cessna2
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:45 pm

wjcandee wrote:
They weren't abiding the rules long before 10/23/19.

There's a hearing coming up. We will see whether AFL-CIO enforces its rules or doesn't. It's ruling will have a longlasting effect on unionism. Do they find an excuse to let AFA organize DL despite its misbehavior, or do they make AFA follow the rules? It will be interesting to see what happens.

Again, no proof of that was found by the AFL-CIO. Repeating yourself over and over doesn’t make it fact. The arbitrators ruling does. Read the report. Otherwise you’re just misinformed.
 
NWAESC
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:48 pm

DL747400 wrote:
And would you be satisfied if DELTA FAs do get to have their say and the answer is the same NO vote as before? Somehow, I doubt that you would be satisfied with that.



Well, we all know assuming does...

In the end it's up to them.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
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DL747400
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:08 pm

NWAESC wrote:
DL747400 wrote:
And would you be satisfied if DELTA FAs do get to have their say and the answer is the same NO vote as before? Somehow, I doubt that you would be satisfied with that.


Well, we all know assuming does... In the end it's up to them.


Funny how you avoided answering the question. I didn’t think so.
From First to Worst: The history of Airliners.net.

All posts reflect my opinions, not those of my employer or any other company.
 
Detroit313
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:11 pm

The last vote was 51% Against, 49% For back in 2010. Since then a lot of Atlanta seniors have retired and they have hired thousands of new flight attendants. Delta is not just an Atlanta airline anymore. It has grown in other areas too. Every single base will vote Yes to AFA like it happened in 2010. The question is how strong the NO in Atlanta is going to be. It might not be enough to make up for the strong support in other bases.
 
NWAESC
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:26 pm

DL747400 wrote:
Funny how you avoided answering the question. I didn’t think so.


Not getting the answer you hoped for doesn't mean I dodged it at all. I will be satisfied if they get to vote. What the IFS workgroup chooses to do after that is entirely up to them.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
klm617
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:34 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
The last vote was 51% Against, 49% For back in 2010. Since then a lot of Atlanta seniors have retired and they have hired thousands of new flight attendants. Delta is not just an Atlanta airline anymore. It has grown in other areas too. Every single base will vote Yes to AFA like it happened in 2010. The question is how strong the NO in Atlanta is going to be. It might not be enough to make up for the strong support in other bases.



I think Delta is an Atlanta airline more than ever now.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Detroit313
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:40 pm

klm617 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
The last vote was 51% Against, 49% For back in 2010. Since then a lot of Atlanta seniors have retired and they have hired thousands of new flight attendants. Delta is not just an Atlanta airline anymore. It has grown in other areas too. Every single base will vote Yes to AFA like it happened in 2010. The question is how strong the NO in Atlanta is going to be. It might not be enough to make up for the strong support in other bases.



I think Delta is an Atlanta airline more than ever now.


In terms of percentage of total flight attendants based in Atlanta it is the least "Atlanta" airline it's ever been.
 
Phoenix757767
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:43 pm

NWAESC wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
NWAESC wrote:
The best thing (for rank and file workers) that could come out of this hearing is an end to the AFL-CIO's "no raid" clause. It won't happen, but it should.


Awesome! Then individual unions can badmouth each other publicly! Actual competition of ideas, dues, etc. Accountability!

The reason for the no-raid clause is that the harm to trade unionism generally from overt competition between unions far exceeds the benefits of organizing any one employer.

Interesting that AFA advocates and those who would organize Delta would toss this bedrock principle out the window.

I think this concept -- to willingly toss a fundamental underpinning of how a society works, regardless of long-term consequences, just to obtain some short-term result -- is happening broadly these days, and I'm not sure it's a good thing.


Competition would be good. For every union (or lodge, or local) meeting the needs of their members, there are plenty that are just coasting. IMO, it would also go a long way towards getting rid of the sclerotic structures currently in place. Business unionism is not helping anyone.

It would also have rendered this whole AFA/IAM battle moot. DL FA's have clearly indicated that they do not want to be represented by the IAM. Shouldn't they have the same say with the AFA?

Competition is only good for Delta as it will ensues neither union will get 13,000 cards signed. And the AFA has failed at Delta three times already. I
 
NWAESC
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:41 pm

The IAM has gone for 0-for-everything here as well. So what?

Look, the reality is the IAM has had years to secure representation for the IFS workgroup. It hasn’t happened. Time for the AFA to have their shot.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
Phoenix757767
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:52 pm

NWAESC wrote:
The IAM has gone for 0-for-everything here as well. So what?

Look, the reality is the IAM has had years to secure representation for the IFS workgroup. It hasn’t happened. Time for the AFA to have their shot.

They had there shot three times.
 
NWAESC
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:03 pm

Phoenix757767 wrote:
They had there shot three times.


Maybe the 4th time’ll be the charm. Who can say?
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:09 pm

NWAESC wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
They had there shot three times.


Maybe the 4th time’ll be the charm. Who can say?


I'll take that bet. DL employees are some of the happiest and best paid in the biz (total comp). Why sacrifice that? Do they really want to go to work like their peers at AA et al and hate their company, their union, and their colleagues? And have the additional "benefit" of having union dues extorted from them? That sounds like a great idea...said no one (well maybe some of the bad apples from pmNW, who thankfully are diminishing).
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
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DeltaMD90
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:32 pm

Phoenix757767 wrote:
NWAESC wrote:
The IAM has gone for 0-for-everything here as well. So what?

Look, the reality is the IAM has had years to secure representation for the IFS workgroup. It hasn’t happened. Time for the AFA to have their shot.

They had there shot three times.

Good idea, if a workgroup rejects a union that union is barred from ever trying to unionize that workgroup :twisted:

(sarcasm in case someone missed that)

The DL flight attendants don't want the IAM! Step aside, IAM, if you actually care about the DL FAs and not just scoring another "win," give another union a shot
 
Detroit313
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:50 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:
NWAESC wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
They had there shot three times.


Maybe the 4th time’ll be the charm. Who can say?


I'll take that bet. DL employees are some of the happiest and best paid in the biz (total comp). Why sacrifice that? Do they really want to go to work like their peers at AA et al and hate their company, their union, and their colleagues? And have the additional "benefit" of having union dues extorted from them? That sounds like a great idea...said no one (well maybe some of the bad apples from pmNW, who thankfully are diminishing).


Except they are not the best paid. They make more at AA, United and Southwest if you include everything and their work rules and health insurance benefits are worse.
 
Phoenix757767
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:37 pm

NWAESC wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
They had there shot three times.


Maybe the 4th time’ll be the charm. Who can say?

I hate to say this but I doubt any union will be successful at Delta for the FAs.
 
Phoenix757767
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:38 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:
NWAESC wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
They had there shot three times.


Maybe the 4th time’ll be the charm. Who can say?


I'll take that bet. DL employees are some of the happiest and best paid in the biz (total comp). Why sacrifice that? Do they really want to go to work like their peers at AA et al and hate their company, their union, and their colleagues? And have the additional "benefit" of having union dues extorted from them? That sounds like a great idea...said no one (well maybe some of the bad apples from pmNW, who thankfully are diminishing).

AA and UA are compensated on a total basis.
 
cessna2
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:51 pm

AFA hasn’t failed 3 times. Each vote got closer and closer. They’ve had 3 votes. How many has IAM had?

Over 40% of the FA workgroup has never voted. So saying it won’t be successful or that unions have been rejected in the past, shows no sight as to the current and future state of the work group.
 
Phoenix757767
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:35 pm

cessna2 wrote:
AFA hasn’t failed 3 times. Each vote got closer and closer. They’ve had 3 votes. How many has IAM had?

Over 40% of the FA workgroup has never voted. So saying it won’t be successful or that unions have been rejected in the past, shows no sight as to the current and future state of the work group.

They lost each time, that is a failure. You can’t spin it any other way.
 
signature
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:02 am

DL747400 wrote:
NWAESC wrote:
DL747400 wrote:
And would you be satisfied if DELTA FAs do get to have their say and the answer is the same NO vote as before? Somehow, I doubt that you would be satisfied with that.


Well, we all know assuming does... In the end it's up to them.


Funny how you avoided answering the question. I didn’t think so.


Any particular reason why you come across as a very angry person?

And your disclaimer isn’t going to protect you from your companies social media policy if they don’t like what they see. Food for thought.
 
klm617
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:52 am

jumbojet wrote:
Packson wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:

What about Delta pilots though. Are they not in their right mind for being unionized?


, because they get paid 1.9% of my pay,

personally, I would love to kick Alpa to the curb.


so, on average, its costing each pilot $4,000 to $5,000 a year to belong to ALPA. Thats a lot of money, even to a pilot making $250,000 a year. I mean, as someone previously mentioned, do you really even need a union? Lots of what pilots can and cant do are governed by outside authorities. Dropping ALPA, its not like all of a sudden DL will send a TATL or TPAC flight out with one set of pilots.


Without a union I'm sure that Delta pilots would be making less than they are now so 4 or 5 thousand up front to get 20 thousand more is a good investment. Delta F/As are beginning to realize this as well.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Babyshark
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:29 am

Detroit313 wrote:
The last vote was 51% Against, 49% For back in 2010. Since then a lot of Atlanta seniors have retired and they have hired thousands of new flight attendants. Delta is not just an Atlanta airline anymore. It has grown in other areas too. Every single base will vote Yes to AFA like it happened in 2010. The question is how strong the NO in Atlanta is going to be. It might not be enough to make up for the strong support in other bases.


Young new flight attendants may not be all that into unionization.
 
NWAESC
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Thu Nov 28, 2019 4:09 am

They seem more into it than any other group.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
777Mech
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:13 am

Phoenix757767 wrote:
cessna2 wrote:
AFA hasn’t failed 3 times. Each vote got closer and closer. They’ve had 3 votes. How many has IAM had?

Over 40% of the FA workgroup has never voted. So saying it won’t be successful or that unions have been rejected in the past, shows no sight as to the current and future state of the work group.

They lost each time, that is a failure. You can’t spin it any other way.


So has the IAM.
 
Phoenix757767
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:07 pm

777Mech wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
cessna2 wrote:
AFA hasn’t failed 3 times. Each vote got closer and closer. They’ve had 3 votes. How many has IAM had?

Over 40% of the FA workgroup has never voted. So saying it won’t be successful or that unions have been rejected in the past, shows no sight as to the current and future state of the work group.

They lost each time, that is a failure. You can’t spin it any other way.


So has the IAM.

IAM has never had a vote at DL for flight attendants, try again.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:17 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
The last vote was 51% Against, 49% For back in 2010. Since then a lot of Atlanta seniors have retired and they have hired thousands of new flight attendants. Delta is not just an Atlanta airline anymore. It has grown in other areas too. Every single base will vote Yes to AFA like it happened in 2010. The question is how strong the NO in Atlanta is going to be. It might not be enough to make up for the strong support in other bases.


I wouldn't presume how SEA and LAX bases are going to vote. Overall it may be a close vote - if it even gets to a vote in the near-term.
 
JAMBOJET
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:32 pm

Phoenix757767 wrote:
777Mech wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
They lost each time, that is a failure. You can’t spin it any other way.


So has the IAM.

IAM has never had a vote at DL for flight attendants, try again.

Boof02671
Give it a rest...
The weird pro-IAM only nonsense gets tiring for every thread. You’re a retired IAM guy and clearly have a bias. Own it and stop changing your handle.

If delta FAs unionize, good for them; if they don’t, it’s their choice.
 
NWAESC
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:32 pm

Win/lose/draw, I would fully expect an AFA vote to be close.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
777Mech
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:35 pm

Phoenix757767 wrote:
777Mech wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
They lost each time, that is a failure. You can’t spin it any other way.


So has the IAM.

IAM has never had a vote at DL for flight attendants, try again.


If they can't even organize a vote, they have failed, no matter how you slice it. This is why the AFA is stepping in again.
 
NWAESC
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:35 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
Boof02671
Give it a rest...
The weird pro-IAM only nonsense gets tiring for every thread. You’re a retired IAM guy and clearly have a bias. Own it and stop changing your handle.

If delta FAs unionize, good for them; if they don’t, it’s their choice.


+1 to all of that.

In the end, it's up to the F/As to decide their path.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
Detroit313
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:38 pm

Younger people are very pro union.

It was the Atlanta senior mamas that pushed the NO ahead of YES for just a few votes back in 2010. A lot of them have retired or passed away since then.

Every base except for Atlanta voted YES back then. Even Salt Lake City.
 
Phoenix757767
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:57 pm

13,000 cards is a tough task for any union.
 
NWAESC
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Thu Nov 28, 2019 4:23 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
Younger people are very pro union.


Agreed. I'm not sure why people keep saying that they're the roadblock...
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
NWAESC
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Thu Nov 28, 2019 4:24 pm

Phoenix757767 wrote:
13,000 cards is a tough task for any union.


If DL IFS wants it bad enough, they'll get what they need to call for a vote.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
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DeltaMD90
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:46 pm

Phoenix757767 wrote:
13,000 cards is a tough task for any union.

But didn't rhe AFA get enough cards a few times? Not super well versed in unionization but you're trashing the AFA for failing 3 times when the IAM didn't even get enough cards to fail once?

Regardless, it seems like the IAM's most recent push is a failure... Time for them to step aside and let someone else (even if it's not the AFA) to have their turn
 
cessna2
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:05 pm

DeltaMD90 wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
13,000 cards is a tough task for any union.

But didn't rhe AFA get enough cards a few times? Not super well versed in unionization but you're trashing the AFA for failing 3 times when the IAM didn't even get enough cards to fail once?

Regardless, it seems like the IAM's most recent push is a failure... Time for them to step aside and let someone else (even if it's not the AFA) to have their turn

Agreed! 3 votes whether they won or not is 3 successes. Unless you're the type of person that looks at a glass half full of water as half empty.
Instead of IAM focusing on building a union they continually disparage AFA-CWA. IAM will never succeed at DL. The whole labor industry gets that. Why they can't let go is anyones guess. Almost makes you think DL is paying off IAM and they'll lose money. But it just hurts the DL FAs that desperately need representation. Best of luck to AFA and DL. The Labor group stands behind you!
 
Detroit313
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:49 pm

Sara Nelson spent Thanksgiving at DTW surrounded by many Delta flight attendants. You'll be surprised by how fast they will collect those cards and ask for a vote. The campaign clearly has momentum. Pretty much every single Delta flight attendant I know has changed their Facebook profile picture to the purple AFA selfie frame to support the campaign.
 
Phoenix757767
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:32 pm

DeltaMD90 wrote:
Phoenix757767 wrote:
13,000 cards is a tough task for any union.

But didn't rhe AFA get enough cards a few times? Not super well versed in unionization but you're trashing the AFA for failing 3 times when the IAM didn't even get enough cards to fail once?

Regardless, it seems like the IAM's most recent push is a failure... Time for them to step aside and let someone else (even if it's not the AFA) to have their turn

Not with 25,000 flight attendants.
 
NWADTWE16
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:36 pm

Pulling for an AFA vote and the FA group to get the organized representation needed more so than ever in todays Corporate Plutocratic Oligarch society.

Delta has done/is doing well with cash/profits...it's good they share some with the employees that help get them those results. As a very loyal Medallion the service is spot on but the amenities are slipping. That says the upper echelon cuts corners even when raking in the doe. Read the tea leaves there, and these work groups would suffer badly in a downturn. Lock in organized labor now and fight for your proper slice!
I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list!
 
Phoenix757767
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:38 am

And one vote was because of the merger and no cards were needed.
 
NWAESC
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:54 am

Pretty much every single Delta flight attendant I know has changed their Facebook profile picture to the purple AFA selfie frame to support the campaign.


Same here, and my IG and Twitter feeds have a lot of “Selfies for solidarity” in them.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
n7371f
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:49 pm

Haha well that would be expected from someone with NWA in their user name.

NWAESC wrote:
Pretty much every single Delta flight attendant I know has changed their Facebook profile picture to the purple AFA selfie frame to support the campaign.


Same here, and my IG and Twitter feeds have a lot of “Selfies for solidarity” in them.
 
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DL747400
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:36 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
Pretty much every single Delta flight attendant I know has changed their Facebook profile picture to the purple AFA selfie frame to support the campaign.


That sounds like a great way to highlight yourself for closer scrutiny from both your coworkers and from management.
From First to Worst: The history of Airliners.net.

All posts reflect my opinions, not those of my employer or any other company.
 
jersey777
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:52 pm

DL747400 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
Pretty much every single Delta flight attendant I know has changed their Facebook profile picture to the purple AFA selfie frame to support the campaign.


That sounds like a great way to highlight yourself for closer scrutiny from both your coworkers and from management.



“scutiny”?.....you mean harassment. Lovely culture there at Delta.
 
ASFlyer
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:59 pm

DL747400 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
Pretty much every single Delta flight attendant I know has changed their Facebook profile picture to the purple AFA selfie frame to support the campaign.


That sounds like a great way to highlight yourself for closer scrutiny from both your coworkers and from management.


What kind of family is that? Sounds like harassment and interference to me.
 
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DL747400
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:12 pm

[quote="jersey777”] “scutiny”?.....you mean harassment. Lovely culture there at Delta.[/quote]

I think people are naïve if they really believe that any company wouldn’t be scrutinizing things like that on social media, especially during a union election.

Like DELTA, my company is also nonunion, but if there were ever to be the unionization campaign at some point down the road, I would fully expect my employer to be watching for things like that in order to be aware of who the pro-union employees are and what actions they might be taking while on the clock and within the workplace. I don’t think it speaks to culture as much as it speaks to common sense. Trust, but verify. That’s not a bad thing and it works both ways.
From First to Worst: The history of Airliners.net.

All posts reflect my opinions, not those of my employer or any other company.
 
Trk1
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:14 pm

Hope they win--time for workers to have more say in this nation!!!!
 
jumbojet
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:06 pm

NWAESC wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
Younger people are very pro union.


Agreed. I'm not sure why people keep saying that they're the roadblock...


facts to support that statement or is it just your biased opinion?
 
jumbojet
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:08 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
Sara Nelson spent Thanksgiving at DTW surrounded by many Delta flight attendants. You'll be surprised by how fast they will collect those cards and ask for a vote. The campaign clearly has momentum. Pretty much every single Delta flight attendant I know has changed their Facebook profile picture to the purple AFA selfie frame to support the campaign.


and DT flew to Afghanistan to serve bird to the troops for thanksgiving. Doesnt mean the majority rule. try again....
 
jumbojet
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:10 pm

NWAESC wrote:
Pretty much every single Delta flight attendant I know has changed their Facebook profile picture to the purple AFA selfie frame to support the campaign.


Same here, and my IG and Twitter feeds have a lot of “Selfies for solidarity” in them.


and I know plenty that haven't.
 
777Mech
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Re: AFA trying to unionize FAs at Delta

Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:12 pm

DL747400 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
Pretty much every single Delta flight attendant I know has changed their Facebook profile picture to the purple AFA selfie frame to support the campaign.


That sounds like a great way to highlight yourself for closer scrutiny from both your coworkers and from management.


And Delta has told inflight that they will respect their employees wishes. So which one is it?

You're basically saying DL is going after employees exercising their right for unionization? Got it.

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