are about to time out and their horrible work rules.

I'm sorry but if you look at United and American's work rules, sick policy and health insurance, they are so much better. Not even close.


No, what's not even close is the relationship VP Joanne has with the Delta FAs, none of the other carriers can say the same being union represented. It's just eats some of you away that a company can actually be successful having a direct relationship with their work force.


Get with the times, brother. Joanne hasn’t been the VP of inflight for a few years now. Sounds to me like you don’t know what you’re talking about. Delta FA’s would be wise to unionize. DL, like all corporations, puts shareholder return above all else. A wise man once said, “A corporation is like a brick. You can’t love the bricks and the bricks don’t love you back.” All of the happy family kumbaya ‘we care about you’ nonsense is just that. DL is no different from any other corporation in that sense.
 
Phoenix757767
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:38 pm

DL777200LR wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
DL777200LR wrote:

So instead of comparing DL FA’s to all AA/UA/B6 FA’s you want to compare them to DL pilots just because it validates your union is always better opinion. And I guess if the DL FA’s vote no then they must not be that smart in your eyes since pilots got 20% and they didn’t.

Same company. Why did ALL the other employees get the same raise at DL than the pilots? Why did the pilots keep their PS percentage while ALL other employees had theirs cut?

And AA and UA FAs make more in total compensation than DL and enjoy work rules that can’t be changed at a whim.


Again your statement of having profit sharing cut out of nowhere is false. It was reported widely in an employee survey that people preferred guaranteed pay increase than a higher profit sharing formula that isn’t guaranteed, so a higher raise (14.5%) was given and with a reduction in the PS formula. After employees save the difference in PS % (10% to 17%) employees made their voices heard that they were unhappy about the differences between work groups of the same company and the original was restarted for all employees. You want to keep ignoring that fact for some reason.

Keep trying to spin it. Pilots got 20% raises between 2012 and 2015 the non-union didn’t. And now the pilots are getting 40% in their new CBA. Don’t see non-union getting 40%

And a survey doesn’t dictate work rules and compensation. And numerous DL employees had no idea it was being cut and weren’t happy about it.
 
777Mech
Posts: 822
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:41 pm

DL777200LR wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
DL777200LR wrote:

So instead of comparing DL FA’s to all AA/UA/B6 FA’s you want to compare them to DL pilots just because it validates your union is always better opinion. And I guess if the DL FA’s vote no then they must not be that smart in your eyes since pilots got 20% and they didn’t.

Same company. Why did ALL the other employees get the same raise at DL than the pilots? Why did the pilots keep their PS percentage while ALL other employees had theirs cut?

And AA and UA FAs make more in total compensation than DL and enjoy work rules that can’t be changed at a whim.


Again your statement of having profit sharing cut out of nowhere is false. It was reported widely in an employee survey that people preferred guaranteed pay increase than a higher profit sharing formula that isn’t guaranteed, so a higher raise (14.5%) was given and with a reduction in the PS formula. After employees save the difference in PS % (10% to 17%) employees made their voices heard that they were unhappy about the differences between work groups of the same company and the original was restarted for all employees. You want to keep ignoring that fact for some reason.


I'm trying to figure out where on the survey itself that got sent out asked whether they wanted more guaranteed compensation. Everyone I've talked to hasn't seen it, and haven't asked for it. We don't know the true results of the survey, because we're all not sure how funding the pension isn't in the top 5 things that DL says employees want. It keeps getting brought up in the town halls time and time again, and folks don't even do they survey anymore because it's a sham.
 
Phoenix757767
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:05 pm

And if you are original DL when you retire the FAs face a Social Security offset. Meaning if you get $500 from SS, DL takes $500 put if their retirement. Don’t see that happening to pilots or PMNW employees.
 
Detroit313
Posts: 348
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:26 pm

The work rules for flight attendants at Delta suck compare to United and American Airlines.
 
ilovelamp
Posts: 340
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:45 am

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:39 pm

Phoenix757767 wrote:
DL777200LR wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
Same company. Why did ALL the other employees get the same raise at DL than the pilots? Why did the pilots keep their PS percentage while ALL other employees had theirs cut?

And AA and UA FAs make more in total compensation than DL and enjoy work rules that can’t be changed at a whim.


Again your statement of having profit sharing cut out of nowhere is false. It was reported widely in an employee survey that people preferred guaranteed pay increase than a higher profit sharing formula that isn’t guaranteed, so a higher raise (14.5%) was given and with a reduction in the PS formula. After employees save the difference in PS % (10% to 17%) employees made their voices heard that they were unhappy about the differences between work groups of the same company and the original was restarted for all employees. You want to keep ignoring that fact for some reason.

Keep trying to spin it. Pilots got 20% raises between 2012 and 2015 the non-union didn’t. And now the pilots are getting 40% in their new CBA. Don’t see non-union getting 40%


That’s capitalism pure and simple. The demand for qualified pilots is rising every day. Delta has to remain competitive to attract the best ones available. As has been stated above, you can train anyone to be an FA almost over night compared to the investment it takes to bring a new pilot to the level Delta and the FAA requires.

I get the point you’re trying to make but it’s not entirely truthful to say unionism is the entire reason the pilots have achieved those gains.

Maybe if FAs has a mandatory retirement age that would put upward pressure on wages and benefits.
 
Longhornmaniac
Posts: 3126
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:33 pm

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:44 pm

Phoenix757767 wrote:
DL777200LR wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
Same company. Why did ALL the other employees get the same raise at DL than the pilots? Why did the pilots keep their PS percentage while ALL other employees had theirs cut?

And AA and UA FAs make more in total compensation than DL and enjoy work rules that can’t be changed at a whim.


Again your statement of having profit sharing cut out of nowhere is false. It was reported widely in an employee survey that people preferred guaranteed pay increase than a higher profit sharing formula that isn’t guaranteed, so a higher raise (14.5%) was given and with a reduction in the PS formula. After employees save the difference in PS % (10% to 17%) employees made their voices heard that they were unhappy about the differences between work groups of the same company and the original was restarted for all employees. You want to keep ignoring that fact for some reason.

Keep trying to spin it. Pilots got 20% raises between 2012 and 2015 the non-union didn’t. And now the pilots are getting 40% in their new CBA. Don’t see non-union getting 40%

And a survey doesn’t dictate work rules and compensation. And numerous DL employees had no idea it was being cut and weren’t happy about it.


Why are you comparing across work groups at an airline? They're not competing with one another within a company. Delta is competing for pilots with other airlines, so you need to be looking at contracts elsewhere within the same labor group.

This doesn't have anything to do with union vs. not union, it has to do with the hiring dynamics within various labor groups that may or may not exist in different labor groups.

And for the record, I'm a proud union member and decidedly pro-union. I just think your argument lacks nuance.
Cheers,
Cameron
 
DL777200LR
Posts: 130
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:15 am

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:01 pm

Longhornmaniac wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
DL777200LR wrote:

Again your statement of having profit sharing cut out of nowhere is false. It was reported widely in an employee survey that people preferred guaranteed pay increase than a higher profit sharing formula that isn’t guaranteed, so a higher raise (14.5%) was given and with a reduction in the PS formula. After employees save the difference in PS % (10% to 17%) employees made their voices heard that they were unhappy about the differences between work groups of the same company and the original was restarted for all employees. You want to keep ignoring that fact for some reason.

Keep trying to spin it. Pilots got 20% raises between 2012 and 2015 the non-union didn’t. And now the pilots are getting 40% in their new CBA. Don’t see non-union getting 40%

And a survey doesn’t dictate work rules and compensation. And numerous DL employees had no idea it was being cut and weren’t happy about it.


Why are you comparing across work groups at an airline? They're not competing with one another within a company. Delta is competing for pilots with other airlines, so you need to be looking at contracts elsewhere within the same labor group.

This doesn't have anything to do with union vs. not union, it has to do with the hiring dynamics within various labor groups that may or may not exist in different labor groups.

And for the record, I'm a proud union member and decidedly pro-union. I just think your argument lacks nuance.


Exactly it doesn’t make sense. Apparently all unions for AA or UA work groups get the same raises? No yet thats the argument he’s trying to push.
Nothing better than the sound of a 77W GE90-115B on engine start.
 
Phoenix757767
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:09 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
The work rules for flight attendants at Delta suck compare to United and American Airlines.

They don’t have true work rules, it’s only a guideline.
 
Detroit313
Posts: 348
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:11 pm

Phoenix757767 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
The work rules for flight attendants at Delta suck compare to United and American Airlines.

They don’t have true work rules, it’s only a guideline.


You are right. They can change any time.
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