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mercure1
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Updated: IndiGo, Qatar Airways sign codeshare agreement

Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:25 am

Last edited by SQ22 on Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
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Ishrion
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:55 am

Merger.

But seriously... probably a stake to expand Qatar's global investment.
 
zionite
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:01 am

AAB has always openly said he's interested in getting a stake in Indigo.

My guess : Rakesh Gangwal selling his stake to Qatar.
 
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vhtje
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:15 am

Expect the 6E/TK codeshares to disappear fast then...
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
sibibom
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:35 am

A stake sale I suspect, codeshare would be anti-climatic!
 
YouGeeElWhy
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:57 am

If 9E did at DOH what SG is planning to do at RAK would 9E be able to fly DOH - DXB assuming the planes stay registered in India.
 
dredgy
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:00 am

YouGeeElWhy wrote:
If 9E did at DOH what SG is planning to do at RAK would 9E be able to fly DOH - DXB assuming the planes stay registered in India.


No. Even private flights between the two countries on foreign-registered aircraft aren't allowed.
 
xiaotung
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:13 am

What happened to the Indian domestic airline that QR was going to set up?
 
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Spiderguy252
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:23 am

QR can only gain from this.

There hasn't been an increase in bilaterals between Qatar and India since 2009 or so, and good ol' Al has been flying off the handle several times hankering for an increase in the allotment.
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:23 am

xiaotung wrote:
What happened to the Indian domestic airline that QR was going to set up?


What happened to the aircraft from the Saudi one too? Al Ma Ha or something? I recall even seeing them painted.

Oneworld could do with a Indian partner- although clearly the QR stake in LA wasn’t enough to keep them in Oneworld, nor the stake in IG to bring them in
 
smi0006
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:32 am

xiaotung wrote:
What happened to the Indian domestic airline that QR was going to set up?


What happened to the aircraft from the Saudi one too? Al Ma Ha or something? I recall even seeing them painted.

Oneworld could do with a Indian partner- although clearly the QR stake in LA wasn’t enough to keep them in Oneworld, nor the stake in IG to bring them in
 
xwb777
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:34 am

smi0006 wrote:
xiaotung wrote:
What happened to the Indian domestic airline that QR was going to set up?


What happened to the aircraft from the Saudi one too? Al Ma Ha or something? I recall even seeing them painted.

Oneworld could do with a Indian partner- although clearly the QR stake in LA wasn’t enough to keep them in Oneworld, nor the stake in IG to bring them in


The Saudi authorities has issued an AOC for Al Maha Airline to launch operations in the kingdom. Later, the authority cancelled the AOC as they saw that the plan was to funnel traffic through DOH. Al Maha aircraft then were transferred to QR.
 
edealinfo
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:32 pm

vhtje wrote:
Expect the 6E/TK codeshares to disappear fast then...


Why couldn't they run parallel with code shares with Turkish ? Qatar has a great relationship with Turkey. The last thing they would want to do is upset that delicate balance in their relationship.
 
edealinfo
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:38 pm

Spiderguy252 wrote:
QR can only gain from this.

There hasn't been an increase in bilaterals between Qatar and India since 2009 or so, and good ol' Al has been flying off the handle several times hankering for an increase in the allotment.


There are investigations into Qatar, Dubai, and Sharjah getting additional flying rights into India. My hunch is that the Indian Government will not increase rights to these countries/emirates until the investigations are over and the court passes judgement. Given that cases usually take years to get resolved in India's nightmarish-long court system, Qatar is making a good move now by partnering with Indigo.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/aviatio ... il-2111548
 
edealinfo
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:44 pm

Key speculation items:

1) While Rahul Bhatia cash out his stake to Qatar and if so, how much of a premium will he get over Indigo's stock price before the announcement.

2) Will Qatar be purchasing "new" shares in Indigo as opposed to buying it from someone else?

3) What stake will Qatar be purchasing? It needs at least 25% to be meaningful in Indian corporate law. 25% means that the company can't pass "special resolutions" (i.e., make big decisions), without Qatar consenting.

4) Rahul Bhatia owns 37% in Indigo. Maybe he will sell 25% and keep the balance 12%?

5) if this is only a codeshare agreement with no equity sale, I will be disappointed.
 
edealinfo
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:51 pm

there are now literally 100s of news stories but all are just versions of the Reuters story which doesn't have much information to begin with. The exception is the link below of a blogger who was kind enough to provide good context.

https://livefromalounge.boardingarea.co ... -alliance/
 
vadodara
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:53 pm

My sense is one of the partners will cash out. Not sure what that will require Qatar to do, i.e. make an offer in the Indian open market per regulations.

Either way, IndiGo's Istanbul experiment will end soon!
 
VTCIE
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:58 pm

edealinfo wrote:
there are now literally 100s of news stories but all are just versions of the Reuters story which doesn't have much information to begin with. The exception is the link below of a blogger who was kind enough to provide good context.

https://livefromalounge.boardingarea.co ... -alliance/

Ajay Awtaney is the only Indian blogger on BoardingArea, IIRC, and his opinion pieces are always insightful and well-explained, much like A.net member ameya’s articles for CNBC-TV18.
 
edealinfo
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:18 pm

vadodara wrote:

Assuming Qatar makes a bid for most if not all of 1 partner's shares, what does SEBI require Qatar to do in open market?



Answer: Purchase an additional 20% stake at a SEBI approved price but the total foreign carrier's equity stake can't exceed 49% and "control" must remain with an Indian.

If Qatar takes the whole 37% from Rahul Bhatia, it would run foul of laws since 37% + 20% = 57%.

What I suspect is that Qatar will buy 25% (or aim to buy 25%) of Rahul Bhatia's stake which gives Qatar enough of a stake to block "special resolutions" or major decisions, without its consent. Then it can buy an additional 20% for a total of max 45%.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:54 pm

I am totally mixed on this. The ME3 have such a poor record in developing airlines, I am unclear what Indigo will get out of this (and what India will get). Just flying India to DOH and then handing off to QR might work in the short run, but Indian airlines need a path forward on connecting India to the world (not to the ME). That said, if QR can help Indigo expand (maybe moving oldish WB planes to Indigo so they can cheaply launch long haul) then great. But EY's strategy with 9W where they essentially only allowed 9W to fly nonstop to LHR and then everything else going west should be through AUH was a fools errand (eastern flights were not affected). DL, IAG etc invest in airlines to help them grow (and hopefully be the dominant local airline) not be vassals of the investing airlines myopic selfish growth needs. That said, if Indigo grew a viable international network and then used the DOH hub to add frequency (meaning timing choices) and destinations that would never be flown nonstop from India (Dakar to just pick something random), then great. Let's see. Finally can you imagine flying QR from the US and then connecting in DOH to Indigo??? Who would ever pick that routing (other then lowest price people).
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:08 pm

Most amicable solution is for Qatar to take over Rakesh Gangwal's 37%. He can cash out of Indian aviation before India issues lookout notice. Most important, there would be no infighting.

Qatar proposed several times in the past and Indigo rejected it. When you are young you don't want to commit to a relationship and when you are old no one is interested. I think the time is right.

Indigo's Turkey plan turned into a cold turkey, so they definitely could use Doha hub.
All posts are just opinions.
 
edealinfo
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:24 pm

In order to avoid triggering the mandatory offer to buy 20% stake from the public, Qatar needs to purchase up to a max 15%. Maybe this is the route Qatar will take and Indigo can use the cash as down payment ("deposit" or whatever else it is called) towards the 300 planes it recently ordered from Airbus.
 
airboss787
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:29 pm

Hold your horses. It is just a codeshare according to Al Baker. There is no stake sale and no equity involved at all at this point.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 922129.cms
Last edited by airboss787 on Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:30 pm

Spiderguy252 wrote:
QR can only gain from this.

There hasn't been an increase in bilaterals between Qatar and India since 2009 or so, and good ol' Al has been flying off the handle several times hankering for an increase in the allotment.

There was an increase in 2015
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
edealinfo
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:44 pm

airboss787 wrote:
Hold your horses. It is just a codeshare according to Al Baker. There is no stake sale and no equity involved at all at this point.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 922129.cms


As the article itself points out, you are quoting what Al Baker said in "August 2019" - more than 60 days ago. Circumstance change. Have you not heard what happened in the last 2 weeks? Does LATAM DELTA AIR EUROPA and IAG ring a bell?
 
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:55 pm

Qatar Airways CEO says planned IndiGo tie-up is a code share accord, commercial deal. Al Baker says Qatar Air won't buy a stake in IndiGo.
 
edealinfo
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:56 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Most amicable solution is for Qatar to take over Rakesh Gangwal's 37%. He can cash out of Indian aviation before India issues lookout notice.


You are right. If those opposing Rahul Bhatia want to play dirty, and have enough political influence, they can always pull out the "lookout notice" card. That dude, who seems especially sharp about all things aviation related, needs to get his bearings on Indian politics.
 
edealinfo
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:57 pm

xwb777 wrote:
Qatar Airways CEO says planned IndiGo tie-up is a code share accord, commercial deal. Al Baker says Qatar Air won't buy a stake in IndiGo.


Yeah, we know he said this in Aug 2019. Is that what he is also saying NOW?
 
airboss787
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:00 pm

edealinfo wrote:
airboss787 wrote:
Hold your horses. It is just a codeshare according to Al Baker. There is no stake sale and no equity involved at all at this point.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 922129.cms


As the article itself points out, you are quoting what Al Baker said in "August 2019" - more than 60 days ago. Circumstance change. Have you not heard what happened in the last 2 weeks? Does LATAM DELTA AIR EUROPA and IAG ring a bell?


I would suggest to still hold your horses though. This should be recent enough for you.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... from-india
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airboss787
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:01 pm

edealinfo wrote:
xwb777 wrote:
Qatar Airways CEO says planned IndiGo tie-up is a code share accord, commercial deal. Al Baker says Qatar Air won't buy a stake in IndiGo.


Yeah, we know he said this in Aug 2019. Is that what he is also saying NOW?


Yes, that is exactly what he is saying as of Tuesday, which is today.
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vadodara
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:33 pm

QR has a whole host of narrow bodies sitting at DOH because of embargo; it would have made sense for them to start an airline in India to get those planes to fly again.
 
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:45 pm

edealinfo wrote:
5) if this is only a codeshare agreement with no equity sale, I will be disappointed.


Why does Indigo need to get rid of equity though? With 9W circa 2013, the company was on its knees and had large debts alongside a major cash flow issue that Etihad helped postpone by half a decade.

Indigo is in no such situation. If anything, the more desperate party here is QR.
Vahroone
 
edealinfo
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:27 pm

airboss787 wrote:

I would suggest to still hold your horses though. This should be recent enough for you.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... from-india


Thank you! Horses held and sent back to the stable!
 
edealinfo
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:36 pm

vadodara wrote:
QR has a whole host of narrow bodies sitting at DOH because of embargo; it would have made sense for them to start an airline in India to get those planes to fly again.


Starting in India:
For QR airline based in India, it first needs to satisfy the 0/20 requirement which, among other things, requires a fleet of 20 aircraft to be deployed domestically in India (where they will be beaten by the competition). They can use the 21st flight onwards to fly the aircraft to Doha and only 20% of overall seat miles can be used internationally (say, to fly to Doha) while the remaining 80% must be deployed in India, where among other things, QR-India will have to follow RDS or RGD which requires it to fly to Tier 3 non-viable cities.

When Naresh Goyal or Jet schemed to prevent competition, he really knew what he was doing in conjuring these crazy rule. Too bad that even after Jet collapsed the crazy 0/20 rule still remains in effect since all the existing carriers now support it because it blocks competition from any new airline!
 
GalebG4
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:38 pm

Code share plus most probably investment in Indigo. These might mean for Indigo transfer of some Qatari 787’s to Indigo future long haul fleet plus a lot more Indigo flights to second and third tier cities in India from Doha. Great move done by Qatar by getting rid of some 787 orders and making Doha hub even more important. Remember Air Italy Qatari investment move and plans!
 
airboss787
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:39 pm

edealinfo wrote:
airboss787 wrote:

I would suggest to still hold your horses though. This should be recent enough for you.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... from-india


Thank you! Horses held and sent back to the stable!


:bigthumbsup: let us see what happens on Nov 7. Al Baker is known to say and do different things.
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edealinfo
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:42 pm

GalebG4 wrote:
Remember Air Italy Qatari investment move and plans!


Could you please elaborate?
 
VTORD
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:46 pm

IF AAB is on the record that it's not a stake sale, then why "invite" people to a press conference for something that could have been accomplished by a press release? Unless they are announcing a UA-LH-NH type JV. Now that would be interesting. I have a feeling this has got anti-climax in it's future. Onto the 7th then....
 
GalebG4
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:57 pm

edealinfo wrote:
GalebG4 wrote:
Remember Air Italy Qatari investment move and plans!


Could you please elaborate?

No ;)
After rebranding of the airline as Air Italy, Boeing 737 aircraft previously operated by Meridiana were initially used to operate the airline's route network. Air Italy planned to develop its fleet by operating 50 new aircraft by 2022, through sub-leasing 20 Boeing 737 MAX 8s and 30 Boeing 787-8s from Qatar Airways, with entry into service between 2018 and 2022. From 2018 to 2019, Qatar Airways planned to lease five of its own Airbus A330-200s to Air Italy at market rate, with Boeing 787-8s transferred to Air Italy from mid-2019 after the delivery of Boeing 787-9s to Qatar Airways during the same period.
https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... -air-italy
 
edealinfo
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:06 pm

VTORD wrote:
IF AAB is on the record that it's not a stake sale, then why "invite" people to a press conference for something that could have been accomplished by a press release? Unless they are announcing a UA-LH-NH type JV. Now that would be interesting. I have a feeling this has got anti-climax in it's future. Onto the 7th then....


Because the 50+ 24/7 TV news channels and gazillion of Indian newspapers will give AAB and Indigo giant loads of free publicity that a press release ordinarily couldn't.

They will milk this event dry.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:44 pm

GalebG4 wrote:
Code share plus most probably investment in Indigo. These might mean for Indigo transfer of some Qatari 787’s to Indigo future long haul fleet plus a lot more Indigo flights to second and third tier cities in India from Doha. Great move done by Qatar by getting rid of some 787 orders and making Doha hub even more important. Remember Air Italy Qatari investment move and plans!


We are now referencing Air Italy... I hope anything they do with Indigo is much better than Air Italy. That strategy fizzled (or failed depending who you ask). Indigo will be fine running narrow bodies form India to DOH. If they get 787, it should be for long haul. Hopefully AB has learnt a lesson from his and EY's "great" investment strategies. I'm wish for the best but am not expecting much. But transferring oldish 787 to Inigo is a backdoor way of boosting them without investing more officially (as are cheap LHR leases).
 
edealinfo
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:24 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
I am totally mixed on this. The ME3 have such a poor record in developing airlines, I am unclear what Indigo will get out of this (and what India will get). Just flying India to DOH and then handing off to QR might work in the short run, but Indian airlines need a path forward on connecting India to the world (not to the ME). That said, if QR can help Indigo expand (maybe moving oldish WB planes to Indigo so they can cheaply launch long haul) then great. But EY's strategy with 9W where they essentially only allowed 9W to fly nonstop to LHR and then everything else going west should be through AUH was a fools errand (eastern flights were not affected). DL, IAG etc invest in airlines to help them grow (and hopefully be the dominant local airline) not be vassals of the investing airlines myopic selfish growth needs. That said, if Indigo grew a viable international network and then used the DOH hub to add frequency (meaning timing choices) and destinations that would never be flown nonstop from India (Dakar to just pick something random), then great. Let's see. Finally can you imagine flying QR from the US and then connecting in DOH to Indigo??? Who would ever pick that routing (other then lowest price people).


On the Indigo - QR deal, I know this is good for QR, very good [especially since they can't get more market access to India]. But, I don't get why Indigo needs QR. What's in it for them? or is Indigo just desperate to get into a relationship with a long haul carrier since its Turkish expedition has clearly failed (with the Indian Government shutting the door on additional flying rights between Turkey and India).
 
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lightsaber
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:35 am

edealinfo wrote:
VTORD wrote:
IF AAB is on the record that it's not a stake sale, then why "invite" people to a press conference for something that could have been accomplished by a press release? Unless they are announcing a UA-LH-NH type JV. Now that would be interesting. I have a feeling this has got anti-climax in it's future. Onto the 7th then....


Because the 50+ 24/7 TV news channels and gazillion of Indian newspapers will give AAB and Indigo giant loads of free publicity that a press release ordinarily couldn't.

They will milk this event dry.

LoL. Yes, this is free advertising for a press release.

6E dives into the profitable international market by helping feed QR instead of Jet. :yawn:


Lightsaber
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VTCIE
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:08 am

The codeshare is only on flights from DOH to DEL, BOM and HYD. Missed opportunity, perhaps? BLR would have been a no-brainer, possibly MAA as well.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ma ... 950855.cms
 
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Spiderguy252
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:08 am

It's just a codeshare?

Much ado about nothing.
Vahroone
 
sibibom
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:56 am

Codeshare on 3 routes? Geez it's not even worth the 5star ballroom they hired for this announcement
 
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Spiderguy252
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:10 pm

sibibom wrote:
Codeshare on 3 routes? Geez it's not even worth the 5star ballroom they hired for this announcement


And it's not even both sides of the route. eg: the codeshare is from DOH-DEL but not from DEL-DOH

Desperate QR are desperate.
Vahroone
 
VTORD
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Re: IndiGo - Qatar to make “strategic” announcement Nov. 7

Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:27 pm

Spiderguy252 wrote:

Desperate QR are desperate.

Desperate QR doing desperate PR!!! :lol:
 
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MoKa777
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Re: Updated: IndiGo, Qatar Airways sign codeshare agreement

Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:56 pm

Henceforth, I am unable to can with QR and their announcements....
Never be proud. Always be grateful.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Updated: IndiGo, Qatar Airways sign codeshare agreement

Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:06 pm

That's it after all the hype. Sooo Rachel Maddow.
All posts are just opinions.

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