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Andy33
Posts: 2563
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:34 pm

cuban8 wrote:
Funny thing is, even the flight engineers gets refused in the UK these days.

I’ve been flying out of the UAE to the UK for the last 10 years with flight engineers onboard without any issues. We are operating a private Airbus CJ and we always carry an engineer in case of a maintenance problem.

Beginning of this year, our flight engineer got detained for 4 hours since they didn’t consider him as a part of the crew. Obviously, the Airbus only requires two pilots, but our engineer has been on average 3-4 weeks in the UK for the last 10 years with no issues from UK border control.

Something has definitely changed!!

Well, one thing that has changed would be the government - and guess who gives the border control people their orders....
 
cuban8
Posts: 253
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:17 pm

Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:49 pm

Andy33 wrote:
cuban8 wrote:
Funny thing is, even the flight engineers gets refused in the UK these days.

I’ve been flying out of the UAE to the UK for the last 10 years with flight engineers onboard without any issues. We are operating a private Airbus CJ and we always carry an engineer in case of a maintenance problem.

Beginning of this year, our flight engineer got detained for 4 hours since they didn’t consider him as a part of the crew. Obviously, the Airbus only requires two pilots, but our engineer has been on average 3-4 weeks in the UK for the last 10 years with no issues from UK border control.

Something has definitely changed!!

Well, one thing that has changed would be the government - and guess who gives the border control people their orders....

I don’t know if this is related to Brexit or not. That being said, Mrs. May was in office at the time we encountered trouble with the border control.
When business goes to hell, you get rid of three things. Your private jet, your yacht and your mistress..........and most importantly in that order.
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SamYeager2016
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:22 pm

Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:34 pm

Immigration and border controls have been a big issue in the UK recently so I'm sure instructions have come down from on high to enforce the existing laws more strictly.
 
dcaviation
Posts: 479
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:26 am

Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:53 pm

SKAirbus wrote:
As a Brit, I am normally mortified by how the UK Border Force operates and the decisions it takes but I can almost understand this.

Dubai/UAE is known as somewhere that uses modern day slavery in almost every sector: construction, hospitality, healthcare etc etc. These people are paid very little, forced to live in disgusting conditions and made to work very long hours without any rights whatsoever. This seems to be an attempt by EK to bring this practice into the aviation industry. In Europe there is more of a focus on human rights, something that is not a priority in the Middle East - so I'm glad to see the UK put a stop to this.


So it shows that you know very little to nothing about living conditions of workers in UAE. I'm glad UK is leaving from EU. They don't deserve to be part of it.
 
BerenErchamion
Posts: 235
Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 12:44 am

Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:11 pm

edealinfo wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
The simple fix should be the hire a real, certified flight attendant for this position. Which seems to be what they're doing.

So, because the UK can’t handle it, Emirates needs to hire an overqualified person to clean the showers? At your office, do you also hire MBAs to do janitorial services?


No, because we also don't hire underqualified people.
 
hrc773
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:35 pm

Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:23 pm

So, what about the Virgin Atlantic inflight masseur/masseuses? Are/were those full certified Flight Attendants? They wouldn't qualify for the crew visa either, if they're not trained as such.
 
ei146
Posts: 310
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:54 pm

Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:36 pm

Andy33 wrote:
But on board a ship, all the crew have defined safety duties in the event of an incident requiring evacuation of the ship, not just the deck crew. Cabin stewards, chefs and so on do have duties in connection with issuing lifejackets and handling lifeboats. There simply wouldn't be enough people on a ferry or cruise ship to handle the work otherwise.


And the shower assistents have the task to remove puddles of water from the floor so that nobody slips. Just imagine you would have to evacuate an A380 with a slippery floor!
:shock: :D
 
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JannEejit
Posts: 1602
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:04 pm

Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:06 pm

hrc773 wrote:
So, what about the Virgin Atlantic inflight masseur/masseuses? Are/were those full certified Flight Attendants? They wouldn't qualify for the crew visa either, if they're not trained as such.


But didn't Virgin withdraw that service years ago ? Quite possibly for similar reasons ?
 
PhilMcCrackin
Posts: 311
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:54 pm

Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:07 pm

hrc773 wrote:
So, what about the Virgin Atlantic inflight masseur/masseuses? Are/were those full certified Flight Attendants? They wouldn't qualify for the crew visa either, if they're not trained as such.


They're presumably UK citizens so they wouldn't require a visa.
 
FCAFLYBOY
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:03 am

Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:55 pm

hrc773 wrote:
So, what about the Virgin Atlantic inflight masseur/masseuses? Are/were those full certified Flight Attendants? They wouldn't qualify for the crew visa either, if they're not trained as such.


The VS beauty therapists were fully qualified crew, in terms of SEP/Safety and usually service too, and occupied jump seats as per main crew.
 
MeCe
Posts: 282
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:19 am

Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:29 am

UK can deny shower attendants entrance as crew; if they are not part of crew simply they dont need have rest rules. So, they can leave with passengers, pass the immigration than go to hotel. I am sure that EK can arrange a fast pass from immigration. Same for return, leave hotel little bit early, pass the security again EK can arrange a fast pass. No big drama here, flight engineers do it all the time.
 
gunnerman
Posts: 1129
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:22 pm

hrc773 wrote:
So, what about the Virgin Atlantic inflight masseur/masseuses? Are/were those full certified Flight Attendants? They wouldn't qualify for the crew visa either, if they're not trained as such.

My understanding is that they were recruited as beauty therapists and then given the same training as other crew in medical and safety & emergency procedures. So, they wouldn't serve food and drink as that was the job of cabin crew but in an emergency they could assist in evacuating passengers from the aircraft.

When the therapy service was axed in 2008 all 320 in-flight therapists were offered ground-based jobs or being retrained as cabin crew.
 
hrc773
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:35 pm

Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:41 pm

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
hrc773 wrote:
So, what about the Virgin Atlantic inflight masseur/masseuses? Are/were those full certified Flight Attendants? They wouldn't qualify for the crew visa either, if they're not trained as such.


They're presumably UK citizens so they wouldn't require a visa.

Thanks, I meant on flights outside of the UK, which I think it's most, if not all.

gunnerman wrote:
hrc773 wrote:
So, what about the Virgin Atlantic inflight masseur/masseuses? Are/were those full certified Flight Attendants? They wouldn't qualify for the crew visa either, if they're not trained as such.

My understanding is that they were recruited as beauty therapists and then given the same training as other crew in medical and safety & emergency procedures. So, they wouldn't serve food and drink as that was the job of cabin crew but in an emergency they could assist in evacuating passengers from the aircraft.

When the therapy service was axed in 2008 all 320 in-flight therapists were offered ground-based jobs or being retrained as cabin crew.

Thanks for the info; I wasn't sure if VS still had that on their flights.

FCAFLYBOY wrote:
hrc773 wrote:
So, what about the Virgin Atlantic inflight masseur/masseuses? Are/were those full certified Flight Attendants? They wouldn't qualify for the crew visa either, if they're not trained as such.


The VS beauty therapists were fully qualified crew, in terms of SEP/Safety and usually service too, and occupied jump seats as per main crew.

Thanks!

JannEejit wrote:
hrc773 wrote:
So, what about the Virgin Atlantic inflight masseur/masseuses? Are/were those full certified Flight Attendants? They wouldn't qualify for the crew visa either, if they're not trained as such.


But didn't Virgin withdraw that service years ago ? Quite possibly for similar reasons ?


I just learned they don't have that service any longer.
 
FCAFLYBOY
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:03 am

Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:02 pm

JannEejit wrote:
hrc773 wrote:
So, what about the Virgin Atlantic inflight masseur/masseuses? Are/were those full certified Flight Attendants? They wouldn't qualify for the crew visa either, if they're not trained as such.


But didn't Virgin withdraw that service years ago ? Quite possibly for similar reasons ?


They withdrew it in 2008 as mentioned above, but it was nothing to do with similar reasons, it was space onboard and economic. All crew had the right to live and work in the UK which has been a requirement for many years and still is.
 
tommer419
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:57 pm

Re: UK Bans Emirates First Class Shower Attendants

Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:15 am

edealinfo wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
The simple fix should be the hire a real, certified flight attendant for this position. Which seems to be what they're doing.

So, because the UK can’t handle it, Emirates needs to hire an overqualified person to clean the showers? At your office, do you also hire MBAs to do janitorial services?

I get what you mean, but I wouldn’t exactly consider FA’s to be the equivalent of MBAs in aviation.

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