Some might remember things are changing in Macau where Air Macau will lose its exclusive rights at the end of 2020 when others will be allowed to form airlines in the city.
As a result Air Macau seeks to renew itself including looking at other opportunities like long haul.


Air Macau is studying the feasibility of introducing Airbus A330 or A350 widebodies into its fleet The widebodies would be used for network development and the launch of long-haul routes to Europe or the United States.

The carrier acknowledged that such routes require large passenger volumes to be feasible, and any decision would be made in a careful manner. Within the Greater Bay Area, the Macau region has less traffic than Hong Kong and Guangdong, the airline said, but its casinos make it a popular destination. Macau International Airport saw a 17% year-over-year increase in passenger numbers in the third quarter, and a 19% improvement in aircraft movements.

Air Macau considers adding Airbus widebodies to fleet
https://atwonline.com/airlines/air-maca ... dies-fleet

I suppose it's a solid alternative to Hong Kong...

Where would they fly? LHR, CDG, SFO, LAX?

Someone's gotta be seeing the crisis HKG is in, foolishly thinking it's going to last forever, and got this crazy idea in their head.

Unless these things are hugely subsidized, it's tough to envision intercon flights from MFM having a chance at profitability.

Ishrion wrote:

I suppose it's a solid alternative to Hong Kong...

You're joking, right?

Has Macau had any European wide body service since TP flew LIS-BRU-MFM years ago? Given Macau is a popular destination for a large demographic I could see it working, at least to the US.

MFM-LAS considering it's the "Las Vegas of the East"?

Probably not...

LAX772LR wrote:

Someone's gotta be seeing the crisis HKG is in, foolishly thinking it's going to last forever, and got this crazy idea in their head.

Unless these things are hugely subsidized, it's tough to envision intercon flights from MFM having a chance at profitability.

Ishrion wrote:

I suppose it's a solid alternative to Hong Kong...

You're joking, right?

I'm looking at it out my window now, and ask myself every day; how can this get resolved? It's a nuisance to be sure but I think it will always be here with the core 500 or so, and the big protests like today after the kid passed away this morning. I doubt this gets resolved in Hong Kong anytime soon.

The problem that Air Macau would have is that they don't fly much to southeast Asia. They fly a lot to Japan, Korea, NE Asia, but I don't think anyone needs to dip down to Macau to fly back up. I doubt there is enough traffic to make the flight fullish. I think TAP even had a longhaul to Lisbon a few days a week for a bit. Traffic is not there. Stop.

Naive question: Would the casinos have any interest in supporting such service?

1. Politically, Macau airport is also something that can be seen as an alternative to Hong Kong airport
2. Air Macau is owned by Air China by majority
3. The Macau airport also provide international service for the city of Zhuhai in mainland China, given that the Zhuhai airport currently only offer domestic service. The Zhuhai airport have about 10 Million annual passenger count.

Americans arent going to fly to a place that most of them haven't heard of just to gamble when they can to to Vegas for cheap.

And the only Americans that visit Hong Kong are business people or tourists that have enough money to not stay in a hostel. Granted I'm an american that was there last week, I visited because i work for an airline and stayed in a hostel.

Given how things work in Macao, the millions they will loose on such a venture would probably be a money laundering front.

c933103 wrote:

3. The Macau airport also provide international service for the city of Zhuhai in mainland China, given that the Zhuhai airport currently only offer domestic service. The Zhuhai airport have about 10 Million annual passenger count.

This could definitely be a factor. Macau Airport is also much closer to the city center of Zhuhai than Zhuhai Airport is.

Air Macau filed applications with the USDOT back in 2005 - dockets https://www.regulations.gov/docket?D=DOT-OST-2005-22057 and https://www.regulations.gov/docket?D=DOT-OST-2005-22058. Never granted but technically still pending.

Maybe a flight to Australia again, which was last flown by Viva Macau, but I think Jetstar were rumored to be looking at that option.

Europe and the US seem like fantasy land stuff though for the most part, particularly the latter. Maybe a European city a few days a week but there isn’t that much in the way of opportunity to be had.

I don't know much about Macau but how popular is Macau as being the Las Vegas of Asia? Is it really comparable to Las Vegas? Can it be an alternative to Las Vegas for Asians, Australians, Europeans etc?

A388

This would be a totally stupid thing for them to do. May as well take the $$$ it would cost to develop this and set fire to it out on the MFM runway. I can't imagine enough traffic from the U.S. to profitably make even a ONCE-weekly flight work. When you think of the average lack of geography knowledge of my fellow Americans, which is just sad, I doubt 2 out of 10 people have even ever heard of Macau, much less find it on a map. And as previously pointed out, very valid...Americans can fly to Vegas pretty cheap from almost anywhere in the country...plus there's ACY as well, so why fly all the way to MFM? Can't imagine sufficient traffic from anywhere in Europe either. TP tried it and it failed.

NotDengXiaoping wrote:

Has Macau had any European wide body service since TP flew LIS-BRU-MFM years ago? Given Macau is a popular destination for a large demographic I could see it working, at least to the US.

Was the BRU stop a requirement for the aircraft to make it from LIS-MFM? Just seems like an interesting place to stop between Portugal and Macau.

Why are they not looking at the Boeing 787? That seems like it would be a much better fit for long thin routes than either the A330 or A350.

TWA772LR wrote:

Americans arent going to fly to a place that most of them haven't heard of just to gamble when they can to to Vegas for cheap.

And the only Americans that visit Hong Kong are business people or tourists that have enough money to not stay in a hostel. Granted I'm an american that was there last week, I visited because i work for an airline and stayed in a hostel.

How many Americans/Europeans/Asians flew to DBX twenty years ago? Americans are not that far behind other nationalities in exploring new world destinations, if the hoopla is sufficient. Anything is possible with enough capital and excitement about the new place. MFM-LHR, MFM-AMS, MFM-LAX? Why not?

Hong Kong airport is just a short boat ride away and it's possible to get to Macau without even going through HK immigration. I can understand that people from China and Southeast Asia may want to go to Macau just to gamble, but I don't think anyone would fly halfway across the world to Macau and not also visit Hong Kong. I doubt it's feasible - they'd be competing with Hong Kong, Shenzhen and Guangzhou.

spinotter wrote:

TWA772LR wrote:

Americans arent going to fly to a place that most of them haven't heard of just to gamble when they can to to Vegas for cheap.

And the only Americans that visit Hong Kong are business people or tourists that have enough money to not stay in a hostel. Granted I'm an american that was there last week, I visited because i work for an airline and stayed in a hostel.

How many Americans/Europeans/Asians flew to DBX twenty years ago? Americans are not that far behind other nationalities in exploring new world destinations, if the hoopla is sufficient. Anything is possible with enough capital and excitement about the new place. MFM-LHR, MFM-AMS, MFM-LAX? Why not?

Because it's mad.

The Greater Bay Area is increasingly integrating.

Macau is no worse than using HKG, SZX, ZUH, CAN depending on what you are doing and going in the region.

The Greater Bay Area population is more than the UK and double that of Canada and one of the worlds most densest economic engines.

Long run, I very much see longhaul services at MFM the same manner they are increasing in SZX these days. There is no reason airlines and customers cannot utilize all the regions airports for such links.

chrisp390 wrote:

Why are they not looking at the Boeing 787? That seems like it would be a much better fit for long thin routes than either the A330 or A350.

Yeah? Why?

peterinlisbon wrote:

Hong Kong airport is just a short boat ride away and it's possible to get to Macau without even going through HK immigration. I can understand that people from China and Southeast Asia may want to go to Macau just to gamble, but I don't think anyone would fly halfway across the world to Macau and not also visit Hong Kong. I doubt it's feasible - they'd be competing with Hong Kong, Shenzhen and Guangzhou.

It'll be even quicker once the link between the airport and the bridge facility is complete, all within secure area (Much like the current Skypier in HKG).

ShanghaiNoon wrote:

This could definitely be a factor. Macau Airport is also much closer to the city center of Zhuhai than Zhuhai Airport is.

Except Zhuhai (Actually the western side of the PRD/Greater Bay Area/whatever CCP wants to call it) is nowhere as developed as the Eastern side (i.e. the HK-Shenzhen-Dongguan-Guangzhou corridor). If there's an airport that can definitely grow a lot more, it'll be SZX, not MFM.

hz747300 wrote:

I'm looking at it out my window now, and ask myself every day; how can this get resolved? It's a nuisance to be sure but I think it will always be here with the core 500 or so, and the big protests like today after the kid passed away this morning. I doubt this gets resolved in Hong Kong anytime soon.

While the protests may last for awhile, by the time Air Macau gets really serious into flying long-haul, it'll be a few years.

And quite frankly, if HK is still a mess in a few years, there are WAY more to worried about than MFM and their so-call ambition.

cathay747 wrote:

This would be a totally stupid thing for them to do. May as well take the $$$ it would cost to develop this and set fire to it out on the MFM runway. I can't imagine enough traffic from the U.S. to profitably make even a ONCE-weekly flight work. When you think of the average lack of geography knowledge of my fellow Americans, which is just sad, I doubt 2 out of 10 people have even ever heard of Macau, much less find it on a map. And as previously pointed out, very valid...Americans can fly to Vegas pretty cheap from almost anywhere in the country...plus there's ACY as well, so why fly all the way to MFM? Can't imagine sufficient traffic from anywhere in Europe either. TP tried it and it failed.

Most don't even know where HK is .

spinotter wrote:

How many Americans/Europeans/Asians flew to DBX twenty years ago? Americans are not that far behind other nationalities in exploring new world destinations, if the hoopla is sufficient. Anything is possible with enough capital and excitement about the new place. MFM-LHR, MFM-AMS, MFM-LAX? Why not?

And while you have Emirates that are profitable, tell me how EY or QR are doing? Also, Dubai is a large financial center for the Gulf region, while Macau is nothing but a tourist destination with a bunch of casinos and otherwise, a money laundering center for Chinese or North Korean. Nearby Zhuhai has absolutely nothing that can attract people from places like Europe or N. America (Hack...even Shenzhen is more interesting).

I think they might have better chance to make a profit by bringing those money to a casino and play cards

The one and only reason I can come up with this plan is perhaps fly the route when its parent Air China doesn't have enough bilateral rights to increase destinations/frequencies?

Not very realistic IMO
MFM should focus on attracting and sustaining service from other Asian airlines. That way they can guarantee a steady flow of inbound traffic without losing money flying prestige routes such as MFM-LIS or MFM-PVD.
Maybe Qatar Airways can come in with a 787 from DOH at some point.

directorguy wrote:

Not very realistic IMO
MFM should focus on attracting and sustaining service from other Asian airlines. That way they can guarantee a steady flow of inbound traffic without losing money flying prestige routes such as MFM-LIS or MFM-PVD.
Maybe Qatar Airways can come in with a 787 from DOH at some point.

MFM-PVD? Now that borders on the insane - true, a Portuguese color in both places, but who would go from one to the other?

This seems like a terrible idea. Even with gambling, Macau simply doesn't have the demand to sustain widebody service with hkg so convenient. you are basically an hour and half away with the ferry services from hkg.

peterinlisbon wrote:

Hong Kong airport is just a short boat ride away and it's possible to get to Macau without even going through HK immigration. I can understand that people from China and Southeast Asia may want to go to Macau just to gamble, but I don't think anyone would fly halfway across the world to Macau and not also visit Hong Kong. I doubt it's feasible - they'd be competing with Hong Kong, Shenzhen and Guangzhou.

There's a brand new bridge. No more boat trips needed

Having been to Macau (as a side trip from Hong Kong) , I don’t see a lot of traffic from the west. I don’t remember seeing hardly any westerners while I was there in 2015.

Unless the demo of who visits Macau is changing, I don’t see a whole lot of demand to Macau. From Macau to the west may be a different story.

When I was in Macau a couple of years ago, I did not see one westerner the entire day I was there.

Honestly, how many Americans would even know what Macau is?

I can see this:

LAX/SFO-MFM-MNL/SGN/BKK with free stopover in Macau. I can see that being popular.

[photoid][/photoid]

SierraPacific wrote:

When I was in Macau a couple of years ago, I did not see one westerner the entire day I was there.

Honestly, how many Americans would even know what Macau is?

To not see any westerner there you must have walked around with your eyes and ears shut. True, there are not many there, in the Vegas like gambling area (Cotai) I don't remember seeing any (who would fly from Europe, Australia or North America to gamble in Asia, unless someone looking for something exotic?) but in the city centre I did see a few, mostly Portuguese speaking, westerners, coming out if their jobs in the end of the day, plus a Portuguese school, etc. And Australians.

Having said this, I agree with those noting how fast and easy it is to connect to/from HKG with the SkyPier, so I guess long haul flights to MFM are more likely to begin with Qatar or Turkish one day. Yet Air Macau key feel the need to react to new players at their home airport, like Air Asia, who has voiced the intention to build a hub there, as of 2020.

AirCbp wrote:

[photoid][/photoid]

SierraPacific wrote:

When I was in Macau a couple of years ago, I did not see one westerner the entire day I was there.

Honestly, how many Americans would even know what Macau is?

To not see any westerner there you must have walked around with your eyes and ears shut. True, there are not many there, in the Vegas like gambling area (Cotai) I don't remember seeing any (who would fly from Europe, Australia or North America to gamble in Asia, unless someone looking for something exotic?) but in the city centre I did see a few, mostly Portuguese speaking, westerners, coming out if their jobs in the end of the day, plus a Portuguese school, etc. And Australians.

Having said this, I agree with those noting how fast and easy it is to connect to/from HKG with the SkyPier, so I guess long haul flights to MFM are more likely to begin with Qatar or Turkish one day. Yet Air Macau key feel the need to react to new players at their home airport, like Air Asia, who has voiced the intention to build a hub there, as of 2020.

I was only in Cotai rather than the older part of Macau so I saw practically zero westerners there in my experience.

I really enjoyed my time there but I do not see a market for long haul flights on any carrier.

drdisque wrote:

I can see this:

LAX/SFO-MFM-MNL/SGN/BKK with free stopover in Macau. I can see that being popular.

Was just thinking the same. Great connection point to BKK and the southeast Asia markets that don’t allow gambling. I know the Thais are counting on more Chinese tourists, so this could be an interesting approach for it.

It could work as a stopover to India/South East Asia from the US or as a cheaper alternative into HKG/pearl river delta

drdisque wrote:

I can see this:

LAX/SFO-MFM-MNL/SGN/BKK with free stopover in Macau. I can see that being popular.

As if those traffic are not low yielding enough as-is

Being popular and making money is two things. Sell some TPAC roundtrip at USD400, I would use MFM to hop into HK also, but Air Macau will surely lose billions.

Also keep in mind that unlike ME3, Macau doesn’t have cheap fuel nor cheap labor. Nor they can be CN3 (although CA is a majority owner of NX) which have a regulated domestic market where they can make tons of money to offset their loss on international routes.

Dragonlionting wrote:

It could work as a stopover to India/South East Asia from the US or as a cheaper alternative into HKG/pearl river delta

There already are cheap flights going for usa-mainlandChina-asia

How much $ is Air Macau willing to lose/put up with?

A388 wrote:

I don't know much about Macau but how popular is Macau as being the Las Vegas of Asia? Is it really comparable to Las Vegas? Can it be an alternative to Las Vegas for Asians, Australians, Europeans etc?

In terms of raw mathematical gaming, and shopping for ridiculously-overpriced namebrand anything? ....yes. Even more so, in some regards.

Entertainment? Alcohol? Social setting? ....nothing like it.

zakuivcustom wrote:

drdisque wrote:

I can see this:
LAX/SFO-MFM-MNL/SGN/BKK with free stopover in Macau. I can see that being popular.

As if those traffic are not low yielding enough as-is

At a time when Cathay is so desperate that they're offering $393 all-in roundtrip fares from LAX with almost no lead time, despite Hong Kong Airlines pulling out of the market.... to attempt USA-MFM is financial suicide.

LAX772LR wrote:

A388 wrote:

I don't know much about Macau but how popular is Macau as being the Las Vegas of Asia? Is it really comparable to Las Vegas? Can it be an alternative to Las Vegas for Asians, Australians, Europeans etc?

In terms of raw mathematical gaming, and shopping for ridiculously-overpriced namebrand anything? ....yes. Even more so, in some regards.

Entertainment? Alcohol? Social setting? ....nothing like it.

zakuivcustom wrote:

drdisque wrote:

I can see this:
LAX/SFO-MFM-MNL/SGN/BKK with free stopover in Macau. I can see that being popular.

As if those traffic are not low yielding enough as-is

At a time when Cathay is so desperate that they're offering $393 all-in roundtrip fares from LAX with almost no lead time, despite Hong Kong Airlines pulling out of the market.... to attempt USA-MFM is financial suicide.

Had similar thoughts there.

Macau is no Vegas in its reputation for entertainment, not just gambling. Macau has a huge market on its doorstep and with quite restrictive gambling laws in that market, which is why it is so big.

Current environment for flights into HKG isn’t great, but that may well be overcome quickly if confidence returns in the city.

None of the ME3 have shown any interest in MFM, if there was any sort of consistent demand between MFM-EU then we would have seen a QR/EY/EK/TK service a couple of times a week by now.

They could try offering cheap connections onto BKK, DAD & HAN, but their current destination portfolio doesn't make much logical sense for connections. A significant backtrack from Europe and USA is required for almost all destinations.

That said I would love to see a NX 330/350 in LON.

Good point that none of the ME3 have given it a look, and for them the opportunity cost is much lower cos for them it’s only an 8h flight instead of 13h.

Has anyone ever been to Macao? Is it a nice place to visit? It seems to have zero reputation either way. Given the mobility of today, if it had much going for it people would have “discovered” it by now.

How bad was it for TAP by the way? I heard, brutal. But would love to know details. Would love to be one of eight pax on a Tristar 500.

LAX772LR wrote:

Unless these things are hugely subsidized, it's tough to envision intercon flights from MFM having a chance at profitability.

Right now Air Macau gets 80% of its passengers from KHH (433 miles) and TPE (525 miles) on Taiwan. They are going to lose exclusive rights to fly to these destinations in one year. Presumably, the competition is going to be brutal, so the natural response is to look at destinations that they don't have competition like LAX (7,282 miles), HNL (5,592 miles) and LHR (5,992 miles)

Although these routes would seem to require an expensive widebody instead of a relatively inexpensive A330-300. However, there is an A330-300 being operated on the SZX-LHR (5,972 miles) by Shenzhen Airlines that just began service a few years ago. The SZX-LHR route is the longest in the world currently being flown by an Airbus A330-300.

The distance from Macau to SZX is 36 miles.

Airbus states that they still have 20 unfilled orders for A330-300s (many to Hong Kong Airlines) and 21 unfilled orders for A330-200s. So they may be available at a substantial discount from their list price A330-200 ($238.5 million) A330-300 ($264.2 million).

So upgrading the airline to fly to London and Honolulu might not involve a lot of capital, and the rate of return will probably be much higher than trying to introduce a route to mainland USA.

bhxalex wrote:

None of the ME3 have shown any interest in MFM, if there was any sort of consistent demand between MFM-EU then we would have seen a QR/EY/EK/TK service a couple of times a week by now.

They could try offering cheap connections onto BKK, DAD & HAN, but their current destination portfolio doesn't make much logical sense for connections. A significant backtrack from Europe and USA is required for almost all destinations.

That said I would love to see a NX 330/350 in LON.

Middle East airlines can simply sell tickets to Hong Kong and then connect people to Macau through the ferry, or let people self connect on buses through the new bridge now that it have been opened but the direct link from Hong Kong airport to the bridge to Macau still haven't been built yet.
As for cheap connection to BKK/DAD/HAN/etc.. If they started such route and be somewhat successful then I can only imagine local LCC in those countries would jump in and compete against them at even lower fare...

There is such a huge interest in Las Vegas by Hawaiian residents (2762 miles) that you wonder if some would fly to MFM (5,592 miles) for a change of pace. Hawaiian Airlines does not fly further than 5,095 miles (to Boston).

drdisque wrote:

I can see this:

LAX/SFO-MFM-MNL/SGN/BKK with free stopover in Macau. I can see that being popular.

That's true but the competition is intense. They can't live on transfer traffic alone and there are already direct flights to most of these other places. Unlike Las Vegas, I don't think that people from outside of the region see Macau as anything other than an interesting daytrip from Hong Kong, if they know it exists at all. Let them study it, but I'm skeptical.

spinotter wrote:

directorguy wrote:

Not very realistic IMO
MFM should focus on attracting and sustaining service from other Asian airlines. That way they can guarantee a steady flow of inbound traffic without losing money flying prestige routes such as MFM-LIS or MFM-PVD.
Maybe Qatar Airways can come in with a 787 from DOH at some point.

MFM-PVD? Now that borders on the insane - true, a Portuguese color in both places, but who would go from one to the other?

Now wouldn't that be something. MFM-PVD would be only slightly more far-fetched than MFM-LAX.