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FromCDGtoSYD
Posts: 384
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Re: KLM to retire A330's by 2025, to become all Boeing airline

Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:59 am

Momo1435 wrote:

Will AF retire their 777Ws early? I very much doubt that AF will become Airbus only within the next 10 years. As the 77W replacement is still a very open book you simply cannot make any definitive statements about it at this moment.


I doubt AF would become a fully Airbus airline, ultimately they could have say a subfleet of 777-9 to replace the 4 class 777 and A380. This would serve as a path for promotion also, something the unions insist on having. The rest of the fleet could be focused around the A350/A330 family. I guess the 787 also has a place here but this could simplify the fleet to 2 cockpits just like at KLM.

Its gonna take some time though, if I recall correctly, AF continued taking new 77Ws until 2015
 
inkjet7
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Re: KLM to retire A330's by 2025, to become all Boeing airline

Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:01 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Focussing 787s at KLM and A350s at Air France just makes more sense at the moment.


I think Mr. Smith hinted that AF/KL is waiting for best offers from A and B to replace A380's and other planes. AF will either go for A or B. If B wins AF will get more Dreamliners to enable AF pilots to fly them enough to use the common type rating. If A wins they might transfer the B787's to KL. Their configuration is almost the same as KL's. The main differences are the economy comfort/plus sections and the branding. KL will definitely get more 787's to replace their A330's. So it's all up to the OEM's now.
 
VSMUT
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Re: KLM to retire A330's by 2025, to become all Boeing airline

Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:55 pm

inkjet7 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
Focussing 787s at KLM and A350s at Air France just makes more sense at the moment.


I think Mr. Smith hinted that AF/KL is waiting for best offers from A and B to replace A380's and other planes. AF will either go for A or B. If B wins AF will get more Dreamliners to enable AF pilots to fly them enough to use the common type rating. If A wins they might transfer the B787's to KL. Their configuration is almost the same as KL's. The main differences are the economy comfort/plus sections and the branding. KL will definitely get more 787's to replace their A330's. So it's all up to the OEM's now.


Neither is going full A or B in the long term. The A350 can't replace the A330-200 at Air France, and the 787 can't replace the 777 at KLM.

BTW, if you didn't notice earlier in the year, there was a dispute about, among other things, ordering of aircraft, and it was pretty clear that central management wants a more common fleet across the group.
 
inkjet7
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Re: KLM to retire A330's by 2025, to become all Boeing airline

Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:20 pm

VSMUT wrote:

Neither is going full A or B in the long term. The A350 can't replace the A330-200 at Air France, and the 787 can't replace the 777 at KLM.

AF might take a combination of A330 and A350 for now. One-for-one replacement is an a.net doctrine ;-). KL could order 777x if they need to replace 777's.
 
EddieDude
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Re: KLM to retire A330's by 2025, to become all Boeing airline

Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:39 pm

inkjet7 wrote:
I think Mr. Smith hinted that AF/KL is waiting for best offers from A and B to replace A380's and other planes. AF will either go for A or B.

If I am not mistaken, when AF announced they were sending all A359s to AF and most of the incoming 789s to KL (same time as the A220 announcement), the CEO was quoted as saying that the A350 as an A380 replacement seemed somewhat expensive. I would imagine that negotiations with Airbus are currently underway and pricing is probably the most important issue.

Does anyone know when an order to replace the A380s is expected?
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inkjet7
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Re: KLM to retire A330's by 2025, to become all Boeing airline

Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:20 pm

I guess they'll be looking at replacing KL's A330's too. AF/KL is usually not very quick ordering new planes.
 
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Momo1435
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Re: KLM to retire A330's by 2025, to become all Boeing airline

Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:22 pm

EddieDude wrote:
inkjet7 wrote:
I think Mr. Smith hinted that AF/KL is waiting for best offers from A and B to replace A380's and other planes. AF will either go for A or B.

If I am not mistaken, when AF announced they were sending all A359s to AF and most of the incoming 789s to KL (same time as the A220 announcement), the CEO was quoted as saying that the A350 as an A380 replacement seemed somewhat expensive. I would imagine that negotiations with Airbus are currently underway and pricing is probably the most important issue.

Does anyone know when an order to replace the A380s is expected?

It was mentioned in some media that they found the A350-1000 specifically too expensive as a A380 replacement and that the A330neo and the 787 were in contention for a replacement order. But other articles did mention that the A350 was an option, but that could always be more A359s. With the most recent information it does look like it's going to be between or both the 787 and A350 (no version specified) for this order. They just stated that they are still studying what aircraft is most suitable to replace the A380. So it doesn't look like they already made a decision, so I don't expect a quick order announcement. But anything is possible of course.

Recent interview with the AF CEO with some info on the possible future AF fleet:
https://www.airlineratings.com/news/air ... rone-a380/
 
BML87
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Re: KLM to retire A330's by 2025, to become all Boeing airline

Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:42 pm

YEG will finally get the 787
 
EddieDude
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Re: KLM to retire A330's by 2025, to become all Boeing airline

Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:48 pm

Thanks for the link Momo1435. Very interesting.

If AF orders more A359s (for example) to make up for the retirement of the A380s, I am sure they will be able to fine tune their aircraft allocation so that "four-class, high-J" 77Ws take some of the A380 routes, and then A359s take over some 77E and 77W routes, etc. I believe their 77W fleet is quite large, relatively young and has different density configurations..
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leftcoast8
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Re: KLM to retire A330's by 2025, to become all Boeing airline

Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:48 pm

What will replace the winter 333s to YVR? 789, 772 or 77W?
 
Airbusfan29
Posts: 71
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Re: KLM to retire A330's by 2025, to become all Boeing airline

Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:54 pm

AMS18C36C wrote:
What I’m curious about: how much life do the oldest KLM 737NG’s have left in them?
Also, KLM is still deciding on whether or not to install Y+. When can we expect a decision on that?


What is Y+?
 
steeler83
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Re: KLM to retire A330's by 2025, to become all Boeing airline

Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:51 pm

What is the time frame for KL retiring their remaining 744s, 2021, 2022?
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
76er
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Re: KLM to retire A330's by 2025, to become all Boeing airline

Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:55 pm

Airbusfan29 wrote:

What is Y+?


Premium Economy.
 
FB330
Posts: 110
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Re: KLM to retire A330's by 2025, to become all Boeing airline

Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:13 pm

747s will be gone by early 2021. 9 left flying today; one more to go before the end of the year.
 
Airbusfan29
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Re: KLM to retire A330's by 2025, to become all Boeing airline

Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:19 am

Is the A350 something KLM could at least consider to replace their 777s?
 
CHRISBA35X
Posts: 200
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Re: KLM to retire A330's by 2025, to become all Boeing airline

Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:49 am

Airbusfan29 wrote:
Is the A350 something KLM could at least consider to replace their 777s?


Nope they rejected it out of hand and passed the ones they were supposed to be taking over to AF, who are indeed replacing their 777s etc with them.

When KL replace their 772s it will be with 789/78J metal. We are unlikely to see another Airbus in the blue for a loooooong time. KL prefer Boeing,

The 77W replacements wont be with an Airbus either. Potentially we may see some 779Xs but only a small number to take over the 77Ws when the time comes but that's not going to be for many many years yet.
 
76er
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Re: KLM to retire A330's by 2025, to become all Boeing airline

Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:37 am

Since the oldest 77W is only 11 years old with 2 more on order we will this type stick around for at about another 15 to 20 years or so. Besides, the A35X is wayyy to comfy for KL standards. :stirthepot:
 
Sokes
Posts: 1632
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: KLM to retire A330's by 2025, to become all Boeing airline

Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:46 pm

I assume it all depends how the B777-9 will perform.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
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Momo1435
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Re: KLM to retire A330's by 2025, to become all Boeing airline

Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:34 pm

CHRISBA35X wrote:
Airbusfan29 wrote:
Is the A350 something KLM could at least consider to replace their 777s?


Nope they rejected it out of hand and passed the ones they were supposed to be taking over to AF, who are indeed replacing their 777s etc with them.

When KL replace their 772s it will be with 789/78J metal. We are unlikely to see another Airbus in the blue for a loooooong time. KL prefer Boeing,

The 77W replacements wont be with an Airbus either. Potentially we may see some 779Xs but only a small number to take over the 77Ws when the time comes but that's not going to be for many many years yet.

KLM did not reject the A350, it was the holding that decided that all A350 would go to AF and that KLM would get more 787 instead. But with the recent decission to reduce the number of cockpits at both KLM and AF it's indeed unlikelt that they will get Airbus widebodies to replace the A330s and 77Es.

As for he 777X, it has been rumored that KLM has looked at the plane as an option to replace the 77E, which would mean a serious jump upwards in capacity. But for now no decission has beem made and the 777X was not mentioned in the most recent fleet plans that were the reason why this topic was opened. Taking more 787s is the most likely option right now.

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