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Phoenix757767
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:45 pm

The pilots got 20%. Non-union recieved 3%-5% per year depending when they were hired. I never said they didn’t get a raise. Stop putting words into my posts.

https://onemileatatime.com/delta-pilot-pay-raise/


Cockpit
Delta Pilots Are Getting A 30%+ Pay Raise
DECEMBER 1, 2016 BY BEN (LUCKY) 23
DELTA, UNIONS
Roughly 82% of Delta’s 13,000 pilots have voted in favor of a new contract, which will see them getting a pay raise of over 30% over four years. Pilots had voted down an earlier contract, so while this one will be costly for the airline, at least they have an agreement that should lead to good management and pilot relations for a few years.

Never been laughed out of any negotiations I’ve been part of. Was part of the IAM CO FA negotiating committee that got them the highest pay in the industry at the time.

Put the DL koolade down.
 
Packson
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 2:27 am

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:14 am

Phoenix757767 wrote:
The pilots got 20%. Non-union recieved 3%-5% per year depending when they were hired. I never said they didn’t get a raise. Stop putting words into my posts.

https://onemileatatime.com/delta-pilot-pay-raise/


Cockpit
Delta Pilots Are Getting A 30%+ Pay Raise
DECEMBER 1, 2016 BY BEN (LUCKY) 23
DELTA, UNIONS
Roughly 82% of Delta’s 13,000 pilots have voted in favor of a new contract, which will see them getting a pay raise of over 30% over four years. Pilots had voted down an earlier contract, so while this one will be costly for the airline, at least they have an agreement that should lead to good management and pilot relations for a few years.

Never been laughed out of any negotiations I’ve been part of. Was part of the IAM CO FA negotiating committee that got them the highest pay in the industry at the time.

Put the DL koolade down.


Ok pilots got a 20% raise over 3 years. BTW are you aware of the converted Ps formula? Are you aware that we changed PS from 15% of the first 2.5 billion to 10% of the first of the first 2.5 billion and this was converted into pay rates. So this 20% you claim is misleading as most of your claim is.

Secondly, its now a 30% raise and not 40% in the last contract. You're on record saying it was a 40% raise which blatantly false! Again pilots pay and any percentage they receive has no correlation to GA pay... come to terms with that and you'll be taken more seriously.
 
Phoenix757767
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:16 am

It almost 40% and I posted an article if I was lying why would I post what they got in the last contract? Show me where any other group got an over 30% raise in the same time frame.

So in six years from 2012-2018 the pilots received over a 50% raise in salary. Show me any other group at DL who got a 50% raise from 2012-2018.

It’s not misleading it’s black and white in the 2012 and 2016 DALPA CBAs. Your the one being misleading.

Glad to see you have to attack me instead of the facts.
 
DL777200LR
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:15 am

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:33 am

Phoenix757767 wrote:
It almost 40% and I posted an article if I was lying why would I post what they got in the last contract? Show me where any other group got an over 30% raise in the same time frame.

So in six years from 2012-2018 the pilots received over a 50% raise in salary. Show me any other group at DL who got a 50% raise from 2012-2018.

It’s not misleading it’s black and white in the 2012 and 2016 DALPA CBAs. Your the one being misleading.

Glad to see you have to attack me instead of the facts.


Please show any airline union workgroup disregarding pilots who got a 50% raise in that 2012-2018 time frame.
Nothing better than the sound of a 77W GE90-115B on engine start.
 
Phoenix757767
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:39 am

DL777200LR wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
It almost 40% and I posted an article if I was lying why would I post what they got in the last contract? Show me where any other group got an over 30% raise in the same time frame.

So in six years from 2012-2018 the pilots received over a 50% raise in salary. Show me any other group at DL who got a 50% raise from 2012-2018.

It’s not misleading it’s black and white in the 2012 and 2016 DALPA CBAs. Your the one being misleading.

Glad to see you have to attack me instead of the facts.


Please show any airline union workgroup disregarding pilots who got a 50% raise in that 2012-2018 time frame.

Do your own research. At AA in 2016 all ramp and maintenance got a 26% raise, no non-union group got that.
 
DL777200LR
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:29 am

Phoenix757767 wrote:
DL777200LR wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
It almost 40% and I posted an article if I was lying why would I post what they got in the last contract? Show me where any other group got an over 30% raise in the same time frame.

So in six years from 2012-2018 the pilots received over a 50% raise in salary. Show me any other group at DL who got a 50% raise from 2012-2018.

It’s not misleading it’s black and white in the 2012 and 2016 DALPA CBAs. Your the one being misleading.

Glad to see you have to attack me instead of the facts.


Please show any airline union workgroup disregarding pilots who got a 50% raise in that 2012-2018 time frame.

Do your own research. At AA in 2016 all ramp and maintenance got a 26% raise, no non-union group got that.


So 26% raise compared to pilots 50% guess that union isn’t as good as the one for the DL pilots since you want to compare apples to oranges. And the 26% raise is because they had no new contract since 2013.
Nothing better than the sound of a 77W GE90-115B on engine start.
 
Phoenix757767
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:54 am

DL777200LR wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
DL777200LR wrote:

Please show any airline union workgroup disregarding pilots who got a 50% raise in that 2012-2018 time frame.

Do your own research. At AA in 2016 all ramp and maintenance got a 26% raise, no non-union group got that.


So 26% raise compared to pilots 50% guess that union isn’t as good as the one for the DL pilots since you want to compare apples to oranges. And the 26% raise is because they had no new contract since 2013.

Wrong the LUS side had a new CBA in 2014 with scheduled raises, neither the LUS nor the LAA CBAs were amendable till 9/2018.

Try again.
 
DL777200LR
Posts: 137
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:59 am

Phoenix757767 wrote:
DL777200LR wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
Do your own research. At AA in 2016 all ramp and maintenance got a 26% raise, no non-union group got that.


So 26% raise compared to pilots 50% guess that union isn’t as good as the one for the DL pilots since you want to compare apples to oranges. And the 26% raise is because they had no new contract since 2013.

Wrong the LUS side had a new CBA in 2014 with scheduled raises, neither the LUS nor the LAA CBAs were amendable till 9/2018.

Try again.


So you agree that the DL pilots have a better union since they got a raise double the amount
Nothing better than the sound of a 77W GE90-115B on engine start.
 
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millionsofmiles
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:26 am

I’m very pro-union...but I also know the atmosphere at Delta. If the Delta flight attendants vote in a union, the resulting clash between union and anti-union will turn that place into a battleground for the next decade.
 
Lootess
Posts: 221
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:01 am

Joanne may not be directly over in-flight, as she was promoted to CPO along with being in the board room with Ed, but the fact remains she was at the forefront of the non-union vote after the merger, FAs are still in her purview.

millionsofmiles wrote:
I’m very pro-union...but I also know the atmosphere at Delta. If the Delta flight attendants vote in a union, the resulting clash between union and anti-union will turn that place into a battleground for the next decade.


Like when Delta gave non-union FA raises that were above the NW CBA pay scales right after the merger as Delta wanted to uphold it. But it's also smart because the company has the right make their own case why the workgroup is better off non-union. Proactivity goes a long way.
 
Detroit313
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:15 am

It's going to be interesting to watch all the Delta scare tactics in the next few months.
 
Detroit313
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:19 am

millionsofmiles wrote:
I’m very pro-union...but I also know the atmosphere at Delta. If the Delta flight attendants vote in a union, the resulting clash between union and anti-union will turn that place into a battleground for the next decade.


Why exactly would such a thing happen? The last vote in 2010 was 49% For, 51% Against. Literally 50-50. Did any clashing after the vote cause any issues?

That speculation/warning sounds exactly like it is right out of Delta's playbook. Scare tactics and warnings with no basis.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 562
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:14 am

ALL this was tried, argued, and fear mongered about just a short year or so ago at B6. Guess what? The sky did not fall and they are now well on their way to their first contract. Thats the key word folks, contract. Not arbitrary work rules and benefits that can be changed at the drop of a hat.

Hopefully Delta FAs make the wise choice to lock in some good work rules and not be hypnotized by gimmicks.

Its just so funny looking at this union busting campaign unfold over there. Its literally play by play the same lines.
 
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DeltaMD90
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:41 am

I guess I shouldn't be surprised but jeez people, can we stop being so polarized?

It's easy to refute that "all unions are bad" and "unions are always a positive" because rarely are things so black and white, and there are dozens of examples to refute these laughable simplified statements.

Non unionized DL employees enjoy some pros (yes, they do!)... But representation can definitely win them some better work conditions. Voting in a union isn't going to necessarily crash the company, but let's not pretend there isn't a chance of increased friction, whether it's mostly management's fault or, you know, because the union is incompetent/greedy/unreasonable. Or a million possibilities somewhere in between.

Hate to sound like the "all sides have a point!" fence-sitter guy but rarely are situations completely black or white. Idk, makes sense to me, but everyone here seems so extreme in one way or the other.

No matter what the DL *FAs* decide, half of this forum is gonna be mad because "their side and beliefs lost" and not respect the choice the actual employees made
 
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kitplane01
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:30 am

Detroit313 wrote:
The last vote in 2010 was 49% For, 51% Against. Literally 50-50.


Seriously????
 
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airportugal310
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:26 am

Detroit313 wrote:
millionsofmiles wrote:
I’m very pro-union...but I also know the atmosphere at Delta. If the Delta flight attendants vote in a union, the resulting clash between union and anti-union will turn that place into a battleground for the next decade.


Why exactly would such a thing happen? The last vote in 2010 was 49% For, 51% Against. Literally 50-50. Did any clashing after the vote cause any issues?

That speculation/warning sounds exactly like it is right out of Delta's playbook. Scare tactics and warnings with no basis.


Ok, hardo
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
Detroit313
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:53 am

kitplane01 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
The last vote in 2010 was 49% For, 51% Against. Literally 50-50.


Seriously????


Yes. That was the last vote.
 
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millionsofmiles
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:18 am

Detroit313 wrote:
millionsofmiles wrote:
I’m very pro-union...but I also know the atmosphere at Delta. If the Delta flight attendants vote in a union, the resulting clash between union and anti-union will turn that place into a battleground for the next decade.


Why exactly would such a thing happen? The last vote in 2010 was 49% For, 51% Against. Literally 50-50. Did any clashing after the vote cause any issues?

That speculation/warning sounds exactly like it is right out of Delta's playbook. Scare tactics and warnings with no basis.


Actually, there was, and there still is. The 50-50 ratio is a contributing factor. There is a lot of bad blood between the factions. As stated, I’m very pro-union, and hope the union vote prevails, but anticipating the post-vote clash would probably be a wise thing for the union to prepare for.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:26 pm

Has the NMB certified that valid cards from 35% of the craft have been presented?
 
catiii
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:41 pm

DeltaMD90 wrote:
But representation can definitely win them some better work conditions. V


What specific "better work conditions" would the inflight employees win with a union that they don't already have?
 
CobaltScar
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:54 pm

catiii wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
But representation can definitely win them some better work conditions. V


What specific "better work conditions" would the inflight employees win with a union that they don't already have?



Shorter scheduled duty days and longer rest for one. Was it not Delta throwing all the road blocks in front of the FAA trying to slow down the new 10 hour minimum rest rules? Only now grudgingly (under threat of Union vote) stating they will comply sometime next year.

Also they can ditch their aberration of a reserve system that has people doing a mixture of reserve and scheduled days in the same month, for years.
Reserve should be something you can put behind you eventually. On the other hand some people like to bid reserve. Delta's system gives the worse of both worlds.
 
leghorn
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:02 pm

https://simpleflying.com/delta-flight-a ... ling-milk/

quarter of a million. Was she standing on the shoulders of her fellow cabin crew to be earning that?

"Ida Gomez Llanos, 79, has been a Flight Attendant with Delta Air Lines for 59 years. She was raking in a sweet USD$250,000 per annum plus perks. But a stellar career has ended in a mire of litigation and ‘he said, she said’ allegations."

The scandals in the American Auto Workers Union wouldn't be helping at the moment.
 
Detroit313
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:12 pm

catiii wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
But representation can definitely win them some better work conditions. V


What specific "better work conditions" would the inflight employees win with a union that they don't already have?


Sick policy, attendance policy, amount of vacation days, vacation pay, daily minimum guarantee pay, pay protections for cancellations or for getting bumped off trips, incentive pay rates, staffing per aircraft, health insurance quality and costs and the list goes on and on and on. Read United and AA's contracts to see how many things Delta flight attendants are missing.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:13 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Has the NMB certified that valid cards from 35% of the craft have been presented?


Way too early in the game for that. Also, the threshold is now 50% +1.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
catiii
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:03 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
catiii wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
But representation can definitely win them some better work conditions. V


What specific "better work conditions" would the inflight employees win with a union that they don't already have?


Sick policy, attendance policy, amount of vacation days, vacation pay, daily minimum guarantee pay, pay protections for cancellations or for getting bumped off trips, incentive pay rates, staffing per aircraft, health insurance quality and costs and the list goes on and on and on. Read United and AA's contracts to see how many things Delta flight attendants are missing.


Thanks. That wasn't pejorative, I genuinely don't know where there work rules are inferior to their competitors.
 
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kitplane01
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:31 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
kitplane01 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
The last vote in 2010 was 49% For, 51% Against. Literally 50-50.


Seriously????


Yes. That was the last vote.


I'm amazed what I wrote was not clear. If the vote was 49-51, then saying it was "literally 50-50" is wrong. This is basic.
 
Trip
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:22 pm

Does DL offer incentive pay or any kind of overtime pay rate at all for FAs, or is it strictly hourly salary?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:56 pm

kitplane01 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
kitplane01 wrote:

Seriously????


Yes. That was the last vote.


I'm amazed what I wrote was not clear. If the vote was 49-51, then saying it was "literally 50-50" is wrong. This is basic.


Google is a friend.

Among Delta’s nearly 20,000 flight attendants, 9,544 voted against joining the union, the Association of Flight Attendants, while 9,216 voted for a union.

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/04/busi ... delta.html
 
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NWAESC
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:27 am

Kitplane01 is being pedantic. The vote wasn’t a straight up tie, therefore it could not “literally be 50-50.”
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
Detroit313
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:28 pm

It is going to get ugly. A lot of good flight attendants who provide good service will be targeted, penalized or terminated just because they support unionization. Like it has happened many times in the past. It's really sad actually.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:45 pm

I can't explain why, but somehow this drive just feels different. Less rancor, and less of the usual plays from mgmt. I think you're correct, but sure hope you're wrong.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
dlflynhayn
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:25 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
It is going to get ugly. A lot of good flight attendants who provide good service will be targeted, penalized or terminated just because they support unionization. Like it has happened many times in the past. It's really sad actually.

Different Dept but on the Ramp I've got friends that has supported any Union desperate enough to try and get cards signed etc 25 years later we are all still here.Ive had opportunities to jump ship to AA/UA but i make way more here i know i have friends/Family at both AA/UA,seems im a lot happier also.Not a union hater just saying how it is in our dept good luck to our FA.
 
wjcandee
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:26 am

Detroit313 wrote:
[EDITED BY wjcandee, not an accurate quote:] It is going to get ugly. A lot of good flight attendants who provide good service will be targeted [and] penalized [...] just because they [EDIT: oppose unionization. [I.e. don't wear the pins, don't attend the rallies, don't visibly show their support]. Like it has happened many times in the past. It's really sad actually.


There. I fixed it.
 
cessna2
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:32 am

NWAESC wrote:
I can't explain why, but somehow this drive just feels different. Less rancor, and less of the usual plays from mgmt. I think you're correct, but sure hope you're wrong.

I think they understand the political climate is not in their favor. Also attacking AFA and Sara Nelson would only hurt them. I suspect they are working on beating AFA in a vote rather than spend the capital to keep them from it.
 
Detroit313
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:36 am

Delta management realizes that they're not just an Atlanta airline anymore. They have grown in very pro union areas like Boston, Seattle, LA, New York. Those bases are not Atlanta and Cincinnati to eat ignorant scare tactics up. The backlash will be huge if they try to adopt the shady tactics of the past again.

Even the demographics of the ATL base have changed a lot. So many seniors hired in the 50s, 60s and 70s have retired since 2010 when the last vote took place. That was the core demographic of the non union vote.
 
Detroit313
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:02 am

I wonder how long it's going to take to collect the cards.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:58 am

It sure doesn't seem like it'll take more than 3-4 mos. at this point?
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
Phoenix757767
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:44 pm

NWAESC wrote:
It sure doesn't seem like it'll take more than 3-4 mos. at this point?

It’s been ongoing for over 20 years.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:02 pm

That was then, this is now.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
Detroit313
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:53 pm

Atlanta is not what it was in 2010 when the last vote took place. Remember Delta and Northwest flight attendants were still separate when the last union vote took place.

All the Memphis flight attendants who were forced to transfer to Atlanta after the company shut down Memphis as a hub and base have changed the demographics in Atlanta. A lot of them have changed the minds of the Atlanta people since they started working together. A lot of the ATL legacy Delta senior ladies didn't know any better. Once they started working alongside their NW colleagues a lot of them realized to what extent they are being taken advantage of by management.

That was another betrayal. When the vote took place in 2010 Delta management kept promising flight attendants in Memphis and Cincinnati that the bases were safe. That they won't have to commute. Right after the vote they started shutting down the bases. Another lie. At least be transparent from the beginning. Don't lie to your employees and once you get the result you want you screw them over...
 
JAMBOJET
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:31 pm

Interesting how AFA seems to feature so prominently in an article that they clearly had no involvement in or really any direct knowledge of.

https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-f ... ck-2019-12

On a personal note, I do hope this means the end of that awful passport plum color at some point in the near future.
 
Detroit313
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:53 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
Interesting how AFA seems to feature so prominently in an article that they clearly had no involvement in or really any direct knowledge of.

https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-f ... ck-2019-12

On a personal note, I do hope this means the end of that awful passport plum color at some point in the near future.


I see more and more Delta crews wearing the alternative black and white uniform. Some are getting really sick by the purple uniform. It is very serious.
 
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DL747400
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Sat Dec 21, 2019 3:39 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
I see more and more Delta crews wearing the alternative black and white uniform. Some are getting really sick by the purple uniform. It is very serious.


:rotfl: Funny, as a Diamond Medallion who uses DELTA for the overwhelming majority of my business travel, I interact with quite a few FAs in my average 8-12 segments each month. I've been specifically looking for crews wearing the alt uniform and have thus far seen ZERO, either onboard or transiting the airports. But I'm still looking...... :rotfl:

I just love the ongoing parade of ridiculous comments about how the situation is "so serious." Multiple DELTA FAs whom I have engaged in conversation say the whole thing is a nothing more than a manufactured crisis with no basis in fact or truth. I have yet to speak with a single DELTA FA who thinks that there is any foundation to it whatsoever. Pure hogwash.
From First to Worst: The history of Airliners.net.

All posts reflect my opinions, not those of my employer or any other company.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:26 pm

I haven't seen anyone wearing an alternate uniform, either. Doesn't mean it's not happening, though.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
Detroit313
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Sat Dec 21, 2019 9:27 pm

Before AFA announced the campaign you needed a doctor's note and more to get the alternative uniform. It wasn't easy. Now anyone can get it without needing anything. If you ask for it, you get it.
 
777Mech
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Sat Dec 21, 2019 9:46 pm

DL747400 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
I see more and more Delta crews wearing the alternative black and white uniform. Some are getting really sick by the purple uniform. It is very serious.


:rotfl: Funny, as a Diamond Medallion who uses DELTA for the overwhelming majority of my business travel, I interact with quite a few FAs in my average 8-12 segments each month. I've been specifically looking for crews wearing the alt uniform and have thus far seen ZERO, either onboard or transiting the airports. But I'm still looking...... :rotfl:

I just love the ongoing parade of ridiculous comments about how the situation is "so serious." Multiple DELTA FAs whom I have engaged in conversation say the whole thing is a nothing more than a manufactured crisis with no basis in fact or truth. I have yet to speak with a single DELTA FA who thinks that there is any foundation to it whatsoever. Pure hogwash.


Being that you're a medallion they aren't going to tell you that the airline you're flying is poisoning them with the uniform.

Just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it's happening. I've seen the results first hand, and I don't have a dog in this race.
 
User avatar
chepos
Posts: 7076
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Sat Dec 21, 2019 9:51 pm

What does this alternative uniform look like? Is it just a black blazer and white shirt/black pants? Tried googling it without much success.


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wjcandee
Posts: 8318
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Sat Dec 21, 2019 9:52 pm

Reminds me of the great crisis when Eastern flight attendants were getting red rashes in the head and neck area "from the (new) L1011". The union was insisting that the aircraft be grounded, and correctly stated that the only complaints of "illness" (red rash, and asserted fever, chills, other systemic symptoms) were from flight attendants that worked the L1011. Pilots and passengers initially made no complaints, but as the hysteria spread, rumours abounded that pax and pilots actually were being affected, too, but that it was being "covered up". "Toxins" wasn't a popular word to use back then, but similar generic assertions were being made by people. Management denied there was anything wrong with this new aircraft, which only made the histrionics over the thing get worse.

People who were looking at the whole thing scientifically were indeed flummoxed. Why weren't the pilots and passengers on the same flight being affected? Why did it only seem to be happening at Eastern? What was it about the flight attendants' actual service/duty flow that put them in a situation from which this resulted? And why only on this model of aircraft?

So one of the investigators finally took a few L1011 flights. And, eventually, he saw a potential source of the L1011 "illness", and confirmed that this was indeed the problem. But not before a fair amount of "the L1011 is unsafe" stories made it into at least the NY media. As a kid, I remember hearing about it on the news radio station, which was significant to me because that's the aircraft that my uncle was (very proudly) flying for Eastern. He thought it was amazing, truly a pilot's aircraft, and so advanced for its time.

Most of you probably know this, but the L1011 at Eastern often did overwater flights, say to SJU. When it did, the FAs demonstrated the use of life vests. Part of that demonstration was to put it around their necks. Was there something on the life vests that could cause the rash? Upon initial inspection, no. But then, upon inspection of the particular life vests that the flight attendants actually used when doing the demonstrations, the answer was found: the airline (or its supplier) had helpfully stenciled "DEMO ONLY" in red on the vests that the flight attendants used for that purpose. That red material, whatever it was, was flaking off the vests from abrasion, and lodging on the necks of some FAs, looking for all the world like a rash.

The rest of the symptoms were psychosomatic. And there was much rabble-rousing of disbelief about this, to the point that the airline and Lockheed were again accused of a cover-up. However, the problem essentially went away when the Demo vests were replaced.

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose: These Delta uniforms are made by a well-known designer and a reputable manufacturer. Is it possible that some of them (or all of them) have properties that are problematic? Sure. It's possible. Or...
 
Detroit313
Posts: 407
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:53 am

Now that they are scared of AFA and made it easier for flight attendants to get the alternative, expect to see more black and white. Now anyone can get it. Before the union drive it was much harder. You had to have doctor's order and go through specific testing requested specifically by Delta to prove you have an issue. It was a nightmare for some. They couldn't even go to work and some got threatened even with termination.

It seems like they are going to replace the entire uniform by 2021.

What I don't understand is, couldn't they find a purple alternative for now? Giving them black and white makes the crews look like a hot mess.
 
User avatar
millionsofmiles
Posts: 339
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:18 am

Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:02 am

wjcandee wrote:
Reminds me of the great crisis when Eastern flight attendants were getting red rashes in the head and neck area "from the (new) L1011". The union was insisting that the aircraft be grounded, and correctly stated that the only complaints of "illness" (red rash, and asserted fever, chills, other systemic symptoms) were from flight attendants that worked the L1011. Pilots and passengers initially made no complaints, but as the hysteria spread, rumours abounded that pax and pilots actually were being affected, too, but that it was being "covered up". "Toxins" wasn't a popular word to use back then, but similar generic assertions were being made by people. Management denied there was anything wrong with this new aircraft, which only made the histrionics over the thing get worse.

People who were looking at the whole thing scientifically were indeed flummoxed. Why weren't the pilots and passengers on the same flight being affected? Why did it only seem to be happening at Eastern? What was it about the flight attendants' actual service/duty flow that put them in a situation from which this resulted? And why only on this model of aircraft?

So one of the investigators finally took a few L1011 flights. And, eventually, he saw a potential source of the L1011 "illness", and confirmed that this was indeed the problem. But not before a fair amount of "the L1011 is unsafe" stories made it into at least the NY media. As a kid, I remember hearing about it on the news radio station, which was significant to me because that's the aircraft that my uncle was (very proudly) flying for Eastern. He thought it was amazing, truly a pilot's aircraft, and so advanced for its time.

Most of you probably know this, but the L1011 at Eastern often did overwater flights, say to SJU. When it did, the FAs demonstrated the use of life vests. Part of that demonstration was to put it around their necks. Was there something on the life vests that could cause the rash? Upon initial inspection, no. But then, upon inspection of the particular life vests that the flight attendants actually used when doing the demonstrations, the answer was found: the airline (or its supplier) had helpfully stenciled "DEMO ONLY" in red on the vests that the flight attendants used for that purpose. That red material, whatever it was, was flaking off the vests from abrasion, and lodging on the necks of some FAs, looking for all the world like a rash.

The rest of the symptoms were psychosomatic. And there was much rabble-rousing of disbelief about this, to the point that the airline and Lockheed were again accused of a cover-up. However, the problem essentially went away when the Demo vests were replaced.

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose: These Delta uniforms are made by a well-known designer and a reputable manufacturer. Is it possible that some of them (or all of them) have properties that are problematic? Sure. It's possible. Or...


It wasn’t the L1011. It was the A300.

The “red sweat” was reported in the press in early 1980, and ended up being linked to the new demo life vests carried on the then-relatively new A300s in Eastern’s fleet.
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