bx737
Posts: 612
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 4:47 am

Re: Ryanair CEO claims that Norwegian will go bankrupt

Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:41 pm

The only problem is that Norwegian will have to prove they were libeled in a court, thus all of their financial records would have to be available to Ryanair in order that Ryanair could defend themselves. Norwegian would have to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that they were not in danger of collapse in order to prove that they were libeled. It will be interesting to see if they do attempt to sue for libel.
 
workhorse
Posts: 665
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:35 pm

Re: Ryanair CEO claims that Norwegian will go bankrupt

Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:08 pm

What? Again? He's been saying that two years ago already!

Can't he invent something new? I don't know, something like "Norwegian is run by the Illuminati" or "Norwegian uses child poo to fuel their aircraft" or whatever...
 
346fetish
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:00 am

Re: Ryanair CEO claims that Norwegian will go bankrupt

Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:54 pm

Just like when he said earlier this year the MAX would be back in the air by June/July.
"BA have got waterfalls in their head office. The only time we have waterfalls in the Ryanair office is when the toilet leaks."
 
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aemoreira1981
Posts: 3056
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Ryanair CEO claims that Norwegian will go bankrupt

Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:23 am

Ryanair really wants to expand the Buzz airline. I see Ryanair making a major bid for the short-haul operation (and Gatwick slots) should that happen, which could also be used to re-fleet Lauda with B738s instead of A320s for fleet commonality. This would also permit Ryanair to take on British Airways head-on at Gatwick, similar to how Ryanair is at Frankfurt's main airport now.
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 8094
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Ryanair CEO claims that Norwegian will go bankrupt

Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:14 am

bx737 wrote:
The only problem is that Norwegian will have to prove they were libeled in a court, thus all of their financial records would have to be available to Ryanair in order that Ryanair could defend themselves. Norwegian would have to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that they were not in danger of collapse in order to prove that they were libeled. It will be interesting to see if they do attempt to sue for libel.


It will be a civil case, so the burden of proof is "on the balance of probabilities" not "beyond reasonable doubt".

But yes, Ryanair would be sure to request access Norwegian's financial records during discovery. I'd expect Ryanair to glean every last nugget they can about Norwegian's weaknesses, and then immediately settle. Norwegian isn't stupid enough to give a competitor that opportunity.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 8094
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Ryanair CEO claims that Norwegian will go bankrupt

Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:17 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Ryanair really wants to expand the Buzz airline. I see Ryanair making a major bid for the short-haul operation (and Gatwick slots) should that happen, which could also be used to re-fleet Lauda with B738s instead of A320s for fleet commonality. This would also permit Ryanair to take on British Airways head-on at Gatwick, similar to how Ryanair is at Frankfurt's main airport now.


I expect Lauda will stay an A320 operator. It gives Ryanair a hedge against any future 737 issues and keeps Boeing's pricing honest if they can threaten to take their business to Airbus.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
mr02
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:51 pm

Re: Ryanair CEO claims that Norwegian will go bankrupt

Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:34 am

winginit wrote:
enilria wrote:
Of course talking down Norwegian benefits RyanAir, but I think we all know Norwegian is in some trouble. I’d be interested in knowing if they will get a compensation check from Boeing on the MAX?


Even if they were to get a compensation check from Boeing regarding the MAX, they'd be last in line no? If you're Boeing, and everyone is throwing litigation at you, are you going to pay the airline that's increasingly on the cusp of insolvency before those whose relationships you need to maintain to ensure future orders? Of course not. You'll pay WN and AA and UA and the like and then maybe you'll get around to Norwegian before they go bust.

Norwegian will inevitably collapse - they're now firmly on the AirBerlin / Jet Airways track - it's only a matter of time.

gatibosgru wrote:
Wishful thinking


State your claim - will Norwegian exist in 2021? I'll bet no.

Isn't Norwegian's intra-european routes profitable?
 
Someone83
Posts: 4569
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Ryanair CEO claims that Norwegian will go bankrupt

Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:44 am

mr02 wrote:
Isn't Norwegian's intra-european routes profitable?


Yes and no

Norway-Europe, yes, most likely Sweden-Europe too. While they probably have been losing money on other routes

Take a look where they have been shrinking and growing this fall. Even though their total traffic is down, they have kort adding capacity in Norway, while other European bases has been reduced
 
Blueknows
Posts: 382
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:31 am

Re: Ryanair CEO claims that Norwegian will go bankrupt

Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:48 am

Watch DY pivot next year. When the interline agreement with B6 kicks in spring /summer 2020. DY is already in process of mirroring B6 model. They are adding WiFi and plane transition. Don’t forget they also have a leasing arm of the business. You’ll see that grow very well in 2020.
 
Andy33
Posts: 2518
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

Re: Ryanair CEO claims that Norwegian will go bankrupt

Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:48 am

Mboyle1988 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
He’s right, but in the meantime he is exposing himself to a big fat lawsuit there as well.


In what jurisdiction, under what law?


UK has really awful libel laws. No such thing as free speech across the pond...


Yes, but Michael O'Leary is an Irish citizen and lives in Ireland. It is surely the Irish libel laws that are relevant, not the UK ones, unless he happened to be in the UK when he gave the interview?
 
Someone83
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Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Ryanair CEO claims that Norwegian will go bankrupt

Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:07 am

Blueknows wrote:
When the interline agreement with B6 kicks in spring /summer 2020.

'
Unless they change their TATL schedule, the JetBlue interline currently isn't that useful. LGW and AMS, yes, but the rest, not so much

Still, it isn't even implemented yet
 
armchairceonr1
Posts: 293
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:09 am

Re: Ryanair CEO claims that Norwegian will go bankrupt

Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:50 pm

Blueknows wrote:
Watch DY pivot next year. When the interline agreement with B6 kicks in spring /summer 2020. DY is already in process of mirroring B6 model. They are adding WiFi and plane transition. Don’t forget they also have a leasing arm of the business. You’ll see that grow very well in 2020.

Their leasing arm have zero planes right now, 30% owned JV will have 5 in the end of 2020. Their ASK is going to sink 10% next year, so they are not growing at all in 2020.
 
winginit
Posts: 2621
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Ryanair CEO claims that Norwegian will go bankrupt

Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:23 pm

Someone83 wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
When the interline agreement with B6 kicks in spring /summer 2020.

'
Unless they change their TATL schedule, the JetBlue interline currently isn't that useful. LGW and AMS, yes, but the rest, not so much

Still, it isn't even implemented yet


Not only is it not that useful, but it may only be barely financially advantageous for DY. The underlying financial agreement of those interline agreements involves a special prorate agreement where either set fees by route or mileage based tables are used to determine how much, for example, DY would have to pay B6 to connect a passenger onto BOS-XXX from DY's LGW-BOS (I'm making this example up).

In that B6 is likely the only carrier willing to play ball with DY and they have such a presence across BOS they'll likely large very lucrative prorates that, unless they're struggling to fill planes out of BOS, will need to be higher than what they can get from local PAX. That can take a huge chunk of out the revenue that DY collects for that ticket from LGW to XXX over BOS. Yes they can then get a passenger from to XXX whereas they couldn't but they'll likely pay for it when it comes to their TATL yield.

Interline agreements are not some magic bullet when you consider the financial settlement.

Blueknows wrote:
Don’t forget they also have a leasing arm of the business. You’ll see that grow very well in 2020.


Grow in the sense that today their leasing arm has exactly zero aircraft?

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