Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
davidjohnson6 wrote:If IAG think this will be a money loser for 6 years, then why are they going ahead with this at all ?
debonair wrote:I think, better I hope, this merger will happen only with major conditions set by EU competition law. In Spain IAG will have IBERIA, IBERIA Express, Vueling, LEVEL and AirEuropa. And also the Spanish to Latin/South America market will be dominated by only oneworld: LATAM/IBERIA. A gap that neither Volotea (domestically), nor Plus Ultra (Transatlantic) will fill.
So IAG will hopefully think twice to bid millions of Euro in a carrier worth nothing, plus loosing slots etc. worth millions of Euro to fulfil the merger!
debonair wrote:I think, better I hope, this merger will happen only with major conditions set by EU competition law. In Spain IAG will have IBERIA, IBERIA Express, Vueling, LEVEL and AirEuropa. And also the Spanish to Latin/South America market will be dominated by only oneworld: LATAM/IBERIA. A gap that neither Volotea (domestically), nor Plus Ultra (Transatlantic) will fill.
So IAG will hopefully think twice to bid millions of Euro in a carrier worth nothing, plus loosing slots etc. worth millions of Euro to fulfil the merger!
tobsw wrote:The same journalist (and newspaper) wrote an article 4 weeks ago stating that IAG would by Air Europa with IAG shares. Funnily, one day later, other journalists (and newspapers) dismissed the agreement to buy Air Europa with shares.
Now there's (apparently) a plot twist in the same journalist/newspaper.
Today the same newspaper - in addition to the "exclusive new 500 million deferred purchase", published an article titled:
"The new agreement between IAG and Air Europe: a logical solution to a cuestionable acquisition" - circling around the agreement to buy Air Europa with shares (the same newspaper dismissed that story already).
https://www.elconfidencial.com/mercados ... e_2836727/
Today, they've also published: "IAG and Air Europa: an agreement everyone benefits from, but only one assumes the risk" --- all around their "exclusive" story about the deferred acquisition of Air Europa by IB.
https://www.elconfidencial.com/mercados ... o_2877471/
NO other Spanish newspapers has any news, rumours or updates about the Air Europa transaction.
I'll just wait until IAG fills a SEC filling with the "new" or "updated" agreement.
julianrv wrote:I wonder what kind of interest rate they should expect in an environment where we're seeing near zero or negatives rates.
kelual wrote:tobsw wrote:The same journalist (and newspaper) wrote an article 4 weeks ago stating that IAG would by Air Europa with IAG shares. Funnily, one day later, other journalists (and newspapers) dismissed the agreement to buy Air Europa with shares.
Now there's (apparently) a plot twist in the same journalist/newspaper.
Today the same newspaper - in addition to the "exclusive new 500 million deferred purchase", published an article titled:
"The new agreement between IAG and Air Europe: a logical solution to a cuestionable acquisition" - circling around the agreement to buy Air Europa with shares (the same newspaper dismissed that story already).
https://www.elconfidencial.com/mercados ... e_2836727/
Today, they've also published: "IAG and Air Europa: an agreement everyone benefits from, but only one assumes the risk" --- all around their "exclusive" story about the deferred acquisition of Air Europa by IB.
https://www.elconfidencial.com/mercados ... o_2877471/
NO other Spanish newspapers has any news, rumours or updates about the Air Europa transaction.
I'll just wait until IAG fills a SEC filling with the "new" or "updated" agreement.
Has IB/IAG officially confirm or deny any of the information from el confidencial in the last month or so?
Detroit313 wrote:debonair wrote:I think, better I hope, this merger will happen only with major conditions set by EU competition law. In Spain IAG will have IBERIA, IBERIA Express, Vueling, LEVEL and AirEuropa. And also the Spanish to Latin/South America market will be dominated by only oneworld: LATAM/IBERIA. A gap that neither Volotea (domestically), nor Plus Ultra (Transatlantic) will fill.
So IAG will hopefully think twice to bid millions of Euro in a carrier worth nothing, plus loosing slots etc. worth millions of Euro to fulfil the merger!
Funny how you don't have any issues with AMS, FRA, CDG etc..
Also, LATAM is not oneworld.
debonair wrote:
Btw. if LATAM is not oneworld, which other alliance they belong to?
by738 wrote:Dont understand this buyout at all. Anything AE were doing IB/IAG could have just done without all the expense of buying and integrating. It cant all be about expanding South America when BA have essentially culled South America.
IAG should let this go....
McG1967 wrote:It makes sense if you look at it from the viewpoint that they have purchased a brand.
The Air Europa brand allows them to have a Europe wide brand that would allow them to consolidate Level, Vuelling and Air Europa all under one brand - Air Europa.
tobsw wrote:McG1967 wrote:It makes sense if you look at it from the viewpoint that they have purchased a brand.
The Air Europa brand allows them to have a Europe wide brand that would allow them to consolidate Level, Vuelling and Air Europa all under one brand - Air Europa.
Not really. Vueling is way more valuable as a brand compared to Air Europa.
Air Europa, as a brand, -if the purchase happens- is going to disappear.
Ishrion wrote:debonair wrote:
Btw. if LATAM is not oneworld, which other alliance they belong to?
None. They left Oneworld earlier this year.
debonair wrote:I think, better I hope, this merger will happen only with major conditions set by EU competition law. In Spain IAG will have IBERIA, IBERIA Express, Vueling, LEVEL and AirEuropa. And also the Spanish to Latin/South America market will be dominated by only oneworld: LATAM/IBERIA. A gap that neither Volotea (domestically), nor Plus Ultra (Transatlantic) will fill.
So IAG will hopefully think twice to bid millions of Euro in a carrier worth nothing, plus loosing slots etc. worth millions of Euro to fulfil the merger!
by738 wrote:Dont understand this buyout at all. Anything AE were doing IB/IAG could have just done without all the expense of buying and integrating. It cant all be about expanding South America when BA have essentially culled South America.
IAG should let this go....
x1234 wrote:All this does is increase IAG's domination of Europe-Latin America which is a huge market (Latin Americans don't need a visa for the most part to visit Western Europe).
dcajet wrote:by738 wrote:Don't understand this buyout at all. Anything AE were doing IB/IAG could have just done without all the expense of buying and integrating. It cant all be about expanding South America when BA have essentially culled South America.
IAG should let this go....
Globalia was shopping around to sell Air Europa. If IB/IAG did not make a move, then we would have seen LH or AF-KL make a move. MAD as a Latin America hub is a powerful franchise. Why allow the competition to move in?
tobsw wrote:McG1967 wrote:It makes sense if you look at it from the viewpoint that they have purchased a brand.
The Air Europa brand allows them to have a Europe wide brand that would allow them to consolidate Level, Vuelling and Air Europa all under one brand - Air Europa.
Not really. Vueling is way more valuable as a brand compared to Air Europa.
Air Europa, as a brand, -if the purchase happens- is going to disappear.
BealineV953 wrote:dcajet wrote:by738 wrote:Don't understand this buyout at all. Anything AE were doing IB/IAG could have just done without all the expense of buying and integrating. It cant all be about expanding South America when BA have essentially culled South America.
IAG should let this go....
Globalia was shopping around to sell Air Europa. If IB/IAG did not make a move, then we would have seen LH or AF-KL make a move. MAD as a Latin America hub is a powerful franchise. Why allow the competition to move in?
I'm not convinced that Lufthansa would have been interested in Air Europa. Lufthansa have acquired the larger carrier in a number of markets (Swiss, Austrian, Brussels Airlines). However, when they owned bmi, a smaller carrier, they found themselves caught between BA and low cost carriers (easyJet and Ryanair). I don't see Lufthansa rushing to repeat that sort of unhappy experience.
Air France-KLM do not have a history of growth through acquiring smaller carriers at non-AF-KL hubs. I doubt if they would have rushed into buying Air Europa.
Air Europa has more value for IAG than for Lufthansa or AF-KL.
by738 wrote:BealineV953 wrote:dcajet wrote:
Globalia was shopping around to sell Air Europa. If IB/IAG did not make a move, then we would have seen LH or AF-KL make a move. MAD as a Latin America hub is a powerful franchise. Why allow the competition to move in?
I'm not convinced that Lufthansa would have been interested in Air Europa. Lufthansa have acquired the larger carrier in a number of markets (Swiss, Austrian, Brussels Airlines). However, when they owned bmi, a smaller carrier, they found themselves caught between BA and low cost carriers (easyJet and Ryanair). I don't see Lufthansa rushing to repeat that sort of unhappy experience.
Air France-KLM do not have a history of growth through acquiring smaller carriers at non-AF-KL hubs. I doubt if they would have rushed into buying Air Europa.
Air Europa has more value for IAG than for Lufthansa or AF-KL.
Who mentioned Lufthansa?
SeaKing4 wrote:According to this link: https://www.scramble.nl/civil-news/iag- ... 3xzefPk250 and the Spanish press IAG has acquired Air Europa for 500 million Euros after reaching a final agreement with Globalia.
tobsw wrote:No one knows.
IAG neither UX have confirmed a 'new' purchase agreement.
There are just baseless rumours.
onwFan wrote:tobsw wrote:No one knows.
IAG neither UX have confirmed a 'new' purchase agreement.
There are just baseless rumours.
IAG confirms, and looks like the rumors were actually spot on:
https://www.iairgroup.com/en/newsroom/p ... air-europa
Under the terms of the Amendment Agreement, the parties have agreed that the amount to be paid by Iberia for Air Europa will be reduced from an equity value of €1 billion to €500 million with payment deferred until the sixth anniversary of the Acquisition’s completion.
The revised terms in the Amendment Agreement are conditional on the satisfactory negotiation between Iberia and Sociedad Estatal de Participaciones Industriales (“SEPI”) regarding the non-financial terms associated with the financial support provided by SEPI to Air Europa during 2020. Iberia intends to begin discussions with SEPI shortly concerning these conditions.
Assuming satisfaction of all conditions of the Amendment Agreement and the Acquisition, completion is expected to take place in the second half of 2021. The Acquisition is still subject to approval by the European Commission.
onwFan wrote:Under the terms of the Amendment Agreement, the parties have agreed that the amount to be paid by Iberia for Air Europa will be reduced from an equity value of €1 billion to €500 million with payment deferred until the sixth anniversary of the Acquisition’s completion.
seahawk wrote:(and before you wonder, it is not about slots at MAD and BCN but about slots at the destinations many of whom are slot limited in normal times)
Polot wrote:seahawk wrote:(and before you wonder, it is not about slots at MAD and BCN but about slots at the destinations many of whom are slot limited in normal times)
Most of Air Europa’s destinations are not particularly restricted, and those that are Air Europa typically has a minimal presence. They are not a large airline at all.
PANAMsterdam wrote:I think AirFrance/KLM will be kind of *MAD* at this take over. (Pun intended)
Opus99 wrote:Nice deal for IAG i guess. Looking at Air Europas fleet is it just me that thinks IAG acquiring the max is even more likely. Air Europa coming in sort of breaks their monopoly on Airbus narrow bodies
Jayafe wrote:Opus99 wrote:Nice deal for IAG i guess. Looking at Air Europas fleet is it just me that thinks IAG acquiring the max is even more likely. Air Europa coming in sort of breaks their monopoly on Airbus narrow bodies
It's just you. The main target of the company is LH. IB will likely use its national SH fleet to feed Air Europa, and IB getting a mixed fleet is a wet dream of some that the company can't (and won't) afford. Keeping the SH fleet in place once they can use the code sharing with IB makes absolute no sense, specially post covid.
In the long run (6-8 years, once the deal is sealed), it seems obvious that IB will just digest the whole brand (as will do with Level) and get rid of orphan fleets, relocating 787s within IAG and phasing out the Embraers and 787s, the latests will be circa 15 yo by then.
Polot wrote:seahawk wrote:(and before you wonder, it is not about slots at MAD and BCN but about slots at the destinations many of whom are slot limited in normal times)
Most of Air Europa’s destinations are not particularly restricted, and those that are Air Europa typically has a minimal presence. They are not a large airline at all.
tobsw wrote:Commission opens in-depth investigation into proposed acquisition of Air Europa by IAG
""At this stage, the Commission is concerned that the proposed transaction could significantly reduce competition on 70 origin and destination (O&D) city pairs within and to/from Spain, on which both airlines offer direct services. On some routes, IAG and Air Europa have been the only two airlines operating.
The Commission is also concerned about the effect of the proposed transaction on routes on which other airlines rely on Air Europa's domestic and short-haul network for their own operations at the Madrid airport and a number of other EU airports. Without Air Europa's feeder traffic, some airlines may decide to terminate their services to international destinations also served by IAG, reducing choice for travellers.
At this stage, the Commission found that competition from other airlines, including from European low-cost carriers would likely not provide a sufficient constraint on the merged entity on the routes where it would hold high market shares. Similarly, the competitive pressure of European network airlines or Latin American airlines appears insufficient.""
.
""The proposed transaction was notified to the Commission on 25 May 2020. IAG and Air Europa have decided not to submit commitments. The Commission has now 90 working days, until 5 November 2021, to take a decision. The opening of an in-depth investigation does not prejudge the outcome of the investigation.""
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pressco ... ip_21_3328
Opus99 wrote:Jayafe wrote:Opus99 wrote:Nice deal for IAG i guess. Looking at Air Europas fleet is it just me that thinks IAG acquiring the max is even more likely. Air Europa coming in sort of breaks their monopoly on Airbus narrow bodies
It's just you. The main target of the company is LH. IB will likely use its national SH fleet to feed Air Europa, and IB getting a mixed fleet is a wet dream of some that the company can't (and won't) afford. Keeping the SH fleet in place once they can use the code sharing with IB makes absolute no sense, specially post covid.
In the long run (6-8 years, once the deal is sealed), it seems obvious that IB will just digest the whole brand (as will do with Level) and get rid of orphan fleets, relocating 787s within IAG and phasing out the Embraers and 787s, the latests will be circa 15 yo by then.
And the 737s that already exist in the fleet what happens to them? And the MAXs already built. BA has a massive replacement program coming up eventually. There’s use for those jets at other IAG airlines. It makes it easier for IAG to further the MAX deal if the jets now come under their books. They can move the order to BA. Which was slated to get about 30 of that MAX order
LAXintl wrote:EU antitrust regulators extend decision deadline for IAG-Air Europa deal to Dec. 3
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-07-22/