According to the link below, AM could be connecting GDL with CDG. An announcement could be made as soon as December.

It’s about time that GDL has TATL service, although I would have imagined a connection with Madrid would have been top of the list, I guess CDG allows for one-stop connections to the rest of Europe.

A good idea! Let’s hope it works.

https://www.mural.com/operara-aeromexico-vuelo-gdl-paris/ar1807875

Surprised that AM hasn’t launched MEX - FCO before this, mind you.

Interesting, although you’d think a Madrid flight would come long before Paris. This would of course make more sense on Iberia to make the most of connection opportunities.

So yet again this disconnect shows how slow IAG’s airlines are to take advantage of the opportunities available to them.

IB included GDL on a list of potential destinations they were studying several years back. Since then the silence has been deafening. If AM beat them in launching TATL from GDL on a spoke route to boot then that’s telling.

GDL is weird in that it’s a huge city with a strong economy but it struggles to support any international air service beyond transborder to US legacy hubs, strong VFR destinations and limited CM presence. You’d think GDL would have a more robust international portfolio but Mexico is such a DF and beach resort centric country. Everything either flows through MEX except when it’s heading to a beach town.

Gregd75 wrote:

According to the link below, AM could be connecting GDL with CDG. An announcement could be made as soon as December.

It’s about time that GDL has TATL service, although I would have imagined a connection with Madrid would have been top of the list, I guess CDG allows for one-stop connections to the rest of Europe.

A good idea! Let’s hope it works.

https://www.mural.com/operara-aeromexico-vuelo-gdl-paris/ar1807875

Surprised that AM hasn’t launched MEX - FCO before this, mind you.

It's about time! I always thought that GDL was only authorized for cargo flights. AF cargo already flies there. Concerning FCO, many years ago AM flew from Mexico City to Rome via Monterrey with a B767. It didn't last long.

Would be a great addition. Hope it happens.

It baffles me how GDL doesnt get more international tourism. Its so touristy and relatively safe. Very gay too..

The land of Tequila is nearby! What is everyone waiting for

santi319 wrote:

It baffles me how GDL doesnt get more international tourism. Its so touristy and relatively safe. Very gay too..

The land of Tequila is nearby! What is everyone waiting for

GDL is not a beach destination and Mexico in general is terrible at selling itself to intercontinental tourism outside the Yucatán peninsula (which has the Mayans to thank for that).

Not really on-topic but San Miguel de Allende is a UNESCO world heritage site and on my all-time bucket list.

Would be the only way you could get from FAT to CDG on SkyTeam only using mainline aircraft...not that anyone would ever do it with the extra flight time, double redeye, and all-day sit in GDL (short of some ridiculously cheap fare sale).

Polot wrote:

santi319 wrote:

It baffles me how GDL doesnt get more international tourism. Its so touristy and relatively safe. Very gay too..

The land of Tequila is nearby! What is everyone waiting for

GDL is not a beach destination and Mexico in general is terrible at selling itself to intercontinental tourism outside the Yucatán peninsula (which has the Mayans to thank for that).

Basically. GDL doesn’t market itself as a tourist destination and Mexico as a whole is viewed more of as a beach tourism country. That alone would make it hard for GDL to get much traction. Personally, unless combining it with a trip to PVR, Lake Chapala or Ajijic I don’t find that there’s that much to do either. Tequila, Tonala, el Centro but not that much else.

Been to GDL, I would not call it a tourism destination.

While CDG offers connections throughout Europe I am surprised AM has not yet attempted a MAD flight. But the GDL strong point thus far has been northbound traffic to the US.


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chepos wrote:

Been to GDL, I would not call it a tourism destination.

Just * in the Michelin Green Guide - far from the best Mexico can offer, beach or not. That doesn't mean Guadalajarans don't want to go to MAD or PAR, but in-bound tourism?

GSPSPOT wrote:

Not really on-topic but San Miguel de Allende is a UNESCO world heritage site and on my all-time bucket list.

BJX is the closest airport to San Miguel, by far, but still a couple hours by car from there to San Miguel. GDL to San Miguel is more than a 4-hour drive.

Having been to both San Miguel and Guanajuato, I would choose Guanajuato every time (also a UNESCO World Heritage Site, and far more scenic and interesting than San Miguel). San Miguel is Cancun in the mountains. Everyone speaks English (as most of the "locals" are actually expats), prices are inflated, and it is mostly a collection of art galleries and hipster-filled restaurants and bars catering to American tourists or retirees.

Guanajuato is 30 mins from BJX, set in a beautiful valley up in the mountains, has gorgeous architecture dating from when it was one of the richest mining towns on earth, and is predominantly a tourist destination for Mexican tourists (or parents visiting their kids at the major University there).

It would be really cool to see this. I visited Guadalajara in August and was blown away by the city. It seems to have the economy and such that could sustain something like this. Not only that, but I met quite a few European tourists at the hostels, so clearly there could be demand on both sides. Let's hope to see this go through!

whiskeyhotel wrote:

GSPSPOT wrote:

Not really on-topic but San Miguel de Allende is a UNESCO world heritage site and on my all-time bucket list.

BJX is the closest airport to San Miguel, by far, but still a couple hours by car from there to San Miguel. GDL to San Miguel is more than a 4-hour drive.

Having been to both San Miguel and Guanajuato, I would choose Guanajuato every time (also a UNESCO World Heritage Site, and far more scenic and interesting than San Miguel). San Miguel is Cancun in the mountains. Everyone speaks English (as most of the "locals" are actually expats), prices are inflated, and it is mostly a collection of art galleries and hipster-filled restaurants and bars catering to American tourists or retirees.

Guanajuato is 30 mins from BJX, set in a beautiful valley up in the mountains, has gorgeous architecture dating from when it was one of the richest mining towns on earth, and is predominantly a tourist destination for Mexican tourists (or parents visiting their kids at the major University there).

The closest airport to San Miguel is QRO.

Huge missed opportunity to not rename the airport Queretaro/San Miguel De Allende.

But yeah thats kinda long.

santi319 wrote:

It baffles me how GDL doesnt get more international tourism. Its so touristy and relatively safe. Very gay too..

The land of Tequila is nearby! What is everyone waiting for

It doesn't matter how safe you are when you are the headquarters of Julasico nuevo revolucion and get all the negative press.

Is there another page similar to airliners for airline/airplane enthusiasts that doesnt have 12 year olds?

Serious question.

santi319 wrote:

It baffles me how GDL doesnt get more international tourism. Its so touristy and relatively safe. Very gay too..

The land of Tequila is nearby! What is everyone waiting for

I've heard its very gay, I want to go

BravoOne wrote:

Why would anyone want to go to GDL, much less Mexico in general?

LOL, you tried

maverick4002 wrote:

BravoOne wrote:

Why would anyone want to go to GDL, much less Mexico in general?

LOL, you tried

And failed...

Dear Bravo One,

Mexico is much more than generic Cancun beaches, drug violence and incompetent politicians. We are not telling you why would anyone want to visit Mexico, look it for yourself. And exclude the drug factor.
Cheers.

by BravoOne » 09 Nov 2019 00:02

Why would anyone want to go to GDL, much less Mexico in general?

Try reframing the question.

Why would there be demand from GDL (Mexicos 2nd city, home of IBM and HP) to Europe?

Maybe Mexicans do not want to fly to Europe with a layover in the USA (as a consequence of Trump and increased racism), stop overs in MEX are possible but the airport is very busy and it would also lead to two-stop trips; GDL-MEX-CDG-VIE (for example)

Flying to CDG opens new opportunities for the population of GDL, Jalisco, Colima, Nayarit and Michoacán.

Lets think about this being motivated by people wanting to travel TO Europe more than people traveling FROM Europe.

I think its a good move by AeroMexico.

Definitely, I'd thought Madrid would have come first. Still, a very good opportunity for the Tapatíos.

From a good source, I can tell you that Iberia will soon reconsider GDL and possibly also look into MTY, which are productive business centers of Mexico longing to be connected Europe to increase business ties. The development of IAG's purchase of Air Europa will help IB expand further into new opportunities in Latin America, which is hampered by constrains due to IB's lack of suitable equipment. Once the acquisition and integration takes place, many of the current competing routes to South America will consolidate and the spare 787 aircraft from the Air Europa purchase will be refocused to open new markets in the name of AIG.

AM already knows via it's own passenger data that there's enough demand for a nonstop flight to Europe. There's lots of business travel to Europe to GDL (GDL is industrial with many EU business ties) and there's cargo and tourist to be flown from GDL to Europe that will avoid a MEX connection, if possible. GDL-CDG is not a natural choice as a direct flight to MAD would be a better option.

Interestingly, GDL -Paris have been connected in the past when Air France flew PAR-NYC-GDL-PVR 2x week in the '60s up to the mid-'70s.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... l-network/

Could Air Europa be used by IAG to keep growing in secondary ports of the Americas like Guadalajara?

Good points!

How about Level flying BCN -GDL with connections on Vueling at BCN?

GDL - BCN - MAD stays one-stop just like flying to CDG. I would imagine that there is tourism direct to BCN too, and this feeds into the Vueling network.

So, just as AM started to fly MEX -BCN in order to beat Emirates to the route, it may be that they are thinking about this route to beat IAG to this route.

One thing to remember- AM posted a loss recently, so they’ll have to be very careful selecting any new routes. They won’t want to lose more money.

I think this type of route is what the 787-8 was made for. Long thin, opening new secondary cities.

I'm very surprised GDL has such limited international flights.. I always viewed it as a similar city to Medellin in Colombia, vibrant second cities that have a good amount of business ties, and are becoming a growing tourist destination. That being said, I agree it would be a shock if Paris came before Madrid. I also agree the Air Europa deal should open up some opportunities for secondary cities all across Latin America.

Mex87 wrote:

maverick4002 wrote:

BravoOne wrote:

Why would anyone want to go to GDL, much less Mexico in general?

LOL, you tried

And failed...

Dear Bravo One,

Mexico is much more than generic Cancun beaches, drug violence and incompetent politicians. We are not telling you why would anyone want to visit Mexico, look it for yourself. And exclude the drug factor.
Cheers.

Thanks for the civil reply. I have been through out Mexico on many occasions, including GDL. I sorley miss ACA but wold not give so much as a seconds thought for a vacation these days. Not into the gay life style but what ever works for you.

DCA350 wrote:

I'm very surprised GDL has such limited international flights.. I always viewed it as a similar city to Medellin in Colombia, vibrant second cities that have a good amount of business ties, and are becoming a growing tourist destination. That being said, I agree it would be a shock if Paris came before Madrid. I also agree the Air Europa deal should open up some opportunities for secondary cities all across Latin America.

May be AM is choosing Paris over Madrid because of all the connexions beyond with Air France. GDL can’t sustain a route to Europe with only O&D, it needs connexions to make it work and now with the departure of Air Europa from Skyteam makes more sense to AM. But honestly is a strange route to do for AM, seems more logical for Air France. At least AF through KL have more expertise in secondary markets such as CTG and GYE.

santi319 wrote:

Is there another page similar to airliners for airline/airplane enthusiasts that doesnt have 12 year olds?

Serious question.

As a matter of fact there is. Try PPrune or Pro Pilot World. Probably more in line with operational issues but PPrune has something for everyone.

You are welcome.

Brickell305 wrote:

Polot wrote:

santi319 wrote:

It baffles me how GDL doesnt get more international tourism. Its so touristy and relatively safe. Very gay too..

The land of Tequila is nearby! What is everyone waiting for

GDL is not a beach destination and Mexico in general is terrible at selling itself to intercontinental tourism outside the Yucatán peninsula (which has the Mayans to thank for that).

Basically. GDL doesn’t market itself as a tourist destination and Mexico as a whole is viewed more of as a beach tourism country. That alone would make it hard for GDL to get much traction. Personally, unless combining it with a trip to PVR, Lake Chapala or Ajijic I don’t find that there’s that much to do either. Tequila, Tonala, el Centro but not that much else.

Why on earth wouldn’t you include those things? People don’t sit on a 12 hour flight across the ocean to visit a city for three days. They go to multiple places.

The bigger problem with GDL attracting tourists to fill TATL flights is similar to the problem Cuba has ex-HAV, or France ex-Paris, or Japan ex-Tokyo. Virtually everyone taking a non-beach trip to Mexico really wants to see Mexico City. They might also plan to go to some other places, but nobody goes “I’ll think I’ll skip Mexico City.” It’s the main event. So they book a flight to MEX and fill in the rest.

Germany, Italy, Spain, Canada, USA, etc are much different. There’s no must-see city in those countries that ~every single foreign visitor would never dream of missing. So they have far more fragmented international tourist arrivals. It’s not driven by the quality of the secondary tourist cities, but the dominance of the main tourist city.

maverick4002 wrote:

I've heard its very gay, I want to go

Hotel San Francisco Plaza is a 3-star hotel (usually about $30 /night) which is within 500 yards of the gay clubs, but is a little nicer than the other 1-2 star hotels around the gay district. Downtown is pretty gay at night, but there is still some good music for straight people.

There is also a phenomenal night scene in the Western part of town on Avenida Vallarta and Calle Cotilla for more striaght or mixed crowd. Cuban music, Indian restaurants, cafes, Lebanese food, etc. Santo coyote (old US consulate home) is the ultimate fantasy tourist restaurant.
https://santocoyote.com.mx/

Strana Guadalajara is one of those giant Mexican nightclubs (may not be the safest place to go)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgVaPkAFM4k

Guadalajara is the city proper. The other three cities have a history that predates the Spanish conquest. Zapopan is the western suburbs, Tlaquepaque is the best place to look at arts and crafts, Tonalá is the best place to purchase arts and crafts.

The GDL metro area is the primary source of crafts in Mexico.
=====================================================

It's great that they are introducing nonstops to Europe. Europeans are generally more open about vacationing in urban areas. North Americans tend to be fixated on beaches and many can't imagine an urban vacation.

The town of Tequila is about an hour outside of Guadalajara, but the Tequila Express (tourist train) is an expensive way to get there.

BravoOne wrote:

santi319 wrote:

Is there another page similar to airliners for airline/airplane enthusiasts that doesnt have 12 year olds?

Serious question.

As a matter of fact there is. Try PPrune or Pro Pilot World. Probably more in line with operational issues but PPrune has something for everyone.

You are welcome.

Thank you!!

santi319 wrote:

BravoOne wrote:

santi319 wrote:

Is there another page similar to airliners for airline/airplane enthusiasts that doesnt have 12 year olds?

Serious question.

As a matter of fact there is. Try PPrune or Pro Pilot World. Probably more in line with operational issues but PPrune has something for everyone.

You are welcome.

Thank you!!

You might need to show evidence of being a licensed pilot for Pro Pilot World but not so with PPrune.

Enjoy

BravoOne wrote:

santi319 wrote:

BravoOne wrote:

As a matter of fact there is. Try PPrune or Pro Pilot World. Probably more in line with operational issues but PPrune has something for everyone.

You are welcome.

Thank you!!

You might need to show evidence of being a licensed pilot for Pro Pilot World but not so with PPrune.

Enjoy

That is no problem! Thanks!

USA airlines fly more people to U.K. than France and Germany combined. International airlines fly more passengers to the USA from UK than from France, Germany and Ireland combined.

I think most people assume that travel between Mexico and Spain is similar. Madrid attracts only 50% more passengers than Paris from Mexico City Airport. Many of the well-to-do in Mexico are serious Francophiles.

Post civil war USA and Britain were very culturally attached. Spain was a very poor country and relations with Mexico only softened once Franco was dead in the 1970s. But after the invasion of Mexico from Napoleonic Europe, Mexico very much embraced French culture.

I also would have thought that GDL maiden European destination would have been MAD, but I am not deeply shocked that it ended up Paris. I think Delta 49% ownership of AM and their close relationship with AF was the tipping factor.

PacoMartin wrote:

USA airlines fly more people to U.K. than France and Germany combined. International airlines fly more passengers to the USA from UK than from France, Germany and Ireland combined.

I think most people assume that travel between Mexico and Spain is similar. Madrid attracts only 50% more passengers than Paris from Mexico City Airport. Many of the well-to-do in Mexico are serious Francophiles.

Post civil war USA and Britain were very culturally attached. Spain was a very poor country and relations with Mexico only softened once Franco was dead in the 1970s. But after the invasion of Mexico from Napoleonic Europe, Mexico very much embraced French culture.

I also would have thought that GDL maiden European destination would have been MAD, but I am not deeply shocked that it ended up Paris. I think Delta 49% ownership of AM and their close relationship with AF was the tipping factor.

50% more seems like a lot to me. GDL-CDG obviously is about connections past CDG on AF. That is if the flight comes to fruition.


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chepos wrote:

50% more seems like a lot to me. GDL-CDG obviously is about connections past CDG on AF. That is if the flight comes to fruition.

Mexican go to Madrid first and Paris second. Americans go to London first and Paris second. Passengers from Mexico city to Madrid leads Paris by 50%. Starting from all US airports passengers the ratio of London to Paris is 244%.

To Cancun passengers from London & Manchester, are double those from Madrid as Spaniards have their own beaches.

Certainly it is about connections past CDG on AF. But in general, the relationship of the countries with the homeland of their mother tongue is different between USA and Mexico.

PacoMartin wrote:

USA airlines fly more people to U.K. than France and Germany combined. International airlines fly more passengers to the USA from UK than from France, Germany and Ireland combined.

I think most people assume that travel between Mexico and Spain is similar. Madrid attracts only 50% more passengers than Paris from Mexico City Airport. Many of the well-to-do in Mexico are serious Francophiles.

Post civil war USA and Britain were very culturally attached. Spain was a very poor country and relations with Mexico only softened once Franco was dead in the 1970s. But after the invasion of Mexico from Napoleonic Europe, Mexico very much embraced French culture.

I also would have thought that GDL maiden European destination would have been MAD, but I am not deeply shocked that it ended up Paris. I think Delta 49% ownership of AM and their close relationship with AF was the tipping factor.

Only 50%...not thah bad, considering further connections and that Paris population is 13 million and Madrid around 7...50% les.

https://www.flightsfrom.com/GDL

GDL is a remarkably well connected airport within North America, including hubs like ATL, MIA, and JFK for European connections in the U.S., and via MEX as well. But European non-stops are going to have to show proof of premium demand for said service. When those expensive seats can be filled, an airline will start that route. A European carrier will fly the route if the demand is coming from Europe, and a Mexican carrier will fly it if the demand is Mexican. Since the proposition is for Aeromexico to fly this route, the demand is coming from the Guadalajara area itself.

With regards to regulations, I don't know what the status of "permissions" to fly this route are, meaning, "do Mexico and France have open skies?" and "are desirable gates and times available at CDG?", among other logistical questions. But if the only thing holding the flight back are the bean counters at AM waiting for demand to hit a particular threshold, and BOOM! A non-stop at your door.

This is what happened with SAN. Everything in Europe is accessible from SAN on a one-stop via any of the big hubs in the U.S. and YYZ/YVR, including the gravity well of nearby LAX. For SAN, the premium demand had to be scrutinized carefully to ensure that it would not pull any premium passengers from LAX flights. When it was shown that a SAN flight would not rob existing flights, then service began. BA returned after Bermuda II ended, and have been wildly successful, upgauging from the 777-200 to a -300 as well as the 747-400. NRT was next on JA, on a route specifically targeted for the 787. Even when the 787 was grounded, JAL continued with a weight-restricted 777-300 until the 787 returned. And Lufthansa has found room at SAN, a remarkable achievement, not pilfering from either LAX or long-reigning European-bound champ British Airways.

Congratulations nonetheless to GDL for at least being in the running for inter-continental flights!! ¡Buena Suerte GDL!

I wonder what would happen now that UX is gone. They urgently need another partner unless AF/KL JV goes through. Thoughts?

Saludos,
Alex

abrelosojos wrote:

I wonder what would happen now that UX is gone. They urgently need another partner unless AF/KL JV goes through. Thoughts?

Saludos,
Alex

Did UX and AM cooperate much? I know UX was/is tight with AR but unaware how their relationship is with AM.


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chepos wrote:

abrelosojos wrote:

I wonder what would happen now that UX is gone. They urgently need another partner unless AF/KL JV goes through. Thoughts?

Saludos,
Alex

Did UX and AM cooperate much? I know UX was/is tight with AR but unaware how their relationship is with AM.


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AM has codeshare agreement with UX for most of the spanish destinations. For sure, is big blow to AM conectivity in Spain and big win for IB

I'll believe it when I see it. I was unable to read the whole article (paywall) but the first paragraph basically referred to a statement by the governor of Jalisco, so for me this could just be wishful thinking. I also have to wonder why GDL and not MTY. MTY just seems to be a bit more prosperous. Or maybe there is a discussion going on and it involves GDL and MTY (like AM's GDL-MTY-JFK on E190s). Who knows. Let's see if anything comes out of this.

EddieDude wrote:

I'll believe it when I see it. I was unable to read the whole article (paywall) but the first paragraph basically referred to a statement by the governor of Jalisco, so for me this could just be wishful thinking. I also have to wonder why GDL and not MTY. MTY just seems to be a bit more prosperous. Or maybe there is a discussion going on and it involves GDL and MTY (like AM's GDL-MTY-JFK on E190s). Who knows. Let's see if anything comes out of this.

I have always thought that MTY has much better connectivity, as a result of its closeness to the USA. All 3 US airlines have frequent connecting flights via HOU, DFW and ATL. Even connections via JFK are possible.

On the other hand, many more Nuevo León residents have US visas, so a stop over in the US isn’t such a big thing.

GDL is a bigger city and arguably could get more passengers onto a new Europe bound flight

santi319 wrote:

whiskeyhotel wrote:

GSPSPOT wrote:

Not really on-topic but San Miguel de Allende is a UNESCO world heritage site and on my all-time bucket list.

BJX is the closest airport to San Miguel, by far, but still a couple hours by car from there to San Miguel. GDL to San Miguel is more than a 4-hour drive.

Having been to both San Miguel and Guanajuato, I would choose Guanajuato every time (also a UNESCO World Heritage Site, and far more scenic and interesting than San Miguel). San Miguel is Cancun in the mountains. Everyone speaks English (as most of the "locals" are actually expats), prices are inflated, and it is mostly a collection of art galleries and hipster-filled restaurants and bars catering to American tourists or retirees.

Guanajuato is 30 mins from BJX, set in a beautiful valley up in the mountains, has gorgeous architecture dating from when it was one of the richest mining towns on earth, and is predominantly a tourist destination for Mexican tourists (or parents visiting their kids at the major University there).

The closest airport to San Miguel is QRO.

Huge missed opportunity to not rename the airport Queretaro/San Miguel De Allende.

But yeah thats kinda long.

Heh. Should have known this, as we've been to QRO as well (great place, also prefer it to San Miguel). Our only visit to San Miguel was done as a side-trip from Guanajuato.

All sorts of great destinations in the Central Mexican Highlands. Next on our list is Morelia/Patzcuaro, and a stay at a coffee finca near Xico (Veracruz state).

EddieDude wrote:

I'll believe it when I see it. I was unable to read the whole article (paywall) but the first paragraph basically referred to a statement by the governor of Jalisco, so for me this could just be wishful thinking. I also have to wonder why GDL and not MTY. MTY just seems to be a bit more prosperous. Or maybe there is a discussion going on and it involves GDL and MTY (like AM's GDL-MTY-JFK on E190s). Who knows. Let's see if anything comes out of this.

With all former "Latin colonies" comes the history of "primate cities", a strange term used by geographers to describe a city that is not only the largest, but by sheer size comes to dominate the country economically, politically, socially, and culturally. Examples include Guatemala City, Guatemala, and San Salvador, El Salvador. This rule, of course, has exceptions: such as Ecuador, which has two co-dominant cities, Guayaquil and Quito, due to its geography. But in the case of Mexico, the "Valley of Mexico" (meaning the metropolitan area of Mexico City) has held the title of "Mexico's primate city" since before the arrival of the Spanish. Yet it never developed as a business capital.

Someone more authoritative than I will need to describe in better detail, but from what I have read, Monterrey has always been a well-connected city, dating back to its original founding, connecting ports to inland cities. Today there are many big businesses in the metropolitan area, both Mexican and foreign-owned. Yet there are no intercontinental flights.

The only explanation I can gather is that the "planet Jupiter" of Mexican air service - MEX - draws so much gravity from every other Mexican airport that premium demand for a non-stop simply cannot develop on its own Even with restrictions on take-off weight, MEX has a near-monopoly on intercontinental service, Despite the business ties and the relative wealth of both regions, both GDL and MTY haven't yet reached that threshold where a non-stop is justified. But both locations might be close!

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:

in the case of Mexico, the "Valley of Mexico" (meaning the metropolitan area of Mexico City) has held the title of "Mexico's primate city" since before the arrival of the Spanish. Yet it never developed as a business capital.

It is the business capital of the country as well... and by a substantial margin. Mexico City is where practically every single large bank has its HQs (even MTY-based Banorte has huge offices, IT facilities and other central operations based out of Mexico City). Mexico City is home to our two stock exchanges, and a very large percentage of the country's blue chips are located in Mexico City, not to mention most HQs of retailers, energy companies, the Mexico central offices of large multinationals, etc. Sure, Monterrey is also an industrial and corporate powerhouse, but it is definitely smaller than Mexico City in that regard.

whiskeyhotel wrote:

santi319 wrote:

whiskeyhotel wrote:

BJX is the closest airport to San Miguel, by far, but still a couple hours by car from there to San Miguel. GDL to San Miguel is more than a 4-hour drive.

Having been to both San Miguel and Guanajuato, I would choose Guanajuato every time (also a UNESCO World Heritage Site, and far more scenic and interesting than San Miguel). San Miguel is Cancun in the mountains. Everyone speaks English (as most of the "locals" are actually expats), prices are inflated, and it is mostly a collection of art galleries and hipster-filled restaurants and bars catering to American tourists or retirees.

Guanajuato is 30 mins from BJX, set in a beautiful valley up in the mountains, has gorgeous architecture dating from when it was one of the richest mining towns on earth, and is predominantly a tourist destination for Mexican tourists (or parents visiting their kids at the major University there).

The closest airport to San Miguel is QRO.

Huge missed opportunity to not rename the airport Queretaro/San Miguel De Allende.

But yeah thats kinda long.

Heh. Should have known this, as we've been to QRO as well (great place, also prefer it to San Miguel). Our only visit to San Miguel was done as a side-trip from Guanajuato.

All sorts of great destinations in the Central Mexican Highlands. Next on our list is Morelia/Patzcuaro, and a stay at a coffee finca near Xico (Veracruz state).

Central Mexico is a gem! Its underrated! Its safe and very cheap and so much to do, Real de Catorce, San luis Potosi, Leon, even Aguascalientes!! All should be visited at least once. Very safe too!

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:

The only explanation I can gather is that the "planet Jupiter" of Mexican air service - MEX - draws so much gravity from every other Mexican airport that premium demand for a non-stop simply cannot develop on its own Even with restrictions on take-off weight, MEX has a near-monopoly on intercontinental service, Despite the business ties and the relative wealth of both regions, both GDL and MTY haven't yet reached that threshold where a non-stop is justified. But both locations might be close!

Keep in mind that there are only 19 widebodies in the entire country. Even if the smaller airlines order and A321XLR, probably the only airport that may be in range of Madrid is Cancun.

MAD to
CUN 4,305 nm
MTY 4,704 nm
MEX 4,903 nm
GDL 5,043 nm

On the less colorful side, we could observe that GDL had about the same number of passengers as STL, and there is no intercontinental service from STL (there used to be).

STL international service
Air Canada Express: Toronto–Pearson
Frontier Airlines: Cancún, Seasonal: Punta Cana
Southwest Airlines: Seasonal: Montego Bay, Punta Cana

GDL international service
Aeroméxico Chicago–O'Hare, Fresno, Los Angeles, Sacramento, San Francisco
Aeroméxico Connect Salt Lake City
Alaska Airlines Los Angeles, San Jose (CA)
American Airlines Dallas/Fort Worth
American Eagle Phoenix-Sky Harbor
Copa Airlines Panama City
Delta Air Lines Atlanta
Interjet Chicago–O'Hare, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, San Antonio, San Francisco
United Airlines Houston–Intercontinental
United Express Houston–Intercontinental
VivaAerobus Los Angeles Seasonal: Chicago–O'Hare (begins December 7, 2019), Houston–Intercontinental, Charter: Havana
Volaris Charlotte, Chicago–Midway, Chicago–O'Hare, Dallas/Fort Worth, Denver, Fresno, Houston–Intercontinental, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Miami, Milwaukee (ends November 13, 2019),New York–JFK, Oakland, Ontario, Orlando, Phoenix–Sky Harbor, Portland (OR), Reno/Tahoe, Sacramento, San Antonio, San Jose (CA), San Salvador, Seattle/Tacoma, Seasonal: San Francisco