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rbavfan
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Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:46 am

The Concorde crash was in Gonesse, France. The Tu-144 crash at the Paris air show was in Goussainville, Val-d'Oise, France. After all these years I had never noticed they were only about 5.12km/3.18miles apart. Kind of an odd coincidence that the first and last Passenger SST's crashes so close together. Just wish both had not had passengers on board.
 
ubeema
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:25 am

Le Bourget is the municipality that hosts Paris Air shadow, and the airport bears the same name as the city. That’s where TU144 took off. It is located southeast from CDG roughly 3 miles from CDG boundaries.

Concorde AF4590 took off from CDG and as you know was already in trouble during takeoff roll. Pilots briefly told the tower they would try to land at Le Bourget but lost control within seconds and crashed in Gonesse. Both crashes killed people on the ground
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:33 am

Nothing all that coincidental, when you consider that one was performing for the Paris Air Show (departing Le Bourget airport) and the other was attempting to make an emergency landing at Le Bourget airport.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Virtual737
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:49 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Nothing all that coincidental, when you consider that one was performing for the Paris Air Show (departing Le Bourget airport) and the other was attempting to make an emergency landing at Le Bourget airport.


...which is pretty coincidental.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:32 am

Virtual737 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Nothing all that coincidental, when you consider that one was performing for the Paris Air Show (departing Le Bourget airport) and the other was attempting to make an emergency landing at Le Bourget airport.


...which is pretty coincidental.

Especially considering neither SST ever provided scheduled service to Le Bourget...
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Arion640
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:43 am

Virtual737 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Nothing all that coincidental, when you consider that one was performing for the Paris Air Show (departing Le Bourget airport) and the other was attempting to make an emergency landing at Le Bourget airport.


...which is pretty coincidental.


I agree, very coincidental
 
flilot
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:24 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Nothing all that coincidental...

Not sure you quite grasp coincidences.
 
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Lemieux
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:33 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Nothing all that coincidental, when you consider that one was performing for the Paris Air Show (departing Le Bourget airport) and the other was attempting to make an emergency landing at Le Bourget airport.

As everyone else has already said, and I usually agree with you on everything, yeah man that's not just ordinary
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LAX772LR
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Sun Nov 03, 2019 12:02 pm

flilot wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Nothing all that coincidental...

Not sure you quite grasp coincidences.

Well, you got the first two words right anyway.



flyPIT wrote:
Especially considering neither SST ever provided scheduled service to Le Bourget...
Lemieux wrote:
yeah man that's not just ordinary

...but it WAS the only place that you'd repetitively see the two of them together, or see TU144 outside of the Soviet Union at all.
Disagree if you wish, but THAT'S the part that more or less nullifies the "coincidence" for me.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Sun Nov 03, 2019 12:20 pm

Didn't F-BTSC land at Le Bourget in "The Concorde - Airport '79"? At the start of that whole landing sequence, Patroni clearly says, "Le Bourget's dead ahead, Paul..." even though their stated destination was CDG originally.

Freaky coincidence.
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Arion640
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:07 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
flilot wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Nothing all that coincidental...

Not sure you quite grasp coincidences.

Well, you got the first two words right anyway.



flyPIT wrote:
Especially considering neither SST ever provided scheduled service to Le Bourget...
Lemieux wrote:
yeah man that's not just ordinary

...but it WAS the only place that you'd repetitively see the two of them together, or see TU144 outside of the Soviet Union at all.
Disagree if you wish, but THAT'S the part that more or less nullifies the "coincidence" for me.


Wrong. If you go to Sinsheim you can see two together repetitively.
 
Arion640
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:08 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
Didn't F-BTSC land at Le Bourget in "The Concorde - Airport '79"? At the start of that whole landing sequence, Patroni clearly says, "Le Bourget's dead ahead, Paul..." even though their stated destination was CDG originally.

Freaky coincidence.


If they’d rostered anything but F-BTSC for AF4590, there would never of been an accident.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:38 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Nothing all that coincidental, when you consider that one was performing for the Paris Air Show (departing Le Bourget airport) and the other was attempting to make an emergency landing at Le Bourget airport.


It is a coincidence when you consider that the Tu-144 would have had a higher chance of crashing in the USSR than Le Bourget. Also, Le Bourget isn't Concorde's home airport.
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rbavfan
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:20 pm

ubeema wrote:
Le Bourget is the municipality that hosts Paris Air shadow, and the airport bears the same name as the city. That’s where TU144 took off. It is located southeast from CDG roughly 3 miles from CDG boundaries.

Concorde AF4590 took off from CDG and as you know was already in trouble during takeoff roll. Pilots briefly told the tower they would try to land at Le Bourget but lost control within seconds and crashed in Gonesse. Both crashes killed people on the ground


Yes I noted where they crashed, not which of the 2 airports they left from.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:28 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Nothing all that coincidental, when you consider that one was performing for the Paris Air Show (departing Le Bourget airport) and the other was attempting to make an emergency landing at Le Bourget airport.


Disagree as it was coincidental that they both crashed so close to each other. Also both the Concorde & the Tu144 performed at the Paris Air Show that day. And the Tu144 pilot was noted saying the Concorde prototype flight was boring & he could do better. That extra stress could have been part of what caused the crash. Showman one-upmanship. We will never know for sure.
 
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mach144
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:28 pm

Beside the site of the crash, they share something else - exact cause of the accident somehow remains a mystery...
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Sun Nov 03, 2019 3:55 pm

Is there a memorial at the site of the Tupolev crash ?
 
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mach144
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:07 pm

JannEejit wrote: Is there a memorial at the site of the Tupolev crash ?

Photos from the site...
https://www.aerosteles.net/steleen-goussainville-tu144
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:17 pm

mach144 wrote:
JannEejit wrote: Is there a memorial at the site of the Tupolev crash ?

Photos from the site...
https://www.aerosteles.net/steleen-goussainville-tu144


Thanks, I'd like to go and see that some time.
 
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mach144
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:39 pm

Monument to the crew of the Tu-144 CCCP - 77102 at Novodevichy Cemetery in Moscow:

http://sm.evg-rumjantsev.ru/cosmonauts/ ... rave2.html
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:40 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Wrong. If you go to Sinsheim you can see two together repetitively.

Oh man, you're funny. :roll:


TheFlyingDisk wrote:
It is a coincidence when you consider that the Tu-144 would have had a higher chance of crashing in the USSR than Le Bourget.

Yeah, that's a fair point. Was more focused on the French end, but will cede to that one.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
A380MSN004
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:42 pm

The TU144 exploded on flight ?
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:49 pm

mach144 wrote:
Beside the site of the crash, they share something else - exact cause of the accident somehow remains a mystery...

There's no such thing as an "exact cause" of a modern plane crash.

It's always a combination of factors, usually wrapped up and swaddled in blankets of human error; and for that, they usually parse out how much of it was contributory negligence. But remove any of the key parts, and the ship would've likely still been flying.



A380MSN004 wrote:
The TU144 exploded on flight ?

No, it over-stressed during a maneuver, broke apart midair, and the separate pieces crashed down.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
ACDC8
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:57 pm

I think it's more of a conincidence that the Concorde that crashed was the one they used for Airport 79.
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gadFly
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:46 pm

Coincidences are just that; there' nothing to it, really.

Curiosity is something else: For example, the fact the Le Bourget was indeed never a departure point, yet houses two Concordes in its museum , parts of a third (F-BVFD, wfu following a bad landing at Dakar) in its museum storage area and the remains of the crashed F-BTSC, under judicial seal.
 
gadFly
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:50 pm

ACDC8 wrote:
I think it's more of a conincidence that the Concorde that crashed was the one they used for Airport 79.


F-BTSC, used in Airport 79, was the last one available that AF needed following the incident at Dulles. To replace the damaged aircraft (F-BVFC) while it was repaired, it borrowed F-BTSC. Later it purchased it for one symbolic franc (part of the Franco-British deal to officially end Concorde production)
 
BravoOne
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:22 pm

I was at the Farborough Airshow the day the Concorde crashed. The atmosphere was was extremely sad for all in attendance that day and later on into the evening back at the hotel.
 
Arion640
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:47 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Wrong. If you go to Sinsheim you can see two together repetitively.

Oh man, you're funny. :roll:



Still qualifies.
 
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:03 am

Arion640 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Didn't F-BTSC land at Le Bourget in "The Concorde - Airport '79"? At the start of that whole landing sequence, Patroni clearly says, "Le Bourget's dead ahead, Paul..." even though their stated destination was CDG originally.

Freaky coincidence.


If they’d rostered anything but F-BTSC for AF4590, there would never of been an accident.


This is something new for me. What would make the difference? Lower wight of the other airframes?
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26point2
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:02 am

rbavfan wrote:
The Concorde crash was in Gonesse, France. The Tu-144 crash at the Paris air show was in Goussainville, Val-d'Oise, France. .


Interesting topic and observation...I've never thought of the close proximity but you are right. If we're keeping score, however, here have been 2 Tu-144 fatal accidents not just the LFPB crash.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:38 am

WildcatYXU wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Didn't F-BTSC land at Le Bourget in "The Concorde - Airport '79"? At the start of that whole landing sequence, Patroni clearly says, "Le Bourget's dead ahead, Paul..." even though their stated destination was CDG originally.

Freaky coincidence.

If they’d rostered anything but F-BTSC for AF4590, there would never of been an accident.

This is something new for me. What would make the difference? Lower wight of the other airframes?

Lower weight, thus faster acceleration even taking tailwind into effect. No missing spacer, thus tire likely not previously worn or as susceptible to blowout. Etc.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
DALMD80
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:17 pm

Arion640 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Didn't F-BTSC land at Le Bourget in "The Concorde - Airport '79"? At the start of that whole landing sequence, Patroni clearly says, "Le Bourget's dead ahead, Paul..." even though their stated destination was CDG originally.

Freaky coincidence.


If they’d rostered anything but F-BTSC for AF4590, there would never of been an accident.

What makes you say that?
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Arion640
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:29 pm

DALMD80 wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Didn't F-BTSC land at Le Bourget in "The Concorde - Airport '79"? At the start of that whole landing sequence, Patroni clearly says, "Le Bourget's dead ahead, Paul..." even though their stated destination was CDG originally.

Freaky coincidence.


If they’d rostered anything but F-BTSC for AF4590, there would never of been an accident.

What makes you say that?


LAX covers off the points in the post above.
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: Concorde & TU144 Paris crash locations.

Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:45 pm

These two unique airliners will forever be paired and shows how engineering challenges may be overcome with national perseverance, pride, and economic resources.

Let the memories of those who pioneered and perished live on.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!

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