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codc10
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:09 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
codc10 wrote:
It's a very nicely presented service and I give Delta credit for innovation and spin. But internal rumors are that this is actually a cost savings for Delta, since most caterers charge airlines for tray setups, where more items on the tray = higher cost. This actually reduces the galley packout, saving money. Cutting one pass of the bar cart is another area to save costs.

Entrees are boarded the same way (in oven carriers) but the rest of the service items (utensils/placements, plates, appetizers, etc.) are loaded in bulk, saving space and cost. Flight attendants I've spoken to are less than ambivalent about the new service simply because it's much more labor-intensive, with more passes through the cabin,and more work for galley flight attendants.

Delta looks at it as a win-win because it reduces catering costs while putting FAs in the aisle more often, which is tied to NPS. It will be interesting to see how this works out.


Thank you for a balanced and reasonable post, that provides additional context without the blantant fanboyism or hater bias.

I'm also curious about the timing of service and the various passes, particularly on some of the shorter, red-eye TATL flights.


The people I spoke to reported that the service is definitely longer from start-to-finish, which is clearly less of a issue on daytime TPACs. I assume the company hopes the pace will improve once FAs get used to it, but for the start, expect a longer service, with more foot traffic, and longer period of time with lights on. I wouldn't be surprised to see some modifications to the late night/shorter TATL service.

UA did something similar a few years ago, moving to a smaller tray design with fewer items on the setup, and a separate dessert service loaded in bulk. It it still a longer service than what it replaced (not by much, but longer) and has been tweaked a bit following FA feedback. The objective was catering cost savings and spun the same way: as an improvement to pax experience.
 
EBiafore99
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:17 pm

kimimm19 wrote:
Are people so gullable?

This is pretty much what United started doing... Basically it's taking what they've done for the most part already and deconstructing it.

So what you have instead of getting the pig with the lipstick already on, the lipstick comes after you've received the pig.

I'm prefer Delta in comparison to the other US3 but this is no upgrade... They should focus on less cramped cabins in their new A350s.


I don't think it's fair to compare DL to UA on this one. Yes, UA did this a while ago, but UA also cut the mid-flight snack on longer flights when they rolled out its new service. The mid-flight snack was replaced with snack boxes for purchase. That went over so well that UA brought back the free mid-flight snack on longer flights.

Also, DL is providing a welcome cocktail. UA did not (and still does not) provide any cocktails free of charge in Y. It's only house beer and wine.

I'm pretty sure DL is not cutting the mid-flight snack or pre-arrival meal. They are too smart for that - and that type of news would degrade the DL brand, which DL certainly does not want. DL commands a premium in the marketplace because they run a good airline. They aren't going to do anything to jeopardize that (at least knowingly).
 
USAirALB
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:18 pm

I’m confused why folks keep comparing this to UA’s service.

UA didn’t and still does not offer a choice of starters in Y. The service originally was supposed to be “three course” with a cheese and crackers pass with the first beverage service, but the cheese and crackers has been eliminating in favor of pretzels/snack mix. So on UA, you get pretzels with your first drink, then meal service with salad and hot main course plus bread, then dessert afterwards.

UA also does not provide free snacks (outside of a sandwich on the longest intercontinental flights) in long haul Y, as AA and DL do, having a BOB menu instead. AA and DL both have little snack stations in their Y galleys on long haul.
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ASFlyer
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:23 pm

panamair wrote:
Today:
All on one tray: roll, salad, cheese and crackers, main course (with choice), dessert
Later: coffee, tea etc

Future:
All at once: roll, larger appetizer (with choice), larger main course (with choice)
Later: dessert, coffee, tea, etc.

So only loss would be the cheese and crackers, 'replaced' by larger portion sizes for the appetizer and main course.

And of course the other bells and whistles - post-takeoff bellinis, placemats for the main meal service, etc.


So there will still be a salad course and the pre-meal full bar service with beverage snack?
 
panamair
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:47 pm

ASFlyer wrote:
So there will still be a salad course and the pre-meal full bar service with beverage snack?


Not sure how the drinks will run but I was referring to the main meal service. Today, there is only a salad serving as the 'appetizer' on the tray, not both an appetizer and a salad. So there will still be an appetizer in the future, (and I believe one of the appetizer options will be a salad) except now there will be a choice - probably a salad option and a non-salad option.
 
airzona11
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:05 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
questions wrote:
Since a lot of corporate international flyers have to fly Y, does DL’s ability to demonstrate a more desirable Y experience (real or perceived) have any impact on its ability to sign more corporate contracts?


Wouldn't know, but why would corporate contracts worry about minor (in the grand scheme of things) enhancements to long-haul Y service? You'd think schedule/network, performance, and service, among other things, would easily trump a placemat or hot towel.

airzona11 wrote:
They have monetized the Y changes. Look at their financials. The A350 J is as best as their is. Their earning on par if not better than other carriers in J. Their financials don’t support any of your assertions.


Their financials don't support your assertions either, and your assertion is dependent on evidence in the financials. Mine is not. It can be accurate with or without an aggregate profit advantage. Using aggregate financial figures is inadequate to prove your assertions.


In other words, you didn’t look or choose not to. Their PRASM leads the pack. Their Margin leads the pack. Yet it isn’t because their costs dramatically lower, in fact they have higher raw dollar CASM. This seems to show they command a premium.
 
mawelsh
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:12 pm

Will they expand to Hawaii flights? DTW-HNL is longer than DTW-(fill in European city here)
 
cokepopper
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:14 pm

Full beverage service with meal.
And full beverage service prior to landing.
 
toobz
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:21 pm

haha omg how the saaaame people will always turn a positive change into a negative. It’s ok - we already know who you all are *wink wink*. DL is by far better than most European carries when flying in Y. Ive flown VS BA AY SK LH in the past year along with DL and hands down DL wins. Great crew, IFE and constantly were going down the aisles offering something. The people who have something negative to say obviously are biased and have not and do not fly DL. At least as of recent years. It’s not by accident or luck that they post the numbers they did once again today.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:43 pm

kiowa wrote:
An improvement would be less cramped seating on delta.


Among the US3, Delta likely has the roomiest seats in Y on internationally-configured planes (31" minimum pitch, manufacturer-recommended seat pitch). The B752s are just 17.2", but that plane isn't wide enough to support a width beyond 17.3"; everything else is 17.9" or greater. and the B77E/L planes are keeping 3-3-3 in Y.) The main issue is not having power all the way in Y; Y should be fully with USB ports while Y+ has the power ports.
 
MatthewDB
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:51 pm

afgeneral wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
kiowa wrote:
An improvement would be less cramped seating on delta.


Space on an aircraft costs serious money. People who want to pay for it have First/Business and Comfort+ and/or Premium Select on over 90% of DL/DL Connection aircraft. Modest improvements in long-haul coach meal service (greatly overdue, IMHO), not so much $.


I'd happily pay 50% more for 50% more space. I'd even pay 75% more. The problem is they want to charge 500% more for 50% more space.


As someone who does pay more, I agree completely. I'm traveling later this month in Y+ outbound and F inbound on my dime. F, J and Y+ are profit centers for the airline and the cost escalates like crazy, particularly on the very long flights. My employer will pay for Y+ and getting that is often hard. It usually sells out before Y. Because of the ridiculous cost, my employer cut J tickets altogether in 2013. Before that we could qualify based on the number of trips.

I strongly believe that the airlines are hesitant on Y+ because they think it cuts into the profits of J.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:54 pm

airzona11 wrote:
In other words, you didn’t look or choose not to. Their PRASM leads the pack. Their Margin leads the pack. Yet it isn’t because their costs dramatically lower, in fact they have higher raw dollar CASM. This seems to show they command a premium.


You wish. I study all US carrier's financial results closely and read executive's comments on them (and yes, DL has a significant cost advantage over some of their competitors as well). Their is no evidence (beyond completely circumstantial) to support your assertion that DL is able to monetize long-haul Y traffic. There are dozens of reasons why a carrier can have a higher PRASM or margin. The hard part is to find out exactly why. Commanding a revenue premium for long-haul Y is very difficult (to impossible) to do due to it being a near-commodity product, and it's even more tough to prove. We need international fare data to start making some theories, and I don't know of that being readily available.
 
MatthewDB
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:05 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
questions wrote:
Since a lot of corporate international flyers have to fly Y, does DL’s ability to demonstrate a more desirable Y experience (real or perceived) have any impact on its ability to sign more corporate contracts?


Wouldn't know, but why would corporate contracts worry about minor (in the grand scheme of things) enhancements to long-haul Y service? You'd think schedule/network, performance, and service, among other things, would easily trump a placemat or hot towel.


My employer lets us rate carriers and it does weigh into who they partner with. The interesting one was signing up with Southwest. They communicated when the decision was announced that there was a very vocal minority that really loved them so they were added as an option. It did kind of create an issue as Southwest was always the lowest fare so they modified the rules such that Southwest's price didn't count in the margin we were allowed on ticket purchases.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:30 pm

Junction wrote:
Sounds similar to KLM main cabin service. Coincidence?

Hmmm.. consistent product for Joint ventures... Hmmm...

That truly allows metal neutral service.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
airzona11
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:01 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
In other words, you didn’t look or choose not to. Their PRASM leads the pack. Their Margin leads the pack. Yet it isn’t because their costs dramatically lower, in fact they have higher raw dollar CASM. This seems to show they command a premium.


You wish. I study all US carrier's financial results closely and read executive's comments on them (and yes, DL has a significant cost advantage over some of their competitors as well). Their is no evidence (beyond completely circumstantial) to support your assertion that DL is able to monetize long-haul Y traffic. There are dozens of reasons why a carrier can have a higher PRASM or margin. The hard part is to find out exactly why. Commanding a revenue premium for long-haul Y is very difficult (to impossible) to do due to it being a near-commodity product, and it's even more tough to prove. We need international fare data to start making some theories, and I don't know of that being readily available.


If it is nearly a commodity product, which I agree, yet their revenue and margin are higher, with also having higher costs, that means they are earning a premium. If they earned less, they wouldn't have a premium, and if they earned the same, they wouldn't have a premium. They do not have larger premium cabins than AA or UA, they have the same if not smaller. They most certainly are earning a premium.

Turning the question around, if they were not earning a premium, why would they keep 9across 777s and why would they invest in the hard and soft product. AA, for example, isn't earning a premium, and they are making Y cabins larger and denser.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:00 pm

airzona11 wrote:
If it is nearly a commodity product, which I agree, yet their revenue and margin are higher, with also having higher costs, that means they are earning a premium. If they earned less, they wouldn't have a premium, and if they earned the same, they wouldn't have a premium. They do not have larger premium cabins than AA or UA, they have the same if not smaller. They most certainly are earning a premium.

Turning the question around, if they were not earning a premium, why would they keep 9across 777s and why would they invest in the hard and soft product. AA, for example, isn't earning a premium, and they are making Y cabins larger and denser.


The big question isn't if they are earning a PRASM premium. The question is how. One can earn a higher PRASM with an all economy airline versus one with all business seating, for example. Market forces are by far the largest driver of revenue premiums. I also think it's inaccurate to say that DL has higher costs, when they're on the low end of the cost scale.

Why would they keep 3-3-3 777s? Could be for a few reasons. One could be a real or perceived fare premium. Another is that their 777s are already very dense. They may not see a need for more seats. Also performance issues come into play with ultra-long-haul routes such as JNB-ATL. More weight is an issue.

Investments in products aren't only a by-product of success. It could be that DL is trying to catch up to competitors. Maybe they want to keep up with the Joneses. The only fair assumption to make is that the changes are intended to bring more profit (as speculated the gain with these changes may be more on the cost side) to the airline than if no change was made. It doesn't only imply that they are earning a revenue premium with it.
 
tonystan
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:54 pm

FlyHappy wrote:
tonystan wrote:
I can’t believe how easily pleased you all are. This offering is just awful. And to think Americans come on the likes of BA and complain! And is there really no second service? Just a hot towel and a tiny piece of chocolate?

Wow!


I am decades out of first hand experience, but reputationally, it seems to me that BA Y long haul is widely criticized. Am I wrong?
The volume of service is directly related to the length of the flight - nothing new at all, and this change changes none of that.

Is there something about adding a pre-flight drink, hot towels, a seperate dessert service and a small chocolate prior to landing either a) bother you in some way or b) indicate that something is being subtracted?
In what way is BA's Y service better?


Well ok, let’s take my flight today for example. LHR-SFO. Flight time set at 10:25.

Complimentary bar round immediately after take off including pretzels and alcoholic beverages.
Meal service with choice of wine. The meal tray is a full size tray including a salad dish, desert, bottle of water, cheese & crackers, choice of hot meal, tea/coffee round. Once service is complete regular juice rounds and of course the bar remains open throughout the flight and remains complimentary.

Half way through the flight about 5 hours in a Magnum Ice cream is offered. Also an opportunity to request more drinks. 1:30 prior to landing another service including a meal tray with water and a small hot meal choice, usually a pizza or calzone slice. Includes hot beverage and additional drinks available upon request.

Let’s put it this way, it’s a pretty hefty offering even for the average American.

The posted article at the start of this thread would not entice me to fly DL. It is either missing huge chunks of the service or is being left hopelessly vague.
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:58 pm

Interesting changes implemented by DL. It’s too bad the first bar service has been downgraded to bellinis served en masse, but limiting drink choices is the trend. I was shocked that BA only serves coffee, tea, juice and still water for its second meal service, which I suppose makes up their afternoon “tea” which is half a sandwich thrown at you without a tray. For DL, I would be more impressed if they upgraded their breakfast in Y, but then they’d be doing more than everyone else, and they couldn’t have that.
 
global1
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:20 am

Check back next spring.

I predict Delta will post higher customer satisfaction scores than BA, as does our sister airline, Virgin Atlantic.
 
LDRA
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:28 am

I just want more leg room, lower pressure altitude, more humid air.

I don't really mind bring my own meal on board.
 
airzona11
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:02 am

MSPNWA wrote:
Investments in products aren't only a by-product of success. It could be that DL is trying to catch up to competitors. Maybe they want to keep up with the Joneses. The only fair assumption to make is that the changes are intended to bring more profit (as speculated the gain with these changes may be more on the cost side) to the airline than if no change was made. It doesn't only imply that they are earning a revenue premium with it.


So we agree, Delta is touting increases in service, to earn more profit. They do this by earning more revenue.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:56 am

tonystan wrote:
I can’t believe how easily pleased you all are. This offering is just awful. And to think Americans come on the likes of BA and complain! And is there really no second service? Just a hot towel and a tiny piece of chocolate?

Wow!


Why not do reasearch before posting and looking ignorant?.

What exactly is awful about DLs offering? Is it the fact that they've kept their 777s in a 3x3x3 config? Or that they now offer an additional drink service with a free cocktail? Is it the larger entrees and options of appetizer? Is it the free amenity kit in Y? Maybe it is the friendly DL service. And yes, there is a second service. Sheesh.
Last edited by gatibosgru on Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
@DadCelo
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:01 am

KSAAirliner wrote:
How come Delta claims to be the first to introduce such a service when Saudia had it since 2017 !


Shocking thing about companies and marketing, they lie. "BEST IN CLASS" "MOST RELIABLE" "FASTEST AND MOST DURABLE".
@DadCelo
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:36 am

tonystan wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
tonystan wrote:
I can’t believe how easily pleased you all are. This offering is just awful. And to think Americans come on the likes of BA and complain! And is there really no second service? Just a hot towel and a tiny piece of chocolate?

Wow!


I am decades out of first hand experience, but reputationally, it seems to me that BA Y long haul is widely criticized. Am I wrong?
The volume of service is directly related to the length of the flight - nothing new at all, and this change changes none of that.

Is there something about adding a pre-flight drink, hot towels, a seperate dessert service and a small chocolate prior to landing either a) bother you in some way or b) indicate that something is being subtracted?
In what way is BA's Y service better?


Well ok, let’s take my flight today for example. LHR-SFO. Flight time set at 10:25.

Complimentary bar round immediately after take off including pretzels and alcoholic beverages.
Meal service with choice of wine. The meal tray is a full size tray including a salad dish, desert, bottle of water, cheese & crackers, choice of hot meal, tea/coffee round. Once service is complete regular juice rounds and of course the bar remains open throughout the flight and remains complimentary.

Half way through the flight about 5 hours in a Magnum Ice cream is offered. Also an opportunity to request more drinks. 1:30 prior to landing another service including a meal tray with water and a small hot meal choice, usually a pizza or calzone slice. Includes hot beverage and additional drinks available upon request.

Let’s put it this way, it’s a pretty hefty offering even for the average American.

The posted article at the start of this thread would not entice me to fly DL. It is either missing huge chunks of the service or is being left hopelessly vague.


huh. nothing you've described (I assume this is BA) sounds unsual to me at all, with the possible exceptions of wine choice (beyond red or wine, I assume) and the "Magnum Ice cream". I mean, are you thinking of the long haul LCC's (like Norwegian) or something? what you've described is what I've experienced from every mainstream long haul carrier from every continent for decades.

btw, I have asked for, and received entire second meals in Y (like right after the cabin has been fully served) on US carriers. Not because the pressed duck was oh-so-exquisite, but because I was particularly hungry at that moment. I didn't really think anyone would find that to be a big deal, but maybe you would.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:38 am

airzona11 wrote:
So we agree, Delta is touting increases in service, to earn more profit. They do this by earning more revenue.

Unfortunately we don't fully agree.

More revenue is not the only way to increase profit.
 
Caryjack
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:35 am

global1 wrote:
The goal post here is to become the #1 rated airline to Europe and Latin America and significantly improve our standing across the Pacific.

After the successful launch of the new Main Cabin service,
focus will shift to DeltaOne ,Premium Select, and then domestic First.

Keep Climbing

SEA is my home port and I fly Delta internationally to the east, west and down south (EK north). I usually fly C+ and am very happy with their product and how it's served. In the time they've been in Seattle Delta has expanded their routes and connections which provide more opportunities with less travel related problems. I've talked to many Delta crew members and they seem very happy with the operation in Seattle and being in the area.
You say that Delta will soon change focus to DeltaOne, Premium Select, then Domestic First....What about Comfort+? I like the extra room, service and boarding for what I think is a reasonable premium. I hope it stays.
Thanks,
Cary
 
LY777
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:41 am

If DL flew the 787, would it be 8 or 9 abreast?
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aeropix
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:22 am

kiowa wrote:
An improvement would be less cramped seating on delta.


Delta is one of the last remaining carriers offering 9 abreast on the 777, while the rest of the world has gone 10-abreast. They also have plenty of 7-abreast 767's and 8-abreast airbus so I think your complaint has no substance whatsoever. They are the economy space leader already.
 
afgeneral
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:31 am

MatthewDB wrote:
afgeneral wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

Space on an aircraft costs serious money. People who want to pay for it have First/Business and Comfort+ and/or Premium Select on over 90% of DL/DL Connection aircraft. Modest improvements in long-haul coach meal service (greatly overdue, IMHO), not so much $.


I'd happily pay 50% more for 50% more space. I'd even pay 75% more. The problem is they want to charge 500% more for 50% more space.


As someone who does pay more, I agree completely. I'm traveling later this month in Y+ outbound and F inbound on my dime. F, J and Y+ are profit centers for the airline and the cost escalates like crazy, particularly on the very long flights. My employer will pay for Y+ and getting that is often hard. It usually sells out before Y. Because of the ridiculous cost, my employer cut J tickets altogether in 2013. Before that we could qualify based on the number of trips.

I strongly believe that the airlines are hesitant on Y+ because they think it cuts into the profits of J.


Airlines could keep the same margin in Y by scaling the available space to the price, in a linear and proportional way. If airlines are purposefully making Y miserable in order to push passenger to a significantly higher margin product such as J... It can be argued that that is a failure of the free market and there is scope for regulation / public policy. We may have to introduce a minimum regulatory seat width / pitch requirement. OR at least decrease passenger density with stricter safety / evacuation standards.
 
JAMBOJET
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:07 pm

LY777 wrote:
If DL flew the 787, would it be 8 or 9 abreast?


9.

The 777 3-3-3 seating isn’t some “goodness of their heart” move, it’s because Delta already crams the most seats on their International 777-200s of the US3 even with 3-3-3 in the back and those planes have to get to/from JNB and other long-haul destinations. It was a weight restriction issue that delta PR spun into some passenger comfort gimmick.
Delta is a really well-run company but they aren’t a charity.
Good for Delta for making the most seats of all international US3 777-200 seem like a passenger dream. They have a great PR team and make smart cost-based decisions.

And great idea on Bellinis! Definitely a positive surprise in Y. Delta is really good at those positive surprises that leave an impression.
 
UAL777UK
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:24 pm

Can I ask one question here. I see all these responses, some people getting all heated up etc (normal thread I guess) but ultimately, given that we are talking about Y, do the majority of the flying public really give a s### what the service is like in Y. The majority, who would not know one plane/airline from another will pay with their wallet! They don't care if DL, UA, AA, BA or whatever gives them this entre or that dessert. If it gets them from A to B safely and yes, they get food on route...they don't care.

Just my 2 cent :wave:
 
global1
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:37 pm

Keep in mind that the seat count on the 777 is higher because of the larger Y cabin. It is not a premium heavy configuration and only now is PremiumSelect being retrofitted. It is not because passengers are being ‘crammed’ in.

And yes, 3-3-3 beats 10 abreast any day.

Delta is getting a revenue premium because many travelers (90% load factors) are choosing to pay extra to fly with us because they perceive the product and service warrant the expenditure.

That being said, there are always those who will click the tab that’s $10. less.
Last edited by global1 on Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
IWMBH
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:03 pm

Junction wrote:
Sounds similar to KLM main cabin service. Coincidence?


What has the main cabin of KLM to do with Delta's, except for they are in the same alliance?
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:09 pm

IWMBH wrote:
Junction wrote:
Sounds similar to KLM main cabin service. Coincidence?


What has the main cabin of KLM to do with Delta's, except for they are in the same alliance?


A lot actually considering they have a joint venture across the atlantic. Much like the star alliance members and joint venture partners Air canada and Lufthansa have aligned their seating products.
 
tonystan
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:30 pm

gatibosgru wrote:
tonystan wrote:
I can’t believe how easily pleased you all are. This offering is just awful. And to think Americans come on the likes of BA and complain! And is there really no second service? Just a hot towel and a tiny piece of chocolate?

Wow!


Why not do reasearch before posting and looking ignorant?.

What exactly is awful about DLs offering? Is it the fact that they've kept their 777s in a 3x3x3 config? Or that they now offer an additional drink service with a free cocktail? Is it the larger entrees and options of appetizer? Is it the free amenity kit in Y? Maybe it is the friendly DL service. And yes, there is a second service. Sheesh.


Don’t cheapen this thread with name calling mate, you’re better then that! Respect all posts and posters.

I’m basing everything I have said on the article posted. An article which really doesn’t sell the “enhanced” product as anything particularly great, in fact it looks meager. It merely seems Delta are trying to cost cut and put a spin on it which seems to be working. There is a great ignorance to how marketing works and this highlights that!

Iv been in this industry 20 years and I’ve seen it all before. A smaller tray with less things on it but let’s throw a hot towel into the equation and the masses will think it’s the second coming!

There is nothing in that article which states what customers can expect on flights of varying lengths. Most airlines when relaunching a product will outline the varying expectations depending on flight length!
Last edited by tonystan on Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
tonystan
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:31 pm

FlyHappy wrote:
tonystan wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:

I am decades out of first hand experience, but reputationally, it seems to me that BA Y long haul is widely criticized. Am I wrong?
The volume of service is directly related to the length of the flight - nothing new at all, and this change changes none of that.

Is there something about adding a pre-flight drink, hot towels, a seperate dessert service and a small chocolate prior to landing either a) bother you in some way or b) indicate that something is being subtracted?
In what way is BA's Y service better?


Well ok, let’s take my flight today for example. LHR-SFO. Flight time set at 10:25.

Complimentary bar round immediately after take off including pretzels and alcoholic beverages.
Meal service with choice of wine. The meal tray is a full size tray including a salad dish, desert, bottle of water, cheese & crackers, choice of hot meal, tea/coffee round. Once service is complete regular juice rounds and of course the bar remains open throughout the flight and remains complimentary.

Half way through the flight about 5 hours in a Magnum Ice cream is offered. Also an opportunity to request more drinks. 1:30 prior to landing another service including a meal tray with water and a small hot meal choice, usually a pizza or calzone slice. Includes hot beverage and additional drinks available upon request.

Let’s put it this way, it’s a pretty hefty offering even for the average American.

The posted article at the start of this thread would not entice me to fly DL. It is either missing huge chunks of the service or is being left hopelessly vague.


huh. nothing you've described (I assume this is BA) sounds unsual to me at all, with the possible exceptions of wine choice (beyond red or wine, I assume) and the "Magnum Ice cream". I mean, are you thinking of the long haul LCC's (like Norwegian) or something? what you've described is what I've experienced from every mainstream long haul carrier from every continent for decades.

btw, I have asked for, and received entire second meals in Y (like right after the cabin has been fully served) on US carriers. Not because the pressed duck was oh-so-exquisite, but because I was particularly hungry at that moment. I didn't really think anyone would find that to be a big deal, but maybe you would.


So detail to me what’s special about Deltas new offering? Apart from a meager tray with little on?
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
global1
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:29 pm

First off, there’s no “tray”.

The only thing that really matters is how customers will react to the new concept.
If results are in line with what has been shown on Pdx-Nrt and test flights, it will significantly drive net promoter scores.

Delta continues it climb.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:52 pm

tonystan wrote:

So detail to me what’s special about Deltas new offering? Apart from a meager tray with little on?


nothing special at all.
Delta is pretty good at PR work, and I percieve they are simply announcing, in a positive way, as all well run businesses should, that they've made some small changes to long haul service (cocktail, towels, menu, selection, seperate dessert service). These are small things, but sometimes small things can have a positive impact. I've not experienced it, so I don't know whether it amounts to anything of substance or not.

What I question is your presumption that this non-detailed announcement with small thumbnails and illustrations really tells you that the overall food offering is "meager" . I'll point out that 1 tray style offerings (as you described of your SFO-LHR flight) often contain less food than percieved, as so much space is taken by packaging. This is how all carriers served in decades past; lots of tray space taken up by cutlery, containers for every items, salt and pepper shakers, little packets of "stuff".
I really don't think pax are going hungry then or now.

Perhaps you are right, and BA has fabulous catering and Delta's stinks. Personally, I've never noted substantial differences on mainstream long haul catering in Y, save for the Asians who stand out (PRC excluded). Logically, they mostly use the same catering suppliers and spend roughly the same. Certainly there are differences in execution and presentation. I just see little to criticize here if Delta wants to emphasize "hospitality", "greeting", "gratitude" and "farewell" (all words from their flyer) .

Honestly - I think its refreshing that every once in a while, an Airline at least pays lip service to the mass of humanity in the back, as a respite from the constant obsession of premium pax focus and what the duvet thread count is, whether there's a privacy door on their pod, if the amenity kit contains proper moisturizers or not.
 
JAMBOJET
Posts: 261
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:48 pm

global1 wrote:
Keep in mind that the seat count on the 777 is higher because of the larger Y cabin. It is not a premium heavy configuration and only now is PremiumSelect being retrofitted. It is not because passengers are being ‘crammed’ in.


76 J+W on delta 777
61 J+W in AA 777
More J on AA, true, not more premium seats.

And yeah... putting the most passengers on a specific plane type vs your competitors, regardless of class, is the definition of cramming folks in... 288 on the plane is the most of the US3 777-200 international varieties.

But live your dream and keep defending your company :)
Just do it with a dose of reality. Delta is a great company but they aren’t an angel investment fund ;)
 
FF630
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:42 pm

Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:52 am

On Tuesday I flew ATL to Heathrow in Comfort +., food was average, everything on one plate encased in plastic wrap, flight attendants were great, very accommodating.

If D goes to a service with appetizer and drinks then the main course that would distinguish them from UA and AA but still not as good as the Asian carriers.

Plane was delayed leaving Atlanta because it had not been cleaned between its arrival from Rome and departure to Heathrow.. Delta had 4 hours to clean the plane according to its arrival from Rome and departure to London, inexcusable !!!
 
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gatibosgru
Topic Author
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:42 am

tonystan wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
tonystan wrote:
I can’t believe how easily pleased you all are. This offering is just awful. And to think Americans come on the likes of BA and complain! And is there really no second service? Just a hot towel and a tiny piece of chocolate?

Wow!


Why not do reasearch before posting and looking ignorant?.

What exactly is awful about DLs offering? Is it the fact that they've kept their 777s in a 3x3x3 config? Or that they now offer an additional drink service with a free cocktail? Is it the larger entrees and options of appetizer? Is it the free amenity kit in Y? Maybe it is the friendly DL service. And yes, there is a second service. Sheesh.


Don’t cheapen this thread with name calling mate, you’re better then that! Respect all posts and posters.

I’m basing everything I have said on the article posted. An article which really doesn’t sell the “enhanced” product as anything particularly great, in fact it looks meager. It merely seems Delta are trying to cost cut and put a spin on it which seems to be working. There is a great ignorance to how marketing works and this highlights that!

Iv been in this industry 20 years and I’ve seen it all before. A smaller tray with less things on it but let’s throw a hot towel into the equation and the masses will think it’s the second coming!

There is nothing in that article which states what customers can expect on flights of varying lengths. Most airlines when relaunching a product will outline the varying expectations depending on flight length!


So no answer to my question as to what exactly is awful?
@DadCelo
 
Gangurru
Posts: 95
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:57 am

LUKAS10 wrote:
It seems the new bistro-style meal service concept is becoming more and more popular amongst the airlines. Does anyone have experience with this new meal service style as a passenger or a crew member? I don't really get the point of it. It seems to be more work for the crew and less food for passengers. However, I may be wrong. So how is it?


I regularly fly between Australia/New Zealand and Europe on Qantas (Bistro) and Emirates (multi course tray service). These are journeys of up to 32hours, so sufficient food matters.

Neither airline lets me go hungry. It’s great to chow down on the big Emirates meal, but I’ve found that QF’s bistro grazing style (main with seperate desert) fills me up much like nibbling on tapas or small plates does.
 
flyboy80
Posts: 2066
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:10 am

Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:01 am

How does delta manage to have more seats on the 77E/L with 9 abreast? Do they have fewer galleys, lavs, or less pitch versus AA and UA?
 
timf
Posts: 552
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:26 pm

flyboy80 wrote:
How does delta manage to have more seats on the 77E/L with 9 abreast? Do they have fewer galleys, lavs, or less pitch versus AA and UA?

Delta reduced business class to only 28 seats, allowing all of the space beyond door 2 to be used for premium economy and economy.
 
JAMBOJET
Posts: 261
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:11 pm

timf wrote:
flyboy80 wrote:
How does delta manage to have more seats on the 77E/L with 9 abreast? Do they have fewer galleys, lavs, or less pitch versus AA and UA?

Delta reduced business class to only 28 seats, allowing all of the space beyond door 2 to be used for premium economy and economy.


That’s not the reason. The old configuration had 37 Business class and 291 seats total per their website even higher than AA and United. Reducing their business class seat to 28 and adding Premium economy made it 288 total.
They simply have very very dense planes, they do across nearly every fleet type.
Frankly, I think Delta has a winning formula: Customers don’t care that much about the hard product if you get the soft product right, treat customers like humans, offer unexpected positive surprises, and put a TV in front of their face. Customers appreciate it a lot. It’s cost effective and wins customers for them in the long run. Good for Delta.
But again back to the topic. Bellinis are a nice touch. Did anyone ever figure out if it’s replacing the first beverage service or supplementing it?
 
Detroit313
Posts: 494
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:32 pm

It is all PR as usual.
 
BenflysDTW
Posts: 296
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:39 am

Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:14 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
It is all PR as usual.

I don’t see why this is a problem.
 
AEROFAN
Posts: 1841
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:31 pm

I don't fly economy internationally and hope I do not ever have to, but I must say that this sounds very respectable for Y class.
 
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TransWorldOne
Posts: 350
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Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:39 pm

[/quote]But again back to the topic. Bellinis are a nice touch. Did anyone ever figure out if it’s replacing the first beverage service or supplementing it?[/quote]

I can confirm that the Bellini service does indeed replace the initial beverage/snack service.
 
Trip
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:01 pm

Re: Delta improves intl Main Cabin experience

Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:02 am

[/quote]
I can confirm that the Bellini service does indeed replace the initial beverage/snack service.[/quote]

So instead of getting any beverage you want right after takeoff you get a Bellini or nothing until the meal arrives. And they're touting this as an improvement.

Edit: I guess the water bottle is still offered after takeoff. Still a downgrade from the current service.

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