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xwb777
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UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:51 pm

The UK border control has announced that they will be restricting the entry of the shower attendants on Emirates A380 flights to the UK. This comes as the border control won’t let unlicensed crew to enter the country.

In response, Emirates is no longer rostering the shower attendants crew to London, Manchester, Birmingham and Glasgow. In the meantime, Emirates will be rostering an extra purser or first class crew on all UK flights, until a solution is found.

Link: https://onemileatatime.com/uk-bans-emir ... Attendants
 
edealinfo
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:30 pm

I guess UK is the only country in the world advocating for shower room cleaners to be licensed. What next - licenses for shoe shiners?
 
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par13del
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:39 pm

Perhaps this will put pressure on EK to retire its A380's early to assist BA having more routes to operate their's and or get some second hand birds at a better price?
 
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Aisak
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:41 pm

Well, if these “special” Visas are granted for crew, I am with the UK border here if these people are not under a crew contract with the airline. If they are foreigners on a “regular job”, they should just have to apply for a regular visa in order to pass through inmigration and enter the UK.

Rostering an additional crew to do the job just seem the perfect interim solution in the meantime.
 
HVNwxROC
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:43 pm

If this was a regulation for the past 10 years that Emirates has been operating them into the UK, why is it only just now being enforced?
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:44 pm

The simple fix should be the hire a real, certified flight attendant for this position. Which seems to be what they're doing.
 
Arion640
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:46 pm

par13del wrote:
Perhaps this will put pressure on EK to retire its A380's early to assist BA having more routes to operate their's and or get some second hand birds at a better price?


Yes, that’s definitely the case.
 
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par13del
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:47 pm

Aisak wrote:
Well, if these “special” Visas are granted for crew, I am with the UK border here if these people are not under a crew contract with the airline. If they are foreigners on a “regular job”, they should just have to apply for a regular visa in order to pass through inmigration and enter the UK.

Rostering an additional crew to do the job just seem the perfect interim solution in the meantime.

Well they have to be some kind of employee of the airline to be able to get on the flight and work.
Obviously they are crew, they may not be F/A's or pilots but they are crew, perhaps a political statement is being made that their salaries and benefits should be higher?
In years past when jets required engineers, they were not pilots or F/A's but somehow visas were created for them as crew, right?
 
edealinfo
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:48 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
The simple fix should be the hire a real, certified flight attendant for this position. Which seems to be what they're doing.

So, because the UK can’t handle it, Emirates needs to hire an overqualified person to clean the showers? At your office, do you also hire MBAs to do janitorial services?
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:49 pm

I've never flown 1st class. Can someone describe what the shower attendant's job is ? It sounds somewhat unnecessary...
 
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par13del
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:49 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
The simple fix should be the hire a real, certified flight attendant for this position. Which seems to be what they're doing.

According to the articles, these individuals are paid less since they are not trained F/A's.
How about ensuring that the cleaning of the showers only happen when the a/c arrives in the UK thus preserving / creating more UK jobs?
 
aircatalonia
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:50 pm

Do we really need showers on airplanes? I mean, really.
 
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par13del
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:58 pm

aircatalonia wrote:
Do we really need showers on airplanes? I mean, really.

If they release the water at 30K feet, it should evaporate before hitting the ground thus saving the UK from having to pump the water out of the tanks, saving energy?
 
PhilMcCrackin
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:00 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
I've never flown 1st class. Can someone describe what the shower attendant's job is ? It sounds somewhat unnecessary...


It sounds like the clean the showers in between use and tidy up all of the lavs when they're not operating the shower.

The UK's position is that since these attendants technically aren't licensed flight crew, they don't deserve the same special entry status that regular flight crews receive.
 
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fraspotter
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:06 pm

edealinfo wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
The simple fix should be the hire a real, certified flight attendant for this position. Which seems to be what they're doing.

So, because the UK can’t handle it, Emirates needs to hire an overqualified person to clean the showers? At your office, do you also hire MBAs to do janitorial services?


Or simply include the shower attendant in the normal flight duties of the FAs. If normal operation of something on board can't/won't be done by a trained FA then it shouldn't be on board. All company employees on board (shower attendants included) should be trained equally in order to be able to assist in the event of an emergency. Their shower attendants aren't qualified. Seems to me a bit ridiculous to hire people for the sole purpose of maintaining the first class showers in flight just so they can pay them less than FAs. What's next? Hire "catering attendants" to deal with all the food in-flight to save money on FAs? After all FAs are primarily "flight safety personnel" so theoretically as long as its not related to flight safety then it can be contracted out at a lower rate to a lesser trained person.
Last edited by fraspotter on Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."

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Jetty
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:08 pm

edealinfo wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
The simple fix should be the hire a real, certified flight attendant for this position. Which seems to be what they're doing.

So, because the UK can’t handle it, Emirates needs to hire an overqualified person to clean the showers? At your office, do you also hire MBAs to do janitorial services?

If being less qualified includes the risk of staff applying for asylum once on UK territory yes. Many people risk their life to get to the UK and would probably clean showers for a while to get there as well.
 
ScottB
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:14 pm

par13del wrote:
Well they have to be some kind of employee of the airline to be able to get on the flight and work.


Not necessarily. They could be contractors or even work just for tips, with the airline providing a non-rev seat for the shower attendant during critical phases of flight.

fraspotter wrote:
Or simply include the shower attendant in the normal flight duties of the FAs. All company employees on board (shower attendants included) should be trained equally in order to be able to assist in the event of an emergency. Their shower attendants aren't qualified. Seems to me a bit ridiculous to hire people for the sole purpose of maintaining the first class showers in flight just so they can pay them less than FAs. What's next? Hire "catering attendants" to deal with all the food in-flight to save money on FAs? After all FAs are primarily "flight safety personnel" so theoretically as long as its not related to flight safety then it can be contracted out at a lower rate to a lesser trained person.


It wouldn't surprise me if someone has thought of that, but there are regulatory requirements with respect to minimum FA staffing for safety purposes, so you still need at least that minimum to operate and you might as well use them to serve the passengers. That said, if memory serves, Hooters Air had Hooters Girls on their flights in addition to the flight attendant staffing required by regulation.
 
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johnboy
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:16 pm

edealinfo wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
The simple fix should be the hire a real, certified flight attendant for this position. Which seems to be what they're doing.

So, because the UK can’t handle it, Emirates needs to hire an overqualified person to clean the showers? At your office, do you also hire MBAs to do janitorial services?



Don’t they clean the toilets already?
 
flymad
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Re: UK bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:18 pm

They may not be FA's, but they are still part of the rostered flight crew, licenced or not. What stops Emirates from just issuing them with a 'shower crew' special licence?
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:18 pm

Maybe they should train the shower attendants to be able to fly the plane, just in case all of the pilots eat the fish.
 
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Rookie87
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:21 pm

fraspotter wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
The simple fix should be the hire a real, certified flight attendant for this position. Which seems to be what they're doing.

So, because the UK can’t handle it, Emirates needs to hire an overqualified person to clean the showers? At your office, do you also hire MBAs to do janitorial services?


Or simply include the shower attendant in the normal flight duties of the FAs. If normal operation of something on board can't/won't be done by a trained FA then it shouldn't be on board. All company employees on board (shower attendants included) should be trained equally in order to be able to assist in the event of an emergency. Their shower attendants aren't qualified. Seems to me a bit ridiculous to hire people for the sole purpose of maintaining the first class showers in flight just so they can pay them less than FAs. What's next? Hire "catering attendants" to deal with all the food in-flight to save money on FAs? After all FAs are primarily "flight safety personnel" so theoretically as long as its not related to flight safety then it can be contracted out at a lower rate to a lesser trained person.


Some airlines have translators that aren't FAs to help only with translating on the flight. AA used to have them and I believe Jet Blue still had them to Port au Prince. What's the difference here? Seems like the UK is just ...ugh
 
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fraspotter
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:30 pm

Rookie87 wrote:
fraspotter wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
So, because the UK can’t handle it, Emirates needs to hire an overqualified person to clean the showers? At your office, do you also hire MBAs to do janitorial services?


Or simply include the shower attendant in the normal flight duties of the FAs. If normal operation of something on board can't/won't be done by a trained FA then it shouldn't be on board. All company employees on board (shower attendants included) should be trained equally in order to be able to assist in the event of an emergency. Their shower attendants aren't qualified. Seems to me a bit ridiculous to hire people for the sole purpose of maintaining the first class showers in flight just so they can pay them less than FAs. What's next? Hire "catering attendants" to deal with all the food in-flight to save money on FAs? After all FAs are primarily "flight safety personnel" so theoretically as long as its not related to flight safety then it can be contracted out at a lower rate to a lesser trained person.


Some airlines have translators that aren't FAs to help only with translating on the flight. AA used to have them and I believe Jet Blue still had them to Port au Prince. What's the difference here? Seems like the UK is just ...ugh


What's probably happening here was that since they aren't equal to FA in status or pay these shower attendants were probably form the lower economic classes and were using the lower entry level job of "shower attendant" as an easy way to get into a country like the UK and stay illegally/claim asylum. Probably took the Govt all these years to finally catch on to what was happening. Chances are that behind the scenes they found that Emirates' attendants (maybe Etihad's too?) were using this loophole to get in the country.
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."

— Gunter's Second Law of Air Travel
 
JibberJim
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:36 pm

The guidance of the law is here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... crew-crm02
It's pretty clear that it's just for actual working safety based cabin crew, it's more surprising that it's been overlooked until now.

Easiest solution is just to get UK (or maybe for awhile EU) citizens to clean the showers.
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:57 pm

The A380s are a dying breed. So are the showers. This will only expedite the dying process.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
JAGflyer
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:03 pm

What is the difference between a flight attendant/onboard chef/shower attendant/etc? I've never heard of a "license" for flight attendants. If you are employed by an airline and on a flight for the purpose of engaging in work you'd normally be listed on the general declaration (master customs document showing every crewmember's name and passport credentials) who are on duty for a specific flight. Could it be something to do with potential refugee/asylum claims from people who went to work for EK at low wages from poorer nations and are now trying to leverage that as a free ticket to UK residency?
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SoCalFlyer
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:10 pm

Rookie87 wrote:
fraspotter wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
So, because the UK can’t handle it, Emirates needs to hire an overqualified person to clean the showers? At your office, do you also hire MBAs to do janitorial services?


Or simply include the shower attendant in the normal flight duties of the FAs. If normal operation of something on board can't/won't be done by a trained FA then it shouldn't be on board. All company employees on board (shower attendants included) should be trained equally in order to be able to assist in the event of an emergency. Their shower attendants aren't qualified. Seems to me a bit ridiculous to hire people for the sole purpose of maintaining the first class showers in flight just so they can pay them less than FAs. What's next? Hire "catering attendants" to deal with all the food in-flight to save money on FAs? After all FAs are primarily "flight safety personnel" so theoretically as long as its not related to flight safety then it can be contracted out at a lower rate to a lesser trained person.


Some airlines have translators that aren't FAs to help only with translating on the flight. AA used to have them and I believe Jet Blue still had them to Port au Prince. What's the difference here? Seems like the UK is just ...ugh



We do have them at jetblue, however they are door trained and sit on the jumpseat for take off and landing. But that’s all that they’re trained to do is operate the door, and they don’t have full crew status I don’t believe.
 
Noshow
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:11 pm

Could this be any micro retaliation for something else between the UK and the UAE going on? Seems pretty strange after all those years and after EK buying so many welsh wings and RR engines.
 
xwb777
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:14 pm

From an Emirates staff: The unlicensed crew are called ''Crew Service Agent'. They help in maintaining the onboard bar and the showers.
 
Noshow
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:19 pm

I'd still consider them flight crew. They are onboard the flight to do some work. How about security staff? Those are not necessarily airline staff but needed as well?

What would the Brits say about some A380 tailgunner? Crew or not? :mrgreen:
 
AEROFAN
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:41 pm

edealinfo wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
The simple fix should be the hire a real, certified flight attendant for this position. Which seems to be what they're doing.

So, because the UK can’t handle it, Emirates needs to hire an overqualified person to clean the showers? At your office, do you also hire MBAs to do janitorial services?


Oh get a grip! If EK wants to provide this service it must get with the program as mandated by the country's laws. I don't understand why some of you get so bent out of shape over such minutiae.
“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.” ~Harlan Ellison~
 
JibberJim
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:47 pm

Noshow wrote:
I'd still consider them flight crew. They are onboard the flight to do some work. How about security staff? Those are not necessarily airline staff but needed as well?


Security staff are not covered, and would need appropriate visas to enter.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:02 pm

Either an airline trains, licences and pays the shower people to the same level as existing cabin crew, or they make existing cabin crew work a bit in the showers during the flight. If the flight is licenced to operate without the shower people, then they clearly do not have a safety related role, and should not have automatic entry to a country of arrival simply by virtue of being able to clean shower cubicles

If Emirates really feel these people are essential, then put them in a hotel airside, without passing immigration so they can get some sleep before spending another 8 hours cleaning showers.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:19 pm

How will they pick the lucky winner. I guess economy class FA is more appealing now.

It would be interesting to know how many of these toilet attendants disappeared in UK.
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Pinto
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:27 pm

I think that ot probably boils down to them not being trained in flight crew procedures. If they aren't trained then they would probably get in the way in the event of an emergency.
 
32andBelow
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:06 am

par13del wrote:
Aisak wrote:
Well, if these “special” Visas are granted for crew, I am with the UK border here if these people are not under a crew contract with the airline. If they are foreigners on a “regular job”, they should just have to apply for a regular visa in order to pass through inmigration and enter the UK.

Rostering an additional crew to do the job just seem the perfect interim solution in the meantime.

Well they have to be some kind of employee of the airline to be able to get on the flight and work.
Obviously they are crew, they may not be F/A's or pilots but they are crew, perhaps a political statement is being made that their salaries and benefits should be higher?
In years past when jets required engineers, they were not pilots or F/A's but somehow visas were created for them as crew, right?
your seriously comparing flight engineers who were required for the plane to even get off the ground to someone who operates a shower? Of course a flight engineer is crew. The plane would be grounded without one.
 
alfa164
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:14 am

Rookie87 wrote:
Some airlines have translators that aren't FAs to help only with translating on the flight. AA used to have them and I believe Jet Blue still had them to Port au Prince. What's the difference here? Seems like the UK is just ...ugh


On most of the international flights I have flown, the "translators" were actual flight attendants; do recall a "translator" on a Cairo flight once who probably wasn't, but I believe she went through regular Customs-and-Immigration channels, not the crew line.

And those Jet Blue flights probably do turn-arounds at Port au Prince, with no crew members going through Customs and Immigration - although I could be wrong about that.
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DeltaConnection
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:22 am

Just another area the UK is trying to find a way to licence/collect fines for.

I'm surprised you don't need a "flying on an airplane" licence to even book a ticket.
 
Airlinerdude
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:16 am

fraspotter wrote:

Or simply include the shower attendant in the normal flight duties of the FAs. If normal operation of something on board can't/won't be done by a trained FA then it shouldn't be on board. All company employees on board (shower attendants included) should be trained equally in order to be able to assist in the event of an emergency.


Why 'should' that be the case? Lots of airlines that temporarily wet-lease aircraft will often have their own staff members on board who are not trained in the emergency procedures on that aircraft.

Their shower attendants aren't qualified. Seems to me a bit ridiculous to hire people for the sole purpose of maintaining the first class showers in flight just so they can pay them less than FAs. What's next? Hire "catering attendants" to deal with all the food in-flight to save money on FAs? After all FAs are primarily "flight safety personnel" so theoretically as long as its not related to flight safety then it can be contracted out at a lower rate to a lesser trained person.


Check Gulf Air, they have Sky Chefs. I'm not sure whether they're deemed to be flight attendants.

https://www.gulfair.com/on-board/sky-chef

Thenoflyzone wrote:
The A380s are a dying breed. So are the showers. This will only expedite the dying process.


Have you ever used the shower on EK's 380s?
 
paperwastage
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:17 am

JAGflyer wrote:
What is the difference between a flight attendant/onboard chef/shower attendant/etc? I've never heard of a "license" for flight attendants.

At least for FAA, they do issue flight attendants certificates

Slightly old sources, not sure if anything significant has changed since 2003
viewtopic.php?t=750567

http://ashsd.afacwa.org/?zone=/unionact ... meID=10814
 
speedbird52
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:49 am

Thenoflyzone wrote:
The A380s are a dying breed. So are the showers. This will only expedite the dying process.

You genuinely think that getting rid of the showers on routes to one country will make Emirates retire the a380 sooner?
 
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Rookie87
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:57 am

alfa164 wrote:
Rookie87 wrote:
Some airlines have translators that aren't FAs to help only with translating on the flight. AA used to have them and I believe Jet Blue still had them to Port au Prince. What's the difference here? Seems like the UK is just ...ugh


On most of the international flights I have flown, the "translators" were actual flight attendants; do recall a "translator" on a Cairo flight once who probably wasn't, but I believe she went through regular Customs-and-Immigration channels, not the crew line.

And those Jet Blue flights probably do turn-arounds at Port au Prince, with no crew members going through Customs and Immigration - although I could be wrong about that.


Fair point about them not having to clear customs in Haiti. Still, it's not unheard of for airlines to have employees on board who are not crew. This change by the UK is ridiculous UNLESS they have reason to impose this rule i.e. refugees, like some are claiming on here. If not, 10 years and NOW a sudden change?
 
Andy33
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:44 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
If Emirates really feel these people are essential, then put them in a hotel airside, without passing immigration so they can get some sleep before spending another 8 hours cleaning showers.


What airside hotels are these then? There are none at any airport in the UK that Emirates serves. Plenty of landside hotels, no airside ones.
 
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zeke
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:11 am

Hope the U.K. then bans for consistency all the animal attendants that move the race horses and polo pony’s about. They are e not qualified aircrew either.
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ei146
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:18 am

JibberJim wrote:
The guidance of the law is here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... crew-crm02
It's pretty clear that it's just for actual working safety based cabin crew, it's more surprising that it's been overlooked until now.

Easiest solution is just to get UK (or maybe for awhile EU) citizens to clean the showers.


I guess the relevant part is this:

But aircraft security guards, crew on training, loadmasters and others are not accepted as operating crew; they will need their passport and, where applicable, visas.


Every country has the right to make it's own laws. But I also have the right to my opinion and I think this is stupid.
As I understand it in shipping shipboys, chefs, cabin stewards or security officers are of course considered part of the crew, so are sailors who are still in training. Why should it be any different in aviation?
 
JibberJim
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:44 am

ei146 wrote:
Every country has the right to make it's own laws. But I also have the right to my opinion and I think this is stupid.
As I understand it in shipping shipboys, chefs, cabin stewards or security officers are of course considered part of the crew, so are sailors who are still in training. Why should it be any different in aviation?


Who knows, it's a 50 year old law, and I doubt the motivations that caused it then are particularly relevant to now, and it would be different in any update to the law, the UK government is pretty dysfunctional and busy to legislate though. I also wouldn't be surprised that the enforcing now was due to Emirates competitors moaning about it, as opposed to anything else, although it could just be some new more racist/officious border security bod at one of the airports.
 
Andy33
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Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:00 am

ei146 wrote:
JibberJim wrote:
The guidance of the law is here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... crew-crm02
It's pretty clear that it's just for actual working safety based cabin crew, it's more surprising that it's been overlooked until now.

Easiest solution is just to get UK (or maybe for awhile EU) citizens to clean the showers.


I guess the relevant part is this:

But aircraft security guards, crew on training, loadmasters and others are not accepted as operating crew; they will need their passport and, where applicable, visas.


Every country has the right to make it's own laws. But I also have the right to my opinion and I think this is stupid.
As I understand it in shipping shipboys, chefs, cabin stewards or security officers are of course considered part of the crew, so are sailors who are still in training. Why should it be any different in aviation?

Just about every country has immigration rules that citizens of other countries regard as bizarre or inconsistent. Some of them are simply exemptions that have existed for very many years and can be demonstrated not to have been abused. For example lots of countries exempt shipwrecked sailors from requiring visas - that's entirely sensible as they don't normally want to be shipwrecked at all, let alone to come ashore in a country they don't have immigration clearance for. But some countries with no coastline allow shipwrecked sailors visa-free transit to get back to their home country, which dates back to them taking overland routes. Nowadays they'd almost certainly fly, but the concession remains.

But on board a ship, all the crew have defined safety duties in the event of an incident requiring evacuation of the ship, not just the deck crew. Cabin stewards, chefs and so on do have duties in connection with issuing lifejackets and handling lifeboats. There simply wouldn't be enough people on a ferry or cruise ship to handle the work otherwise.

There are paid staff on ships who don't have safety related duties - think of the entertainment team on cruise ships, but they then aren't technically part of the crew and don't benefit from immigration exemptions for crew members, though most countries that receive regular cruise traffic are relaxed about issuing multiple re-entry visas to them.
 
SKAirbus
Posts: 1545
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:18 pm

Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:12 am

As a Brit, I am normally mortified by how the UK Border Force operates and the decisions it takes but I can almost understand this.

Dubai/UAE is known as somewhere that uses modern day slavery in almost every sector: construction, hospitality, healthcare etc etc. These people are paid very little, forced to live in disgusting conditions and made to work very long hours without any rights whatsoever. This seems to be an attempt by EK to bring this practice into the aviation industry. In Europe there is more of a focus on human rights, something that is not a priority in the Middle East - so I'm glad to see the UK put a stop to this.
Base: BRU
 
Bongodog49
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:35 am

Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:02 pm

zeke wrote:
Hope the U.K. then bans for consistency all the animal attendants that move the race horses and polo pony’s about. They are e not qualified aircrew either.


Surely grooms accompanying horses have to comply with all relevant immigration rules, i.e a working visa if they are non EU citizens.

I've just found a relevant quote:

UK Visas and Immigration department offers CRM01 for seafarers and CRM02 for Aircrew. The immigration act 1971 cover seafarers under Section 8(1) and aircrew under Section 33(1).[19] The aircrew members must have a valid passport, authorized crew member certificate or a pilot’s licence.[20] The security guards, trainee crew members and loadmasters in the country are not considered as operating crew and they need applicable visa to work as a crew.[21] EEA nationals coming on a short term visit are not subject to restrictions, they need only either a National Identity Card or a passport.

I would guess that UK Immigration has only just become aware that EK has a category of cabin crew who do not meet with the requirements of a CRM02 visa.
 
luckyone
Posts: 3020
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:00 pm

Considering Emirates' load factor, they are flying planes that are nowhere near full. Any reason they cannot just seat them on board for a return flight without having to pass immigration?
 
cuban8
Posts: 253
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:17 pm

Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:41 pm

32andBelow wrote:
par13del wrote:
Aisak wrote:
Well, if these “special” Visas are granted for crew, I am with the UK border here if these people are not under a crew contract with the airline. If they are foreigners on a “regular job”, they should just have to apply for a regular visa in order to pass through inmigration and enter the UK.

Rostering an additional crew to do the job just seem the perfect interim solution in the meantime.

Well they have to be some kind of employee of the airline to be able to get on the flight and work.
Obviously they are crew, they may not be F/A's or pilots but they are crew, perhaps a political statement is being made that their salaries and benefits should be higher?
In years past when jets required engineers, they were not pilots or F/A's but somehow visas were created for them as crew, right?
your seriously comparing flight engineers who were required for the plane to even get off the ground to someone who operates a shower? Of course a flight engineer is crew. The plane would be grounded without one.

Funny thing is, even the flight engineers gets refused in the UK these days.

I’ve been flying out of the UAE to the UK for the last 10 years with flight engineers onboard without any issues. We are operating a private Airbus CJ and we always carry an engineer in case of a maintenance problem.

Beginning of this year, our flight engineer got detained for 4 hours since they didn’t consider him as a part of the crew. Obviously, the Airbus only requires two pilots, but our engineer has been on average 3-4 weeks in the UK for the last 10 years with no issues from UK border control.

Something has definitely changed!!
When business goes to hell, you get rid of three things. Your private jet, your yacht and your mistress..........and most importantly in that order.
~ Russian Billionaire ~

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