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SCQ83
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Vueling drops LCG-LHR and leaves Heathrow in 2020

Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:17 am

It seems that Vueling will cancel its last remaining route at LHR in March 2020: A Coruña, a city near Santiago de Compostela. A route which has been heavily subsidised by the local government for many moons:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... arch-2020/

Vueling schedules A Coruna – London service to late-March 2020

Vueling in summer 2020 appears to be discontinuing A Coruna – London Heathrow route, as the airline filed service up to 28MAR20. This route is operated by Airbus A320 aircraft on daily basis.

VY7104 LCG1820 – 1925LHR 320 D
VY7105 LHR2025 – 2325LCG 320 D


That means Vueling effectively leaving Heathrow and concentrating in Gatwick. FLR-LTN is remaining at Luton.
 
Summa767
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Re: Vueling drops LCG-LHR and leaves Heathrow in 2020

Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:28 am

I did not realise that A Coruna was the last Vueling route at LHR.
I guess that this slot will be used by BA.

Will Vueling operate A Coruna at Gatwick instead?

A I understand Vueling was the only airline that bid for the subsidies at LCG from the local government.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Vueling drops LCG-LHR and leaves Heathrow in 2020

Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:32 am

Shame. Galicia needs better connections to the rest of Europe.
First to fly the 787-9
 
lhrsfosyd91
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Re: Vueling drops LCG-LHR and leaves Heathrow in 2020

Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:40 am

I wouldn't put any money on this actually happening. Anyone following a history of this route would know the sales open up very late. VY is probably still negotiating the size of the subsidy for the next season.
 
SeanM1997
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Re: Vueling drops LCG-LHR and leaves Heathrow in 2020

Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:55 am

Its worth noting that Vueling didn't put A Coruna - London Heathrow on sale for Summer 2019 until December 2018. They wait to see if subsidies come first. Not saying it won't be dropped but think its too early to speculate yet as the route is always a late addition
 
SCQ83
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Re: Vueling drops LCG-LHR and leaves Heathrow in 2020

Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:23 pm

zkojq wrote:
Shame. Galicia needs better connections to the rest of Europe.


That is what is SCQ for with Ryanair to STN and easyJet to LGW and legacies like Lufthansa, Swiss and TAP.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Vueling drops LCG-LHR and leaves Heathrow in 2020

Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:37 pm

SeanM1997 wrote:
Its worth noting that Vueling didn't put A Coruna - London Heathrow on sale for Summer 2019 until December 2018. They wait to see if subsidies come first. Not saying it won't be dropped but think its too early to speculate yet as the route is always a late addition


Vueling has asked for Stansted slots to start LCG and CDG:

https://www.elespanol.com/quincemil/art ... s-stansted

It will be interesting to see if VY will grow at STN. It was surprising IAG was almost absent from STN despite being Britain's 3rd/4th busiest airport.
 
ZuluTime
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Re: Vueling drops LCG-LHR and leaves Heathrow in 2020

Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:01 pm

It's been using slots on loan from Virgin for quite some years - which I know is strange for an airline owned by IAG, but that's the way it has been. Those slots are no longer available for Summer 2020 after VS' own expansion including the second LHR-Delhi for Summer 2020.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Vueling drops LCG-LHR and leaves Heathrow in 2020

Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:28 am

Summa767 wrote:
I did not realise that A Coruna was the last Vueling route at LHR.
I guess that this slot will be used by BA.

Will Vueling operate A Coruna at Gatwick instead?

A I understand Vueling was the only airline that bid for the subsidies at LCG from the local government.


It seems they will move to STN instead. Probably for Vueling is not worth wasting valuable LGW slots in a tertiary destination like LCG. The main question is whether it will remain daily or it will decrease to something like 3/4/5 weekly. OVD is a good proxy because it is now only 3 weekly on VY to LGW (also subsidised) while a couple of years ago it was more than daily to London on easyJet/Iberia Express/Vueling.

Also worth noting that LCG will become an IAG monopoly with Air Europa now under Iberia’s umbrella. The only non-IAG route will be Volotea’s BIO-LCG... which is also subsidised :)

With the completion of the high speed train to Madrid in 2021 (and MAD representing more than half of the airport’s traffic share) and the merge of Air Europa, air traffic in LCG (and VGO) will collapse.
 
8herveg
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Re: Vueling drops LCG-LHR and leaves Heathrow in 2020

Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:35 am

SCQ83 wrote:
SeanM1997 wrote:
Its worth noting that Vueling didn't put A Coruna - London Heathrow on sale for Summer 2019 until December 2018. They wait to see if subsidies come first. Not saying it won't be dropped but think its too early to speculate yet as the route is always a late addition


Vueling has asked for Stansted slots to start LCG and CDG:

https://www.elespanol.com/quincemil/art ... s-stansted

It will be interesting to see if VY will grow at STN. It was surprising IAG was almost absent from STN despite being Britain's 3rd/4th busiest airport.


I'm surprised they don't transfer it to LGW or even LTN since VY already operate from those airports. What's the point of splitting operations across 3 London airports? Even two airports would be better, surely? LTN only sees the seasonal FLR flight. What even is the point of that flight, when they serve it year round from LGW?
 
SCQ83
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Re: Vueling drops LCG-LHR and leaves Heathrow in 2020

Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:01 am

8herveg wrote:
I'm surprised they don't transfer it to LGW or even LTN since VY already operate from those airports. What's the point of splitting operations across 3 London airports? Even two airports would be better, surely? LTN only sees the seasonal FLR flight. What even is the point of that flight, when they serve it year round from LGW?


Ryanair or easyJet split across 4 London airports.

LGW is slot constrained as well.

I agree about LTN-FLR being an odd route. I wonder if they might transfer it to STN, since Ryanair cannot serve Florence due to the short runway.

STN-CDG is also an interesting choice since Ryanair does not fly that route (only easyJet). So maybe on top of LCG and CDG we will see soon some other markets with no FR competition like AMS or FLR. And routes like OVD could be as well moved to STN.
 
8herveg
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Re: Vueling drops LCG-LHR and leaves Heathrow in 2020

Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:10 am

SCQ83 wrote:
8herveg wrote:
I'm surprised they don't transfer it to LGW or even LTN since VY already operate from those airports. What's the point of splitting operations across 3 London airports? Even two airports would be better, surely? LTN only sees the seasonal FLR flight. What even is the point of that flight, when they serve it year round from LGW?


Ryanair or easyJet split across 4 London airports.

LGW is slot constrained as well.

I agree about LTN-FLR being an odd route. I wonder if they might transfer it to STN, since Ryanair cannot serve Florence due to the short runway.

STN-CDG is also an interesting choice since Ryanair does not fly that route (only easyJet). So maybe on top of LCG and CDG we will see soon some other markets with no FR competition like AMS or FLR. And routes like OVD could be as well moved to STN.


EasyJet have much bigger operations at each of the 4 London airports. So I don't think you can compare that to VY serving 7 routes from LGW, one seasonal route from LTN and then 1-2 new routes from STN. To me, that makes no sense.
 
fromheretohere9
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Re: Vueling drops LCG-LHR and leaves Heathrow in 2020

Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:55 am

This is what’s showing on the ACL website for next summer.
 
Andy33
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Re: Vueling drops LCG-LHR and leaves Heathrow in 2020

Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:58 am

8herveg wrote:

EasyJet have much bigger operations at each of the 4 London airports. So I don't think you can compare that to VY serving 7 routes from LGW, one seasonal route from LTN and then 1-2 new routes from STN. To me, that makes no sense.

Bearing in mind that Vueling have no UK based crews or planes, and no airport staff at all (they're like the other European LCCs and outsource all airport activities), perhaps using multiple airports isn't so bad as all that. It isn't as if they are going to offer connections between their flights via the UK, as nobody would use them given the actual routes operated.
 
8herveg
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Re: Vueling drops LCG-LHR and leaves Heathrow in 2020

Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:22 am

Andy33 wrote:
8herveg wrote:

EasyJet have much bigger operations at each of the 4 London airports. So I don't think you can compare that to VY serving 7 routes from LGW, one seasonal route from LTN and then 1-2 new routes from STN. To me, that makes no sense.

Bearing in mind that Vueling have no UK based crews or planes, and no airport staff at all (they're like the other European LCCs and outsource all airport activities), perhaps using multiple airports isn't so bad as all that. It isn't as if they are going to offer connections between their flights via the UK, as nobody would use them given the actual routes operated.


Ok, very true. Anyone know why they do operate the seasonal FLR-LTN route though? Does seem a bit random still, especially since they operate FLR-LGW. I know VY used to operate AMS-LTN but even that was a bit random still.
 
marcogr12
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Re: Vueling drops LCG-LHR and leaves Heathrow in 2020

Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:12 pm

Does VY fly from LTN as VY or Level? I am confused with their short-haul Level/Vueling ops
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
User001
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Re: Vueling drops LCG-LHR and leaves Heathrow in 2020

Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:22 pm

The slot report for Gatwick has been published, and Vueling have applied for LCG-LGW as well as LCG-STN.

So, clearly spreading bets, but which Airport will get the flight?
 
SCQ83
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Re: Vueling drops LCG-LHR and leaves Heathrow in 2020

Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:08 pm

8herveg wrote:
Andy33 wrote:
8herveg wrote:

EasyJet have much bigger operations at each of the 4 London airports. So I don't think you can compare that to VY serving 7 routes from LGW, one seasonal route from LTN and then 1-2 new routes from STN. To me, that makes no sense.

Bearing in mind that Vueling have no UK based crews or planes, and no airport staff at all (they're like the other European LCCs and outsource all airport activities), perhaps using multiple airports isn't so bad as all that. It isn't as if they are going to offer connections between their flights via the UK, as nobody would use them given the actual routes operated.


Ok, very true. Anyone know why they do operate the seasonal FLR-LTN route though? Does seem a bit random still, especially since they operate FLR-LGW. I know VY used to operate AMS-LTN but even that was a bit random still.


Vueling in London has always been a bit of mess. They opened a bunch of routes out of LTN that closed (except FLR). LHR had a few more destinations like BIO, BCN or FLR. The only reason I can see for LTN-FLR is that Florence is heavily restricted in terms of aircraft size so it keeps carriers like Ryanair away.

But coming forward, I could see VY splitting operations between LGW and STN. Maybe LGW could get the more urban, multiple-daily flights (like BCN), and STN some obscure destinations or airports where Ryanair does not fly from. Vueling in Paris is split between CDG and ORY (without much logic in my eyes) so the same could happen in London.

Vueling Paris:

CDG: Alicante, Barcelona, Copenhagen, Fuerteventura, Genoa, Gran Canaria, Granada, Ibiza, London–Gatwick, Madrid, Menorca, Palma de Mallorca, Porto, Prague, Rome–Fiumicino, Santiago de Compostela, Seville, Venice, Vienna

ORY: Alicante, Barcelona, Florence, Lanzarote, Lisbon, Málaga, Milan–Malpensa, Porto, Rome–Fiumicino, Tenerife–South, Valencia


Vueling London today:

LGW: Alicante, Asturias, Barcelona, Bilbao, Florence, Paris–Charles de Gaulle, Rome–Fiumicino
LHR: A Coruña
LTN: Amsterdam (Level), Florence


Maybe it could look something like:

LGW: Alicante, Barcelona, Bilbao, Florence, Málaga, Paris–Orly, Paris–Charles de Gaulle, Rome–Fiumicino, Santiago de Compostela, Valencia
STN: A Coruña, Amsterdam (Level), Asturias, Florence, Gran Canaria, Ibiza, Paris–Charles de Gaulle, Rome–Fiumicino, Seville
 
Summa767
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Re: Vueling drops LCG-LHR and leaves Heathrow in 2020

Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:20 pm

I take it that with LGW slots for the LCG flight, the STN ones will not be used..

On a side note. Interesting reading the LGW initial coordination report for S20. Not least that LATAM has obtained 14 slots out of 28 applied for. It will apparently use for SCL..
 
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Aisak
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Re: Vueling drops LCG-LHR and leaves Heathrow in 2020

Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:53 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
But coming forward, I could see VY splitting operations between LGW and STN. Maybe LGW could get the more urban, multiple-daily flights (like BCN), and STN some obscure destinations or airports where Ryanair does not fly from. Vueling in Paris is split between CDG and ORY (without much logic in my eyes) so the same could happen in London.


ORY was/is the main Paris airport used by Iberia from all over Spain. When non-MAD routes were clickairized, ORY was still the PAR airport served. But on the other hand Vueling had a base in CDG.
This might be the reason. Why they haven't tried to consolidate, that I don't know

Same with LHR routes. They were formerly IB routes that were clickairized. Over time, routes were dropped or moved to cheaper LON airports.
I read some news that the locals were concerned about losing the LHR links as many medium and longhaul destinations offered with the LHR connection would be no longer possible.
Since Vueling does not have an extensive portfolio of interline agreements, I would love to see how many passengers are really impacted by this "lost of connectivity"

Andy33 wrote:
8herveg wrote:

EasyJet have much bigger operations at each of the 4 London airports. So I don't think you can compare that to VY serving 7 routes from LGW, one seasonal route from LTN and then 1-2 new routes from STN. To me, that makes no sense.

Bearing in mind that Vueling have no UK based crews or planes, and no airport staff at all (they're like the other European LCCs and outsource all airport activities), perhaps using multiple airports isn't so bad as all that. It isn't as if they are going to offer connections between their flights via the UK, as nobody would use them given the actual routes operated.


That's it. LTN, LGW and LHR are just destinations. They are just miles apart but operationally they can be treated as if they were in different continents as it's just a quick in and out and serviced via a contracted partner.

Curious note. Yes, Vueling, like many other airlines has its ground handling outsourced to third parties. But they are studying starting their own handling ops. They will start trialing medium sized airports but their aim is to bring BCN handling in house to avoid the problems caused by last summer strikes suffered from their current handler (Iberia Airport Services)

Also, not all LCC desperately outsource everything. Ryanair recently terminated its Ground Handling contract with Lesma Handling and workers were TUPE'd to a new wholly owned Ryanair subsidiary called AZUL Handling.

So it seems something is changing in the sector lately...
 
SCQ83
Topic Author
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Re: Vueling drops LCG-LHR and leaves Heathrow in 2020

Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:56 pm

Aisak wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
But coming forward, I could see VY splitting operations between LGW and STN. Maybe LGW could get the more urban, multiple-daily flights (like BCN), and STN some obscure destinations or airports where Ryanair does not fly from. Vueling in Paris is split between CDG and ORY (without much logic in my eyes) so the same could happen in London.


ORY was/is the main Paris airport used by Iberia from all over Spain. When non-MAD routes were clickairized, ORY was still the PAR airport served. But on the other hand Vueling had a base in CDG.
This might be the reason. Why they haven't tried to consolidate, that I don't know


Vueling still has a CDG base AFAIK.

Paris and London are not comparable. ORY/CDG are largely equivalent (even if Orly is slight more "urban"), while in London there is a clear stratification in preferred airports: 1: LCY/LHR, 2. LGW, 3. LTN/STN/SEN.
 
Summa767
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Re: Vueling drops LCG-LHR and leaves Heathrow in 2020

Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:16 am

According to the newly released ACL initial report for S20 at LHR, Vueling maintains 14 slots, so enough to keep its LCG flight going.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Vueling drops LCG-LHR and leaves Heathrow in 2020

Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:18 pm

Summa767 wrote:
According to the newly released ACL initial report for S20 at LHR, Vueling maintains 14 slots, so enough to keep its LCG flight going.


It looks like indeed the city of A Coruña will keep paying Vueling for that Heathrow flight. Probably their status symbol when everybody else is set up in SCQ.

On the other hand, the flight is moving from a prime evening slot to a midday time-frame which certainly is way worse specially for local VFR in London.

Current schedule:

LCG-LHR 6:20 PM 7:25 PM
LHR-LCG 8:25 PM 11:25 PM

New schedule:

LCG-LHR 11:45 AM 12:45 PM
LHR-LCG 1:45 PM 4:45 PM

I have a strong suspicion that the new 6-weekly LGW-VLC is a slot-sitter for LCG for whenever is moved to LGW. The schedule is quite similar to the current LCG-LHR times. I reckon the new schedule will work much worse for Vueling and it will the excuse to move it to a better time (read LGW-VLC times) at LGW by next season.

VY8472 VLC1840 – 2010LGW 320 246
VY8472 VLC1910 – 2040LGW 320 357

VY8473 LGW2110 – 0035+1VLC 320 246
VY8473 LGW2140 – 0105+1VLC 320 357
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Vueling drops LCG-LHR and leaves Heathrow in 2020

Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:40 pm

I guess it could be a slot sitter, but why do you think VY wouldn’t make LON-VLC work. Seems like a sensible route to me?
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 2663
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Re: Vueling drops LCG-LHR and leaves Heathrow in 2020

Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:29 pm

I guess it could be a slot sitter, but why do you think VY wouldn’t make LON-VLC work. Seems like a sensible route to me?

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