slcguy
Topic Author
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:09 pm

Coffee maker delayed flight

Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:11 pm

Yesterday I was on a flight that was delayed on pushback for 15 minutes due to a malfunctioning coffee maker (all the lights on it started blinking when it was turned on). While the delay was no big deal as it was short and we still got to destination on time it made me wonder. Don't know if this is an MEL item but they had to notify company/maintenance and get verification that the aircraft was still in service. The crew kept the passengers up to date on the situation, at least two PA announcements by the pilots. Is this normal for such a minor problem? Seems a simple write up in the aircraft log that the coffee maker was inop would have sufficed.

For those interested in details:
Delta/Skywest flight 3818 on 11/6/19
ABQ-SLC, E-175 N254SY
 
Pontius
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:19 pm

Re: Coffee maker delayed flight

Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:29 pm

"A simple write up in the aircraft log" requires contact with the Maintenance Control desk, after which the MEL would be applied. Between holding on the phone for your mx controller, looking up the specific MEL within the 1000 page document, documenting the application of the MEL item in the aircraft log, preparing and applying placards.....it's a process that routinely consumes 15 minutes. Count yourself fortunate.
 
Pontius
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:19 pm

Re: Coffee maker delayed flight

Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:35 pm

Generally speaking, every discrepancy entered in the logbook requires a balancing corrective action. It's like debits and credits. Every corrective action entry (whether the crew can accomplish it or a A&P is necessary) will include specific phraseology and/or a reference from the MEL or the Aircraft Maintenance Manual. Therefore it's never fast, even if the problem seems minor. For a significant repari (like changing a bleed valve, for example) the paperwork alone can take 45 minutes after the repair is accomplished.
 
slcguy
Topic Author
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:09 pm

Re: Coffee maker delayed flight

Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:41 pm

Pontius wrote:
"A simple write up in the aircraft log" requires contact with the Maintenance Control desk, after which the MEL would be applied. Between holding on the phone for your mx controller, looking up the specific MEL within the 1000 page document, documenting the application of the MEL item in the aircraft log, preparing and applying placards.....it's a process that routinely consumes 15 minutes. Count yourself fortunate.


I was, I usually drink diet coke anyway! LOL
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Coffee maker delayed flight

Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:44 pm

Coffee should be on the MEL. :spit:

In seriousness, it was paperwork to show a malfunctioning electrical item was safe for flight. The blinking lights could have been indication of a fire hazard (unlikely), so paper must be completed.

Lightsaber

PS,
It has been SIX days since yours truly had caffeine. Ghad is coffee calling... I will resist. :crossfingers:

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
slcguy
Topic Author
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:09 pm

Re: Coffee maker delayed flight

Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:54 pm

Thank you for the responses, makes sense now that I think about it. Good luck light giving up the caffeine LOL.
 
sunking737
Posts: 1469
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:33 pm

Re: Coffee maker delayed flight

Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:06 pm

From a catering & commissary side of things, Coffee is the life blood of the first crew of the morning. Some of us that knew what crew was coming on board first thing we would even start brewing for them. Nothing more enjoyable then walking on board and coffee is on. Sometimes we would polish off two pots (between flight crews, Mx & catering) before the pax show
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
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zeke
Posts: 14065
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Coffee maker delayed flight

Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:13 pm

Coffee maker should not be in the MEL. This is a a simple cabin defect.
Last edited by zeke on Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
737max8
Posts: 534
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 am

Re: Coffee maker delayed flight

Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:18 pm

zeke wrote:
Coffee maker should not be in the MEL.


But they are....good thing it wasn't like day 120 and it would have to be "grounded" until a new one came in :lol:
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
Flown on: 717 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 7M8 744 744ER 752 753 762 763 772 773ER 788 789 A319/20/21 A332 A333 A343 A359 A388
 
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zeke
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Re: Coffee maker delayed flight

Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:20 pm

737max8 wrote:
zeke wrote:
Coffee maker should not be in the MEL.


But they are....good thing it wasn't day 120 and it would have to be grounded until a new one came in :lol:


Want to show me where they are in the MMEL ?

Most aircraft are certified without a cabin installed, that is what the MEL us built around.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
openskies88
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:42 am

Re: Coffee maker delayed flight

Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:21 pm

zeke wrote:
Coffee maker should not be in the MEL. This is a a simple cabin defect.


At my airline they’re not... Just pull the circuit breaker and slap an INOP sticker on it.
 
alasizon
Posts: 1994
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Re: Coffee maker delayed flight

Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:31 pm

openskies88 wrote:
zeke wrote:
Coffee maker should not be in the MEL. This is a a simple cabin defect.


At my airline they’re not... Just pull the circuit breaker and slap an INOP sticker on it.


Most are NEFs but depending on what is wrong with the coffee maker on certain RJs, it also can be classified as a potable water system component MEL. I can't remember what the different circumstances are but I've seen MX have to re-classify the NEF to an MEL.
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
Pontius
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:19 pm

Re: Coffee maker delayed flight

Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:03 pm

MEL - Minimum Equipment List - Something's Broke.
example: "Navigation Light Inop"

CDL - Configuration Deviation List - Something's Missing
example: "Winglet removed"

NEF - Non-Essential Furnishings - Something Doesn't Matter.
example: "Carpet Torn"

The application of these three categories is very similar under most airline maintenance programs.
 
CATIIIevery5yrs
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:40 am

Re: Coffee maker delayed flight

Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:36 am

When someone asks me what I did today I get to say I saw some folks argue over the internet about broken airplane coffee makers.
 
77H
Posts: 1501
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: Coffee maker delayed flight

Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:38 am

CATIIIevery5yrs wrote:
When someone asks me what I did today I get to say I saw some folks argue over the internet about broken airplane coffee makers.


Posts like this drive the need for A.Net to have a thumbs up/like button. :lol:

77H
 
thesaladdays
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:31 pm

Re: Coffee maker delayed flight

Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:25 am

lightsaber wrote:

PS,
It has been SIX days since yours truly had caffeine. Ghad is coffee calling... I will resist. :crossfingers:


It gets easier, hang in there ;)
 
UpNAWAy
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: Coffee maker delayed flight

Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:23 pm

Delays happen every day for minor interior things like IFE, Seats, Tray Tables, Overhead Bins, Galley and Lav issues etc. The problem is two fold, as mentioned it still requires paperwork so a 10-15 minute delay just to do that is normal. Also most of these type of things are not discovered until the passengers or FA's start using it at the last few minutes before departure.
 
SANMAN66
Posts: 895
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:37 pm

Re: Coffee maker delayed flight

Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:54 pm

I was on a flight that was delayed on pushback for several minutes because one of the toilets was not flushing correctly.
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
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longhauler
Posts: 6365
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

Re: Coffee maker delayed flight

Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:06 am

SANMAN66 wrote:
I was on a flight that was delayed on pushback for several minutes because one of the toilets was not flushing correctly.

Again. Like the coffee maker itself, it’s what its failure of a flush pump enroute could eventually become.

Under normal circumstances it is far better to electrically secure the device before departure, whatever it does.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
A320FlyGuy
Posts: 266
Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 8:31 pm

Re: Coffee maker delayed flight

Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:35 am

longhauler wrote:
SANMAN66 wrote:
I was on a flight that was delayed on pushback for several minutes because one of the toilets was not flushing correctly.

Again. Like the coffee maker itself, it’s what its failure of a flush pump enroute could eventually become.

Under normal circumstances it is far better to electrically secure the device before departure, whatever it does.


Don’t forget...it was a malfunctioning flush motor that led to Air Canada Flight 797....I’d happily take a delay for an electrical item to be isolated/secured.
My other car is an A320-200
 
User avatar
longhauler
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Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

Re: Coffee maker delayed flight

Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:16 am

A320FlyGuy wrote:
Don’t forget...it was a malfunctioning flush motor that led to Air Canada Flight 797....I’d happily take a delay for an electrical item to be isolated/secured.

The cause of AC797 was never determined. It was however determined that the flush pump motor was not the cause of the fire. The fire caused the flush pump motor to malfunction and pop the circuit breakers, not the other way around.

The rest of your statement is 110% correct, IMO.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 804
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: Coffee maker delayed flight

Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:40 am

PS,
It has been SIX days since yours truly had caffeine. Ghad is coffee calling... I will resist.


That's crazy talk!
 
A320FlyGuy
Posts: 266
Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 8:31 pm

Re: Coffee maker delayed flight

Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:36 am

longhauler wrote:
A320FlyGuy wrote:
Don’t forget...it was a malfunctioning flush motor that led to Air Canada Flight 797....I’d happily take a delay for an electrical item to be isolated/secured.

The cause of AC797 was never determined. It was however determined that the flush pump motor was not the cause of the fire. The fire caused the flush pump motor to malfunction and pop the circuit breakers, not the other way around.

The rest of your statement is 110% correct, IMO.


I read both the NTSB report and also a McDonnell Douglas investigation and it said the flush motor couldn’t be vindicated either way...it’s one of those things I guess we will never know.
My other car is an A320-200
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3314
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Coffee maker delayed flight

Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:53 am

slcguy wrote:
Yesterday I was on a flight that was delayed on pushback for 15 minutes due to a malfunctioning coffee maker (all the lights on it started blinking when it was turned on). While the delay was no big deal as it was short and we still got to destination on time it made me wonder. Don't know if this is an MEL item but they had to notify company/maintenance and get verification that the aircraft was still in service. The crew kept the passengers up to date on the situation, at least two PA announcements by the pilots. Is this normal for such a minor problem? Seems a simple write up in the aircraft log that the coffee maker was inop would have sufficed.

For those interested in details:
Delta/Skywest flight 3818 on 11/6/19
ABQ-SLC, E-175 N254SY



Depends on how many coffee makers were down. There are min number /pass requirements dating back to the 60's.
 
DeltaConnection
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:16 pm

Re: Coffee maker delayed flight

Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:57 am

Depends on whether it's the coffee maker itself or a fuse/wire/gear/motor making the coffee maker work. One is not a problem, the others can be.
 
amcnd
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:19 am

Re: Coffee maker delayed flight

Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:57 am

15 min delay, Could have been to drain the water for the galley.. ect. Sometimes coffee makers leak causing issues. SkyWest is full electronic Aircraft MX log. Saves a ton of time. Everything is done on a ipad no paper..
 
User avatar
longhauler
Posts: 6365
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

Re: Coffee maker delayed flight

Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:22 am

A320FlyGuy wrote:
I read both the NTSB report and also a McDonnell Douglas investigation and it said the flush motor couldn’t be vindicated either way...it’s one of those things I guess we will never know.

As the fire started outside the lav shell and the flush pump motor is inside the lav shell it would be hard for it to be the cause of the fire.

However, the wiring for all components was under suspicion, flush pump included. Remember that this aircraft was the DC-9 that had the rear pressure bulkhead let go due to fatigue cracks while climbing out of BOS a few years earlier. The investigation focused on the reconstruction, with which McDD assisted.

It was interesting talking with the Captain of AC797. (I was a part of the second NTSB and TSB investigations). He said that he had never seen before, when resetting the circuit breaker of the flush pump motor, that the breaker came back out as he released it .... never leaving his thumb! The fire was in full force by then.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!

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