Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 7
 
himarhernandez
Posts: 78
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:03 pm

Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:23 pm

SelseyBill wrote:
LupineChemist wrote:
I've long said the 787 makes a lot of sense at IB especially for longer thin routes where they're using the 332 right now.


........or they may just shift the 787's to BA/LHR and keep Spain all-Airbus. Who knows?



That was my thought as well, that they would trade BA's A350s for UX787s. Being originally from the Canaries, I am worried about competition indeed (although I was never able to connect them with my USA flights and always ended up going with IB).
 
Cunard
Posts: 2512
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:23 pm

charliecossie wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:
Competition authorities will approve this, don't worry.
Personally, if I were IAG and had a billion to waste, I wouldn't have wasted it on Air Europa but Thomas Cook.
Having an in-house sales network across Europe would have made far more sense and would have made BA and its partners so much stronger.

What do they get with Air Europa? Less competition for sure, but someone will happily fill the gap. There still is a vast amount of competition, from Tap to Latam.
It's a waste of a billion IMHO.


BA already has an in-house sales network across Europe.


And not just an in-house sales network across Europe but across the world :-)

With British Airways Holidays and BA.com, why would IAG been interested in buying Thomas Cook.

IAG or British Airways for that matter didn't need to purchase Thomas Cook.

If you were IAG and you had billions to ''waste'' ......you would have made the wrong decision and clearly wasted those billions you had to waste :-)
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
Detroit313
Posts: 538
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:24 pm

Great news for IAG, One World and American Airlines.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 10510
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:27 pm

himarhernandez wrote:
SelseyBill wrote:
LupineChemist wrote:
I've long said the 787 makes a lot of sense at IB especially for longer thin routes where they're using the 332 right now.


........or they may just shift the 787's to BA/LHR and keep Spain all-Airbus. Who knows?



That was my thought as well, that they would trade BA's A350s for UX787s. Being originally from the Canaries, I am worried about competition indeed (although I was never able to connect them with my USA flights and always ended up going with IB).

Why would BA (and IB for that matter) want to swap A350-1000s for 787-8/9s? They are not even similar in size.
 
User avatar
oxonrow
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:04 am

Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:37 pm

As consumers we need to regulators to do their job -- as if the crazy growth of predatory JVs wasn't enough after already strong push towards concentration. Why don't we get rid of competition entirely, it will be so much more efficient... and the environment will benefit too. Crazy times.
 
spud757
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:20 pm

Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:45 pm

cityshuttle wrote:
I really wish that the brand would stay - maybe even used for Vueling / Level at a later stage.


Agree. Level and Vueling aren’t strong brands, IMO. A bit non distinct. At least ‘Air Europa’ has some brand longevity since the 1980s - I recall the days of Air Europe and Air Europa under the same branding style during the International Leisure Group daus - so surely there’s some value in keeping the brand? Maybe long haul ops of Level and short haul ops of IB express, Vueling will rebranded as Air Europa across the non-MAD focus network in Spain (BCN, PMI, TFN) and the rest of Europe, leaving IB brand for mainline services in/out of MAD hub.

Really don’t get Level or Vueling brand, but that’s from U.K perspective. Air Europa, on the other hand, makes perfect sense as the name for a pan-European airline.
 
Antarius
Posts: 2136
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:09 pm

pabloeing wrote:
....I see the B777X in IB before of the B787........


Why? IB already has the a350 as the longhaul high capacity future aircraft.

The 787 actually compliments their fleet well, slotting in between the a350 and the a332, allowing them to expand into smaller markets like UX has.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
User avatar
Aisak
Posts: 925
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:56 pm

Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:20 pm

spud757 wrote:
Really don’t get Level or Vueling brand, but that’s from U.K perspective. Air Europa, on the other hand, makes perfect sense as the name for a pan-European airline.


Quick catch-up:
1) Clickair (code XG) was created to move everything Iberia operated which didn't touch MAD. All transfered IB flights onto the XG code also wear an IB5xxx as a mere codeshare which of course was and is still not considered part of oneworld. Vueling (code VY) was a competitor.
Vueling and clickair agreed to merge and the surviving entity was Vueling. As IB owned 40~45% of the new Vueling they had some control over it, and the IB5xxx was kept onto VY flights as well as IB Plus as a FF partner along with Vueling's own FF scheme called punto.

2) IB/IAG feared Norwegian could do in BCN the same they did at LGW, IAG launched the LEVEL brand operated by IB. These flights fall outside the "regular" operation of Iberia, and are not part of oneworld.

3) Vueling started to grow outside Spain, but the pilots' labour agreement dictates that EVERY plane painted in Vueling colours and using the VY code under the AOC of Vueling SA (a spanish company) had to be flown by pilots employed by Vueling SA. Over time, the operation to use Spanish pilots at AMS,FCO,PAR.... bases became more "challenging".

4) And IAG adquires a Vienna-based company with an Austrian AOC (Anisec) and begins flying as LEVEL. Openskies (France, base ORY, code EC) starts using the LEVEL brand swapping the 757 and 767 fleet by an harmonized (with BCN) Airbus 330-200 fleet. Level BCN is still a department within IB, just like AirEuropa will be at the earliest stages...

Having said that.... Yes. I totally agree that the Air Europa brand will be better for the european flights replacing Level. About Vueling I dont's know. While both Air Europa and Vueling brands are strong in Spain, Vueling has invested a LOT in Italy. They even have their own branded Credit Card. But who knows...
 
wingnutmn
Posts: 523
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 10:27 am

Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:31 pm

Could this also be seen that BA needs, or wants, a better SA partner than AA? Will BA send connections through Spain now instead of MIA?

Wingnut
Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!
 
onwFan
Posts: 432
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:33 pm

Polot wrote:
SQ789 wrote:
Will AA partner with UX after UX leaves ST?

PR says UX will be integrated in IAG’s joint ventures, so yes AA will partner with UX as part of the TATL JV they have with IAG.

But UX is of minimal use to AA-they don’t do anything for AA that IB doesn’t do better. This is all about strengthening IB (and hurting LATAM some by eliminating a feed source from MAD).

This deal would give IB sufficient breadth at MAD to increase some of their non-daily routes to the US and possibly add some missing ones like IAD; not to mention some leisure destinations like MCO. So not entirely useless for AA.
 
Andy33
Posts: 2563
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:38 pm

bx737 wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Absolute madness. The competition authorities shouldn't allow the EU3 to become so much bigger through large takeovers like this. And even if they were to, having so much market consolidation at a single hub is madness - at least arrange it in a situation where a EU3 member is taking over an airline in a market that it isn't dominant in (eg LH Group taking over Air Europa, AFKL taking over Norwegian or Wizz and IAG taking over Condor).


vhtje wrote:

Hardly. Ever heard of EasyJet and Ryanair?


Neither of them flies domestically within Spain. Nor does Wizz. Looking at Easyjet's website, if I want to fly MAD to BCN I have to connect overnight via GVA.


This website aggregates Spanish aeronautical statistics. On passenger numbers, Ryanair and easyJet easily dominate.

http://www.aena.es/csee/Satellite?c=Pag ... tadisticas

...but none of them fly domestically within the Iberian peninsula, making that argument irrelevant. The fact is that if you want to fly better MAD and BCN you can choose either Iberia, Vueling or Air Europa. After a merger, IAG will have a monopoly on that market.




A quick look at the Ryanair website shows that they have 9 domestic routes from Madrid, 11 from Barcelona, 10 from Palma among others, granted they currently don’t fly MAD-BCN, but Ryanair does fly domestically within the Iberian peninsula


And the number of flights offered MAD-BCN by all airlines combined fell dramatically when the high-speed rail line was opened. This takes less than 3 hours, and now has 63% of the passenger market between the two cities (excluding people who go by private car). If competition authorities look at the total travel market rather than one only one mode, a reduction of competition in the flight market will have no effect on the majority of people travelling the route, especially since a sizeable proportion of the passengers remaining to air are connecting to/from other flights, so fares will be calculated on a through basis and depend on competition on the entire journey not just the MAD-BCN segment.
 
onwFan
Posts: 432
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:47 pm

    wingnutmn wrote:
    Could this also be seen that BA needs, or wants, a better SA partner than AA? Will BA send connections through Spain now instead of MIA?

    Wingnut

    What are you talking about? When was BA relying on MIA as their primary gateway into South America? Before they merged with IB?
     
    User avatar
    JerseyFlyer
    Posts: 1513
    Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 7:24 pm

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:52 pm

    The investor slideset groups Air Europa along with Aer Lingus and Iberia Express as a "value" airline. BA and IB are "full service", Vueling and Level are "low cost".

    On that basis I would not expect any merging of Air Europa with Vueling or Level, although airframes could be swapped around.

    https://www.iairgroup.com/~/media/Files ... tation.pdf
     
    himarhernandez
    Posts: 78
    Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:03 pm

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:55 pm

    According to them, part of their reasoning is that their market share in Madrid (even with Air Europa) is 39%

    https://grupo.iberia.es/news/04112019/i ... a?ref=Home
     
    User avatar
    chepos
    Posts: 7274
    Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

    IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:03 pm

    wingnutmn wrote:
    Could this also be seen that BA needs, or wants, a better SA partner than AA? Will BA send connections through Spain now instead of MIA?

    Wingnut


    I am pretty certain the AA/IAG JV’s main objective is not connections to South America via MIA. As you may or may not know, IB already has an extensive network to Latin America out of MAD. Why would IAG route passengers via MIA when it can route them via MAD? I am sure some connections get routed via MIA but not the bulk of EU-South America traffic. This is about IAG removing a competitor and solidifying the MAD hub.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Fly the Flag!!!!
     
    User avatar
    readytotaxi
    Posts: 7320
    Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:09 am

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:12 pm

    JerseyFlyer wrote:
    The investor slideset groups Air Europa along with Aer Lingus and Iberia Express as a "value" airline. BA and IB are "full service", Vueling and Level are "low cost".

    On that basis I would not expect any merging of Air Europa with Vueling or Level, although airframes could be swapped around.

    https://www.iairgroup.com/~/media/Files ... tation.pdf

    I feel that BA stopped being a Full Service airline some time ago, but thats just my opinion.
    you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
    Growing older, but not up.
     
    User avatar
    Aisak
    Posts: 925
    Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:56 pm

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:19 pm

    himarhernandez wrote:
    SelseyBill wrote:
    LupineChemist wrote:
    I've long said the 787 makes a lot of sense at IB especially for longer thin routes where they're using the 332 right now.


    ........or they may just shift the 787's to BA/LHR and keep Spain all-Airbus. Who knows?



    That was my thought as well, that they would trade BA's A350s for UX787s. Being originally from the Canaries, I am worried about competition indeed (although I was never able to connect them with my USA flights and always ended up going with IB).


    Regarding fleet, IAG has been quite clear in the past. Fleet is widely exchangeable among OpCos. The 320 Series is highly harmonized to allow swaps in less than a week. Some 350 originally meant for Aer Lingus are ending in Iberia... Fleet will be where it makes sense.

    About the second point you said, I bet people at the Ministry even more worried than regular customers. Given the Spanish State pays 75% of domestic flights, for Islands (and Ceuta/Melilla) residents, they might fear fares going up. I read this morning that the combined operation right now accounts for 73% of domestic traffic. I'm sure the combined operation will drop some frequencies from next summer season on, but right now.... (and still counting Norwegian and Ryanair)
     
    User avatar
    enilria
    Posts: 10182
    Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:19 pm

    This seems hideously anti-competitive. It's not as if Europe is brimming with independent long haul airlines. This should not be approved.
     
    User avatar
    oxonrow
    Posts: 54
    Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:04 am

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:26 pm

    ...

    https://www.iairgroup.com/~/media/Files ... tation.pdf[/quote]
    I feel that BA stopped being a Full Service airline some time ago, but thats just my opinion.[/quote]

    That's not just YOUR opinion. In fact that's not even an opinion. That's a fact ;)
     
    dcajet
    Posts: 4647
    Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:35 pm

    Detroit313 wrote:
    Great news for IAG, One World and American Airlines.


    American Airlines? How so?
    Keep calm and wash your hands.
     
    Detroit313
    Posts: 538
    Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:59 pm

    dcajet wrote:
    Detroit313 wrote:
    Great news for IAG, One World and American Airlines.


    American Airlines? How so?


    What do you mean how so?

    Madrid is a very important connecting hub for American Airlines. An even larger market share for Iberia - Air Europa and the addition of Air Europa in the transatlantic JV will of course help make Madrid an even bigger hub for connections for AA. Air Europa flies all over Europe and to NY too from Madrid. How would that not help AA?

    Not to mention the benefits in Barcelona too which is a focus city for Air Europa too along with the large presence of Iberia, Level and Vueling.
    Last edited by Detroit313 on Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:11 pm, edited 4 times in total.
     
    talonone
    Posts: 56
    Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 10:32 am

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:01 pm

    vhtje wrote:
    seahawk wrote:
    Hmm, if that goes ahead one will hardly be able to stop LH from getting Condor. IAG would gain total dominance in Spain.


    Hardly. Ever heard of EasyJet and Ryanair?

    Easy closed the base in MAD years ago. On the long-haul market FR does not exist!
    We are so fuc*t up în MAD!
    The space and human stupidity are endless. Maybe the space is not... but the human stupidity for sure!
     
    Prost
    Posts: 2571
    Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:23 pm

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:03 pm

    SkyTeam slowly seems to be dismantling, either by internal forces or external forces. I’m going to be interested to see how things play out during the next economic downturn, the carriers have either fortified themselves, or over extended. We’ll find out who has the best strategy.
     
    Thibault973
    Posts: 322
    Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:11 am

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:11 pm

    So what does this mean for UX planned foray into the Brazilian domestic market ?
     
    VSMUT
    Posts: 4215
    Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:31 pm

    JerseyFlyer wrote:
    The investor slideset groups Air Europa along with Aer Lingus and Iberia Express as a "value" airline. BA and IB are "full service", Vueling and Level are "low cost".


    Chuck Norris once flew British Airways Eurotraveller and received service!

    Seriously, what do they mean by that? Disregarding business class, what sets the value, full service and low cost airlines apart at IAG? They all run hard core low cost service! They even dabble with low-cost methods in long-haul business class on their "full service" products, like paying for seat selection!
     
    ltbewr
    Posts: 15106
    Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:54 pm

    The first time and only time I will be on Air Europa (OPO-MAD on 5/11) or actually a sub of it, this business bombshell drops. Will Air Europa's subs be a part of this deal ?
     
    dcajet
    Posts: 4647
    Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:56 pm

    Detroit313 wrote:
    dcajet wrote:
    Detroit313 wrote:
    Great news for IAG, One World and American Airlines.


    American Airlines? How so?


    What do you mean how so?

    Madrid is a very important connecting hub for American Airlines. An even larger market share for Iberia - Air Europa and the addition of Air Europa in the transatlantic JV will of course help make Madrid an even bigger hub for connections for AA. Air Europa flies all over Europe and to NY too from Madrid. How would that not help AA?

    Not to mention the benefits in Barcelona too which is a focus city for Air Europa too along with the large presence of Iberia, Level and Vueling.


    I am not denying any benefits for AA, but any benefits for AA are purely collateral. IAG is not buying UX thinking of the North Atlantic market. This is about dominance to Latin America and consolidating Madrid in that light. As to BCN, Iberia only has flights to Madrid, the big player there is Vueling.
    Keep calm and wash your hands.
     
    SCQ83
    Posts: 5676
    Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:08 pm

    bx737 wrote:
    zkojq wrote:
    Absolute madness. The competition authorities shouldn't allow the EU3 to become so much bigger through large takeovers like this. And even if they were to, having so much market consolidation at a single hub is madness - at least arrange it in a situation where a EU3 member is taking over an airline in a market that it isn't dominant in (eg LH Group taking over Air Europa, AFKL taking over Norwegian or Wizz and IAG taking over Condor).

    vhtje wrote:

    Hardly. Ever heard of EasyJet and Ryanair?


    Neither of them flies domestically within Spain. Nor does Wizz. Looking at Easyjet's website, if I want to fly MAD to BCN I have to connect overnight via GVA.


    A quick look at the Ryanair website shows that they have 9 domestic routes from Madrid, 11 from Barcelona, 10 from Palma among others, granted they currently don’t fly MAD-BCN, but Ryanair does fly domestically within the Iberian peninsula


    I don't see domestic ex-MAD being an issue. Those are Air Europa's routes from MAD:

    ACE: competing with Iberia and Ryanair
    AGP: competing with Iberia
    ALC: competing with Iberia
    BCN: competing with Iberia / Vueling
    BIO: competing with Iberia
    FUE: competing with Iberia and Ryanair
    LCG: competing with Iberia
    LPA: competing with Iberia and Ryanair
    OVD: competing with Iberia
    SVQ: competing with Iberia
    TFN: competing with Iberia and Ryanair
    VGO: competing with Iberia
    VLC: competing with Iberia

    AGP, ALC, BCN, SVQ and VLC have already high-speed train and entirely focused on connections. MAD-BCN being an IAG monopoly poses no issue b/c the high-speed train is its real competition (UX is only 2/3 daily focused on connections). BIO, LCG, OVD and VGO are getting high-speed train soon. With the "flight shame" stuff in Europe, this comes quite handy as those routes have an ecological alternative (aka train), so UX quitting the market means less planes.

    Islands is a different story, with Norwegian quitting and Ryanair reducing frequencies to the Canaries. Maybe Binter could get into MAD-Canarias as they have started serving some markets.
     
    GibbonUK
    Posts: 15
    Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:06 pm

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:12 pm

    According to the IAG article, IAG expect a return on £1billion investment within 4 years from a business that has, to date, been generating 100million euro profit a year.

    I'm no business man, but does this mean IAG will be following their usual trend of adding rows of seats to their new acquisition?
     
    onwFan
    Posts: 432
    Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:16 pm

    Prost wrote:
    SkyTeam slowly seems to be dismantling, either by internal forces or external forces. I’m going to be interested to see how things play out during the next economic downturn, the carriers have either fortified themselves, or over extended. We’ll find out who has the best strategy.

    I hardly think there is anything to dismantle, at least between UX and SkyTeam. If anything, they were 'just another member', along the likes of AR, ME, SV, MF, TO, OK, KQ, CI, VA and GA. They were hardly appreciated as a member and never stood a chance. DL for one will be glad that they will be able to send more of their passengers via CDG and AMS. AM and AR are probably the only carriers that helped UX; and most probably IAG is going to partner with AR after being ditched by DL.
     
    SCQ83
    Posts: 5676
    Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:16 pm

    Andy33 wrote:
    And the number of flights offered MAD-BCN by all airlines combined fell dramatically when the high-speed rail line was opened. This takes less than 3 hours, and now has 63% of the passenger market between the two cities (excluding people who go by private car). If competition authorities look at the total travel market rather than one only one mode, a reduction of competition in the flight market will have no effect on the majority of people travelling the route, especially since a sizeable proportion of the passengers remaining to air are connecting to/from other flights, so fares will be calculated on a through basis and depend on competition on the entire journey not just the MAD-BCN segment.


    No doubt the timing comes quite handy. The high-speed train from Madrid to Asturias (OVD) will be completed by 2020, to Galicia (LCG/SCQ/VGO) by 2021 and Euskadi (BIO) slightly later. I was skeptical UX could survive the double completion of IB+AVE in small airports like LCG/VGO/OVD, so this comes perfectly in time. IAG will kill UX in those routes with the approval of the government by decreasing "polluting" sources of transportation (planes) and moving more people towards the train.

    It also interesting that LCG, OVD and VGO will become virtual IAG monopolies (with Volotea also in LCG/OVD).
     
    oschkosch
    Posts: 584
    Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:41 pm

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:20 pm

    Revelation wrote:
    It's obvious now why WW was complimenting DL on its investment in LATAM: it gives him some implicit justification for grabbing Air Europa.

    Sacrificing a pawn to move the bishop in for the attack, so it seems.



    Excellent way to describe it! :checkmark:
    :stirthepot: :airplane: "This airplane is designed by clowns, who in turn are supervised by monkeys" :airplane: :stirthepot:
     
    User avatar
    Revelation
    Posts: 23910
    Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:39 pm

    JerseyFlyer wrote:
    The investor slideset groups Air Europa along with Aer Lingus and Iberia Express as a "value" airline. BA and IB are "full service", Vueling and Level are "low cost".

    On that basis I would not expect any merging of Air Europa with Vueling or Level, although airframes could be swapped around.

    https://www.iairgroup.com/~/media/Files ... tation.pdf

    Maybe it should be rendered as BA and IB are "full price gouging", Air Europa along with Aer Lingus and Iberia Express as a "moderate price gouging" airline and Vueling and Level are "least price gouging".
    Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
    The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
    Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
    The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
     
    aerokiwi
    Posts: 2788
    Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:05 pm

    readytotaxi wrote:
    JerseyFlyer wrote:
    The investor slideset groups Air Europa along with Aer Lingus and Iberia Express as a "value" airline. BA and IB are "full service", Vueling and Level are "low cost".

    On that basis I would not expect any merging of Air Europa with Vueling or Level, although airframes could be swapped around.

    https://www.iairgroup.com/~/media/Files ... tation.pdf

    I feel that BA stopped being a Full Service airline some time ago, but thats just my opinion.


    Agreed. And IB offers less service than most LCCs. Atrocious airline. Taking over Air Europa doesn't benefit passengers one bit. How competition authorities allow this is beyond me.
     
    peterinlisbon
    Posts: 1773
    Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:37 am

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:07 pm

    Air Madrid - gone
    Spanair - gone
    Air Comet - gone
    Air Europa - sold to Iberia

    What a shame, I guess that will mean that fares to South America will be going up, although there is still competition on the other end.
     
    SCQ83
    Posts: 5676
    Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:13 pm

    peterinlisbon wrote:
    Air Madrid - gone
    Spanair - gone
    Air Comet - gone
    Air Europa - sold to Iberia

    What a shame, I guess that will mean that fares to South America will be going up, although there is still competition on the other end.


    IAG should take over TAP as well. This would allow them to have an even stronger footprint in Europe-LatAm and strength Brazil where IAG is quite weak. TAP setting a "ponte aerea" between Portugal and MAD is suspicious at least. They could become rid of OPO as a hub (which makes no sense whatsoever) and LIS could become another BCN; a medium-sized airport with a strong tourism component.
     
    peterinlisbon
    Posts: 1773
    Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:37 am

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:13 pm

    Biggest airlines from Madrid (MAD)

    Based on number of scheduled departures next month
    Iberia 5122 flights scheduled next month
    Air Europa 2512 flights scheduled next month
    Iberia Express 1473 flights scheduled next month

    Here's Air Europa's routemap:
    https://www.flightsfrom.com/UX
     
    SCQ83
    Posts: 5676
    Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:18 pm

    Btw it is interesting last week Air France announced Madrid-Orly:

    https://www.air-journal.fr/2019-10-29-a ... 15894.html

    Which is a route operated by... Air Europa.
     
    User avatar
    Aisak
    Posts: 925
    Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:56 pm

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:31 pm

    SCQ83 wrote:
    Btw it is interesting last week Air France announced Madrid-Orly


    They must have smelled something weird on any meeting with Air Europa...

    We should expect more CDG-Spanish regions which are currently flown by UX to feed the AF hub.

    SCQ83 wrote:
    They could become rid of OPO as a hub (which makes no sense whatsoever) and LIS could become another BCN; a medium-sized airport with a strong tourism component.

    Well, OPO might make no sense as a hub, but when your hub LIS is packed and you can not operate there in an efficient way...
     
    AstanaMagic
    Posts: 67
    Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:57 pm

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:46 pm

    readytotaxi wrote:
    I feel that BA stopped being a Full Service airline some time ago, but thats just my opinion.


    Why pick on BA

    IB = No Service

    This is based on many years of my own experience
    2020: AGP, KSQ, LGW, LHR, MXP, TAS, ZRH
    A/C: 32B, 32S, 752, 763, E90
    A/L: BA, HY, LX, 2L
     
    LHRFlyer
    Posts: 1038
    Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:50 pm

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:54 pm

    It would be good to see Iberia expand and IAG claim that a larger combined network would also support more new destinations. But regulators are not going to buy the argument of needing to compete against AMS, CDG and FRA. Ultimately, there's nothing that UX does today and IB could not achieve through organic growth if it wanted to
     
    Jetty
    Posts: 1283
    Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:07 pm

    AF-KL is convinced EU antitrust authorities need to take a close look at this deal.

    https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... a-door-iag (Dutch)
     
    nicode
    Posts: 252
    Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 7:58 pm

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:23 pm

    SCQ83 wrote:
    Btw it is interesting last week Air France announced Madrid-Orly:

    https://www.air-journal.fr/2019-10-29-a ... 15894.html

    Which is a route operated by... Air Europa.

    As well as TO (Transavia France)
     
    BA777FO
    Posts: 570
    Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:58 pm

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:43 pm

    enilria wrote:
    This seems hideously anti-competitive. It's not as if Europe is brimming with independent long haul airlines. This should not be approved.


    Europe has more independent long haul airlines than the USA - roughly equivilent aviation markets. If the USA can cope with 3, Europe can cope with a dozen or so.

    And if MAD to South America gets so expensive I imagine TAP will jump in, especially to Brazil, to offer competitive one-stop options and Air France will offer some competitive back-tracking fares as well as the US3 offering connections via MIA, ATL or IAD/EWR/IAH. They're not ideal connections but it's certainly an option for the price-conscious passenger.
     
    onwFan
    Posts: 432
    Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:58 pm

    Jetty wrote:
    AF-KL is convinced EU antitrust authorities need to take a close look at this deal.

    https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... a-door-iag (Dutch)

    Are they pretending that LATAM is not a better partner for them than UX?
     
    Arion640
    Posts: 3058
    Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:58 pm

    SCQ83 wrote:
    peterinlisbon wrote:
    Air Madrid - gone
    Spanair - gone
    Air Comet - gone
    Air Europa - sold to Iberia

    What a shame, I guess that will mean that fares to South America will be going up, although there is still competition on the other end.


    IAG should take over TAP as well. This would allow them to have an even stronger footprint in Europe-LatAm and strength Brazil where IAG is quite weak. TAP setting a "ponte aerea" between Portugal and MAD is suspicious at least. They could become rid of OPO as a hub (which makes no sense whatsoever) and LIS could become another BCN; a medium-sized airport with a strong tourism component.


    I think they wanted too at one point. That certainly won’t be happening now though.
     
    onwFan
    Posts: 432
    Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:33 pm

    Arion640 wrote:
    SCQ83 wrote:
    peterinlisbon wrote:
    Air Madrid - gone
    Spanair - gone
    Air Comet - gone
    Air Europa - sold to Iberia

    What a shame, I guess that will mean that fares to South America will be going up, although there is still competition on the other end.


    IAG should take over TAP as well. This would allow them to have an even stronger footprint in Europe-LatAm and strength Brazil where IAG is quite weak. TAP setting a "ponte aerea" between Portugal and MAD is suspicious at least. They could become rid of OPO as a hub (which makes no sense whatsoever) and LIS could become another BCN; a medium-sized airport with a strong tourism component.


    I think they wanted too at one point. That certainly won’t be happening now though.

    Indeed. IIRC, IAG's interest in TAP waned when TAM joined oneworld. But with LATAM leaving oneworld entirely, this is perhaps the best bet for them. One good thing I see out of this deal is that perhaps IB will finally be able to expand in Asia with a 'real' hub in MAD and find a niche in Asia-Latam traffic (which both AF & KL operate and dominate now).
     
    JJ777
    Posts: 37
    Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:27 pm

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:39 pm

    onwFan wrote:
    Jetty wrote:
    AF-KL is convinced EU antitrust authorities need to take a close look at this deal.

    https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... a-door-iag (Dutch)

    Are they pretending that LATAM is not a better partner for them than UX?


    AF/KLM just extended their partnership with Gol until 2024, so LATAM will probably retain its JV with IAG for the time being.
     
    Oykie
    Posts: 1951
    Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:21 am

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:55 am

    If this deal is approved will that affect IAG ability to buy Norwegian? They are also big in Spain. I’m surprised no one one has thought of buying Air Europa before. I agree it has a perfect name for European aviation.
    Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
     
    User avatar
    vhtje
    Posts: 1181
    Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:40 pm

    Re: IAG to buy Air Europa for €1 billion

    Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:09 am

    Oykie wrote:
    If this deal is approved will that affect IAG ability to buy Norwegian? They are also big in Spain. I’m surprised no one one has thought of buying Air Europa before. I agree it has a perfect name for European aviation.


    IAG have sold their Norwegian shareholding and are not seeking to takeover Norwegian anytime soon.

    https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... id-456397/

    FlightGlobal wrote:
    ”We've fully exited it now," Walsh says of IAG's Norwegian holding, which was originally 4.6% before dilution to 3.93%. He assesses the chances of renewed interest in acquiring the Scandinavian operator thus: "I'd never say never, but I think it's unlikely."


    Note: emphasis is mine.
    I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
    • 1
    • 2
    • 3
    • 4
    • 5
    • 7

    Popular Searches On Airliners.net

    Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

    Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

    Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

    Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

    Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

    Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

    Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

    Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

    Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

    Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

    Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

    Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

    Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

    Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

    Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos